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Warframe for the Google Stadia, anyone?


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1 hour ago, SilentMobius said:

There are a number of super interesting things about Stadia.

  • Anyone playing Stadia would have negligable network ping to all other Stadia players (The latency of your video feed woud be an issue but it's a very different kind of latency and Google's cloud infrastructure guarantees aggressive network locality)

 

If I was playing through Stadia, I'd still have significant ping to other players.  Because I live in a marginal area, and my ISP has decided (because reasons) that my DSL should connect to a system on the literal other side of the state.  I have 80-100ms of Ping to even be ONLINE.  My options for better Internet amount to "Move."

I also don't trust Google as far as I could throw their corporate headquarters.  They have a proven track record of getting bored and dropping their "amazing tech" at the slightest provocation.  (Google Glass says hi!)  And their entire business is based around data accumulation and advertising.  I have *zero* faith that they can be trusted with the ability to record and monitor literally *every single thing* I do in online games and NOT try to find a way to monetize that.  Such as through (for example) laser targeted, algorithm driven advertising.  "Oh, you play Warframe?  Well, 85% of the people who play Warframe like anime, and 45% of those people also buy 'The Guyver:  Complete Collection' when we show them this ad.  So while you wait for matchmaking to start your next game, enjoy these ads designed specifically to appeal to you and make you impulsively spend money!"

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12 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

If I was playing through Stadia, I'd still have significant ping to other players.  Because I live in a marginal area, and my ISP has decided (because reasons) that my DSL should connect to a system on the literal other side of the state.  I have 80-100ms of Ping to even be ONLINE.  My options for better Internet amount to "Move."

I also don't trust Google as far as I could throw their corporate headquarters.  They have a proven track record of getting bored and dropping their "amazing tech" at the slightest provocation.  (Google Glass says hi!)  And their entire business is based around data accumulation and advertising.  I have *zero* faith that they can be trusted with the ability to record and monitor literally *every single thing* I do in online games and NOT try to find a way to monetize that.  Such as through (for example) laser targeted, algorithm driven advertising.  "Oh, you play Warframe?  Well, 85% of the people who play Warframe like anime, and 45% of those people also buy 'The Guyver:  Complete Collection' when we show them this ad.  So while you wait for matchmaking to start your next game, enjoy these ads designed specifically to appeal to you and make you impulsively spend money!"

To be fair, google glass was a bit too sci-fi and no doubt too costly with the current reaches of technology.

Advertisements are what they are, simply something to generate ad revenue.

In all likelihood, advertisements might only occur on mobile, with a micro-transaction to get rid of it.

It's an age old marketing tactic, so if it in all realms of possibility does happen... then drop the few dollars it might cost.

It's not going to harm the servers in any way, but instead generate a stable revenue.

Edited by (NSW)MasterDarkwingz
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29 minutes ago, (NSW)MasterDarkwingz said:

advertisements might only occur on mobile, with a micro-transaction to get rid of it.

You haven't been paying attention much lately, have you?  That S#&$ has gone mainstream even in some "AAA" games.

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16 hours ago, EmberStar said:

I also don't trust Google as far as I could throw their corporate headquarters.  They have a proven track record of getting bored and dropping their "amazing tech" at the slightest provocation.  (Google Glass says hi!)  

Statia is just an application of their compute infrastructure, If virtually free for them, that's the beauty of it, It provides base load for one of the other big offerings

Also, Glass Is actually selling fairly well BTW, to industry.

16 hours ago, EmberStar said:

I have *zero* faith that they can be trusted with the ability to record and monitor literally *every single thing* I do in online games and NOT try to find a way to monetize that.  Such as through (for example) laser targeted, algorithm driven advertising.  "Oh, you play Warframe?  Well, 85% of the people who play Warframe like anime, and 45% of those people also buy 'The Guyver:  Complete Collection' when we show them this ad.  So while you wait for matchmaking to start your next game, enjoy these ads designed specifically to appeal to you and make you impulsively spend money!" 

That's your perogative. But I think you misunderstand how Google ads work and just how much data all existing consoles already collect for MS, Sony and Nintendo. This is no worse than the walled-garden consoles, it's just has different pros and cons.

Also, You know that you can just refuse targeted ads right? Also, there is zero indication that Stadia can interupt a ruinning game to do anything, let alone ads. Anything comparable in Google's arsenal (Like the Play Store) simply allows Developers to insert ads if they want the extra monitization, not jamming them into a 3rd party product. I see no reason why DE would choose to add interstitials.

Edited by SilentMobius
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6 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

Also, You know that you can just refuse targeted ads right? Also, there is zero indication that Stadia can interupt a ruinning game to do anything, let alone ads. Anything comparable in Google's arsenal (Like the Play Store) simply allows Developers to insert ads if they want the extra monitization, not jamming them into a 3rd party product. I see no reason why DE would choose to add interstitials.

Maybe you have different options in your settings.  But the only option I get (if logged it) is to disable *targeted* ads.  I can't disable ads without using an add on to nuke them at the scripting level.  If I'm NOT logged in, there's no options related to ads at all.  And without the add on, I absolutely get flooded with ads.  Including a decent number of screeching auto-play videos, and poisoned banner ads that try to run malware scripts.  Which is why I have the add on, and too bad so sad for anyone who depends on the ad placement for their income.

I'm not worried about DE at all, because a dev has already said they have no current plans to try to sign on with Stadia.

And I'm not really worried about Stadia, because I have zero desire to use it, pay for it, or interact with it in any way.  And couldn't even if I did, because I live in an area where the Internet is not *capable* of running such a streaming service with acceptable input lag or worthwhile graphics.  (I'd be looking at a *minimum* of 100ms of lag, and my Internet would be capable of *barely* streaming it at less than 1080p.)

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5 hours ago, EmberStar said:

Maybe you have different options in your settings.  But the only option I get (if logged it) is to disable *targeted* ads

Yes that's what I said (Emphasis added)

11 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

Also, You know that you can just refuse targeted ads right?

You seem to be deeply concerned about targeted ads here:

On 2019-06-09 at 7:16 PM, EmberStar said:

Such as through (for example) laser targeted, algorithm driven advertising.  "Oh, you play Warframe?  Well, 85% of the people who play Warframe like anime, and 45% of those people also buy 'The Guyver:  Complete Collection' when we show them this ad.  So while you wait for matchmaking to start your next game, enjoy these ads designed specifically to appeal to you and make you impulsively spend money!"

Which is why I mentioned it, as this totally mitigates any targeting.

Personally I have virtually no ads so I'm not sure what steps you take to avoid them but mine seem to work. But I also live in Europe (for now) and the GDPR allows me to opt out of tracking at the visited-web-site level.

Basic Cable here is ~100mb downstream, which is pretty common. Depending on how FTP games work on Stadia (It's not totally clear yet) i can see kids using Stadia Basic to hop onto the "Fortnite" of the moment. Even more so if Google roll some enhanced Stadia access into a Google Play/Youtube Red subscription.

Hell I know people who can get ~$10 of Play store credit from a few months of surveys on guugle Opinion rewards, that could pay for a teeneager's Stadia Pro subscription ever other month or so.

 

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I'd like to remind that when this was shown off for the first time there was visibly noticeable input lag.  On what was almost certainly in-house servers. Most likely in a controlled environment with as little interference as possible, and set up to be absolutely perfect.

Evidence:

Spoiler

 

These are conditions you won't ever find in the real world, so expect much worse in real-game conditions.

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14 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

These are conditions you won't ever find in the real world, so expect much worse in real-game conditions.

Can confirm, my area's fastest speed that doesn't cost as much as a monthly payment on a new car is literally 8mbs down, we can barely run Netflix and Youtube at any reasonable level.

There is no bloody way I could stream any game that would need some form of precise timing, hell I can barely play Warframe as is, and that's after the ISP bumped us up from 6mbs down to 8 because they retired their lower end plans.

Anyone who wants the Stadia to be the future of gaming better be first thinking of how to get reasonable internet speeds in more rural areas first, because there are many people who don't have internet that could support it, nevermind the input lag issues.

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2 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

Yes that's what I said (Emphasis added)

You seem to be deeply concerned about targeted ads here:

Which is why I mentioned it, as this totally mitigates any targeting.

Personally I have virtually no ads so I'm not sure what steps you take to avoid them but mine seem to work. But I also live in Europe (for now) and the GDPR allows me to opt out of tracking at the visited-web-site level.

Basic Cable here is ~100mb downstream, which is pretty common. Depending on how FTP games work on Stadia (It's not totally clear yet) i can see kids using Stadia Basic to hop onto the "Fortnite" of the moment. Even more so if Google roll some enhanced Stadia access into a Google Play/Youtube Red subscription.

Hell I know people who can get ~$10 of Play store credit from a few months of surveys on guugle Opinion rewards, that could pay for a teeneager's Stadia Pro subscription ever other month or so.

 

Well, that's good for you, I'm glad the Internet is so up to date in your area.  As I said, where *I* live, Stadia isn't likely to even be possible.  Cable costs about $150 a month for an internet package (because there is exactly one cable provider and Internet access only comes with the *highest* tier of service.)  And that's for a shared loop, where your connection speed varies based on how many people are also using it at that time.  My brother has that kind of service, and he gets *amazing* download speeds.  At two in the morning.  At 5:30 in the afternoon, when everyone is home from work and every kid is playing Fartnite, you can watch streaming video in Minecraft-vision mode.

As far as the ads, as I said I only get any options at all if I'm logged in.  If I'm NOT logged in, Youtube still builds a profile of my viewing, and serves ads based on what it assumes my location is.  (Which, as I mentioned, means that it tries to tell me about local businesses that are actually 500 miles from where I live.)  The difference is that since I'm not logged in, I can't edit it.  So if I slip and accidentally tap on a clip of an Adam Sandler video, I'm stuck looking at his gormless face in half my "recommended to watch next!" videos for the next month until the algorithm decides that I'm for sure not going to click on it again.  Opting out of targeted ads most definitely does NOT prevent them from tailoring the ads, it just means they can't be quite as precision guided.

The "walled gardens" of the console stores are also a massive turn-off to me, to the extent that I've never even made a Playstation account for my PS2 or PS3.  They collect exactly ZERO data on my playing or viewing habits, because I don't trust them with that information and have made sure they cannot possibly get it.  I do have a Nintendo Switch account, and have made a handful of purchases from it.  But the Switch is my least used device, and I don't normally allow it access to the Internet unless I'm specifically making a purchase or installing an upgrade.  Otherwise, it's blacked out in Airplane mode, and not allowed to "phone home" unless I say so.

Personally, I plan to deal with Stadia the same way I have with the Epic Store.  By ignoring it, resenting the hell out of anyone that signs an exclusivity deal with it, and punishing them by not buying the game from any other store until it's deeply on sale.  (Borderlands 3 will be a Year Two purchase for me.  Maybe.  Assuming I haven't forgotten it exists by then.)  I can't afford to be nickle-and-dimed by Google's other services, either.  I do not subscribe to Youtube Red, and have never even loaded the Google Play store.  I'm at the edge of my budget saving up for Prime Access and paying for Netflix and Amazon Prime.  All the other "premium" paid services can go french kiss an eel for all I care.

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3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I'd like to remind that when this was shown off for the first time there was visibly noticeable input lag.  On what was almost certainly in-house servers. Most likely in a controlled environment with as little interference as possible, and set up to be absolutely perfect.

Evidence:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

These are conditions you won't ever find in the real world, so expect much worse in real-game conditions.

You do realize that E3 is the king of demo releases, right? The input lag could always be polished by 2020, you never know until release.

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Who are they really making this for?

By the time it works properly, there would only be the little zombies that only watch streams of youtubers "playing", with the occasional Fortnite "veteran".

 

Joke aside, GL to them, but anything other than backgammon is a loooong way off and I doubt they'll have the patience to manage it for that long.

Inb4 someone steels this idea after 10-15 years, when the tech is sufficient.

6 hours ago, (NSW)MasterDarkwingz said:

The input lag could always be polished by 2020, you never know until release.

Everyone knows. It wont. Especially taking into account the average service provider's favorite expression: up to.

 

Edited by Ver1dian
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6 hours ago, (NSW)MasterDarkwingz said:

You do realize that E3 is the king of demo releases, right? The input lag could always be polished by 2020, you never know until release.

Demo or not, that doesn't change that your control inputs are now at the mercy of your ping.

Plus that video wasn't done at E3, it was done for the original reveal, which absolutely would be in the best conditions Google could make.

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Well from what I've read, Google Stadia is meant to be like Netflix, but for gaming.

Apparently all the hardware and client interfacing will be done from their servers, so all users need to do is subscribe, receive your "dongle / plug-in widget" and controller...and away you go.

Graphics / resolution is scalable, depending on your network connection.

 

For £120, (plus subsequent subscription fees) its considerably cheaper than any console and given you can play in 4k resolution on your main TV, I can see it being quite popular among casual gamers and people who haven't already developed a brand loyalty to a particular console.

It might even spark a price war between Microsoft, Sony & Nintendo if they perceive it as a threat to their market share.

https://store.google.com/product/stadia_founders_edition?utm_source=googlesem&utm_medium=google_oo&utm_campaign=GS102673&utm_term=search&utm_content=UK&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyob0-4Th4gIVz7ftCh2j-QcVEAAYASAAEgLnCvD_BwE

 

Whether DE are interested in getting Warframe onto Stadia is another matter altogether. Given they already have all the main platforms covered, probably not.

 

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On 2019-06-08 at 12:34 AM, [DE]Drew said:

We have no plans to release on Stadia at this time. 

(one cool thing to consider though is that all missions would be hosted on the Stadia servers)
 

Wait, you mean.... No host migration? 

 

So I either have a possibly laggy but migration free game, or I have a laggy and migration prone game? 

 

Could we like make a middle path option? 

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On 2019-06-11 at 7:19 AM, 0_The_F00l said:

Wait, you mean.... No host migration? 

 

So I either have a possibly laggy but migration free game, or I have a laggy and migration prone game? 

 

Could we like make a middle path option? 

You mean like wait until patchwork and bug fixes are complete to start making compatibility plans?

Cause with DE's current stance, that appears to be the only option at the moment.

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On 2019-06-11 at 4:53 AM, FlusteredFerret said:

Well from what I've read, Google Stadia is meant to be like Netflix, but for gaming.

Apparently all the hardware and client interfacing will be done from their servers, so all users need to do is subscribe, receive your "dongle / plug-in widget" and controller...and away you go.

Graphics / resolution is scalable, depending on your network connection.

 

For £120, (plus subsequent subscription fees) its considerably cheaper than any console and given you can play in 4k resolution on your main TV, I can see it being quite popular among casual gamers and people who haven't already developed a brand loyalty to a particular console.

It might even spark a price war between Microsoft, Sony & Nintendo if they perceive it as a threat to their market share.

https://store.google.com/product/stadia_founders_edition?utm_source=googlesem&utm_medium=google_oo&utm_campaign=GS102673&utm_term=search&utm_content=UK&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyob0-4Th4gIVz7ftCh2j-QcVEAAYASAAEgLnCvD_BwE

 

Whether DE are interested in getting Warframe onto Stadia is another matter altogether. Given they already have all the main platforms covered, probably not.

 

That's 120 quid (slang like 'bucks' for us non-Brit readers, but for the British pound) plus extremely valuable personal/usage data.

What it will do is set an example to Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo that it's OK to use the game platform to snoop on users for valuable personal/usage data and maybe even inject advertisements too (because hey, Google is not actually a tech company, it's an ad company that baits you with really cool tech!). Microsoft is already trying to be like Google with, for example, all the telemetry its harvests in Windows 10! My only hope is that EU or US cracks down on this sort of behavior to ultimately discourage all future products and business practices that wring all the data out of us... anything that we can unknowingly give! Or at least increase transparency on these practices!

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9 minutes ago, nslay said:

That's 120 quid (slang like 'bucks' for us non-Brit readers, but for the British pound) plus extremely valuable personal/usage data.

What it will do is set an example to Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo that it's OK to use the game platform to snoop on users for valuable personal/usage data and maybe even inject advertisements too (because hey, Google is not actually a tech company, it's an ad company that baits you with really cool tech!). Microsoft is already trying to be like Google with, for example, all the telemetry its harvests in Windows 10! My only hope is that EU or US cracks down on this sort of behavior to ultimately discourage all future products and business practices that wring all the data out of us... anything that we can unknowingly give! Or at least increase transparency on these practices!

Who knows what the loot box federal investigation could dig up, it could be literally anything that the tech industry can monopolize.

(Like the advertisements that you guys keep bringing up.)

We as players won't know if privacy violations are indeed in the pool for presumably at least two to four years. (Or it could all be settled under the rug.)

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Short answer : I don’t give a crap or care about this stadia nonsense.

It’s better if you just build your own PC or buy a console because you are paying Internet service + Stadia subscription instead of just internet service only and don’t forget about the input lag (Good luck playing CS:GO, Overwatch, or TF2 with >20 ms input lag). Because Stadia is a cloud based gaming platform your FPS is capped at 60 fps and 120 fps which is a big No for a high refresh rate monitor user like me.

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14 minutes ago, (NSW)MasterDarkwingz said:

Who knows what the loot box federal investigation could dig up, it could be literally anything that the tech industry can monopolize.

(Like the advertisements that you guys keep bringing up.)

We as players won't know if privacy violations are indeed in the pool for presumably at least two to four years. (Or it could all be settled under the rug.)

If Google is making a product, you better believe there is something about you, your habits, and/or your usage of this product that they believe will make them lots of money... and oh, when they achieve market dominance, why not also advertise on this remote streaming device that you have no control over? I could be wrong, but this is Google we're talking about.

I mean, it's like what happening with the recent Chrome plugin API revisions they're proposing... Chrome has market dominance right? So, no harm in neutering the plugin API that allows ad blockers to, well... block ads, right? What are you going to do about it? Change browsers? Pfft, haha! You love Chrome!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I already Pre-Ordered Stadia, its cheaper than buying a console or updating a gaming pc. All I need is a good internet connection? That's easier done than said lmao. It's $129 and you can either play for free or pay a subscription and get a bunch of perks along with it. I noticed a lot of comments, but it seems that no one actually watched the video where Google actually explains everything, there is even a 14 minute version where it highlights the major points made by Google. They hired a lot of the people that were laid off by Microsoft Xbox and Sony Playstation, so its not like the developing team was a bunch of Google employees they picked from other departments and said, "make us a gaming platform." They actually had people who aided in making other gaming platforms and said, "we want one too." I have already read up on it and did my research, you guys can go ahead and doubt, waiting for the results after launch. I'll be enjoying all my games through a browser with no hassles on my graphics card or wallet. XP

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On 2019-06-09 at 7:16 PM, (NSW)MasterDarkwingz said:

Not something you'll want to be doing in 2020, when literally every company in the world will want to be making history by winning E3 2020.

E3 is just an e-peen contest (the ultimate e-peen contest?) between the major studios. Not something DE needs to be concerned about.

 

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On 2019-06-12 at 11:43 PM, nslay said:

That's 120 quid (slang like 'bucks' for us non-Brit readers, but for the British pound) plus extremely valuable personal/usage data.

What it will do is set an example to Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo that it's OK to use the game platform to snoop on users for valuable personal/usage data and maybe even inject advertisements too (because hey, Google is not actually a tech company, it's an ad company that baits you with really cool tech!). Microsoft is already trying to be like Google with, for example, all the telemetry its harvests in Windows 10! My only hope is that EU or US cracks down on this sort of behavior to ultimately discourage all future products and business practices that wring all the data out of us... anything that we can unknowingly give! Or at least increase transparency on these practices!

Well gullible casuals who already use smart speakers and other smart gadgets probably won't care...or even realise.

Like I said, Stadia will likely have a fairly wide appeal to techies, who are not necessarily hardcore / experienced gamers. For those of us who love our PCs and/or consoles...probably not.

If nothing else, console users will be able to look down on them and call them "Stadia Peasants". :laugh:

 

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2 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Well gullible casuals who already use smart speakers and other smart gadgets probably won't care...or even realise.

Like I said, Stadia will likely have a fairly wide appeal to techies, who are not necessarily hardcore / experienced gamers. For those of us who love our PCs and/or consoles...probably not.

If nothing else, console users will be able to look down on them and call them "Stadia Peasants". :laugh:

 

Hey now, let's not forget about ordinary lightbulbs. These have firmware now!

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/20/ge_lightblulb_reset/

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