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Do you people really want a endgame?

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23 hours ago, Paradoxity said:

But remember, pointing out the wolf was terrible design just means you can't handle challenge! /dodgy

God I hated that chump. I still hate that chump. at least I haven't seen his stupid ass since the event ended. 

Oh, I know, I know.  "Challenge" in game anymore is rated by how many times you die and the damage the enemy does.  Neither players nor devs seem capable of adding an actual challenge to games anymore.  Ive been over this argument ad infinitum on the Armored Warfare forums.  Saying things along the lines of AI aim botting does not equal challenge.  Id rather have smarter AI that DONT sit and spin their thin armor to my gun, making them easy as pie to kill, but having an aim bot vs an AI that doesnt shoot as well, and doesnt move as much, but forces me as a player to figure out how to deal with it.  Just throwing more tanks at us, to the point we cant even clear an objective, or giving them so many hit points we cant kill them fast enough, or making them spawn 360 degrees around us while we have to sit exposed on a cap circle does not make for a challenge, that just makes for stupidity. 

A Challenge was when I would play the old MoHAA in the Trondheim mission and I would try to sneak and complete with the mission without being detected.  Devoid of any bullS#&$ mechanics, it was just a fun enjoyable little challenge.  I would later try the same thing during the mission to steal the STG-44.  Another challenge was when my uncle, dad and I would play Company of Heroes against AI and were fighting like mad to simply survive long enough to build up our forces and start counter attacking.  Challenge was when my uncle and I flew in IL-2 FB 1946 and would take our 2 planes against 4 or 8 enemies.  I rate challenge on how many braincells I have to commit to completing said event or mission.  Not just holding LMB while being hopelessly swarmed and surrounded by tactical nuke firing enemies that defy logic, reason and reality, as many games do anymore. Wolf was this last part to be sure.  He was not fun, he was not enjoyable and the only time he really killed me was when I was in Marduk in the void and the damage was spiked to stupid 1 shot levels.  Otherwise, it was just a chore...

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22 hours ago, moostar95 said:

Pso 2 is next year, im fully jumping ship if this game doesn't sort things out. im not leaving but by the time of this year, im now a causal player. I only log on to do elite alerts because ok challenge, or to get my daily. 

PSO 2?  Whats that?  Looking at a little random clip on Google it looks like a robot/anime gun and sword RPG.  Though it threw me for a loop when they showed IJN Yamato in video.....

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, 844448 said:

smarter AI would mean more advanced equipments such as more variation of grenades and flanking which I don't think having smarter AI would help when you press 4 most of the time to clear them

Unless they tone down all the horseS#&$ 1 shot room clearing nukes.  Start by putting the brakes on the endless scaling, then tone down said scaling to a level where zone wide clearing nukes are not required to actually play the game.  Nerf and cap all abilities and increases.  We dont need 200% Crit chance Rivens with 130% more damage along with our heap of other weapons power creeping us endlessly.  Let abilities be powerful, but make them a tool to be used in conjuction with gun play and parkour, while enemies do much the same, using cover, abilities, movement of their own. Give Grineer Jet packs, give Corpus Hover boards or w/e...idk, but this game could be really amazing in terms of its combat if DE really wanted it to be.  One can only stand in a room around a air support terminal pressing 2 for so long before that bores them to tears.....something tells me alot more players are at that point than will admit.....the zombie horde press 2 to clear zone shooter is kinda stale and boring....throwing in 14 1/2 tons more grind to the same basic, boring gameplay loop isnt going to do it.

Edited by KnightCole

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5 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

PSO 2?  Whats that?  Looking at a little random clip on Google it looks like a robot/anime gun and sword RPG.  Though it threw me for a loop when they showed IJN Yamato in video.....

Phantasy Star Online 2, the sequel that never got localised (until now) because SEGA looked at all the BS the players pulled in the previous games and said "sod this" - or so the people more invested in the series have told me. That aside these two games are in entirely different genres to begin with - WF is a "run and gun" wave shooter while PSO2 is more or less related to the "Monster Hunter" type of games. (That's incidentally a bizarro phantasm of the Yamato semi-accidentally conjured up by the first villain, who happens to be a colossal military nerd, of that particular story arc; same arc later features a giant sphinx-riding Statue of Liberty in Las Vegas... it was a pretty weird episode all around.)

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22 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

Oh, I know, I know.  "Challenge" in game anymore is rated by how many times you die and the damage the enemy does.  Neither players nor devs seem capable of adding an actual challenge to games anymore.  Ive been over this argument ad infinitum on the Armored Warfare forums.  Saying things along the lines of AI aim botting does not equal challenge.  Id rather have smarter AI that DONT sit and spin their thin armor to my gun, making them easy as pie to kill, but having an aim bot vs an AI that doesnt shoot as well, and doesnt move as much, but forces me as a player to figure out how to deal with it.  Just throwing more tanks at us, to the point we cant even clear an objective, or giving them so many hit points we cant kill them fast enough, or making them spawn 360 degrees around us while we have to sit exposed on a cap circle does not make for a challenge, that just makes for stupidity. 

A Challenge was when I would play the old MoHAA in the Trondheim mission and I would try to sneak and complete with the mission without being detected.  Devoid of any bullS#&$ mechanics, it was just a fun enjoyable little challenge.  I would later try the same thing during the mission to steal the STG-44.  Another challenge was when my uncle, dad and I would play Company of Heroes against AI and were fighting like mad to simply survive long enough to build up our forces and start counter attacking.  Challenge was when my uncle and I flew in IL-2 FB 1946 and would take our 2 planes against 4 or 8 enemies.  I rate challenge on how many braincells I have to commit to completing said event or mission.  Not just holding LMB while being hopelessly swarmed and surrounded by tactical nuke firing enemies that defy logic, reason and reality, as many games do anymore. Wolf was this last part to be sure.  He was not fun, he was not enjoyable and the only time he really killed me was when I was in Marduk in the void and the damage was spiked to stupid 1 shot levels.  Otherwise, it was just a chore...

That was not even wolf that did most of the damage, the true damage dealers were his lil pyromaniac buddies that would refuse to be reduced bellow 1 health untill wolf dies.

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1 minute ago, TrixieLulamoonn said:

That was not even wolf that did most of the damage, the true damage dealers were his lil pyromaniac buddies that would refuse to be reduced bellow 1 health untill wolf dies.

Yeah, that whole fight was just terribly designed.

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If what we have now is considered not endgame. Then yes.

It would be nice to have some properly scaled content that isn't locked behind or linked to any syndicate grinds. It would be nice to finally be done farming idiotic resource tiers. The power creep needs to end at some point and so does the grind. 

6 years is enough grinding. It's time for the payoff now.

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1 hour ago, KnightCole said:

Unless they tone down all the horseS#&$ 1 shot room clearing nukes.  Start by putting the brakes on the endless scaling, then tone down said scaling to a level where zone wide clearing nukes are not required to actually play the game.  Nerf and cap all abilities and increases.  We dont need 200% Crit chance Rivens with 130% more damage along with our heap of other weapons power creeping us endlessly.  Let abilities be powerful, but make them a tool to be used in conjuction with gun play and parkour, while enemies do much the same, using cover, abilities, movement of their own. Give Grineer Jet packs, give Corpus Hover boards or w/e...idk, but this game could be really amazing in terms of its combat if DE really wanted it to be.  One can only stand in a room around a air support terminal pressing 2 for so long before that bores them to tears.....something tells me alot more players are at that point than will admit.....the zombie horde press 2 to clear zone shooter is kinda stale and boring....throwing in 14 1/2 tons more grind to the same basic, boring gameplay loop isnt going to do it.

putting cool downs on room nuking abilities could be an option. Or put in restrictions that HAVE to be met to even use said nukes. Stuff that takes time to build up to. 

Maimquinox i hate it but it's on the right track. Slowly builds up dmg before you can even do a big nuke. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, IIDMOII said:

If what we have now is considered not endgame. Then yes.

It would be nice to have some properly scaled content that isn't locked behind or linked to any syndicate grinds. It would be nice to finally be done farming idiotic resource tiers. The power creep needs to end at some point and so does the grind. 

6 years is enough grinding. It's time for the payoff now.

would be nice if we had content that couldn't just be bypassed by "look at my big number equipment." 

Edited by (PS4)chibitonka

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2 hours ago, Viridias said:

Phantasy Star Online 2, the sequel that never got localised (until now) because SEGA looked at all the BS the players pulled in the previous games and said "sod this" - or so the people more invested in the series have told me. That aside these two games are in entirely different genres to begin with - WF is a "run and gun" wave shooter while PSO2 is more or less related to the "Monster Hunter" type of games. (That's incidentally a bizarro phantasm of the Yamato semi-accidentally conjured up by the first villain, who happens to be a colossal military nerd, of that particular story arc; same arc later features a giant sphinx-riding Statue of Liberty in Las Vegas... it was a pretty weird episode all around.)

DE turned its back on listening to vets. I had my limits and finding another game worth my time. You can keep defending de and their bad business practices all you want. 

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when a game turns it's back on it's vets it's doomed to fail sooner. Not all players are new players, all players do become vets at some point though.

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42 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

DE turned its back on listening to vets. I had my limits and finding another game worth my time. You can keep defending de and their bad business practices all you want. 

Pretty sure you quoted the wrong post there, brah.

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i dont' mind if something is hard, but its got to be hard for the right reasons, not hard due to poor design.

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one thing that an endgame needs as incentive is some way to incrementally improve your gear, the more you play it, the more you get items to improve your stuff to go even longer further, etc, give us more stuff to earn, not just cosmetic stuff, but some actual practical stuff we could use.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Viridias said:

Pretty sure you quoted the wrong post there, brah.

Nope, every post I said is on point. I still don't care for endgame when DE half does warframe reworks that isn't Pablo.  But endgame is something players want but are NOT ready for. DE can't make up their minds anymore and took the easy way out and milk the less hardcore players with brain dead easy content. 

Edited by moostar95
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7 hours ago, KnightCole said:

Oh, I know, I know.  "Challenge" in game anymore is rated by how many times you die and the damage the enemy does.  Neither players nor devs seem capable of adding an actual challenge to games anymore.  Ive been over this argument ad infinitum on the Armored Warfare forums.  Saying things along the lines of AI aim botting does not equal challenge.  Id rather have smarter AI that DONT sit and spin their thin armor to my gun, making them easy as pie to kill, but having an aim bot vs an AI that doesnt shoot as well, and doesnt move as much, but forces me as a player to figure out how to deal with it.  Just throwing more tanks at us, to the point we cant even clear an objective, or giving them so many hit points we cant kill them fast enough, or making them spawn 360 degrees around us while we have to sit exposed on a cap circle does not make for a challenge, that just makes for stupidity. 

Nobody say we have to sit exposed right? I met wolf without any tank warframe and I have to go all out on my maneuver, dodging the molotovs and the wolf himself. We're not blessed with this movement for no reason because if I want to sit exposed I can play another game

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7 hours ago, KnightCole said:

Unless they tone down all the horseS#&$ 1 shot room clearing nukes.  Start by putting the brakes on the endless scaling, then tone down said scaling to a level where zone wide clearing nukes are not required to actually play the game.  Nerf and cap all abilities and increases.  We dont need 200% Crit chance Rivens with 130% more damage along with our heap of other weapons power creeping us endlessly.  Let abilities be powerful, but make them a tool to be used in conjuction with gun play and parkour, while enemies do much the same, using cover, abilities, movement of their own. Give Grineer Jet packs, give Corpus Hover boards or w/e...idk, but this game could be really amazing in terms of its combat if DE really wanted it to be.  One can only stand in a room around a air support terminal pressing 2 for so long before that bores them to tears.....something tells me alot more players are at that point than will admit.....the zombie horde press 2 to clear zone shooter is kinda stale and boring....throwing in 14 1/2 tons more grind to the same basic, boring gameplay loop isnt going to do it.

 

5 hours ago, moostar95 said:

DE turned its back on listening to vets. I had my limits and finding another game worth my time. You can keep defending de and their bad business practices all you want. 

If we want something called endgame, these threads might help if you agree with these

And thinking about it, we actually have something close to endgame like eidolon or orb fight, but we never want to say it's the endgame so better improve the rewards instead of making things that will make the forum filled with tears from players that scream it's too hard and needs nerf

 

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-06-12 at 7:48 PM, 844448 said:

 

If we want something called endgame, these threads might help if you agree with these

And thinking about it, we actually have something close to endgame like eidolon or orb fight, but we never want to say it's the endgame so better improve the rewards instead of making things that will make the forum filled with tears from players that scream it's too hard and needs nerf

 

I love seeing these types of threads. But the reason why I made this thread is because the community can't decide if they really want one. So many cry NERFS due to their spamming strategy not working and having a roadblock to overcome. No one knows what they want. 

Edited by moostar95

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-06-10 at 10:03 AM, angias said:

It was just a build that was posted high on warframe builder.

I would mod it for radiation or gas, if i don't delete it before.

 

By casually i though he wasn't even trying. That mean no buff and no element synergy.

 

So far the only advantages melee has over other weapon class is hitting multiple target, maiming strike, condition overload and combo buff stack. 

I haven't fully tried the memeing build, that would need that i relocate some keys so i can spam it without breaking my fingers and the more i hear of it the less appealing it become.

 

Change my mind: Meta is the new casual.

Ok joke aside. I know how mod stack and multiplication works, for non melee weapons red-crit build are simply trash.

Understood, though my offer still stands. People know me as the guy that will guarantee at least a 50% increase in weapon performance. I've come super close to perfecting the true ttk formula, not those silly incorrect and hilariously misleading dps simulators you'll see youtubers and discord heads submit as ttk calculators. The true formula to ttk is MASSIVE and nigh impossible to put into a mathematical equation.

Melee also has the unique advantage of stances, which can multiply the damage of melee even further than the build itself as well as provide unique effects like status, knockdown and movement. Also, melee had the advantage of finishers, which ignore armor and provide immunity as well as massive damage. It also had stealth, although Stealth Damage has been nerfed severely with HIDDEN ninja nerfs by DE that were never published and should be redacted. For example, after Octavia's release,  stealth was made to be additive to crit damage, not affected by the crit chance multiplier, so if you have a weapon with 4x crit and 100% crit chance, it'll deal 4x damage. Stealth will deal 11x. It use to be flat 8x TOTAL damage, NOT affected by crit. It also is weaker if your weapon isn't fully leveled up. Mostly likely because of Adaro stealth level ups. Also,  channeling damage is additive to combo counter.

Fyi, melee dps was actually fine before shadow debt, but players just didn't know how to build and DE didn't know how to balance.

These advantages should not be disregarded. It's not like you're NOT using it lol, if it's in your build, it should be considered.

Edited by (PS4)Crixus044

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On 2019-06-12 at 10:44 PM, 844448 said:

Nobody say we have to sit exposed right? I met wolf without any tank warframe and I have to go all out on my maneuver, dodging the molotovs and the wolf himself. We're not blessed with this movement for no reason because if I want to sit exposed I can play another game

Maybe not in this game.  We do get our movement, which helps sorta.  THough that post was for Armored Warfare, where we definitely must sit exposed.  Just their idea of 'challenge'...

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I don't mean to be a spoilsport here, but WF's game design is fundamentally like an escalator that encourages you to spend money, or spend time, then to get off at the top and move on. The veteran that has "lots of stuff" maybe not everything, but lots of stuff, has either spent the money and injected that into the business model, or spent the time to pad the population of the game, and has injected that into the business. Once you cross into "endgame" I seriously believe you are expected to get off of the WF ride for a while.

People keep complaining about warframe needing an "end game" but complaining about the end game IS the end game. I'm not even convinced it was a business model that they intended, truthfully, it's just how the state of permanent betas sort of wound up being from the era Warframe was being built in. They quite literally cannot "finish" the game, or the business model doesn't work. If you stick around, you complain about things that you gloss over in the excitement of the leveling/collecting process. Those complaints can start driving people away, then when people start leaving en masse, the entire game can collapse in weeks. Just look at Apex Legends. People were super hyped for this "new" game and it got tons of amazing marketing, they spent millions paying people to play it on youtube, twitch etc to create the illusion that it was awesome, but just weeks later when the spending stopped, everyone bailed. It's already over for Apex, and I never even downloaded it, like many others because the letters E and A were attached to it.

DE is just trying to ride this wave of accidental success as far as it can take them, but their secret hope is that the vets will leave quietly, decreasing the toxicity and the number of posts like this and making room for new players to become vets and keep the escalator moving people from n00b, to mid, to pro, to break, and keep the churn happening. They know that as a vet, you'll come back and check in from time to time to catch up on the content that happened in between, so they're not saying "GG, don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out!". But you're INTENDED to leave for as long as you need to. Play the new content, then do DE and the rest of the players a solid and go away, until there's more new content instead of filling the forums full of gripes about "end game" like I do. This IS the END GAME, and it can't be any other way for this model.

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By the time you reach the point in this game where you can say there isn’t much left to work for, you’ve already eaten through quite a large amount of content. Why not just say “thank you” and step away from the dinner table for a while?

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3 hours ago, M3tallius said:

I don't mean to be a spoilsport here, but WF's game design is fundamentally like an escalator that encourages you to spend money, or spend time, then to get off at the top and move on. The veteran that has "lots of stuff" maybe not everything, but lots of stuff, has either spent the money and injected that into the business model, or spent the time to pad the population of the game, and has injected that into the business. Once you cross into "endgame" I seriously believe you are expected to get off of the WF ride for a while.

People keep complaining about warframe needing an "end game" but complaining about the end game IS the end game. I'm not even convinced it was a business model that they intended, truthfully, it's just how the state of permanent betas sort of wound up being from the era Warframe was being built in. They quite literally cannot "finish" the game, or the business model doesn't work. If you stick around, you complain about things that you gloss over in the excitement of the leveling/collecting process. Those complaints can start driving people away, then when people start leaving en masse, the entire game can collapse in weeks. Just look at Apex Legends. People were super hyped for this "new" game and it got tons of amazing marketing, they spent millions paying people to play it on youtube, twitch etc to create the illusion that it was awesome, but just weeks later when the spending stopped, everyone bailed. It's already over for Apex, and I never even downloaded it, like many others because the letters E and A were attached to it.

DE is just trying to ride this wave of accidental success as far as it can take them, but their secret hope is that the vets will leave quietly, decreasing the toxicity and the number of posts like this and making room for new players to become vets and keep the escalator moving people from n00b, to mid, to pro, to break, and keep the churn happening. They know that as a vet, you'll come back and check in from time to time to catch up on the content that happened in between, so they're not saying "GG, don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out!". But you're INTENDED to leave for as long as you need to. Play the new content, then do DE and the rest of the players a solid and go away, until there's more new content instead of filling the forums full of gripes about "end game" like I do. This IS the END GAME, and it can't be any other way for this model.

As far as I know, the escalator is always made in pairs so if you're on the top, you can always go down and meet people below and go up together if you want

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