How to fix Riven

[AnnaCurser]

How to Fix Riven

I always felt that Riven were hardly worth the trouble, because they are just not relyable. But now that I used a bunch of them daily, I found that that was not what was wrong with them.
The Problem was, that Riven are also too expensive.
And it's the combination of both that makes Riven a bad mechanic for the game.

If you're lucky, you may get a Riven for a weapon you really like and use a lot. If not, then you can sell it or disolve it.
If you're lucky again, you may get the stats on it that you wanted or needed. If not, you need you spend at least 9oo Kuva for new stats.
If you're less lucky, you can sink an endless amount of Kuva into a Riven and roll it hundreds or thousands of times even, without getting satisfying results.

Combine that with the droprates of Kuva and what you end up with, is the definition of Insanity.

I suggest:
To make Riven more like a Custom Mod.
You don't roll Kit-Guns or Zaws. You can get the parts that you want and build it the way you need it.
Imagine you can modulate your Riven and change the three stats on it into the direction you want. Every change costs Kuva.
Swap the first for Crittical Chance. Costs Kuva.
Swap the second row for Damage. Costs Kuva.
And the third for maybe Firerate, if you're happy with that. Costs Kuva.
Then you might even tweek those procentages and raise them. Tweek the Chance from 100% to 120%. That of course then costs Kuva too.

You may still lose a lot of Kuva and it may still cost a lot. But you would get what you want and overall spend less Kuva on Riven than you're doing now.

And if you or DE is thinking, "Wait, that would make Riven way too strong."
Then let me remind you, that they already are that strong. There is Riven with those and greater stats, but they have two million Kuva sunk into them. More or less.
If Too Strong is a bad thing, then why did DE give us Riven in the first place?

And here's another thing.
Three Riven Slots cost 6o Platinum. That's 2oP for every slot. Which is as much as a frame slot. But those you can buy seperately. And call me crazy, but I think that a Frame does a lot more than a Riven.
Even a Good Riven tweeks your gun only so much. Where a change in the Frame can change the game and mission drastically.
If DE doesn't want to give us unlimited Riven Space (which raises the question, why don't we have that anyway?) or gives us slots for Credits,
I suggest lowering those prices to 18P for three slots.
That would be 6P for every slot, which then would cost just as much as a weapon slot.

DfC

[krc473]

16 minutes ago, DavidCurser said:

And it's the combination of both that makes Riven a bad mechanic for the game.

I am not sure how many people would agree that they are a 'bad mechanic for the game'. This seems like an odd statement when you are not providing any evidence that people agree.

17 minutes ago, DavidCurser said:

Imagine you can modulate your Riven and change the three stats on it into the direction you want.

Rivens can have four stats. You are forgetting about the negative on a three stat riven. It is hard to follow your suggestion when you fail to account for the negative stats. If these changes are based solely on my choice, and do not require an extra item (excluding Kuva) that would be okay. I am unsure what you mean by 'modulate' as you mention Zaws and Kitguns, both of which require you to acquire and build the blueprints for each part. You have not explained this very well. Do I have to farm for these BPs? 

20 minutes ago, DavidCurser said:

Three Riven Slots cost 6o Platinum. That's 2oP for every slot. Which is as much as a frame slot.

So what? If DE reduces this now do you think everyone that has been paying 60 plat for three slots will want refunds? Because I would expect to get one. And I imagine many others would too. I do think that 60 plat is a perfectly acceptable price. Your argument against this is fairly poor - prices for things are not based on how much they change the game. I would say a significantly better weapon will have a much larger impact on your game than getting a prime frame. But the slot for the weapon is still 6 [12] plat.

23 minutes ago, DavidCurser said:

which raises the question, why don't we have that anyway?

This has been explained before. Google it. Essentially, rivens impact loading time. We want less loading time, so we need to have a cap. DE will inevitably increase this at some point, when they can figure out how to do it with an acceptable impact on gameplay.

[DeadVoid118]

2 hours ago, krc473 said:

This has been explained before. Google it. Essentially, rivens impact loading time. We want less loading time, so we need to have a cap. DE will inevitably increase this at some point, when they can figure out how to do it with an acceptable impact on gameplay.

I really have to wonder how they load Rivens to have such an impact on loading time. Most of loading should be graphical assets, not numbers.

[krc473]

2 minutes ago, Keylan118 said:

I really have to wonder how they load Rivens to have such an impact on loading time.

Its something to do with how rivens function. The stats are not fixed like normal mods. They use a system where each riven can be unique, so it needs to load those. This would be expected to have a greater impact on performance than just copying a mod. It was discussed somewhere on a stream/video.

• Its just database reading and loading.

[DeadVoid118]

1 hour ago, krc473 said:

Its something to do with how rivens function. The stats are not fixed like normal mods. They use a system where each riven can be unique, so it needs to load those. This would be expected to have a greater impact on performance than just copying a mod. It was discussed somewhere on a stream/video.

• Its just database reading and loading.

Yeah, but I would think that would still be pretty simple. As a programmer, I could think of several ways of making it pretty quick. Either all the data is stored on the server, meaning you're just transferring numbers (like everything else) and it's no big deal, or you're sending a 'key' of sorts over to the computer, which means performance is reliant on the PC/console/whatever, but you get less numbers to deal with (and the database isn't that big anyway, you just have weapon key, stat keys, and specific stat variance keys at worst). Both seem pretty simple and I wouldn't know where the load time worries come from.

[AnnaCurser]

9 hours ago, krc473 said:

This seems like an odd statement when you are not providing any evidence that people agree. 

I dont need people to agree. its a bad mechanic regardless of people's opinions.

9 hours ago, krc473 said:

Rivens can have four stats. You are forgetting about the negative on a three stat riven. It is hard to follow your suggestion when you fail to account for the negative stats. If these changes are based solely on my choice, and do not require an extra item (excluding Kuva) that would be okay. I am unsure what you mean by 'modulate' as you mention Zaws and Kitguns, both of which require you to acquire and build the blueprints for each part. You have not explained this very well. Do I have to farm for these BPs? 

I didnt forget them. I just didnt mention them bc they are not needed for my suggestion.
and Idk how DE would make the interface look to Modulate those Riven. If you had to make one from three parts and get those BPs, then I'd be okay with that. The name Riven would then at least still make sense.

9 hours ago, krc473 said:

Your argument against this is fairly poor

Why is it poor when its my personal opinion? I think its too expensive. Theres no dicussion about this.

9 hours ago, krc473 said:

Essentially, rivens impact loading time.

 

6 hours ago, krc473 said:

Its something to do with how rivens function. The stats are not fixed like normal mods. They use a system where each riven can be unique, so it needs to load those. This would be expected to have a greater impact on performance than just copying a mod. It was discussed somewhere on a stream/video.

Which loading time? the one for my mod bench or the one for missions? BC everyone can only bring 3 riven anyway.
and if for the ship then, well, if having 200 riven takes you 2 seconds longer to load, and that is not what DE had in mind, then why do people have so many of them?
maybe they should be more rare. that would fix it.

1 hour ago, Lone_Dude said:

You mention that they're powerful already, but expensive. See, that's the point, genius.

first of all. Rude.
and secondly. the problem is that they can be, but arent. not relyably. not every riven is good. and not every riven is expensive. Most of them arent worth anything.

also you might wanna calm down

Edited June 7, 2019 by DavidCurser

[Kefirno]

10 hours ago, DavidCurser said:

How to Fix Riven

You can't. You can only control damage that has already been done. Butchered dispositions and bloated prices are what keeps Rivens from breaking the game beyond repair. Relatively low % of GOOD Rivens is what keeps power creep manageable (more or less). They shouldn't be better or more affordable or easier to get to desired stats.

[krc473]

1 hour ago, DavidCurser said:

I dont need people to agree. its a bad mechanic regardless of people's opinions.

You are incorrect. You need DE to agree, or why would they make any changes? Why would DE agree when only one person makes that argument? It’s simple, they wouldn’t. You seem to have forgotten about the whole ‘convince DE to change’ thing.

1 hour ago, DavidCurser said:

I just didnt mention them bc they are not needed for my suggestion

So, you’re going to nerf all riven mods as part of this suggestion? Or are you unfamiliar with how they actually work? Perhaps you are just bad at explaining your concept. Riven mods need the negative stat as that makes them stronger, removing it will make them weaker. Why would anyone accept a system that is “large nerfs to all good rivens”?

1 hour ago, DavidCurser said:

and Idk how DE would make the interface look to Modulate those Riven

You need to figure that out before you post making that suggestion. I wouldn’t even bother with rivens if I had to go around collecting anything other than Kuva to modify them. This is something important for your suggestion, you need to figure it out.

1 hour ago, DavidCurser said:

Why is it poor when its my personal opinion? I think its too expensive. Theres no dicussion about this.

I don’t dispute your opinion: you can think they are too expensive. What I dispute is your logic. Nothing is priced on how much it changes the game. Why do you want to argue that riven slots should be? That is a terrible choice because no one can take it seriously.

• You think they’re overpriced. You think DE should make them cheaper. You don’t need to make up a reason other than that.

1 hour ago, DavidCurser said:

Which loading time?

Any loading time that requires information to be collected from a database. I am not familiar enough with this to make a decent argument, so I won’t try. Google it, you should be able to find something.

[krc473]

21 minutes ago, DavidCurser said:

i dont need to figure out anything. Im not a game maker, im no programmer or designer. its not up to me to come up with solutions. and if I did, then DE would need to pay me for it. I can only point out the problems Im seeing

Did you make the suggestion to change rivens so they are modular? Yes. Well, it is then on you to explain what you mean by that. If you don’t want to explain what your suggestion is, you shouldn’t have posted it. How can you expect anyone to take your suggestion seriously if you refuse to explain what you mean?

21 minutes ago, DavidCurser said:

well yeah, tahts what I said. I would like lower prices.

1 hour ago, krc473 said:

Wanting lower prices is fine. Everyone wants that. But it does not help DE. Making up silly excuses for why it should happen is not a good idea. That was my point. You can want them cheaper just because you do. You gave a completely illogical reason for it, which I disagreed with.

21 minutes ago, DavidCurser said:

I dont even care about the loading time

So, you’re quite alright with taking a minimum of 5 minutes to load into anywhere? I am glad you are, because I doubt anyone else is. When you design a game this is something you have to consider - people are impatient.

21 minutes ago, DavidCurser said:

Does that mean that everyday the game becoems slower since everyone gets more and more riven everyday?

No. Because the cap we have now is low enough to prevent issues. 

Edited June 8, 2019 by krc473