The New Nullifier Paradigm = Unfun

[DeadVoid118]

49 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

That is difficulty that you've set on yourself, it isn't the game being challenging though. There's a big difference there m8.

So? If you want the game to be challenging you can make it challenging. How is that any different from a Dark Souls playthrough with no equipment or other things? It's not. Dark Souls is a lot easier if you get the right gear and try to cheese the bosses. People don't do that because they want it to be challenging.

[aswitz87]

Nullies are not horrible to deal with, but they could be much better for gameplay.

1) larger bubbles

2) instead of instant no ability, all ability stats lose strength as you are in the bubble (and take time to ramp up after you leave the bubble).

 

It would have to be both together though to make the thing complete.

[Sharkgoblin]

this is how i deal with nullifiers

Edited June 4, 2019 by Sharkgoblin

[Paradoxity]

3 hours ago, XRosenkreuz said:

Because every single person in this game wants it to be 'more challenging without just adding bullet sponges,' but the moment DE actually does that, those same people find some reason why it's unfun and shouldn't be in the game. God forbid you, you know, shoot the bubble. Or use your melee. The moment you block peoples' Frame abilities for more than a second, it 'ruins the game.'

Me, I had a blast when I realized what was going on. Like, I figured they'd tweaked nully logic to make them go after you, but no... they just took away the gun and slapped a double Prova in their hands. Brilliant, says I.

... but nullifiers are just more bullet sponges, assuming you want to keep your abilities up, and if you don't give a toss about keeping your abilities up, they don't even register. 

[(NSW)Zuhs]

"Crashing down on the Nullifier" strategy is super effective.

"Aim & Shoot multiple times" has no energy cost. "Rambo" strategy is also effective.

Ammo Mutation Mods also come in handy. No waste.

[Vohim]

im all up for challenge but yeah im sick of   anti ability garbage it beats the whole purpose of warframes  as a whole 

i'd say disruption is a good example of a challenge  enemies get progressively stronger   in every sense damage, sustain, utility 

and then  all of a sudden you start noticing  your abilities are locked 90% of the time even while theres no nullifier bubbles , that is just unfun  and annoying as hell

specially if like me you main  a melee frame like Valkyr , you would think she would be cool  as a miniboss hunter but nope the minibosses seem to have  an invisible Nullifier aura so  poof hysteria gets cancelled and while you're stuck in your  forced weapon swap out of hysteria animation the damn demolysts self destruct on the objectives.

[makaloff95]

i honestly dont mind nullifiers that much, however there is one change i would like to see: instead of outright remove abilities and buffs, just prevent them to be casted while in the bubble (but keep the buffs on in the bubble). its highly frustrating when you are running a frame that is highly dependant on buffs in order to perform well (chroma and Nezha to mention 2) and its a bit overkill wit the complete removal of buffs and spell as soon as a nullie bubble touches you (the machine ontop is almost impossible to hit and not everyone runs with high rate of fire weapons).

also do a 30min+ corpus surv mission and watch the nullifiers pile up litterly everywhere (have seen cases when you have a small room and you have 6-7 nullies run in and ruin your day).

 

[Alladx]

increase the bubble range by 1000%, give every enemy inside the bubble 100% damage reduction, increase their move speed by 1000% i really don't care. Make them super hard to deal with, but stop deleting my magnetize/cataclysm etc. Yes you can kill nullifiers quite quickly (assuming you have a high fire rate weapon equipped, get lucky enough to actually hit the drone or are brave enough to try and melee them) but the fact that they outright cancel every ability is nothing short of infuriating. I'm all for an increase to difficulty (preferably in a way that requires you to opt into the difficulty increase) but as plenty of people have pointed out already, nullifiers aren't particularly difficult... they are just annoying.

[Noabettiet]

i like the new designs, but there is no depth in gameplay from just negating everything, it just reduces variety.

[MakubexKido]

plot twist , OP rams into every nullifier he sees even if they can be easily avoided, angered by how incompetent OP is, he came here to demand nullifiers to be nerfed

a TRUE GENIUS !

 

 

[FedTooLittle]

Has anyone mentioned Miter and its syndicate augment Neutralizing Justice?

[zuraith]

I hate nullification, but even more than that I hate having my energy completely sapped with no (detectable) warning

[FatherGrimm]

To be clear, in my original post, I never said "too tough."  I said it wasn't fun.

My regular team did the 4000+ pt. endurance run in last week's operation on the first try, and dropped every demolyst.  It wasn't easy, but we managed.  Unlike other events or challenges in WF, including events in past years that included nullifiers and the like, it was simply not enjoyable to have our frames' abilities constantly wiped out or rendered inaccessible.  Unfun.

[844448]

On 2019-06-04 at 11:08 AM, Keylan118 said:

Nullifiers. Since the discussion is supposed to be about that, I'm not going to engage on Eidolons.

Yes, it's that simple. Problem is that bubble is running at you. We're back where we started. Too many bubbles at once acting as multiple roles (tanks, buffs, energy drain). Sure, you can shoot one or two down. Four running you at once is going to be a problem, though, and especially so if your movement is limited like in a tight hallway.

Their grapples can go through walls so long as they start the animation before you are behind a wall. My internet is by no means crappy. Blocking is automatic, as I said. Doesn't change the fact that you still get paused which can be deadly, and the fact that ancients can just launch all their grapples in quick succession bringing you down repeatedly without any chance to actually get away. Also, again, this is supposed to be about nullifiers, but I recognize that we've already been talking about this for a bit so I'm fine with continuing this, but I'd prefer to leave it in favor of the purpose of the thread.

Are you just ignoring my entire thing about platinum and how it's not a solution especially for a F2P game? You can trade for it, sure, but that is as unreliable as Baro if not more. Somebody has to buy that platinum in the first place. You have to rely on someone else buying that in the first place and then be willing to trade with you for it for something you have. That's p2w with extra steps. Otherwise, why not just lock every bit of new content behind platinum?

Too many bubbles at once act as merely multiple layers of barrier, there's no buff or energy drain here. Sure, there's tight hallways but you also need to remember that you're not locked in one room made of a tight hallway, you have more rooms to retreat

So, you just want to get things that DE made to be some hard content exclusive without getting through the slog in some way because you can't handle it? Okay, I can understand that but what can you offer for people that want something that shows their effort for facing the hard content?

[DeadVoid118]

36 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Too many bubbles at once act as merely multiple layers of barrier, there's no buff or energy drain here. Sure, there's tight hallways but you also need to remember that you're not locked in one room made of a tight hallway, you have more rooms to retreat

So, you just want to get things that DE made to be some hard content exclusive without getting through the slog in some way because you can't handle it? Okay, I can understand that but what can you offer for people that want something that shows their effort for facing the hard content?

Buff = Every enemy behind or in the bubble is protected by the bubble.
Energy drain = You must recast your abilities if the bubble reaches you, requiring energy (and not the idea that their bubbles drain energy if you're just inside them. The energy drain is indirect).
Also, there are dead ends, and enemies can come from both directions.
Also also, I would like to point out that I don't consider nullifiers hard in and of themselves. They're may or may not be depending on the level. The problem is they're the first ones to get hard, and they get hard a lot quicker than the enemies around them (as well as the fact that they're serving multiple roles and just plain not fun to play with). Nullifiers are a potential threat at any level where your abilities going away means you die, while other enemies are almost always not such a threat until much later on. They're not fun to play against because they're relatively-boss-like compared to other mobs and they spawn at a rate similar to other mobs, meaning they're 'regularized' and thus expected to play well with other mobs, but they don't. They do everything and don't get much from other mobs (they're Mary Sues in mob form!), and they spawn too often to be the rare, intriguing mini-boss that is supposed to do more.

You could reward certain cosmetics. Not actual gameplay-effecting rewards. Or, instead, boosting chances. 10% chance in hard content, 2% chance in the easier content (as an example). The 'slog' is still there, it's just longer rather than harder for those who can't do the harder.

[zoffmode]

9 hours ago, FedTooLittle said:

Has anyone mentioned Miter and its syndicate augment Neutralizing Justice?

You know what's really pissing me off about latest nullifiers? These goddamn arctic eximus nullifiers... Can't use my Miter on them even though that was the whole point of getting the weapon (god that one took me forever to drop), forma'ing and rolling riven...

Edited June 5, 2019 by zoffmode

[MasaJin]

I dont find nullies fun i play warframe for all the lovely abilities each one has but nullies can take all the away from cc to damg to our own buffs. I could understand it would free mobs from cc auras or damg on them caused by frames that would make the most sense, but why would it clean off our ability? I dont find them hard to deal with i usualy take the dive bomb method to knock them and everyone off their feet and unload on em before it gets up.

There are so many ways of dealing with our abilities being the broken mess DE created but they don't seem to want to change that add some mobs that take away half of the game (the number grows with every update).

 

P.s. i dont find mobility to be the anwser cus its the worse type of play to me cus its looks lame and cluncky sure our moblie options are nice but i shouldnt need to be bunny hoping like a mad man just to survive high lv encounters thats why damg is now king cus y avoid when you can just kill it

Edited June 5, 2019 by MasaJin
I'm bad at English

[makaloff95]

16 hours ago, FedTooLittle said:

Has anyone mentioned Miter and its syndicate augment Neutralizing Justice?

well its a option but its 90% and overall a trash weapon unless you get a proper riven for it

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

On 2019-06-03 at 8:31 AM, FatherGrimm said:

I like to characterize gaming design decisions as one of two choices:  fun or unfun.  Oversimplifcation?  Sure, but it's efficient, and not necessarily directed at the short-term fix.  Some things that are a big challenge, or a grind, may be short-term frustrating, but the sense of accomplishment that comes from overcoming these obstacles might be an overall positive (i.e., fun).

With all the Corpus content in recent months (Fortuna, Gas City) there's been a huge increase in the frequency of nullifying mobs/traps/etc.  Disruption missions are the latest (and worst) implementation of this phenomenon, including melee nullifiers that pop frequently and run right into you.  Doing any Orb Vallis content for an extended period of time (e.g., toroid runs) will pop tons of nullifer and scrambus/comba mobs.

I didn't have issues with the spawn rate/prevalence of nullifer mobs in corpus/corrupted missions before.  Now, it's a big part of what's keeping me and my regular group of RL gaming buddies from getting invested into all the new WF content. 

Having to constantly recast abilities, check on other buffs on group members, and simply being prohibited from using any abilities takes away from all the unique fun of the frames.  This game might as well be a generic FPS shooter if the uptime on our WF abilities is completely tanked. 

Yesterday, for example, I was solo farming toroids, allowing 1-2 alert beacons up, as I didn't want a crazy mess of mobs.  I ended up having my buffs nullified so often I just gave up on recasting them and relied solely on my weapons.  Unfun.

DE, find another way to make your game challenging.  Its no secret that constantly making new frames, with new frame abilities, is a big part of your business model.  More nullifiers and their variants defeats this selling point.  It's a big reason why out of my 4 group members, 3 of us gave up on Fortuna progression, and why none of us are going to ever do another disruption mission again.

 

 

Or, you know, get good.

[FedTooLittle]

23 hours ago, makaloff95 said:

well its a option but its 90% and overall a trash weapon unless you get a proper riven for it

come on, with kitguns, zaws, op melee, and warframe abilities, the primary weapon slot is basically open for business. realistically you wouldn't rely on other primary anyways if you're running endless missions. and idk for you, 90% is most of the time for me.

[makaloff95]

1 hour ago, FedTooLittle said:

come on, with kitguns, zaws, op melee, and warframe abilities, the primary weapon slot is basically open for business. realistically you wouldn't rely on other primary anyways if you're running endless missions. and idk for you, 90% is most of the time for me.

Fair enought, however we shouldnt have to rely on a wepon with augment in order to ease the pain with nullies. Just do so nullies dont nullify buffs and spells, just prevents you to cast them inside the bubble. 

[birdobash]

I agree with this post, nullifiers in normal missions I can handle, they're slow enough and obvious enough that you can reliably break their bubble with a fast weapon, or snipe their drone with a slower weapon (unless it's looking in a different direction, which in that case you're out of luck). Being nullified by these guys is almost 95% your own fault, or just being unlucky and the bubble clipping you through walls or ceilings/floors.

Nullifying effects on OTHER nullifying enemies? I say no, it's such a bad concept I can't do anything but laugh. Runner nullifiers defeat the whole purpose of the first iteration nullifiers weakness, in that they're often too quick or have sporadic movement that it makes it very hard to shoot their drone (do they even have one?) and the disruption tileset they reside in often means you get clipped through geometry, on the other hand you have the demolysts with the INVINCIBLE nullification, where they periodically spew out a half nulli half scrambus type wave around them. This literally removes the entirety of the weaknesses ALL nullifiers had, making it uncounterable, and turns killing them into even more of a gear check than any other thing in the game (even more than eidolons!), but a gear check for JUST your weapons, since all frame buffing just goes out the window.

Those demolysts having such a strong nullification literally defeats 90% of the purpose we built up so much synergy and power within our frame and weapon choice, making it solely a gear check for WEAPONS ONLY.

[FedTooLittle]

2 hours ago, makaloff95 said:

Fair enought, however we shouldnt have to rely on a wepon with augment in order to ease the pain with nullies. Just do so nullies dont nullify buffs and spells, just prevents you to cast them inside the bubble. 

Agreed, or at least like someone suggested before, for buffs like rhino roar disable it temporarily when inside the bubble (buff takes effect back once outside of the bubble).