Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Why De Has Got It Priced Right


duenor
 Share

Recommended Posts

There's a lot of complaints about DE's pricing regarding weapons and warframes. There are two chief arguments regarding this; interestingly, they also happen to rather stoutly contradict the other.

 

The first argument asserts that DE is making this a game for only people with lots of disposable income. Most warframes cost between $15 and $25 MSRP, and most weapons between $10 and $20 MSRP. Rich people are just buying their way to victory, they protest, and the items are just too overpriced for the common man/woman to participate in this game. 

 

The second argument contends that DE is pricing itself out of being profitable because the prices are too high. Instead, everyone is simply crafting and playing for free; if the prices were lower, they claim, they'd buy more items and DE would make more money. 

 

I propose that DE is doing everything just right. 

 

The prices are high for a reason - so that there is a strong incentive to play, participate, cooperate, and make the hard work to gain items/resources/credits enjoyable. DE understands a key concept of the experience - that it's not the shiny gun or spiky new warframe that gets us to keep playing. It's the hard work, tense uncertainty, and sweet suspense at the end of each void mission that makes me want to keep playing, making friends, developing my game into a social community as much as a personal experience. 

 

If DE were to make the prices low, and everyone would just buy Nekros 5 minutes after it came out for 50 plat, or even 100, it would immediately kill the very thing that makes Warframe fun - the interdependency and collaboration seen in the Orokin nav gathering ("Hey look! I found one here! Come get it!"), void key sharing ("T3 Defense. Need A Frost with a big Globe"), and wave defense ("Help! Revive me!"). 

 

After all, what makes my Nekros such a prized possession isn't the fact that it makes zombies or looks cool. It's that I put a helluva lot of work into getting the navs, beating the golem, getting the parts, crating the frame.... and it's MINE. I earned it with the help of my friends and clan mates, and now we can virtually slap each other on the back and share in the awesomeness of our new frame. 

 

Simply put, if everyone around me is buying their new toys, and there's no real community effort to help each other... I'd quit Warframe. With well over 1000 plat in my account, I'd still quit. My free time deserves a rewarding, not just novel, experience. 

 

That said, there are indeed people who pay the full price of frames and weapons. Some do so because they don't have the time to play it, some because they want things right away, and many do because they want to support the game. Certainly, my own purchases have come as a desire to support DE - and I want to send a heartfelt thanks to all the people who bought Nekros. Your generosity has helped keep the game going, and also helped make it possible for people who genuinely can't afford to buy their way to have an equally enjoyable experience. 

 

Now I'm going to go back to my game. There's a scarf I've been embarrassingly fascinated by... and fellow Tenno, this purchase's for you!

 

Duenor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I propose that DE is doing everything just right. 

 

The prices are high for a reason - so that there is a strong incentive to play, participate, cooperate, and make the hard work to gain items/resources/credits enjoyable. DE understands a key concept of the experience - that it's not the shiny gun or spiky new warframe that gets us to keep playing. It's the hard work, tense uncertainty, and sweet suspense at the end of each void mission that makes me want to keep playing, making friends, developing my game into a social community as much as a personal experience. 

This is often the counter argument.

Most of the time, people forget that DE is a business.

 

It's flat out awful business sense to price something high to lower incentive to purchase a product.

I've posted my opinions on the market plenty of times.

 

This new deal of the day system is nice, but doesn't resolve the issue that weapon and Warframe prices are an utter joke.

$15+ for a weapon? $25 for a Warframe?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I propose that DE is doing everything just right. 

Simply put, if everyone around me is buying their new toys, and there's no real community effort to help each other... I'd quit Warframe. With well over 1000 plat in my account, I'd still quit. My free time deserves a rewarding, not just novel, experience.

The 2 largest moon clans have evaporated. The last is declining by the day.

Have no fear, the community is dying, but its more to do with lack of endgame, and the focus on artificially extending the gameplay with grind/RNG that is driving people away. Oh, that and the #*($%%@ up UI, unfunctional matchmaking, and random crashes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

$15 on average weapons, the reason this is overpriced is the amount you get for it. I.e. 4 weapons = a new AAA game (inb4 "But it's just a matter of amount", which is why I'm just showing an example, are 4 weapons REALLY worth a new game like far cry 3, or borderlands 2?). You also can get quite a few good games for under $15, most dear to my heart is terraria, having put over 112 hours into and planning to put in even more time when version 1.2 releases, all for the low price of $10.

 

 

Compared to F2P games:

 

TF2: $60 will get you a wide variety of weapons (almost all of them), or hats, and if you're a little frugal, you can get a weapon or two for each class (maybe 3), and a cosmetic.

 

LoL: $10 can get up to 5 champions (with a little left over ~80) AND a wide selection of those champions, but in WF, you can get at most 2 weapons or choose 2 of 3 frames (will have ~20 plat left over)

 

As for the "But if you buy everything, no one plays"

 

If there were 60 weapons in the market priced at $3, and 15 frames priced at $8, the cost to buy all of them would be $300 (obviously the total prices goes up as more stuff is added, and down as you buy bigger packages) You're SEVERELY overestimating how many people will buy EVERYTHING, it'd be more of the "OOOH! a new weapon that looks cool, I think I'll grab it."

 

"But if you buy everything, no one has a reason to play"

Right, because they SO didn't just buy every weapon (which needs to be leveled to get better), AND unlock missions AND farm for mats to build dojo weapons, AND run the void (which involves farming to get keys) to get primes.

 

You're arguments are based on silly assumptions namely:

1. Everyone will buy everything

2. and then will quit because they own every gun (excluding the clan stuff/primes)

Edited by KvotheTheArcane1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought two indie bundles yesterday for under 15 bucks. near twenty games and well over 100+ hours worth plus bonus content for less than most stuff costs in warframe. Now. Why. Would I buy stuff in warframe.

 

There is simply no incentive for me to purchase something in warframe when I can get whole games worth of content for the same price.

Edited by GSGregory
Link to comment
Share on other sites

TF2: $0 will get you a wide variety of weapons (almost all of them)

Fixed. You need to spend 49 cents in the game in order to have enough room for all the weapons, but that aside, the majority of weapons are absolute cake to obtain. The only ones that aren't are Event/Promotional weapons, which, for the most part, are simply reskins of already-existing weapons and don't affect gameplay in any way.

The majority of regular weapons can be obtained via trading for another weapon (roughly 3 and a half cents, obtainable by simply playing the game for half an hour or something) or a Scrap Metal (roughly 7 cents, obtaining by squishing two weapons together at no additional cost).

 

TF2's income is based almost entirely on cosmetics and boxes with randomly-selected cosmetics, with weapons being sold for extremely cheap so the players who are less keen on waiting for drops / trading with others can buy them without regrets. Look at how well it's been doing all these years.

Edited by SortaRandom
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's flat out awful business sense to price something high to lower incentive to purchase a product.

It's worse business sense to lower incentive to play the game at all to begin with. DE isn't hoping to make tons of money by selling you weapons and frames. Potatoes, colors, scarves, slots... that's where the common money is right now. A million people spending $2 each is far better than a ten thousand people spending $10 each.

The main driving force of the game is the cooperative social gameplay, and the social gameplay exists because people are cooperating and trying to get items together.

You also can get quite a few good games for under $15, most dear to my heart is terraria, having put over 112 hours into and planning to put in even more time when version 1.2 releases, all for the low price of $10.

You're arguments are based on silly assumptions namely:

1. Everyone will buy everything

2. and then will quit because they own every gun (excluding the clan stuff/primes)

The argument that other games cost far less and provide you with more hours of gameplay is apples to oranges. Playing chess on my phone has given me hundreds of hours of gameplay, and it was free. So does that mean your terraria is overpriced? Do you scoff at the people driving BMWs because there's a rust bucket that also gets one from point a to point b and costs $500?

The assumption that people will buy everything isn't silly - it's social logic. If things are easily affordable, the farming/grinding becomes silly work and not hard fun. Let's look at Nekros. If just 1/5th of all players bought necros outright, the number of golem missions and orokin derlict missions would severely drop in Recruiting. That would mean it would be even harder to get, which would mean it would make even more sense to buy it... and then after you buy it, what point would there be in doing golem or derelict? In other words, it would increasingly (and rapidly over time) make it difficult for players to go F2P. That would in turn result in much lower players... and then why would anyone want to buy weapons or frames when there's no one around to play with?

In addition, it would also erode the core model of Warframe - that it IS possible to go F2P, that one does NOT have to buy their way into playing. It's one of the best things about the game, and the high prices help keep it that way.

It's also not like WF isn't doing little things here and there to deviate from the model. The % off coupons, alerts, and sales are good efforts toward that end.

Edited by duenor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first argument is dumbbutt bullhonky I have literally never heard on these forums.

The second one is obvious if you compare Warframe's prices to other F2P games. Things ARE too expensive. And I'm not saying that because I want to buy anything: I'm poor, so the VERY LITTLE amount of money I put into WF always goes into slots. But there ARE people who WILL buy stuff if the prices are lower, and that's missed sales for DE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first argument is dumbbutt bullhonky I have literally never heard on these forums.

The second one is obvious if you compare Warframe's prices to other F2P games. Things ARE too expensive. And I'm not saying that because I want to buy anything: I'm poor, so the VERY LITTLE amount of money I put into WF always goes into slots. But there ARE people who WILL buy stuff if the prices are lower, and that's missed sales for DE.

 

And we want WF to be like other F2P games... why?

 

People don't understand this: lower prices does not mean more sales. LOWER PRICES DOES NOT MEAN MORE SALES.

If BMW were to make all of its cars the same price as a Toyota Corolla, there would be a rush on them... soon followed by permanently mediocre sales. See: Bulova, Movado, and others. The reason a Patek Phillipe watch is worth $35K is because it sells for $35K and most people can't afford it.

 

Much of why the current WF purchases are "worth it" to the people who buy them is because of exclusivity and early access. Make it cheaper and both are gone. Everybody has it, the value goes way down, the gameplay goes down, and so does the whole game.

 

The fact that YOU, oblivionnecroninja, are trying hard to earn the items you want in WF makes MY game experience that much more enjoyable. I have both the money and plat to buy whatever I want - but what I really want is the cooperative experience of playing with other players like you. 

 

PS: "I haven't heard it, so it must not exist" Ok...maybe read more?

Edited by duenor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

-snip-

That's true, but I wanted to compare apples to apples (or weapons to weapons) (and has tf2 passed 100 weapons? If you don't count reskins, you can get all the weapons as a F2P)

 

It's worse business sense to lower incentive to play the game at all to begin with. DE isn't hoping to make tons of money by selling you weapons and frames. Potatoes, colors, scarves, slots... that's where the common money is right now. A million people spending $2 each is far better than a ten thousand people spending $10 each.

And? Why does this mean weapon/frame/resource prices are ok?

 

The main driving force of the game is the cooperative social gameplay, and the social gameplay exists because people are cooperating and trying to get items together.

And people will still do that, people won't just buy the weapons then say "Welp, I'm done."

 

The argument that other games cost far less and provide you with more hours of gameplay is apples to oranges. Playing chess on my phone has given me hundreds of hours of gameplay, and it was free. So does that mean your terraria is overpriced? Do you scoff at the people driving BMWs because there's a rust bucket that also gets one from point a to point b and costs $500?

"Apples to oranges", no, it's comparing one free to play to another, that's what you do. You compare similar things. As for the terraria/triple A games bit, that was just showing an example of how overpriced WF is. Do I laugh at people who drive BMWs? No, I say: "Dang, wish I had that much disposable income."

 

The assumption that people will buy everything isn't silly - it's social logic. If things are easily affordable, the farming/grinding becomes silly work and not hard fun. Let's look at Nekros. If just 1/5th of all players bought necros outright, the number of golem missions and orokin derlict missions would severely drop in Recruiting. That would mean it would be even harder to get, which would mean it would make even more sense to buy it... and then after you buy it, what point would there be in doing golem or derelict? In other words, it would increasingly (and rapidly over time) make it difficult for players to go F2P. That would in turn result in much lower players... and then why would anyone want to buy weapons or frames when there's no one around to play with?

"The assumption that people will buy everything isn't silly - it's social logic. If things are easily affordable, the farming/grinding becomes silly work and not hard fun."

Again, not EVERYONE will just buy everything, people gravitate to F2Ps because they don't want to spend $60 in one go generally. People will still play the game and farm mats for many reasons. Perhaps they don't want to spend money, or can't. Maybe they enjoy the grind (because of the combat), maybe they like to feel the accomplishment of farming something and building it.

 

Again, you've fallen into an assumption of that EVERYONE will buy EVERYTHING without considering anything else (i.e. disposable income)

And the farming/grinding is a problem of the game really, even the devs admit it.

 

"Nekro"

What's the point of running it if you've bought him? Well, Gee, I dunno, seeing the tiles? Farming mutagen (although, I imagine it'll be spread out soon), getting to fight the new golem. There are PLENTY of reasons to go there still, and again, some people will farm him, either because they want to, or because they have no money to spend on plat (or don't want to)

 

 

In addition, it would also erode the core model of Warframe - that it IS possible to go F2P, that one does NOT have to buy their way into playing. It's one of the best things about the game, and the high prices help keep it that way.

But it WOULD remain possible, I don;t see how reasonable prices would ruin WF, what kinda logic is that? Ah, you're assuming everyone will buy everything, that's right. High prices = bad, if you need high prices to keep players playing your game, you're doing something wrong.

 

And again, just because I bought my shiny new X, Y, or Z doesn't mean I stop playing, it means I go out and play WITH the shiny new X, Y, or Z.

 

 

 

It's also not like WF isn't doing little things here and there to deviate from the model. The % off coupons, alerts, and sales are good efforts toward that end.

They're very minor though, you can t rely on them.

 

"Oh noes! Everybody bought everything in the store! This is TERRIBLE!" line of BS argument/thinking

This is about the best thing that could happen to DE as a business. They would get a MASSIVE MASSIVE in flux of cash if people splurged like this, which means they can hire more people! Which means they can make more content/balance stuff/fix bugs/GET SERVERS TO FIX  STRICT NAT/host problems! Which means more people go "Hey, friend I like playing games with, PLAY WARFRAME, IT'S SO COOL!" Which means more people come to warframe and play it, and possibly spend money to support DE. It's a good cycle (might not happen right away) if people start buying EVERYTHING in the store.

 

People don't understand this: lower prices does not mean more sales. LOWER PRICES DOES NOT MEAN MORE SALES.

Theory of price elasticity GG try again. Lower prices = more sales, just like higher prices = fewer sales.

 

And we want WF to be like other F2P games... why?

Correction, we want them to be like other SUCCESSFUL F2Ps.

Edited by KvotheTheArcane1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nah. Warframe is among the most expensive F2P games I've played. It isn't completely overblown or entirely unfair and it doesn't totally ruin the game, but money doesn't tend to go very far either if you talk about buying anything aside from Slots.

 

 Slots are a pretty great value for your money.

 

 But buying a Warframe? Yeah. You could spend as low as $5 or as high as $20. There is no particular pattern to pricing either. They haven't updated their pricing in ages, Volt hasn't been a starter frame a long time and still sits in the $5 bracket. And $20 for newer frames? Twice as much as quite a few other games charge for the same sort of purchase. LoL is unfortunately among the most lucrative F2P games ever and it charges half that much for a new character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is often the counter argument.

Most of the time, people forget that DE is a business.

 

It's flat out awful business sense to price something high to lower incentive to purchase a product.

I've posted my opinions on the market plenty of times.

 

This new deal of the day system is nice, but doesn't resolve the issue that weapon and Warframe prices are an utter joke.

$15+ for a weapon? $25 for a Warframe?

 

Apples to oranges here, but the costs DE puts out are nothing compared to some other games. *cough*G1*cough*$50forgun*cough* Oop, sorry about that. I'm allergic to grubbing...

 

That being said, I still think they're doing too much. With the RNG the way it is sometimes, it almost feels like they're PURPOSELY screwing up the "random" part and letting you get 2 of a Frame's parts only to NEVER allow you to get the third, thereby forcing you to purchase the thing with real money... Same could be said for other things. I have a Forma BP sitting ready to go, just needs 1 Orokin Cell. I used to be covered up in them and now I've ran at least 2 Saturn missions a night for a week, looting everything, and nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's true, but I wanted to compare apples to apples (or weapons to weapons) (and has tf2 passed 100 weapons? If you don't count reskins, you can get all the weapons as a F2P)

I just did a very rough count on the wiki page, and it seems that there are ~140 different weapons (although probably 160 or something if you count easy-to-obtain reskins, and maybe 175 or so if you count event-only reskins). Turns out there isn't a single difficult-to-obtain weapon that isn't a reskin of something much more common, meaning that in terms of gameplay options, it's basically F2P heaven in there. XD

But yeah. Weapons are dirt-cheap in the Mann Co. store, and air-cheap when traded with other players. Cosmetics and "special" items (i.e. taunts, gift wrap, "Strange" weapons, and, most importantly, hats) are still available to F2P players, but can still be obtained much more easily by simply buying them in the store. This is TF2's business model, and it's one of the most successful I've ever seen. DE would do well to take a leaf or two out of its book.

Edited by SortaRandom
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just did a very rough count on the wiki page, and it seems that there are ~140 different weapons (although probably 160 or something if you count easy-to-obtain reskins, and maybe 175 or so if you count event-only reskins). Turns out there isn't a single difficult-to-obtain weapon that isn't a reskin of something much more common, meaning that in terms of gameplay options, it's basically F2P heaven in there. XD

But yeah. Weapons are dirt-cheap in the Mann Co. store, and air-cheap when traded with other players. Cosmetics and "special" items (i.e. taunts, gift wrap, "Strange" weapons, and, most importantly, hats) are still available to F2P players, but can still be obtained much more easily by simply buying them in the store. This is TF2's business model, and it's one of the most successful I've ever seen. DE would do well to take a leaf or two out of its book.

Oh yeah, no question, TF2 did F2P right, no one can deny this. Weapons, the main gameplay element that new players are interested in are EASY to get, incredibly so, while the cosmetics allow older players to show off. If I was to point any new company in the direction of a F2P to look at when they look to make a cash shop, it'd either be LoL with their very well done prices, or TF2 which, yes, has some silly prices, but overall has very good prices.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's the hard work, tense uncertainty, and sweet suspense at the end of each void mission that makes me want to keep playing, making friends, developing my game into a social community as much as a personal experience.

 

And truer words were never spoken. :)

 

have a +1, mate!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This new deal of the day system is nice, but doesn't resolve the issue that weapon and Warframe prices are an utter joke.

$15+ for a weapon? $25 for a Warframe?

Yeah this ^ The deal is nice, but if it's only 25% (first day, gonna wait and see what the deal ranges are), then it's pretty much useless. $15 - 25% is still $11.25 on average for a weapon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

"Apples to oranges", no, it's comparing one free to play to another, that's what you do. You compare similar things. As for the terraria/triple A games bit, that was just showing an example of how overpriced WF is. Do I laugh at people who drive BMWs? No, I say: "Dang, wish I had that much disposable income."

 

"Nekro"

What's the point of running it if you've bought him? Well, Gee, I dunno, seeing the tiles? Farming mutagen (although, I imagine it'll be spread out soon), getting to fight the new golem. There are PLENTY of reasons to go there still, and again, some people will farm him, either because they want to, or because they have no money to spend on plat (or don't want to)

 

 

"Oh noes! Everybody bought everything in the store! This is TERRIBLE!" line of BS argument/thinking

This is about the best thing that could happen to DE as a business. They would get a MASSIVE MASSIVE in flux of cash if people splurged like this, which means they can hire more people! Which means they can make more content/balance stuff/fix bugs/GET SERVERS TO FIX  STRICT NAT/host problems! Which means more people go "Hey, friend I like playing games with, PLAY WARFRAME, IT'S SO COOL!" Which means more people come to warframe and play it, and possibly spend money to support DE. It's a good cycle (might not happen right away) if people start buying EVERYTHING in the store.

 

Theory of price elasticity GG try again. Lower prices = more sales, just like higher prices = fewer sales.

 

So why not look at the people who buy with plat and have the same reaction as you would to people in BMWs? Because people certainly do buy frames, weapons, etc. 

 

As for people still playing with their items, comparing to TF2, etc.... look. You're missing a VERY big point. WF is PVE. TF2 is NOT. Therefore, the primary driving force to play WF is killing mobs with friends and getting rare loot. In TF2, the primary driving force is killing the enemy team. 

 

Make everything cheap makes rare loot not rare, which makes one wonder why the hell they're doing missions with friends. Do you get excited each time you pick up a Reach, Hellfire, or Well of Life? How about your 9th Frost Prime Chassis after you've already had the frame for a month? The labor of getting items isn't a problem... and you seem to look at it as "work". It's not a grind, at least not for me - it's the whole reason I play the game.

 

Lower prices does NOT mean more sales. Again, see Dollar Stores, Generic Brands, Store Just-As-Good lines of products. 

More sales does NOT mean more profit. 

 

What you are advocating is killing the goose to get to the golden egg now in the hopes that that golden egg will hatch into something. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...