Make a better AFK system

[Ryim_Drykeon]

Yesterday, I got no rewards for a Defense due to "Inactivity".

I really don't care about the rewards, as I was simply helping a friend, but the reason for my "Inactivity" was that I didn't need to move. It was a Defense Mission and I was playing Octavia. So the really really really LAZY PROGRAMMING of the AFK system tagged me as "Inactive" since I didn't move the required steps in the required time (whatever that is). So this brings up two points:

1) Players are far more skilled at playing the game than Devs. This is not a slam, just a fact. So I'm guessing that they don't understand that movement is not needed at times, and can actually take you out of a prime tactical position. In this case, it wasn't needed. Not just from Octavia, since I can take about any frame into a Defense, stand on the target and obliterate everything without moving for many waves.

2) AFKers (the ones DE is trying to stop with this system) already have macros and other systems of their own to get around this system. It's not hard as the system is very poorly designed.

So the only players DE is actually effecting with their AFK system are actual players, not AFKers. And yes, FanBoys, I can always move a few steps to avoid this. Not the point. The point is the system is ineffectual to the point of harassing valid players. It doesn't help. It only causes harm to the game, and someone in charge at DE needs to walk down the hall and have a chat with those responsible for the AFK system, it's implementation, and it's workings.

[Infirito]

+1 here, I'm farming Xini with max efficiency Banshee and I have to cancel my 4th every 2 min and run around risking Energy Leeches, Toxic aura dudes and other undesirables for no real reason. If you design missions for players to sit in one place for 5-10-50 minutes, don't punish those who does that.

[Zakor11]

AFAIK all you have to do is jump one time in 2-3 minutes... Doing that consistently and never had problems with the afk-check. And jumping once in 2 mins is doable +

vor 22 Minuten schrieb Ryim_Drykeon:

can actually take you out of a prime tactical position

jumping won't take you out of any position. I have to admit it is a simple system, but not really a problem.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Fair enough. How do you propose they do it in a way it won't be more unfair than the current system? 

26 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

So the really really really LAZY PROGRAMMING of the AFK system

And pray tell, why call them lazy when you can't be bothered to move 5 steps over the course of 5 waves on a fast paced game? Why blast in frustration for something you also are guilty of doing? The rules are there, clear as day. And it costs no effort to avoid them and their consequences.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

Just now, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Fair enough. How do you propose they do it in a way it won't be more unfair than the current system? 

And pray tell, why call them lazy when you can't be bothered to move 5 steps over the course of 5 waves on a fast paced game? Why blast in frustration for something you also are guilty of doing? The rules are there, clear as day. And it costs no effort to avoid them and their consequences.

Firstly, I'd remove the current system from Defense Missions. All others require movement, but Defense Missions are stationary by design. A good redesign start would be to change the activity monitor to look at Abilities Used as well as Kills. If either of these increase, then the player is "Active". I use the quotes on that, as AFKers will still use macros to avoid it.

I call them lazy because they have implemented the system, heard the complaints (and there are many if you search for them) and then have done nothing about it.

I did not "move 5 steps over the course of 5 waves on a fast paced game" because the game is not "fast paced" enough to require it. I was far from lazy, in that I was killing nearly all the enemies, and keeping my squad buffed. Defense doesn't require movement. If you need to move, fine, but some are good enough at the game to not need to.

As for the "clear as day" rules: Please point out where new players can see these "rules"? Don't bother pointing to the Patch Notes as no new players is going to read all of those. Yes, I knew of the AFK system. Since I don't actively AFK, and just play the game, it penalized me for not abiding by a set of rules that have no correlation on game play.

As I said, I don't really care about the reward, and yes, this is the first time in nearly 2000 hours of game play that it has effected me. That it did effect someone that was not AFK is the crux, and defending a system that only penalizes those NOT violating the system is inexcusable.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

2 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Firstly, I'd remove the current system from Defense Missions. All others require movement, but Defense Missions are stationary by design. A good redesign start would be to change the activity monitor to look at Abilities Used as well as Kills. If either of these increase, then the player is "Active". I use the quotes on that, as AFKers will still use macros to avoid it.

I wouldn't be against that.

3 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

As for the "clear as day" rules: Please point out where new players can see these "rules"?

If you reach the end of a mission, got all requirements but have no rewards it's most likely due to the afk trigger. The first time it's ok, but after that it's on us. No matter how imperfect the system is. As it is for most other rules of the game, specially chat suspensions.

6 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

those NOT violating the system is inexcusable.

I can't say it the afk trigger behaves like that for Octavia. But it does exist due to frames like Ash, Saryn, Mesa, Excal, Banshee, etc. Frames that at one point or another where merely a "press 4 to win" that allowed players to wipe an entire map without moving a step. It's an outdated rule, but it still has some logic to it, even if it should be improved nowadays and other players suffer from it. 

And this last statement could be said for anything in the game or in life. Sometimes we all pay for the mis-deeds of others, unfortunately, because the few with self-control are as forbidden to take certain actions or visit certain places because other few can't control themselves and ruin stuff for everybody. We can only hope it gets changed soon to a better model in this case.

[peterc3]

9 hours ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

So the only players DE is actually effecting with their AFK system are actual players, not AFKers

People who want to sit in Sound Quake for an hour without actually interacting with the game are not actually playing the game.

9 hours ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

The point is the system is ineffectual to the point of harassing valid players.

You are making the assumption DE considers this a valid way to play the game, despite changes to other frame abilities and the existence of the current AFK system.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

2 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

People who want to sit in Sound Quake for an hour without actually interacting with the game are not actually playing the game.

You are making the assumption DE considers this a valid way to play the game, despite changes to other frame abilities and the existence of the current AFK system.

Read and understand my post. I'm not talking about those that just sit and AFK, but MOVING is not required in a Defense mission. Doing things is, but Moving isn't one of those things.

How hard is THAT to understand?

With a RIFLE I can stand in one place and do their Defense missions. They are that simple a tactical situation. That people think they need to bounce around like rubber balls to do them is just showing they lack skill.

[peterc3]

8 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Read and understand my post. I'm not talking about those that just sit and AFK, but MOVING is not required in a Defense mission. Doing things is, but Moving isn't one of those things.

How hard is THAT to understand?

With a RIFLE I can stand in one place and do their Defense missions. They are that simple a tactical situation. That people think they need to bounce around like rubber balls to do them is just showing they lack skill.

Sitting in Sound Quake is just as bad to the game and its design as people who just completely AFK and do nothing.

How hard is THAT to understand?

[Ryim_Drykeon]

Just now, peterc3 said:

Sitting in Sound Quake is just as bad to the game and its design as people who just completely AFK and do nothing.

How hard is THAT to understand?

And I never said ANYthing about Sound Quake. Try reading comprehension.

[peterc3]

2 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

And I never said ANYthing about Sound Quake. Try reading comprehension.

Sound Quake/Resonator/whatever are the same type of game play, and all of them have the same restrictions as every other frame and player. Just sitting in one spot and using those abilities are not considered actively playing the game, in and of themselves. It's even less excusable on Octavia since you can actually shoot things while everything else is going on.

The AFK system works, and for all intents and purposes you were AFK.

[Urlan]

20 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

People who want to sit in Sound Quake for an hour without actually interacting with the game are not actually playing the game.

You are making the assumption DE considers this a valid way to play the game, despite changes to other frame abilities and the existence of the current AFK system.

One would assume then, that such abilities would be removed or changed to be more dynamic instead of forcing a player to stand still to make the most of them. It is important to consider that players - the ones trying to use the warframes' powers - didn't make the versions in game. If the usage of the power is capable of making the player considered afk, maybe there should be a devworkshop about making a version of the power that does not; perhaps taking the augment version and making it default?

[xMarvin732]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Ryim_Drykeon:

1) Players are far more skilled at playing the game than Devs. This is not a slam, just a fact. So I'm guessing that they don't understand that movement is not needed at times, and can actually take you out of a prime tactical position. In this case, it wasn't needed. Not just from Octavia, since I can take about any frame into a Defense, stand on the target and obliterate everything without moving for many waves.

All i see is Dev bashing coming from you because you cant be bothered to press one or two buttons to walk a little bit and blame it on DE for having such a trashy AFK system, i agree the AFK system kind of sucks but the way you described your problem made you look lazy and toxic and well deserved to be punished.

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Ryim_Drykeon:

Read and understand my post. I'm not talking about those that just sit and AFK, but MOVING is not required in a Defense mission. Doing things is, but Moving isn't one of those things.

How should the game know you are not AFK aswell when you press abilities and buttons and just stand around in one place?
You couldve been a good aimbot aswell then or basically a Specter which has strong weapons and mods and consciousness.

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Ryim_Drykeon:

And nobody asked you for your opinion. Go back to General.

Also, very weak of you saying this meanwhile you wrote something in Feedback and try to stop someone to post their feedback under your post.

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Ryim_Drykeon:

I did not "move 5 steps over the course of 5 waves on a fast paced game" because the game is not "fast paced" enough to require it. I was far from lazy, in that I was killing nearly all the enemies, and keeping my squad buffed. Defense doesn't require movement. If you need to move, fine, but some are good enough at the game to not need to.

You did not just seriously said this right now did you?
Stop searching for excuses for your mistake.

How about reading this instead of making a Feedback post and not responding to Answers:

vor 8 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Hikuro-93:

I can't say it the afk trigger behaves like that for Octavia. But it does exist due to frames like Ash, Saryn, Mesa, Excal, Banshee, etc. Frames that at one point or another where merely a "press 4 to win" that allowed players to wipe an entire map without moving a step. It's an outdated rule, but it still has some logic to it, even if it should be improved nowadays and other players suffer from it. 

 

[Ryim_Drykeon]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

Sound Quake/Resonator/whatever are the same type of game play, and all of them have the same restrictions as every other frame and player. Just sitting in one spot and using those abilities are not considered actively playing the game, in and of themselves. It's even less excusable on Octavia since you can actually shoot things while everything else is going on.

The AFK system works, and for all intents and purposes you were AFK.

So just shooting things with a rifle and not using abilities falls into AFK because the missions can't push me to a level to need to move? As I have said, I don't need to use abilities. If you'd bother to read instead of just trolling, you'd see that.

If DE doesn't want you to stay in one spot, don't have a Defense target stay in one spot.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

2 minutes ago, xMarvin732 said:

All i see is Dev bashing coming from you because you cant be bothered to press one or two buttons to walk a little bit and blame it on DE for having such a trashy AFK system, i agree the AFK system kind of sucks but the way you described your problem made you look lazy and toxic and well deserved to be punished.

How should the game know you are not AFK aswell when you press abilities and buttons and just stand around in one place?
You couldve been a good aimbot aswell then or basically a Specter which has strong weapons and mods and consciousness.

Also, very weak of you saying this meanwhile you wrote something in Feedback and try to stop someone to post their feedback under your post.

You did not just seriously said this right now did you?
Stop searching for excuses for your mistake.

How about reading this instead of making a Feedback post and not responding to Answers:

Since this has only hit me once in 2000 hours, I'd say I'm far from lazy. As for the "punishment", I've already said I could care less about not getting the reward. The issue is the system needs attention.

I've given some idea about changing the system. For every mission BUT Defense, the Movement works. For Defense, it needs changed to something else.

The post I responded to wasn't "Feedback". Read it and tell me otherwise.

Never tried to "excuse" my "mistake". I posted to try to improve a flawed system.

I did read it. Valid points, but still no excuse for not fixing the system, or at least improving on it.

[peterc3]

17 minutes ago, Urlan said:

One would assume then, that such abilities would be removed or changed to be more dynamic instead of forcing a player to stand still to make the most of them. It is important to consider that players - the ones trying to use the warframes' powers - didn't make the versions in game. If the usage of the power is capable of making the player considered afk, maybe there should be a devworkshop about making a version of the power that does not; perhaps taking the augment version and making it default?

When DE gets around to doing that, then they will. However they do not have the ability to simultaneously do that for every frame that is affected at once, so they leave it up to the existing limits on gameplay in the meantime.

[Urlan]

52 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

When DE gets around to doing that, then they will. However they do not have the ability to simultaneously do that for every frame that is affected at once, so they leave it up to the existing limits on gameplay in the meantime.

Which in the meantime, suggests this is the gameplay intended for that warframe. I am sure that will change as Ember has several times, when convenient.

[Spectre-8]

On 2019-06-02 at 3:47 PM, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Yesterday, I got no rewards for a Defense due to "Inactivity".

I really don't care about the rewards, as I was simply helping a friend, but the reason for my "Inactivity" was that I didn't need to move. It was a Defense Mission and I was playing Octavia. So the really really really LAZY PROGRAMMING of the AFK system tagged me as "Inactive" since I didn't move the required steps in the required time (whatever that is). So this brings up two points:

1) Players are far more skilled at playing the game than Devs. This is not a slam, just a fact. So I'm guessing that they don't understand that movement is not needed at times, and can actually take you out of a prime tactical position. In this case, it wasn't needed. Not just from Octavia, since I can take about any frame into a Defense, stand on the target and obliterate everything without moving for many waves.

2) AFKers (the ones DE is trying to stop with this system) already have macros and other systems of their own to get around this system. It's not hard as the system is very poorly designed.

So the only players DE is actually effecting with their AFK system are actual players, not AFKers. And yes, FanBoys, I can always move a few steps to avoid this. Not the point. The point is the system is ineffectual to the point of harassing valid players. It doesn't help. It only causes harm to the game, and someone in charge at DE needs to walk down the hall and have a chat with those responsible for the AFK system, it's implementation, and it's workings.

The current system is fine if you don't move you're not actually playing you're watching a movie and for this we already have GW2 .

 

[KIREEK]

From my understanding and experience, the closer you are to efficiency (killing alot, gathering more resources, doing side objectives) the more active a player is.

On the other hand the closer you are to idling and afk behavior, the closer you are to quiting the game, possibly for good.

I sugest a drastic change in your gameplay, because you weren't moving slowly, you simply used abilities and remainined in a idle position, while it's true you're not as close to quiting as an afk player is (i do note that a warn for afk gameplay usually makes players quit altogether), you are certainly relatively close to it.

If you want to enjoy warframe, you better find some motivation, you're asking for changes that in my point of view will have no impact and your gameplay will only become more and more static until you simply step into afk behavior, once you reach that stage, quiting is pretty much inevitable, either by your own decision, or by having support making that decision for you.

I'm not saying you are breaking the rules, i'm just saying that i have seen this sort of attitude many times and the end is always the same. DE may make changes, but will you be around to see them?

Edited June 5, 2019 by KIREEK

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

On 2019-06-02 at 8:47 AM, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Yesterday, I got no rewards for a Defense due to "Inactivity".

Hmm.

Perhaps DE should nerf abilities that allow players to afk?

[Ryim_Drykeon]

5 hours ago, Spectre-8 said:

The current system is fine if you don't move you're not actually playing you're watching a movie and for this we already have GW2 .

 

 

4 hours ago, KIREEK said:

From my understanding and experience, the closer you are to efficiency (killing alot, gathering more resources, doing side objectives) the more active a player is.

On the other hand the closer you are to idling and afk behavior, the closer you are to quiting the game, possibly for good.

I sugest a drastic change in your gameplay, because you weren't moving slowly, you simply used abilities and remainined in a idle position, while it's true you're not as close to quiting as an afk player is (i do note that a warn for afk gameplay usually makes players quit altogether), you are certainly relatively close to it.

If you want to enjoy warframe, you better find some motivation, you're asking for changes that in my point of view will have no impact and your gameplay will only become more and more static until you simply step into afk behavior, once you reach that stage, quiting is pretty much inevitable, either by your own decision, or by having support making that decision for you.

I'm not saying you are breaking the rules, i'm just saying that i have seen this sort of attitude many times and the end is always the same. DE may make changes, but will you be around to see them?

 

14 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Hmm.

Perhaps DE should nerf abilities that allow players to afk?

Since you three decided to necro a thread that had moved down several pages, let me point out that my average mission time is less than 5 minutes. With my personal best at 47 seconds (For a Capture Mission). I detest the static tactics involved in Defense and even in Survival. The case I brought to light occurred because I was helping a friend through the Star Chart through these boring missions.

So I'm far from static nor doing AFK behavior.

I pointed out the flaw in the AFK system for Defense so DE can look at it (or not, as they choose). I truly don't care if they do correct it as I will rarely be in Defense Missions due to them being too slow, and far too easy.

As for nerfing all abilities that allow players to AFK? I'm all for it. That means DE needs to take all the guns out of the game as well, as I can stand on point with Primary and/or Secondary and not be forced to move in Defense. It isn't a hate of an AFK system I have, it's a dislike for a system that punishes those that don't need to move on a stationary mission. Read that again: STATIONARY MISSION. If you need to move, all good for you. Lots of us have the skill were we don't need to though. Other than for the AFK System, which the chronic AFKers have macros to move for them so they don't forget.

Now, if you all want to say the AFK system is fine and doesn't need work, so be it. However, don't begin to think you understand my game play style, nor skill level.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Ryim_Drykeon

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

1 hour ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

As for nerfing all abilities that allow players to AFK? I'm all for it. That means DE needs to take all the guns out of the game as well,

Let me see you play a mission with your gun without moving.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Let me see you play a mission with your gun without moving.

Defense, which is what we were discussing. Sure *shrugs* Not hard.

[5p33dy_01]

On 2019-06-02 at 1:47 PM, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Yesterday, I got no rewards for a Defense due to "Inactivity".

I really don't care about the rewards, as I was simply helping a friend, but the reason for my "Inactivity" was that I didn't need to move. It was a Defense Mission and I was playing Octavia. So the really really really LAZY PROGRAMMING of the AFK system tagged me as "Inactive" since I didn't move the required steps in the required time (whatever that is). So this brings up two points:

1) Players are far more skilled at playing the game than Devs. This is not a slam, just a fact. So I'm guessing that they don't understand that movement is not needed at times, and can actually take you out of a prime tactical position. In this case, it wasn't needed. Not just from Octavia, since I can take about any frame into a Defense, stand on the target and obliterate everything without moving for many waves.

2) AFKers (the ones DE is trying to stop with this system) already have macros and other systems of their own to get around this system. It's not hard as the system is very poorly designed.

So the only players DE is actually effecting with their AFK system are actual players, not AFKers. And yes, FanBoys, I can always move a few steps to avoid this. Not the point. The point is the system is ineffectual to the point of harassing valid players. It doesn't help. It only causes harm to the game, and someone in charge at DE needs to walk down the hall and have a chat with those responsible for the AFK system, it's implementation, and it's workings.

proposed fix to all your problems..

adjust the anti-afk system to remove points as you remain stationary.
new activity bar capped at 300 points
1 point per second up to 10sec
10 points per second up to 20sec
20 points per second up to 30sec
30 points per second up to 40sec
etc

when the points run out, you die, and when you are revived from afk death, you are revived with 50 points

points are gained 1 per 5 meters moved

then you will have a reason to move in EVERY mission

[xMarvin732]

14 hours ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Defense, which is what we were discussing. Sure *shrugs* Not hard.

The reason it is like that is because of bots being able to use macros to automatically use abilities and staying around doing nothing, thats why Ember got nerfed so hard too.
Find an Aimbot with automatic shooting and even if you are not doing that but staying around only shooting, the game still thinks you are afk.
The game is connected to constant repositioning for an example Survival, and in Defense i run around and kill things with weapons and use abilities so it goes by faster, if you want to stand around only and shoot at enemies coming at you, i dont think Warframe is a right thing then for you since shooter games are far from being games where you need to stay around and aim and shoot only, even in the Zombie Mode in Call of Duty Black Ops 2 you cant just stay around and shoot the Zombies.
I made a feedback post about the Volt and Loki Prime Vault and how unfair it is having it Void only and how i met someone who was afk, standing around and just moving around to the next hiding spot and having only 19 kills at the end of a 20min survival and that was 2 times in a row!
he got his rewards and didnt got declared as afk even though he contributed with 19 kills, activated one single life support capsule and back to the hiding spot, not doing anything at all besides assisting us in the fight which i have the video of it too.
and also,

16 hours ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Since you three decided to necro a thread that had moved down several pages, let me point out that my average mission time is less than 5 minutes.

its been only 2-3 days , its not necroing a thread when it has been max 3 days only, Its only necroing if its been too long, like few weeks, a month or two or even years.