The New War Dialema

[(NSW)Riophilip]

Salutations, DE. What I intend to tell you now cannot exactly be classified as a request for help, but rather a suggestion. I understand that you are working on the quest "The New War". I, as well as the majority of your players, understand that crafting the weapon "Paracesis" will undoubtedly be a prerequisite in said quest. However, the crafting of the Paracesis is a serious problem, one that I sincerely hope you will look into. The problem is the crafting requirements. One thousand Orokin Ducats, five eidolon shards, fifteen Orokin cells, and a Galentine sword. While I and many others believe these requirements to be beyond extreme, the greatest fear that sweeps your players is the level of mastery rank required in order to build the weapon. The level is 10 (Ten). This horrified many players. 10. The average rank of a player when completing this is quest is 7(seven). This sudden jump makes no logical sense. We sincerely (and humbly) request that you decrease the requirement on all platforms via the update that will bring "The New War". Logically, it is more beneficial for you, the DE company. By having such a high Rank necessary, you are only building resentment for you in the community and making it less likely that people will play your new quest as soon as possible and promote your material on social media etc.. Either way, you win. You are forcing many players to spend countless hours slaving away at endless collections of spy missions. Please, we believe you to be an incredible company, who never fails to disappoint. Please do not cause us this turmoil. We request that the requirement be decreased to 6 (six) or 7 (seven). Perhaps, if you are feeling generous, you could tone down the rest of the required materials as well. Please recall, this is beneficial financially to you. There really is no downside. Please take our request into deep consideration and please attempt to implement it - it would gain you a great amount of gratitude from your community.

Thank you for listening and considering my proposal,

Riophilip

Edited June 8, 2019 by (NSW)Riophilip
Mild Punctuation Error

[Dhrekr]

Dude, you are way overreacting.

I understand that the playerbase on NS has not had as much time as we on PC (it's a much newer platform), but... MR 10? That's a couple of months of playing with little stress. Sure, it takes some dedication, but it's hardly difficult nor long.

 

Also: spy missions? I mean, I like spy missions a lot, I use them to level up myself, but maybe your problem is that you don't know how to farm XP efficiently. High-level Defenses, or ESO, are really much much much more effective in racking up XP.

Give it a try. If you have reached MR7, there's enough low-costing Mastery fodder to bring you to MR 10 in a couple weeks.

[Loza03]

1: Speak for yourself. You use a lot of 'We' here, when you can only speak for yourself.

2: 

16 minutes ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

The average rank of a player when completing this is quest is 7(seven).

Evidence?

3: The requirements fit thematically, and force players to engage with a wide variety of content, including content that gets your Operator stronger. Considering how much backlash DE got for expecting people to have put investment into Operators prior to an Operator-centric quest, encouraging players to do so is not a bad idea.

[(NSW)Riophilip]

22 hours ago, Dhrekr said:

Dude, you are way overreacting.

I understand that the playerbase on NS has not had as much time as we on PC (it's a much newer platform), but... MR 10? That's a couple of months of playing with little stress. Sure, it takes some dedication, but it's hardly difficult nor long.

 

Also: spy missions? I mean, I like spy missions a lot, I use them to level up myself, but maybe your problem is that you don't know how to farm XP efficiently. High-level Defenses, or ESO, are really much much much more effective in racking up XP.

Give it a try. If you have reached MR7, there's enough low-costing Mastery fodder to bring you to MR 10 in a couple weeks.

Your arguments make sense, but I must digress. "A couple months"... I assume you devote much time to this game, but you must recall, there are many people who do not have nearly as much time. I ask this on behalf of them. Even so, I and many others have found the story of Warframe to be exceptional. The New War is likely to be the "epic conclusion" and is expected to be released in the July-August region. Us "casuals" as you might put it would like to enjoy this as soon as possible. You are correct, it is not difficult, but, be honest, would you rather do something productive in warframe or spend it grinding on exp missions? Furthermore, your argument that my leveling up is not efficient is objectionable. When quickly leveling up, one should a single weapon. Enlighten me on how one should survive 25(twenty-five) waves with not but a low-level, low-tier weapon? Recall, these people do not invest much time into the game. Their warframe cannot carry them through with expertly modded abilities. Some may not even have a warframe with any damaging abilities. (Loki, etc.) Squad members are not viable because, honestly, how many strangers are willing to go to twenty-five waves? The equinox strategy is so riddled with I problems I will not rebut it.

I detect a sense of annoyance in your voice, but please remember, this is a discussion, not an argument.

Thank you.

[(NSW)Riophilip]

23 hours ago, Loza03 said:

1: Speak for yourself. You use a lot of 'We' here, when you can only speak for yourself.

2: 

Evidence?

3: The requirements fit thematically, and force players to engage with a wide variety of content, including content that gets your Operator stronger. Considering how much backlash DE got for expecting people to have put investment into Operators prior to an Operator-centric quest, encouraging players to do so is not a bad idea.

Argument 1:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/230410/discussions/0/1742226629860643778/

etc.

Argument 2: You may scoff, but I am the proof. I am an average player; I don't devote my life to this game, but I know it well enough to solo the terralyst. If someone played as much as me, which is about average, they would find themselves in the same position. Therefore, I can safely say it is average. (It sounds like rubbish reasoning, but think about it) My second piece of proof, is unfortunately not something tangible. It is that I personally know 23(twenty-three) other people who have completed this quest at levels 6-8. I asked them just for you, do feel special.

Argument 3: Players should enjoy indulging into such content, not feel like it is work, this is a form of entertainment, after all. As for content that strengthens the operator, this is a valid point. However, doing so does not require exp grinding. Say you make a new amp, which can be done by fighting the terralyst a few times (which can be done with a random squad) this will only gain 3000 MR points at maximum. You need approx. 125,000 to get from rank 6 to 10. As for focus related empowering, this is most effectively done through brilliant eidolon shards - fighting said terralyst, which does not involve any ranking up.

Edited June 9, 2019 by (NSW)Riophilip

[TaylorsContraction]

I don't see a problem.  so people can't do the quest as soon as it is released,  and will have to fulfill some requirements beforehand.  That's perfectly normal.

[Dhrekr]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

Your arguments make sense, but I must digress

Disagree, not digress.

1 hour ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

"A couple months"... I assume you devote much time to this game, but you must recall, there are many people who do not have nearly as much time

Let me rephrase. "A couple months for people who don't have much time but know what they are doing".

1 hour ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

Us "casuals" as you might put it would like to enjoy this as soon as possible

Good. Fortunately for you, it is not difficult.

1 hour ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

You are correct, it is not difficult, but, be honest, would you rather do something productive in warframe or spend it grinding on exp missions?

Yesterday I put formas on all of my weapons and went to do a long Lith Survival. That was "productive" as I got a lot of nice Prime pieces. I also completely levelled up the weapons.

It's not difficult to get loads of XP while doing something fun.

1 hour ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

When quickly leveling up, one should a single weapon. Enlighten me on how one should survive 25(twenty-five) waves with not but a low-level, low-tier weapon?

If you find it difficult, then take one powerful (maxed) weapon, two underlevelled weapons, and enjoy seeing all the XP flowing into your weapons while you don't even use them.

1 hour ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

Some may not even have a warframe with any damaging abilities. (Loki, etc.)

Point being? Irradiating Disarm Loki is a powerful build and is very fun in melee-oriented survivals.

1 hour ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

Squad members are not viable because, honestly, how many strangers are willing to go to twenty-five waves?

Me, and many others.

Why is twenty-five such an unreasonable goal? That Lith Survival I mentioned? Done in Public, lasted one hour and five minutes.

 

Also, if strangers are so unreasonable and mysterious for you, get yourself a clan. Levelling-up-while-having-fun is one of the main activities of my clan.

 

1 hour ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

Recall, these people do not invest much time into the game. Their warframe cannot carry them through with expertly modded abilities

Now, this is the real crux of the issue.

Should an "endgame-ish" Quest (such as New War) be available for underpowered players?

The answer, given quite clearly by DE, is "no". You are expected to have achieved a minimum level of literacy and competency. You are expected to be able to beat mid-tier content.

And I am being quite generous with this "mid-level" estimation. MR 10 is rather low and easily achieved. Now, we all agree that Mastery Rank is not a particularly good measure of skill, and all of that, but... yeah.

As you agreed, it is not difficult. Good, we agree. I suggest that you pull yourself together and get to MR 10.

[kgabor]

I've read your title as 'The New War Diarrhea'... Sleeping is overrated and for the weak after all.

[(NSW)Riophilip]

Thank you, everyone, for sharing your ideas and opinions and giving me a good debate. However, I would like to close this discussion with three final points.

First-

3 hours ago, Dhrekr said:

Disagree, not digress.

 

Thank you for your correction - please excuse my blunder.

 

Second - I would go on rebutting your arguments, again and again, but this would only lead to you rebutting mine. I know what you would respond with each time, and I found that your argument would eventually boil down to this: 

 

Warframe is a grinding game

 

Correct. That is absolutely correct. However, the story should not require any grinding. The story is the game. No grinding should be necessary in simply playing the story. Those who grind excessively should be rewarded, but not with the story. They should be rewarded with powerful weapons, frames, things that are simply conveniences. Grinding should bring boons, not grinding should not be a punishment. The story (the game) should not be a reward. Conveniences should be the reward.

 

Third and finally - 

 

This is not about the players. For DE, this is about the money. That is their main goal. Not satisfying customers. It is the same with all companies. They only work to satisfy customers because that will get them more money.  And I have stated in my first post how doing this would be financially beneficial. Remember, I am arguing about

 

Why DE should do it.

 

Not why it should be done.

 

Thank you.

[(NSW)Riophilip]

3 hours ago, kgabor said:

I've read your title as 'The New War Diarrhea'... Sleeping is overrated and for the weak after all.

boi

[Loza03]

4 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

Argument 1:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/230410/discussions/0/1742226629860643778/

You've linked me to a place with substantial amount of disagreement. Even outside of the plethora of people who agree with me and not you, you've just proven my point that you don't speak for everyone.

4 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

Argument 2: You may scoff, but I am the proof. I am an average player; I don't devote my life to this game, but I know it well enough to solo the terralyst. If someone played as much as me, which is about average, they would find themselves in the same position. Therefore, I can safely say it is average. (It sounds like rubbish reasoning, but think about it) My second piece of proof, is unfortunately not something tangible. It is that I personally know 23(twenty-three) other people who have completed this quest at levels 6-8. I asked them just for you, do feel special.

No, you're not the proof, and neither are the other people you've asked. That's not how averages work. It sounds like rubbish reasoning because it is. I would also describe myself as 'not devoting my life to this game', yet I was comfortably MR 15 or beyond (I can't remember exactly) when I beat Chimera. Same for a friend of mine. Does that mean that the average MR is 15? No, because we're not average either.

You asked 23 people out of literally tens of thousands who play this game actively on Steam alone, today alone. You also only asked within your own social group. I've done statistics, and whilst I'm not very good at them, even I know that's a very poor sample, especially compared to the people who made the decision, who don't even need a sample, as they have metrics from the entire population who play Warframe.

4 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

Argument 3: Players should enjoy indulging into such content, not feel like it is work, this is a form of entertainment, after all. As for content that strengthens the operator, this is a valid point. However, doing so does not require exp grinding. Say you make a new amp, which can be done by fighting the terralyst a few times (which can be done with a random squad) this will only gain 3000 MR points at maximum. You need approx. 125,000 to get from rank 6 to 10. As for focus related empowering, this is most effectively done through brilliant eidolon shards - fighting said terralyst, which does not involve any ranking up.

In order to hit MR 10 you need 250,000 MR points. On Nintendo Switch, you presently have access to 1,561,579 MR points. You need to have acquired approximately 1/6th of the available mastery for your platform, available through a total of 13 different sources in order to build Paracesis. Considering that the main point of a looter game is to acquire as many items as possible, 1/6th of the available content is perfectly reasonable, considering how many sources you have to get this by the time you have reached Chimera.

Furthermore, you are required to be MR 5 for the War Within, which is the second Cinematic quest in the story. Considering that the New War will be the fourth, MR 10 (twice that) seems fairly reasonable.

And, one last point: we don't even know if Paracesis is a requirement for the New War at all. Bear in mind we already have content locked behind Chimera, which does not require Paracesis to access - the Ropalolyst.

[(NSW)Riophilip]

I'm sorry, Loza03, but Riophilip has declared this discussion complete.

To speak with Riophilip, please contact: xxRiophilipxx@gmail.com

Thank You

THIS IS A COMPUTER GENERATED MESSAGE, PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO RESPOND

Edited June 9, 2019 by (NSW)Riophilip
Bot accidentally programmed to provide incorrect message

[Dhrekr]

6 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

However, the story should not require any grinding.

You are, in one word, wrong.

And that's not my opinion. It's DE's opinion.

 

But I do truly despise the armchair philosophers who, knowing full well the weakeness of their arguments, have to mask their wishes by pretending that actually they are only thinking of the financial wellbeing of a company. "I think that DE would gain much money by - what a coincidence - changing their game in a way that benefits me. Oh well."

[(NSW)Riophilip]

3 hours ago, Dhrekr said:

You are, in one word, wrong.

And that's not my opinion. It's DE's opinion.

 

But I do truly despise the armchair philosophers who, knowing full well the weakeness of their arguments, have to mask their wishes by pretending that actually they are only thinking of the financial wellbeing of a company. "I think that DE would gain much money by - what a coincidence - changing their game in a way that benefits me. Oh well."

Hi, I turned the bot off just to respond to this. That's why I'm suggesting it. It benefits them, It benefits me and, maybe it doesn't benefit you, but it doesn't harm you either. And anyway,

"Weaknesses"? I think that should be granted to you, friend. Your arguments are riddled, but I take not the time to rebut them, because... (read my "final argument again)

For instance,

10 hours ago, Loza03 said:

You've linked me to a place with substantial amount of disagreement. Even outside of the plethora of people who agree with me and not you, you've just proven my point that you don't speak for everyone.

No, you're not the proof, and neither are the other people you've asked. That's not how averages work. It sounds like rubbish reasoning because it is. I would also describe myself as 'not devoting my life to this game', yet I was comfortably MR 15 or beyond (I can't remember exactly) when I beat Chimera. Same for a friend of mine. Does that mean that the average MR is 15? No, because we're not average either.

 

One, I didn't need to prove I spoke for everyone, that is obvious. I needed to prove I speak for more than one person. Context, Context

Two, yes I am. I am not looking for the average player, but rather the average player.

Don't bother rebutting, read my final argument.

(The bot is on again.)

[Loza03]

5 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

One, I didn't need to prove I spoke for everyone, that is obvious. I needed to prove I speak for more than one person. Context, Context

 

On ‎2019‎-‎06‎-‎08 at 1:38 PM, (NSW)Riophilip said:

This horrified many players

Alongside your constant use of 'We', this indicates you are at least talking about majority opinion, not the voices of two, which as far as I can tell, are the only two. Probably not (probability and all) but you are certainly not talking about the majority, but instead an incredibly small percentage of the playerbase. This is misleading and very poor form, as it's basically an appeal to authority where you are the authority (when you aren't). Realistically portray your feedback.

5 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

Two, yes I am. I am not looking for the average player, but rather the average player.

There's an appropriate quote for this. "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

What matters here is the actual average player - which is to say, the average progression speed of the average player, which DE can of course calculate with good accuracy as they have the entire population.

15 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

This is not about the players. For DE, this is about the money. That is their main goal. Not satisfying customers. It is the same with all companies. They only work to satisfy customers because that will get them more money.  And I have stated in my first post how doing this would be financially beneficial. Remember, I am arguing about

This is your 'final argument', so I'll refute that since you don't seem to want to refute any others. This change doesn't make DE any more money whatsoever. If anything, it makes them less, because one way to quickly get mastery ranks is to buy or rush the various sources to start levelling them to immediately get that MR. People playing the cinematic quests themselves doesn't make DE a penny. 

5 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

(The bot is on again.)

I don't particularly care if you want to hide behind a bot.

[(NSW)Riophilip]

I’m sorry, Loza03, but Riophilip has declared this discussion complete.

To speak with Riophilip, please contact: xxRiophilipxx@gmail.com

Thank You

THIS IS A COMPUTER GENERATED MESSAGE, PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO RESPOND.

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[(NSW)Riophilip]

I tire of your lackluster arguments. They are riddled with fallacies, innacuracies, inability to percieve, and general lack of information.

I gave my final argument above, however, this,

THIS is my coup de grace.

It doesn't matter what I say. It doesn't matter what you say. What matters, is what DE says.

This suggestion wasn't put in the forums first. Rather, it was originally sent to the company themselves. And it was DESteve, in fact, who said he thought it "...wasn't a bad idea". He also said he would take it into consideration. Only after that did he recommend I put it in the forums.

That is why it is here. Not for your personal, unnaturally enraged slander.

Good Day.

This is the finale.

[Loza03]

3 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

I tire of your lackluster arguments. They are riddled with fallacies, innacuracies, inability to percieve, and general lack of information.

You keep making statements yet refuse to back them up.

3 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

It doesn't matter what I say. It doesn't matter what you say. What matters, is what DE says.

And DE made Paracesis require MR 10.

3 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

And it was DESteve, in fact, who said he thought it "...wasn't a bad idea". He also said he would take it into consideration.

He takes a lot of stuff into consideration. That doesn't mean DE winds up doing it.

3 hours ago, (NSW)Riophilip said:

Only after that did he recommend I put it in the forums.

That is why it is here. Not for your personal, unnaturally enraged slander.

Actually, discussion is exactly the reason Steve would suggest to put it here. In the event that he is monitoring it, one thing he would be monitoring is the reaction to that idea. Definition of the term 'Forum':

forum

/ˈfɔːrəm/

noun

noun: forum; plural noun: forums; plural noun: fora

1. 1.

   a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

The whole purpose of the forum is to exchange ideas. That does not mean you will get a positive reaction to those ideas.

[(NSW)Riophilip]

I'm sorry, Lazo03, but Riophilip has declared this discussion complete.

To speak with Riophilip, please contact: xxRiophilipxx@gmail.com

Thank You

THIS IS A COMPUTER GENERATED MESSAGE, PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO RESPOND.

WARNING: AFTER THREE RESPONSES I WILL REFRAIN FROM REPLYING. THIS IS THE THIRD MESSAGE - I WILL NO LONGER RESPOND.

 

[(XBOX)LonelyRanker]

On 2019-06-09 at 6:44 AM, (NSW)Riophilip said:

Your arguments make sense, but I must digress. "A couple months"... I assume you devote much time to this game, but you must recall, there are many people who do not have nearly as much time. I ask this on behalf of them. Even so, I and many others have found the story of Warframe to be exceptional. The New War is likely to be the "epic conclusion" and is expected to be released in the July-August region. Us "casuals" as you might put it would like to enjoy this as soon as possible. You are correct, it is not difficult, but, be honest, would you rather do something productive in warframe or spend it grinding on exp missions? Furthermore, your argument that my leveling up is not efficient is objectionable. When quickly leveling up, one should a single weapon. Enlighten me on how one should survive 25(twenty-five) waves with not but a low-level, low-tier weapon? Recall, these people do not invest much time into the game. Their warframe cannot carry them through with expertly modded abilities. Some may not even have a warframe with any damaging abilities. (Loki, etc.) Squad members are not viable because, honestly, how many strangers are willing to go to twenty-five waves? The equinox strategy is so riddled with I problems I will not rebut it.

I detect a sense of annoyance in your voice, but please remember, this is a discussion, not an argument.

Thank you.

listen, ima be honest with you, mr 10? currently that achievable in 2 weeks assuming you play 1-4 hours a day, thats about 14 days or so, its doable in 10 if you have someone carry you, that man saying it takes a few months is if your on and off the game, currently, for anyone mr grinding, you can hit 15 without any outside help (aside from trade chat for slots bc obviously) in about a month to a month in a half if your playing casually or doing side stuff, after 15 you hit a wall for most players due to by that point all easy and fast in under a hour grinds are done, assuming you were efficient, this excludes prime farming, however, if you include spending money or trading/relic farming for primes this can be done in literal just a day per mr if you hard grind, if you dont believe me? im on xbox one, i can boost literally anyone on there to mr 10 in 10 days from mr 0, without lending them plat, ive had to do that for 3 people ive met on streams so far in just this year alone so i promise its doable