Trans Pride Flag Palette for Pride?

[NightmareT12]

24 minutes ago, Tr1balR said:

What can Warframe possibly gain from adding a color palette that is representative of a political view?

I was going to stay out but...

It's not about Warframe. It's about the people who make Warframe and who play Warframe. Because you don't probably know how much impact it has to people that might be going through hell just for being who they naturally are.

Look at Riot Games, they released the Pride month icon (the one with multiple colored poros) and a rainboiw recall in the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia. Do they win anything? Not at all, because it's literally free (you just need some Blue Essence/IP, that's all). But for the people playing? How many people suffer because of others not accepting? Of others wanting to make them believe they are wrong, faulty, defective somehow? Bullied at school, work or even home? You would be impressed at how much their hobby and favorite people supporting them helps going forward. There's people working there who have suffered it, and don't want anyone else to suffer anymore. And that's why these things get made. Out of pure empathy.

Rights are like this. Always. We thought at first they came from tradition. Then from gods. Eventually, merely 6 centuries ago, we understood they came from our own nature as human beings.

People wanted to keep kings in their position as arbitrary rulers. Conquered territories under their posession. Paying workers little or none at all for working tons and tons of hours. Children with no school and working in conditions that endangered their health. Etcetera. Etcetera.

Today we live in societies that, unless under a dictatorship, have a constitution, whether written or not. And in there there's a number of rights collected. And none of these came from standing still not saying anything, precisely, or artists (since videogames ARE art) not stating their views on the matter.

So yes, not only can DE add something to make a difference (and hey, did we forget Ticker?), I encourage them to do so. Make a difference DE. Don't be afraid of being human.

[Uber.Munchkin]

Also.  Let's be clear.  LGBTQ+ Rights are not a political position, it's a fundamental basic human rights issue.

Small or Big government is a political view, open or close borders is a political view, strong or weak regulation is a political view.  Discriminating against a person or persons because of their gender, sexuality, race or religion is not a political view, it's a disgusting form of outright discrimination.

And to say it again, adding representation for minority groups costs the majority group nothing.

[Tr1balR]

1 minute ago, NightmareT12 said:

I was going to stay out but...

It's not about Warframe. It's about the people who make Warframe and who play Warframe. Because you don't probably know how much impact it has to people that might be going through hell just for being who they naturally are.

Look at Riot Games, they released the Pride month icon (the one with multiple colored poros) and a rainboiw recall in the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia. Do they win anything? Not at all, because it's literally free (you just need some Blue Essence/IP, that's all). But for the people playing? How many people suffer because of others not accepting? Of others wanting to make them believe they are wrong, faulty, defective somehow? Bullied at school, work or even home? You would be impressed at how much their hobby and favorite people supporting them helps going forward. There's people working there who have suffered it, and don't want anyone else to suffer anymore. And that's why these things get made. Out of pure empathy.

Rights are like this. Always. We thought at first they came from tradition. Then from gods. Eventually, merely 6 centuries ago, we understood they came from our own nature as human beings.

People wanted to keep kings in their position as arbitrary rulers. Conquered territories under their posession. Paying workers little or none at all for working tons and tons of hours. Children with no school and working in conditions that endangered their health. Etcetera. Etcetera.

Today we live in societies that, unless under a dictatorship, have a constitution, whether written or not. And in there there's a number of rights collected. And none of these came from standing still not saying anything, precisely, or artists (since videogames ARE art) not stating their views on the matter.

So yes, not only can DE add something to make a difference (and hey, did we forget Ticker?), I encourage them to do so. Make a difference DE. Don't be afraid of being human.

I did say that it is not the responsibility of video game companies to represent the LGBT community, instead the responsibility of those who hold the key to the door, such as politicians and political advocates. Video games are escapism, are they not? What would you think if a person that was a homosexual or of a minority preference played Warframe to escape from the world, what people thought of him, and came to see the palette, with it reminding him of abuse that the person received from his society. Should he not be allowed the choice of escapism into a world where it doesn't matter what you are? Because that is what Warframe is to a lot of people, you can be who you are without anybody saying/signalling anything about it.

[-Temp0-]

9 часов назад, Datam4ss сказал:

What about no. Game developers should remain apolitical and never take a stance in anything which is controversial/always act neutrally. In the same vein, colour palettes should be what they are - colour palettes. They should never be attached to any minority/political group/organisation.

Then remove this one lmao

[Tr1balR]

3 minutes ago, Uber.Munchkin said:

Also.  Let's be clear.  LGBTQ+ Rights are not a political position, it's a fundamental basic human rights issue.

Small or Big government is a political view, open or close borders is a political view, strong or weak regulation is a political view.  Discriminating against a person or persons because of their gender, sexuality, race or religion is not a political view, it's a disgusting form of outright discrimination.

And to say it again, adding representation for minority groups costs the majority group nothing.

It honestly depends what you mean by discrimination. If I am not attracted to those that are of a transgender background am I discriminatory? You shouldn't call it a human rights issue, because, with the broad strokes you have decided to use as your argument, a majority of people do not accept that their preferences are discrimination as you see it.

[Uber.Munchkin]

1 minute ago, Tr1balR said:

It honestly depends what you mean by discrimination. If I am not attracted to those that are of a transgender background am I discriminatory? You shouldn't call it a human rights issue, because, with the broad strokes you have decided to use as your argument, a majority of people do not accept that their preferences are discrimination as you see it.

Discrimination: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

That is what I mean by discrimination.

If you are not attracted to someone who is Trans then that is fine, it's not discrimination it's a you thing, if you are not attracted to them because they are trans then again that is a you thing (although there is a huge amount of nuance in that statement that I just don't have time to dive into here and I don't really want to get into human psychosexual behaviours on a forum about a space ninja game).  If you state that no one should be attracted to that person because they are trans or that a person should not be permitted to do certain things because they are trans then that is discrimination.  Does that help?

[NightmareT12]

4 minutes ago, Tr1balR said:

I did say that it is not the responsibility of video game companies to represent the LGBT community, instead the responsibility of those who hold the key to the door, such as politicians and political advocates. Video games are escapism, are they not? What would you think if a person that was a homosexual or of a minority preference played Warframe to escape from the world, what people thought of him, and came to see the palette, with it reminding him of abuse that the person received from his society. Should he not be allowed the choice of escapism into a world where it doesn't matter what you are? Because that is what Warframe is to a lot of people, you can be who you are without anybody saying/signalling anything about it. 

Oh, but the whole point is that it doesn't matter what you are 🙂

[RicePixie]

2 minutes ago, Tr1balR said:

It honestly depends what you mean by discrimination. If I am not attracted to those that are of a transgender background am I discriminatory? You shouldn't call it a human rights issue, because, with the broad strokes you have decided to use as your argument, a majority of people do not accept that their preferences are discrimination as you see it.

If you aren't attracted to somebody of transgender background who is otherwise indistinguishable from a cis person of their preferred gender, then yes, that's discrimination. Genital preferences (if the trans person is pre or non-op), however, are not, as are reproductive preferences (i.e. if it's important to you that you have a biological child with that partner. Many trans people who undergo hormone therapy are infertile).

However, at the end of the day, the validity of a trans person should not be based on how #*!%able you find them, and the fact that you see it that way is frankly disgusting.

[Tr1balR]

1 minute ago, Mandomness said:

If you aren't attracted to somebody of transgender background who is otherwise indistinguishable from a cis person of their preferred gender, then yes, that's discrimination. Genital preferences (if the trans person is pre or non-op), however, are not, as are reproductive preferences (i.e. if it's important to you that you have a biological child with that partner. Many trans people who undergo hormone therapy are infertile).

However, at the end of the day, the validity of a trans person should not be based on how #*!%able you find them, and the fact that you see it that way is frankly disgusting.

It was a hypothetical question. I do not rate people by how "attractive" they are, that is a gross misrepresentation on your part.

[Numerikuu]

cAn wE gEt A lOcK pLeAsE?

[niutp]

no ban pls

It is pandering if you do it for a month because gotta bring in the advertisers. It is pandering if you do it only for a month then don't give and f about it. DE cares about the matter, so it would be pointless to make it this month. After this month do people forgot they exist? No.

Then you coud ask why didn't they celebrate X? And other X? You either celebrate everything, or nothing. Also the movement LGBTQ+ is political, but not the people rights. Stop confusing and making them the same.

DE is better than this, not doing it because everyone does it for 1/12 of the year. But you have to inject politics into everything. There's already representation. Flavour of the month won't add anything. Standing in line and copying everybody "i use this colour because that's cool and brings in money, but i don't care outside of this month" won't make a difference.

Quote

Small or Big government is a political view, open or close borders is a political view, strong or weak regulation is a political view.  Discriminating against a person or persons because of their gender, sexuality, race or religion is not a political view, it's a disgusting form of outright discrimination.

And to say it again, adding representation for minority groups costs the majority group nothing.

If you treat a group of people special, that prevents them seen as normal. That's how you get segregation. Did you see anything about promoting how Ticker? "Look at this game, so progressive OMG they included a certain npc with this set things!" It is normal, so nobody makes a fuss about it, that's how you make the L.... normal. 

Not doing something isn't hating them. Especially if the thing is just a fancy marketing move.

[Mr.SpookSpook]

@Letter13 lock pls

[-Bigchungus-]

5 minutes ago, Mr.SpookSpook said:

@Letter13 lock pls

Why is that mod name letter, lol iam cringing xD

[(XBOX)UpgradeAcorn989]

Can a mod please lock this thread as its just controversy incarnate 

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Lol, this entire thread is silly.

[YUNoJump]

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

And? You literally took the examples from other games, which has nothing to do with this game environment. Ergo taking issue from another environment simply because this one doesn't have any that entails your own perceived one. The points you made in regards to the topic of cloning in grineer, and neutral pacifism are just leitmotivs and satire to the whole concept of morality, etc. You're asking DE to draw parallel to reality when there's no need for it as the game never touched on the subject matter to begin with.

If we can't use other media as examples then where does the precedent that games can't be political come from? If Warframe is the only viable game to discuss then there's no reason DE can't be political. And you haven't even responded to my explanation of satire, you just called it satire again. Satire is humorous exaggeration used as criticism, not just repeating the theme. Google it.

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

Sure, there's a difference between supporting a cause and forcing others to believe in that cause, but your arguments have been hinging on the idea that the inclusion of this politically driven movement would only bring good for the minority group without considering the probable causality/ repercussions that may arise from it. I.e. We'll eventually be forced to face the probable outcome of your benign believes without a choice even though you had the choice to just take this as what it is, a non-issue to begin with.

You just spent a whole paragraph talking and I really can't tell what you said. You seem to be saying that even though the inclusion of the movement isn't forced, it will eventually become forceful just by existing. What is the actual thing that would cause a benign belief to become forced on someone else, other than that person seeing that argument and gradually changing their mind naturally?

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

The community may be explicitly separate from DE but they ARE DE's lifeline. Without consumers, the suppliers' longevity is at risk, and when there's a split community DE will have to pitch in all the same ergo a headache on their end. It doesn't matter what your gender choice/ standing is, we're all the same to their eyes.

Being important to something doesn't mean that you're attached to that thing, and it especially doesn't mean that you speak for that thing or vice versa. The general population is vital to politicians but that doesn't mean that the people share the same opinions as politicians. Additionally, we're not all the same to DE, because they too support various political stances. Broad ones like "no racism/sexism" and "don't harass people", but the precedent is set.

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

And if some people want it what is the objective point of it all aside from you gaining this perceived recognition from DE?

Yeah that's pretty much correct, people want DE to publicly acknowledge that they are accepted. Outside of adding things, doing this would take DE barely any time or effort at all. What's your point?

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

What's the real goal here when, again, past example have shown this kinda of movement doesn't really have any long term effect all the same

Lol can I see your source on "trans people being accepted doesn't have an effect on people accepting trans rights"? That must be quite the interesting read.

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

DE HAVE accepted LGBT/ Trans group, there's already a few LGBT/ trans partners/ WF content creator out there and they have DE's full support all the same like any other content creator. That on top of how the game environment is made accepting of any and all gamers already speaks of their acceptance, isn't that enough?

DE isn't DE's community. DE not condemning people they affiliate with, who accept trans people, does not mean that DE accepts trans people. Not condemning something is not the same as endorsing something.

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

You're literally creating a paranoid scenario where you "want to know that the game trans people enjoy isn't being run by people who don't accept their existence" when they've already done so for half a decade now.... The community is irrelevant? So other players' acceptance of the LGBT/ Trans group mean nothing and only the dev's matter?  And you want to act like you're on the moral high ground?

Evidently a lot of the community doesn't accept LGBT people, considering the high numbers of people in this thread alone dismissing them entirely. I doubt you could go into a public Warframe chat, say "who supports LGBT rights", and get a majority positive response. That can't be changed, but what helps here is knowing that despite the community having mixed feelings, DE supports LGBT rights themselves and won't allow them to be persecuted.

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

C'mon mate.... least come up with a straight narrative with clear cut logical causality here. You're literally painting yourself as an entitled person instead of one who is thankful of what they have been blessed with. It's not about what you can have, it's about how thankful you are/ should be with what you already have even if it's not explicit.

Apologies for my entitled request of asking for equal rights for trans people, next time ill think about all the blessings trans people have, like higher suicide rates and generally not being accepted by many people in the world compared to cis people. Truly a great thing to be thankful for.

On a side note, what's the deal with the anime girls dude, it's really cringy

[-Bigchungus-]

1 minute ago, (XB1)UpgradeAcorn989 said:

Can a mod please lock this thread as its just controversy incarnate 

Surprised they haven't

 

[(XBOX)UpgradeAcorn989]

Just now, -Bigchungus- said:

Surprised they haven't

 

looks like we'll have to wait until the inevitable 

[-Bigchungus-]

Just now, (XB1)UpgradeAcorn989 said:

looks like we'll have to wait until the inevitable 

I am Inevitable 

[RicePixie]

2 minutes ago, niutp said:

It is pandering if you do it for a month because gotta bring in the advertisers. It is pandering if you do it only for a month then don't give and f about it. DE cares about the matter, so it would be pointless to make it this month. After this month do people forgot they exist? No.

In my opinion, the best road (if they were to add a palette for pride month; I personally don't mind either way, but this would be my advice if they did) would be to sell the palette for plat and donate a percentage of the proceeds to charity. I agree that a company slapping a rainbow or pink/white/blue colours on something to sell for profit and then doing nothing for the communities those colours represent is disrespectful.

OP wasn't asking what the community's opinions would be if DE were to add such a thing, they were just asking DE to do it, and arguing whether or not DE should do it in the first place is against the post's purpose. Suggesting the best ways to implement it if they choose to do so seems more constructive to me.

[Tsardova]

1 minute ago, YUNoJump said:

If we can't use other media as examples then where does the precedent that games can't be political come from? If Warframe is the only viable game to discuss then there's no reason DE can't be political. And you haven't even responded to my explanation of satire, you just called it satire again. Satire is humorous exaggeration used as criticism, not just repeating the theme. Google it.

You just spent a whole paragraph talking and I really can't tell what you said. You seem to be saying that even though the inclusion of the movement isn't forced, it will eventually become forceful just by existing. What is the actual thing that would cause a benign belief to become forced on someone else, other than that person seeing that argument and gradually changing their mind naturally?

Being important to something doesn't mean that you're attached to that thing, and it especially doesn't mean that you speak for that thing or vice versa. The general population is vital to politicians but that doesn't mean that the people share the same opinions as politicians. Additionally, we're not all the same to DE, because they too support various political stances. Broad ones like "no racism/sexism" and "don't harass people", but the precedent is set.

Yeah that's pretty much correct, people want DE to publicly acknowledge that they are accepted. Outside of adding things, doing this would take DE barely any time or effort at all. What's your point?

Lol can I see your source on "trans people being accepted doesn't have an effect on people accepting trans rights"? That must be quite the interesting read.

DE isn't DE's community. DE not condemning people they affiliate with, who accept trans people, does not mean that DE accepts trans people. Not condemning something is not the same as endorsing something.

Evidently a lot of the community doesn't accept LGBT people, considering the high numbers of people in this thread alone dismissing them entirely. I doubt you could go into a public Warframe chat, say "who supports LGBT rights", and get a majority positive response. That can't be changed, but what helps here is knowing that despite the community having mixed feelings, DE supports LGBT rights themselves and won't allow them to be persecuted.

Apologies for my entitled request of asking for equal rights for trans people, next time ill think about all the blessings trans people have, like higher suicide rates and generally not being accepted by many people in the world compared to cis people. Truly a great thing to be thankful for.

On a side note, what's the deal with the anime girls dude, it's really cringy

 

And what does "DE's acceptance" of said group have to do with said group's "higher suicide rates", etc? If you can't even bother to put the effort to understand other's argument then you're essentially making a "me, me, me, me -" scenario where no matter what valid point others make, your self preserving mindset makes a narrative where you're the only one who's right even if you're not doing it for the original group you think you're advocating to anymore.

 

"DE HAVE accepted LGBT/ Trans group, there's already a few LGBT/ trans partners/ WF content creator out there and they have DE's full support all the same like any other content creator. That on top of how the game environment is made accepting of any and all gamers already speaks of their acceptance, isn't that enough?

You're literally creating a paranoid scenario where you "want to know that the game trans people enjoy isn't being run by people who don't accept their existence" when they've already done so for half a decade now.... The community is irrelevant? So other players' acceptance of the LGBT/ Trans group mean nothing and only the dev's matter?  And you want to act like you're on the moral high ground?" <<< READ.

 

So using anime girls to express myself is cringy when your illogical self-aggrandizing "arguments" in guise of LGBT/ trans group and self victimizing illogic isn't?

hy·poc·ri·sy

/həˈpäkrəsē/

noun

 

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

   "his target was the hypocrisy of suburban life"

   synonyms:

   sanctimoniousness, sanctimony, pietism, piousness, affected piety, affected superiority, false virtue, cant, humbug, pretense, posturing, speciousness, empty talk;  insincerity, falseness, falsity, deceptiveness, deceit, deceitfulness, deception, dishonesty, dissembling, dissimulation, duplicity, imposture, two-facedness, double-dealing; informalphoneyness;  rarePharisaism, Tartufferie "plain speaking was important to him—he hated hypocrisy"

 

[Birkenhoff]

If the transgender people get their palette. I want the vegan flag, too.

I'm not vegan and I didn't know such a thing is existing until I googled it 5 minutes ago but...isn't it time?

[Walkampf]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Datam4ss:

Game developers should remain apolitical and never take a stance in anything which is controversial/always act neutrally.

Videogames are part of culture. Every game and other piece of art and media is always a result of it's era.

It is literally impossible for developers to remain entirely 'apolitical'.

Asking them to do shows a massive inability to understand what cultrue is.

You are free to agree or disagree with their stance,

but asking them to be neutral is narrowminded and literally impossible.

[Goodwill]

5 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Apologies for my entitled request of asking for equal rights for trans people, next time ill think about all the blessings trans people have, like higher suicide rates and generally not being accepted by many people in the world compared to cis people. Truly a great thing to be thankful for.

You aren't asking for equal rights. You are asking for special treatment. I don't see Australia getting a special representation color palette. Where's our representation. We also have high suicide rates and homelessness plus workplace deaths in Australia. We are suffering too. Where's our special color palette? Oh wait, we don't want special treatment in Warframe. We just want to play a game. That's our special treatment, that's DE's gift to us, a free-to-play game.

If you really want to help minority groups, then why not do it on your own backs rather than piggybacking off someone else?

[Tr1balR]

All this bickering is doing is proving the point that adding political messages to video games splits a community instead of bringing it together. We as a community have gotten along fine without politics. People should seek more appropriate avenues to discuss their political views.