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(XB1)DavidRyder 74

Ivara was able to defend, now she can't.

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21 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

Limbo doesn't turn off enemy AI nor does it subsequently ignore nullifiers entirely tho. 

  1. So...map wide freezing an enemy in place and making them do nothing isn't equivalent to turning off AI, considering that the AI is doing nothing?
  2. Every Warframe ability is nullified by nullifiers. Stop using this tired excuse.

The double standards and hypocrisy are hilarious.

 

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:
  1. So...map wide freezing an enemy in place and making them do nothing isn't equivalent to turning off AI, considering that the AI is doing nothing?
  2. Every Warframe ability is nullified by nullifiers. Stop using this tired excuse.

The double standards and hypocrisy are hilarious.

 

There is a difference. Limbo can't banish the pod itself. If he protects in a public game either he's using negative range or he's not and slowing down the mission which would be the trade off here. There was no catch for cloaking the pod. It stays safe and the enemies can keep running in. Limbo/Frost can't solo wave 565 Hydron despite the nigh endless cc. Ivara could with the bug.

*Edit*  

I'll meet you in the middle and say this. If they had made it where the enemies wandered aimlessly when cloaking the pod that could make sense, as they wouldn't still be running right towards it. That could've been a potential compromise, as it would slow down the mission solo and you'd have to go to them instead

Edited by AntiMomentum
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3 minutes ago, AntiMomentum said:

There is a difference. Limbo can't banish the pod itself. If he protects in a public game either he's using negative range or he's not and slowing down the mission which would be the trade off here. There was no catch for cloaking the pod. It stays safe and the enemies can keep running in. Limbo/Frost can't solo wave 565 Hydron despite the endless cc. Ivara could with the bug.

Perhaps Limbo cant solo a 565 hydron with all factions but giving him the opportunity with Grineer or Infested is just as garbage in my opinion. 

I'm not defending Ivara's exploit, because thats what it is, an exploit. I'm saying that Limbo sits on that same throne of trivializing content by making a mission unfailable with his kit. That's not right.

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I want to post a quick reminder in the thread to keep it respectful.

You may disagree with changes or one another, but that is no reason to insult other players or resort to name-calling.

Keep it civil, please.

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Posted (edited)

what I thought was odd is you can't cloak your operator with the cloaking arrow for some reason ?

 

edit: I had been playing only several months and I guess due to the gameplay of them being brief hadn't noticed that abilities in general didn't effect operators, thanks

Edited by _Anise_

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40 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Perhaps Limbo cant solo a 565 hydron with all factions but giving him the opportunity with Grineer or Infested is just as garbage in my opinion. 

I'm not defending Ivara's exploit, because thats what it is, an exploit. I'm saying that Limbo sits on that same throne of trivializing content by making a mission unfailable with his kit. That's not right.

Not quite the same -- limbo has to toggle his cataclysm off and then back on, he can't cast it on top of itself.  That small window, at higher levels, is enough to get yourself or your target one shot.  With cloak arrow, you can recast it before it wears off.

Not saying Limbo doesn't trivialize a lot of content, but there is a big difference between what was patched out and what Limbo remains able to do in my opinion.

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il y a 32 minutes, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru a dit :

Perhaps Limbo cant solo a 565 hydron with all factions but giving him the opportunity with Grineer or Infested is just as garbage in my opinion. 

I'm not defending Ivara's exploit, because thats what it is, an exploit. I'm saying that Limbo sits on that same throne of trivializing content by making a mission unfailable with his kit. That's not right.

Limbo was created for this. And rift have a lot of flaws, so you can not be completely safe. Limbo has a delay in applying 4. Although it is small, it can be used by enemies to kill. And you can not update the duration of the ability.

Invisibility in this game is strong enough, so you get a significant advantage when hiding objects in this way, because enemies cannot kill what they cannot take in sight. All you need is to update the invisibility time. At the same time you are absolutely not limited in anything. 

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il y a 2 minutes, _Anise_ a dit :

what I thought was odd is you can't cloak your operator with the cloaking arrow for some reason ?

Abilities do not work on operators. This is a game mechanic.

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3 minutes ago, CubicleNinja said:

Not quite the same -- limbo has to toggle his cataclysm off and then back on, he can't cast it on top of itself.  That small window, at higher levels, is enough to get yourself or your target one shot.  With cloak arrow, you can recast it before it wears off.

Not saying Limbo doesn't trivialize a lot of content, but there is a big difference between what was patched out and what Limbo remains able to do in my opinion.

But you can safely cast 4 while in the rift outside of cataclysm. You can easily just lock the enemies in the rift with 3 to refresh your 2 and 4. In my opinion, getting hit between that transition since you can be virtually invincible during that time period is on the level of saying I accidently pressed sprint while in prowl so I can be shot.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

But you can safely cast 4 while in the rift outside of cataclysm. You can easily just lock the enemies in the rift with 3 to refresh your 2 and 4. In my opinion, getting hit between that transition since you can be virtually invincible during that time period is on the level of saying I accidently pressed sprint while in prowl so I can be shot.

Sure, but now you're talking about properly timing and using 3 different abilities to accomplish the same thing you could do with one ability and no timing on Ivara, right?

I'm just pointing out it's not an apples-to-apples comparison -- the patched piece with Ivara was much simpler to use and caused a very different in-game effect.

Edited by CubicleNinja
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Perhaps Limbo cant solo a 565 hydron with all factions but giving him the opportunity with Grineer or Infested is just as garbage in my opinion. 

I'm not defending Ivara's exploit, because thats what it is, an exploit. I'm saying that Limbo sits on that same throne of trivializing content by making a mission unfailable with his kit. That's not right.

Nope, at those levels damage falls off. Ivara can open enemies to finishers as well that's how wave 565 was reached. If limbo isn't killing enemies fast enough with leeches around he can't keep recasting forever no matter how many energy pizzas you bring. Every faction has them. Frost can continue to spam snow globe for infinite health along with 50% scaling to enemies hit into walls by it (which Hydron has). Because of leeches and no finishers though, he can't continue forever either.

Using the narumon tree is also a very slow way to kill enemies with finishers anyways, and abilities can't be used while in transference. Ivara was able to go forever.

Edited by AntiMomentum
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4 minutes ago, AntiMomentum said:

Nope, at those levels damage falls off. Ivara can open enemies to finishers as well that's how wave 565 was reached. If limbo isn't killing enemies fast enough with leeches around he can't keep recasting forever no matter how many energy pizzas you bring.

The fixes to Ivara's Cloak Arrow was justified.

Do Limbos abilities trivialize content?

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

The fixes to Ivara's Cloak Arrow was justified.

Do Limbos abilities trivialize content?

Up to a point they do, but usally at the cost of slowing down the mission significantly. The bug continued to trivialize endlessly without a cost. Again it would be more balanced if the enemies wandered while it was cloaked rather taking away pod cloaking completely imo. I'm not fan of "complete" nerfs either. I don't defend those.

Except limbos old doomclap that obviously needed the major nerf it got 

Even Mesa/Saryn trivialize most missions with their dps. Without slowing down the mission. Enemies can't hurt the pod if they are already dead. But not forever. Mesa can even tank! Unless you're doing an endurance run in these types of missions dps/kps is always king.

Edited by AntiMomentum
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4 minutes ago, InappropriateTennoName5009 said:

thats not how you keep customers..tell your customers to accept it or fack off..yeah

Keep? You mean losing some, winning others? I literally said it there: "For everyone who doesn't like one thing and gives up, others do like it and join". Warframe is a game about change and evolution. It's the choice of each of us to keep up or not. Because the playerbase is bigger than ever, despite all of the doomsday threads saying how the game is ruined.

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Il y a 2 heures, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru a dit :
  1. So...map wide freezing an enemy in place and making them do nothing isn't equivalent to turning off AI, considering that the AI is doing nothing?
  2. Every Warframe ability is nullified by nullifiers. Stop using this tired excuse.

The double standards and hypocrisy are hilarious.

 

No, i meant that very literally. That cloak arrow on cryopod strat would literally break game AI. Not exactly the same thing. 

That said... 

Il y a 2 heures, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru a dit :

I'm not defending Ivara's exploit, because thats what it is, an exploit. I'm saying that Limbo sits on that same throne of trivializing content by making a mission unfailable with his kit. That's not right.

I fully agree with you. In fact i think the limbo rework was one of the biggest mistakes of 2018.

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Something similar happened with Ash and operative defenses, like those with Sorties a while back, his Smoke Shadow used to cloak npc but that was mostly removed making the augment much less useful.

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1 hour ago, Autongnosis said:

No, i meant that very literally. That cloak arrow on cryopod strat would literally break game AI. Not exactly the same thing. 

That said... 

I fully agree with you. In fact i think the limbo rework was one of the biggest mistakes of 2018.

Categorically false.

 

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i'm gladly want new wukong rework but not the current one, after rework , it will be my second main character as side from Rhino.

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Uhhh... So much salt 😋

But serious, with the right mods every warframe is pretty good. 

I can easily do defense or survival with her without any problems so I can't understand your argumentation. 

Yes sure the can be wiped out quite fast so you must be careful. 

It's no frame u take to go full in like inaros that should be sure too. 

She is more a sniper frame - killing from distance imo

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il y a une heure, -TSA-Swaggi a dit :

She is more a sniper frame - killing from distance imo

Or a torpedo bomber with a zenistar. xD

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Il y a 5 heures, (XB1)Thy Divinity a dit :

Categorically false.

You sure about that? I agree in principle that Limbo desperately needed a rework, but turning him from a disfunctional warframe to locally turning off AI? That's another thing entirely tbh. 

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14 hours ago, KaijuKraid said:

If we take other reworks, such Nyx's, Titania's and Zephyr's, people generally agree these fixes are in the right direction but haven't gone nearly far enough to complete it and in the end feel more or less abandoned rather than actually got a proper rework. They certainly still need work, but they are better than they were once. Just still not good enough. 

 

The only thing these changes got me to agree on is to mostly just give up.

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