*CONTAINS SPOILERS* I was highly disappointed in this part of the lore.

[NalleBob]

So.

I just played "The sacrifice" quest. You relive memories of the lore, and you are challenged to a game of "Komi" - Better known as Go, Weiqi or Baduk. I've played this game for 15 years, and I achieved 4-dan ranking in the game. The board was 5x5, which is fine, since it's just a videogame, normally the smallest board would be 9x9, but it's in the future and it's a video game, all was good and fine. But in the game, I was reading the situation, the player was "supposed to lose" apparently. In the situation, black holds a white stone in schicho (a ladder) which means, where ever white plays, the stone is already counted as dead, so it doesn't actually need to be captured. Left uppermost corner, white has potentially a living shape, he can make 2 eyes by placing a stone on the upper side of the board, thus making one ponnuki eye and one eye in the corner with the 2 stones in the shape; living shape - but, it was black's turn (my turn) so I thought, I can win the game easily by just playing at the vital point, and playing an eye removing tesuji, thus killing every single stone on the board that white has, but the game didn't let me do that, instead. The boy said "my father understands this game better than anyone" - followed by "Every game needs a sacrifice." And he placed the stone in something which we called in go terms self atari, a complete beginner move, that not even a player who has played for 2 weeks would do, forcing the opponent to capture that stone, and also making a living shape by capturing it, the very worst move possible on the entire board. I have to say, as a player of go, that alone was enough to ruin the entire questline for me, it was just so frustrating to be forced to witness that, I'd like you guys to fix that situation into an actual sacrifice, for example making a sacrifice move to remove the eyes, instead of basically giving your opponent a free prisoner while forcing his stones to live. Learn the rules please and fix it.

*ANGRY*

[NalleBob]

My suggestion is, instead of playing a self atari, just make it so the player plays the stone one tile up, thus at first looking like playing inside opponents territory and sacrificing it, but actually, removing the eyes and making the opponents shape a dead shape; that would make complete sense, it would be a sacrifice, and the player would win the won game.

[NalleBob]

Komi also is just a rule in Go, because black places the first stone on the goban, black has an advantage of a move, so white is given 6.5 / 7.5 point komi as a compensation for allowing black to play first. Effectively meaning, Black has to either conquer 7.5 / 8.5 points more on the board, or capture that many prisoners more than the white to win the game, the 0.5 is there only to prevent jigo, a draw.

[seprent]

24 minutes ago, NalleBob said:

Learn the rules please and fix it

well also bare in mind your currently being transformed into umbra using their 'finest' serums i'm pretty sure the transformation itself would be straining ones ability to think as it would your physical form he could be in pain or in another form unable to think clearly and thus makes a dumb move since at the end of only memory he was to have was that single burning one him killing his son 

i dont think this is a slip of oh DE doesn't know how a board game works and more of a you losing function or free thought since ballas can command umbra to stop needing us to intervene on it and im pretty sure the last move is forced upon you that could very well ballas forcing you to make that move as a show of he is now in his head 

Edited June 10, 2019 by seprent
autocorrect doesnt like ballas

[NalleBob]

Even so, white only holds 1 prisoner and 2 points (the eyes) while black has the rest of the board, thus black wins the game by points and prisoners. It was simply silly to watch for an experienced player, but you make a fair point, yet, it didn't make any sense as a "sacrifice".

[NalleBob]

The 6.5 / 7.5 komi would only apply on an even game between equal players on 19x19 board, 9x9 board and 13x13 board have 0.5 komi to prevent a jigo, but let's pretend white had 7.5 komi, black already held more than 7 points alone + 2 prisoners, thus winning the game even if white had an unfair advantage of that large komi.

[seprent]

Just now, NalleBob said:

Even so, white only holds 1 prisoner and 2 points (the eyes) while black has the rest of the board, thus black wins the game by points and prisoners. It was simply silly to watch for an experienced player, but you make a fair point, yet, it didn't make any sense as a "sacrifice".

it could also be he never played against ballas him having to ask him if he remembers this game and then giving a run down on how the game is played while that could just be to the player on who to play but it could also mean the serum effects memory also we dont know how often he played the game just that his son couldn't beat him  

on a side topic though id love a playable komi board ive been saying this since sacrifice came out 

[NalleBob]

5x5 board makes no sense, that's why smallest board is 9x9, as long as black plays tengen (middle of the board), there is absolutely no moves white can place on the board to make a living shape according to the rules of the game. I could demonstrate this quite easily on an internet goban to anyone. The quote "my father understands this game better than anyone" followed by self atari. Sometimes, you actually do play a self atari in the game, but it is only to remove the eyes and forcing your opponent into a dead shape, in that game, the self atari forced a prisoner for the opponent and also forced white to live in the corner, but the advantage was so large it didn't really even matter.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

My apologies, Komi-sensei, but I'm afraid this change would be too little of DE's concerns to be fixed immediately, if not in the near future, if not ever. Their resources are better left elsewhere.

Just imagine that Umbra actually sacrificed something. On a proper 9x9 board.

[NalleBob]

Thus my point; if black placed the stone one tile above the actual move he made in the game, it would actually have been a very very sensible sacrifice, it would actually had appeared to a beginner as if black was playing inside the opponent's territory, with the intention of white capturing it, but left only with one eye; a dead shape (a living group requires minimum of two eyes, which means, you cannot ultimately play inside the last eye and remove all the stones from the board, because, there would be two separate eyes, and if you tried placing inside one of them, it would be captured, and the other eye would still remain (a living shape).

[Loza03]

Do keep in mind that this is a video game, and the whole point is the whole sacrifice thing.

Having you be able to beat it kind of defeats the purpose of the scene.

[NalleBob]

I do keep that in mind, but, my suggestion is because, in my humble opinion, it would be a better scene if it actually was accurate, if some nerd like me starts digging into it and reveals it doesn't actually make sense.

[(PSN)JaysInc_]

I mean I guess.

[(PSN)AotoSatou14]