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Declining state of K-Drives and a possible way to fix it.


Eruend
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Hello! I'd like to start off by saying.... To hell with K-Drives! 😄

And that opening statement is purely due to how much they currently make me want to rip my face off, tack it onto a concrete support beam and punch it several times for subjecting myself to the required grind to get the MR off of them, all in my increasingly frustrating quest to eventually reach MR30! (Not available yet, but one needs to prepare for that!)

It was already something I put off simply due to how mind numbingly boring it was just going in circles and repeating tricks. Atleast did it enough to get my first custom board and rank it up to 14! But apearently, such methods are frowned upon by DE. And rightfully so! However, instead of presenting a more viable alternative to something that was already overly tedious, it seems that what was decided, was to INCREASE the tedium by invalidating this method and placing the other, less appealing method as the ONLY viable method! Because that's totally how you make things better! By making everything else worst, right? (inb4nerftheworld)

Now if this seems like an angry post, I assure you, that was not my original intent. It only kindof derailed into that rather instantly after I started typing, despite my original intentions to keep this neutral. Done with that rant and if you are still capable of reading to this point with clear thoughts, then I applaud you, because I couldn't blame a "person" for getting heated at receiving such criticism, though this kind of criticism would also be important for a "company" to get in order to hopefully see some improvement in the future. That said, I'm mad at the executive decisions made, not the individuals working on the game.

With all that out of the way, I think you can figure out already what I think about the current state of K-Drives. It's all been said several times in the past by several other players. It's boring, repetitive, shallow and useless. The fact it gives MR is more of an issue then anything else, as it could have just been a simple gimmick otherwise and the only fault some (not me) would find in such a gimmick would be that it would be time used on something frivolous instead of necessary changes. (again, I would NOT have been of that opinion, but you KNOW there would have been people complaining about it. There always is.)

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Now then, I heard that during a dev-stream, there was talk about possibly allowing the operator to use the K-Drive. I've also heard that the idea has been shelved since the devs decided that using a hoverboard would be too dangerous for the super psychic (???) year old kid with unreasonably high telekinetic abilities who can simply return to his warframe whenever he takes a bullet to the face... While some cyborg children who still have a fully exposed HUMAN head on their shoulders still compete against us in races on said dangerous devices.

That said, I think this idea is a bit of a missed opportunity. I figure that all the woes that DE is having with Arkwing completely outperforming K-Drives to the point of irrelevancy no matter WHAT they do to poor old Itzal, could be solved if the Operator was allowed to use the K-Drive. Why would that change anything? well... On its own, it would do nothing for the situation, but if the operator was allowed to use his abilities along with the K-Drive, all of a sudden, you would have an alternative mode of transportation that would offer something that Arkwings can't do AND it would allow for K-Drives to keep up with arkwings in mobility (Turning the Void Dash through plains problem, into an actual solution to another somewhat related issue)

All of a sudden, K-Drives would be fun!

If you've read through this whole thing, I'm sure you've had enough of my snarky remarks and are possibly starting to miss Rhaetalius, but I will say, thanks for sticking through it! People who are able to stick through that kind of lashing are the people DE needs right now! Though my faith has waned over the years, I still hope for the best, and wish you all the best. 🙂

Edited by Eruend
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35 minutes ago, Eruend said:

If you've read through this whole thing, I'm sure you've had enough of my snarky remarks and are possibly starting to miss Rhaetalius, but I will say, thanks for sticking through it! People who are able to stick through that kind of lashing are the people DE needs right now! Though my faith has waned over the years, I still hope for the best, and wish you all the best. 🙂

Is it as exhausting to avoid stating your feedback as plainly as possible as it is for me to read it? I doubt it. Can't miss a youtuber if you never watch them.

36 minutes ago, Eruend said:

All of a sudden, K-Drives would be fun!

Fun means 10 things to 3 people. Your idea doesn't change the fact the most vocal people consider any delay between starting the game and rewards to be too much time wasted and inefficient. Why ride a K-Drive when you can just Blink?

Switching to Operator, summoning the K-Drive, jumping on the K-Drive... and I'd use it to go way too fast to target much of anything with a wide variety of Amps and a Void Blast that isn't exactly long range.

You can't say this addresses the issue of Archwing use vs. K-Drives in the open zones. Stacking systems together vs. just using an Archwing does nothing to address the vocal players' problems, DE's problem with the whole thing or the actual problem: K-Drives are limited to the ground. They are subject to whatever the terrain happens to be. Unless PoE or Fortuna are made into featureless, flat voids, there is not much you can do to change the reality of Blink being the most attractive way to get across a wide area.

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Just make it extremely fast, mind-numbing fast. With super high jumps, like insanity high. The way they are now they are too limited, and pretty boring. Put like a big engine on the back that leaves a long trail. They'll never be as efficient for getting around as Arch wings, so just make them more fun. And let people use their weapons while riding them for gosh sakes. 

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1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

snip

Yes, yes it is exhausting to try and forcefully hold back when you have allot on your mind. For me anyway. I believe I did address all the issues, just not in a manner that you agree with, or perhaps there is simply a misunderstanding.  We are both entitled to different opinions. And lastly, though my comments may have been somewhat scathing, I'm sure we can agree that at least I brought something to the table, trying to be productive instead of doing nothing but bringing down the other party. 

Anyway, I am a little curious to know what you mean by "Your idea doesn't change the fact the most vocal people consider any delay between starting the game and rewards to be too much time wasted and inefficient." am I correct in interpreting that as saying that you don't see how what I propose allows K-Drives to share the operator's void dash, which pretty much comes in line with typical Archwing performances? Leaving Itzal aside, I think that helps. Baby steps atleast.

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Just now, Eruend said:

Yes, yes it is exhausting to try and forcefully hold back when you have allot on your mind. For me anyway. I believe I did address all the issues, just not in a manner that you agree with.  We are both entitled to different opinions, but simply denying the opposing view is... perhaps arrogant? And lastly, though my comments may have been somewhat scathing, I'm sure we can agree that at least I brought something to the table, trying to be productive instead of doing nothing but bringing down the other party. And now, for some reason, my return key has ceased to function. 😕

You suggested K-Drives with an Operator that could Void Dash would make K-Drives more interesting to players. You can't Void Dash through mountains. Therefore there is no way to make K-Drives as fast as an Itzal using Blink... or any of the Archwings that simply go over all of it.

Making glass flavored might make the idea of eating it slightly less horrible, but doesn't actually confront the actual problem that it is just not a good idea to eat glass. K-Drives aren't and cannot go as fast as Archwings, unless you ignore the reality of what it is that both things will have to navigate and think the idea is just that K-Drives don't have enough pizazz and people will just overlook the fact they can't go nearly as fast as an Archwing in the actual game, not on paper.

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Sorry about that, you probably saw some text I would have prefered not to actually share with that post you quoted. Sudden lack of the return key kind of threw me off, so I went in to fix it with an edit and also revisited the post itself. I apologize if any of it was in poor form.

As for flying over mountains and rivaling Itzal, I keep hearing about people using void dash to get from one part of the map to the other. I believe this would only happen if people actually considered void dashing viable enough to be used as an alternative to Itzal. Pair it up to the K-Drive, which would in turn enhance the range of void dashing, then I believe you would have a proper contender, despite its terrain limitations.

There's also another noteworthy aspect to this idea. Tying the operator's abilities to the K-Drive, effectively opens it up as a "combat vehicle" for open world terrain. I for one, would very much enjoy blasting things with my amp as I zoomed by. Giving the operator extra mobility in a limited setting such as "open world areas" would add to the depth of that form. as it stands, the operator is only brought out in the cases where it is absolutely needed. The way I see it, this is a case of two mediocre things coming together to complete each other.

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Just do races, I maxed all my boards doing races and it didn't even take long. Generally maxing my standing for the day will max out a board or very close to it. I like the k drives but they're so much slower than archwing, the mission can be over by the time I get there. This I'm using archwing to remain a contributing member of the team.

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How do K-Drive decline below pointless waste of coding time?

They have about the same impact on Warframe as Flappy Zephyr, Wyrmius, Frame Fighter and Lunaro.

Like all those game modes. No one asked for it. Few like it and even fewer would care if it just disappeared from the game. I find it comical DE removed Raids for being taxing on coding time and yet make pointless things like this. Yes, have fun, make some Easter eggs n' stuff but not when you're stretching to get things done on time.

Fix the core game so it's fun first then add flavor stuff. DE Priorities give me a migraine.

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3 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

How do K-Drive decline below pointless waste of coding time?

They have about the same impact on Warframe as Flappy Zephyr, Wyrmius, Frame Fighter and Lunaro.

Like all those game modes. No one asked for it. Few like it and even fewer would care if it just disappeared from the game. I find it comical DE removed Raids for being taxing on coding time and yet make pointless things like this. Yes, have fun, make some Easter eggs n' stuff but not when you're stretching to get things done on time.

Fix the core game so it's fun first then add flavor stuff. DE Priorities give me a migraine.

This, sometimes i think like they have their own separate fanbase somewhere hidden from the world in some cave, and base their game decisions on what that fanbase that no one ever saw want.

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4 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

How do K-Drive decline below pointless waste of coding time?

They have about the same impact on Warframe as Flappy Zephyr, Wyrmius, Frame Fighter and Lunaro.

Like all those game modes. No one asked for it. Few like it and even fewer would care if it just disappeared from the game. I find it comical DE removed Raids for being taxing on coding time and yet make pointless things like this. Yes, have fun, make some Easter eggs n' stuff but not when you're stretching to get things done on time.

Fix the core game so it's fun first then add flavor stuff. DE Priorities give me a migraine.

makes more frames/skins we don't ask for instead of fixing game xD

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I've only ever half ranked up my first k drive.   I don't want to spend my playtime ranking up a tool I will never use even if there is a stack of mr behind it.  There are other things I want to do in the game.

The fact that k drives are useless as a form of transport compared with the other options, ie any archwing, is just another example of de not thinking things through.

If you could mod them to have big guns, scythes and flamethrowers attached, well, now you're talking.   

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You fix it by knowing its niche...Archwings get us to missions fast and home faster..K-Drives should let us farm material and hunt animals...Allow the radar to pick up the beasties, gems, and allow us to fish off it.... and players would use them...

Edited by (PS4)FriendSharkey
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In my opinion, the problem with K-Drives is that they're a square peg in a round hole. DE knew this, which is why they tried to sell them to us as "fun" and "skateboard culture." The fact remains, however, that they have no real use. Just about any situation where you can even activate your K-Drive is a situation where your Archwing would be more useful. It's really only Inaros and maybe a few others who really suffer by losing long-term buffs when boarding their Archwing. As such, the solution to "fixing" K-Drives is, in my opinion, to find them an actual use uniquely their own.

My proposal remains to simply let us ride them during indoor missions. Sure, some tilesets are too cluttered to really make use of a K-Drive, but a lot of the newer ones have wide open areas and lots of long, clear hallways. Jupiter Remasterd, for instance, has hallways the size of residential streets and plenty tall ceilings. Being able to use my K-Drive to travel around them rather than Salmond-flopping my way through would be an improvement. Crucially, it's a thing that Archwings can't do.

Point being, K-Drives as transportation are a dead-end street. There are objectively superior options. K-Drives as skateboards have a very niche audience for how hideously grindy their progression is. They need some kind of utilitarian puropse, else I might as well just hang mine on the wall to look pretty.

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53 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Point being, K-Drives as transportation are a dead-end street.

I don't think they are a total dead-end. Maybe for most but not for everybody.
Archwings give me motion sickness so I'm glad there is an alternative and fun way of transportation. And there are some good mods that make K-Drives more viable and more fun.
But I mostly play solo and have no need to keep up with teammates.
With that being said, I wouldn't mind the ability to use K-Drives in combat, hunting and fishing. And yeah, let the operator ride it, why not. 😎

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I'm not in favor of DE putting more development time into K-Drives. They're an entertaining diversion now and again, but they don't really need "revitalized." The people who like to ride them will, and the people who don't won't. 

It's a shame that DE associated mastery rank with them, but if I were them, I'd never put another person-hour of work into K-Drives. It's just not worth the opportunity cost. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)H-Refr said:

I don't think they are a total dead-end. Maybe for most but not for everybody.
Archwings give me motion sickness so I'm glad there is an alternative and fun way of transportation. And there are some good mods that make K-Drives more viable and more fun.

Well, they're CAPABLE of transportation and I don't really want to change that. I'm saying, however, that they're never really going to be competitive with Archwings outside of edge case issues like yours and mine (mine being Scarab Armour). If we're going to be making changes to K-Drives, I'd rather those were aimed at giving them their own niche, rather than attempting to make them more competitive with Archwings. I mean, up until the Plains of Eidolon, I'd argue that Archwings themselves were pretty much a design dead end, but that gave them a pretty dang good niche. I'd like to see the same done with K-Drives in some fashion. Letting us drive them in indoor missions where Archwings can't be used would be an easy first step.

Well, I say "easy." They'd still need to fix the broken physics which happen if you hit the ceiling while riding a K-Drive.

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Seemed OP was saying something like they removed pipe grinding behind Fortuna as a lvling method, just checked and they did not, so phew!. Lvling and rep gain is fine as is currently, one of the easier rep grinds in the game.

As to functionality, they could add a fast travel function that lets you autopilot swiftly free of aggro to any Loc Pin you have placed on the map once "Logical" is achieved and not make this available to AW. They could add a "Luck o the Vent Kid" X minute drop/affinity/x booster-buff once Logical and do Xk worth of trick affinity. There is lots of potential for short duration buffs that the frame/operator get after doing X amount of tricks/affinity.

The K Drive dmg mods are currently not useful and need fixing. Make them fields around the KDrive that do various things tied to trick affinity. This would be vastly more resource efficient than all the work required to use weapons or frame/operator abilities from them.

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16 hours ago, Eruend said:

 

It was already something I put off simply due to how mind numbingly boring it was just going in circles and repeating tricks. Atleast did it enough to get my first custom board and rank it up to 14! But apearently, such methods are frowned upon by DE. And rightfully so! However, instead of presenting a more viable alternative to something that was already overly tedious, it seems that what was decided, was to INCREASE the tedium by invalidating this method and placing the other, less appealing method as the ONLY viable method! Because that's totally how you make things better! By making everything else worst, right? (inb4nerftheworld)



Have you tried changing your macro to do Figure-8s and repeating tricks instead of Circles?

That's what I've been doing daily, still works fine.

Login, leave K-Drive bot running for 40mins to max out standing for the day.

Then get down to business playing for real. Its a minor annoyance having to account the extra time into play schedule; I guess you could do it at the end of day too...

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9 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

You fix it by knowing its niche...Archwings get us to missions fast and home faster..K-Drives should let us far material and hunt animals...Allow the radar to pick up the beasties, gems, and allow us to fish off it.... and players would use them...

these sound like goods suggestions. especially if you don't have to get off the k drive to mine or scan.

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9 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

I will never understand why People are upset that k drives have mastery rank in them. Just ignore it?

Oh, I do. I think I might have reached rank 2 on the "starting" K-Drive.

There will never be a time when we run out of mastery options, since that's what keeps people playing. DE will always release something else to master.

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And i even thought for a second to put few formas on one XD.. But its so bad for movement and combat (even with potato and all mods at disposal) that i gave up..

The rep farming is bad cause its crazy boring. 

Boards get faster with mods, but also get far more annoying to use (like volt speed, yeah faster but ty i prefer not to).

I prefer to use void dash/itzal for long range mobility just because they are so convenient and fast. Archwings abilities are actually really great (not only blink) and the ability to use my guns in the air is awesome (try a thumper on itzal with invisibility on).

Why cant i ride my board and spray my akstilletos forever cause my board gives me back the bullets is basically beyond me. Why i cant hit mobs with the board and than get back on it all as a super board-combo, all while driving. Why there are no new melee combos/stances when onboard while doing tricks.. Imagine a frontflip with a charged scindo slash in the back of the mob working as a finisher. So much fun, so not opie, why its not here yet. I am in a warmachine my transport needs to let me kill better or in a fun way.. Give me something other than moving from a to b. Especially if its annoying and turtle speed. 

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On 2019-06-03 at 5:00 AM, TaylorsContraction said:

Just do races, I maxed all my boards doing races and it didn't even take long. Generally maxing my standing for the day will max out a board or very close to it. I like the k drives but they're so much slower than archwing, the mission can be over by the time I get there. This I'm using archwing to remain a contributing member of the team.

Is there any point in modding the boards?

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