Destiny is going Free-to-Play, what does it mean for Warframe?

[Gedanox]

hace 3 horas, BrazilianJoe dijo:

For cross-progress, I think one issue, that of per-platform premium currency, can be solved creatively. 

Currently it's all called "Platinum", but they are completely segregated markets - and there remains the issue of platinum having different value depending on platform. 

I propose differentiating the Platinum on each platform, so it remains different entities in the save/progress, tradeable across all platforms, but can only be spent on the "correct platform" .

PC - Silver Platinum

Switch - Red Platinum

XBOX - Green Platinum

PS4 - Blue Platinum

 

That would preserve each individual platform's value of Platinum market, and retain the ability and value of user trades to make it flow through the community.

Oh yeah sure, thats a genius idea.

Im gonna buy X item for Y amount of red platinum on switch, but them I gonna go to pc and sell it for Z silver platinum.

You just made the same system but more complicated for everyone. For your idea to be any close to valid, they should have to cut the free market, wich I can tell ya that it's not happening.

[844448]

cross save is possible, if DE blocks trading, doesn't let platinum bought items or cosmetics cross to other platforms or outright only gives you your basic progression (your weapons, frames, and companions) because I already thought about how to abuse it

1. buy tennogen from console with platinum and go back to PC to use it so I don't need to use steam just to buy them

2. buy sought items from the cheapest platform and sell it on other platforms that offer bigger payment

Other than this, updates will come at slower pace because you will need to wait for console certification process and quality check from DE for some time, if that won't make you scream when will the update comes, other people will

[(NSW)Nahaha]

 

23 hours ago, (PS4)SpicySpaceTurtle said:

Ok, and I agree that Warframe started as a passion project and not to make money like Destiny did but your argument is weak. You think that because the game is great that it can't be better? I don't understand this and disagree entirely. It is good that you think the game is perfect but put yourself in my shoes and try to understand where I am coming from with this. And I'm not the only one.

You're not the only one. 

[Midas]

On 2019-06-07 at 10:44 PM, AXCrusnik said:

They've said rather recently that they are thinking about cross-prog. No hard confirmation of yes or no yet.

Keep in mind though that DE isn't as high profile as Bungie so they might not have the resources or clout to do something like cross-prog as easily as Bungie... Yeah DE worked on Unreal Tournament, but pretty much everyone thinks Epic Games when you mention UT so... yeah.

They have SO much money its not even funny. They can certainly do this AT LEAST add dedicated servers (dead by daylight has dedicated servers).

[Corvid]

25 minutes ago, Midas said:

They have SO much money its not even funny. They can certainly do this AT LEAST add dedicated servers (dead by daylight has dedicated servers).

Citation Needed.

[kwlingo]

On 2019-06-07 at 10:12 PM, (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

People still play Destiny 2? 🤔

I commented one of the youtube clips that Mugamoo did on the soon Free to Play Destiny 2. Their business model is just a scam to lure players money for new content. I swear about 80% or players were dissapointed with the Destiny 2 because of false advertising, all they did was add new stages. lol It's not going to change just because it F2P. Anything new will still be a Pay to Play and win concept.

Edited June 9, 2019 by kwlingo

[seprent]

why does it have to be a plate they step up too 

why not a pedestal or a shelf or possibly a hexagon 

why should they approach the plate mayhaps it is cursed with some pharaoh magics 

what if there is a triangle and not a plate 

why am i posting things at close to one in the morning when i should be sleeping 

all of these questions in more that will never be answered because only sheogorath knows those answers and im sure some of them will just make your teeth itch 

[JoJo.Granum]

It can be a financial issue.  Reason being, it may cost to cross patch. And DE may not have the resources to do such, unfortunately. They can push for it, but again, they're a small Canadian company, where Canadian and small can be a disadvantage... says the Canadian here .

🙂

However it could happen. Who knows?

[Vit0Corleone]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTen0 said:

It can be a financial issue.  Reason being, it may cost to cross patch. And DE may not have the resources to do such, unfortunately. They can push for it, but again, they're a small Canadian company, where Canadian and small can be a disadvantage... says the Canadian here .

🙂

 However it could happen. Who knows?

What is small to you, my Canadian friend?

They are 300+ employees, making large millions of dollars of profit for their parent company. I wouldn't consider that small, but then again, I'm not Canadian.

[JoJo.Granum]

Compared to companies like EA, Blizzard and even Bungie, DE is small 🙂

Also being Canadian is a bit of a disadvantage too, especially in the current political climate. Their parent company is.. hmm. is, hmm, not sure.. all I know is that they're from China .. another country that Canada has some serious issues politically with, which is affecting economy atm. 

 

[Vit0Corleone]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTen0 said:

Compared to companies like EA, Blizzard and even Bungie, DE is small 🙂

Also being Canadian is a bit of a disadvantage too, especially in the current political climate. Their parent company is.. hmm. is, hmm, not sure.. all I know is that they're from China .. another country that Canada has some serious issues politically with, which is affecting economy atm. 

 

Be that as it may, DE profiting $95.8 million CAD in 2016 ( I assume 2018 is much higher than that ) doesn't strike me as a small company struggling with money to do things.

[JoJo.Granum]

In Canada, that is quite a bit of money. However, compare it to the US companies. Plus when I mention Warframe to other gamers, many haven't heard of the game. The ones who do, are often diehard gamers 🙂

 

[Vit0Corleone]

19 minutes ago, JoJoTen0 said:

In Canada, that is quite a bit of money. However, compare it to the US companies. Plus when I mention Warframe to other gamers, many haven't heard of the game. The ones who do, are often diehard gamers 🙂

 

Sure, but on your previous comment you said:

38 minutes ago, JoJoTen0 said:

It can be a financial issue.  Reason being, it may cost to cross patch. And DE may not have the resources to do such, unfortunately.

Looking at how much they are profiting, I'd be surprised if financial issues are what's holding them up from adopting cross progress.

[JoJo.Granum]

Picky picky, aren't we...

Well my dear, it depends if you mean US or Canadian . 

Canadian dollar, is only worth 70cents US.

95 million Canadian isn't the same, as 95 USD.

Which one is it?

 

[Krakovimon]

il y a 3 minutes, Vit0Corleone a dit :

Sure, but on your previous comment you said:

Looking at how much they are profiting, I'd be surprised if financial issues are what's holding them up from adopting cross progress.

Probably because it's not a profitable business model. People that want to Play on both Platform need to either play or pay, which in the first case, makes the game active and the latter finance the game. If someone goes from a Platform to another he doesnt need to go through the whole process of Play or Pay and thus isn't profitable for the company

[FlusteredFerret]

30 minutes ago, Vit0Corleone said:

Be that as it may, DE profiting $95.8 million CAD in 2016 ( I assume 2018 is much higher than that ) doesn't strike me as a small company struggling with money to do things.

Where did you get this data?

Until I see some proof I'm calling BS.

The only financial statements anyone has been able to see to date are those of Leyou...and those don't show DE's profits. In fact those give almost NO financial data for DE, other than an indication of how much they contribute to Leyou's gaming portfolio...which includes 4 other studios.

 

[Vit0Corleone]

1 minute ago, JoJoTen0 said:

Picky picky, aren't we...

Well my dear, it depends if you mean US or Canadian . 

Canadian dollar, is only worth 70cents US.

95 million Canadian isn't the same, as 95 USD.

Which one is it?

 

You can check for yourself here:

I haven't read the report myself thou, just going by what that guy posted.

[JoJo.Granum]

Hmmm. 58.7 million CAD. My dear that's a far cry from 96 million, which wasn't determined to be CAD or US. 

Canada has its own currency, as we all know.

I pointed out that $CAD is worth 70 cents USD. 

So, if you use a currency converter, put that to USD.  I can say it won't be as much as companies like EA or Blizzard or Bungie. 

As well, Warframe is basically DE's only best selling game. I'm unaware of any others they are developing as any other developments are kept on the down-low there. And it's free! Free to download! Free to use! Only thing they charge is for aesthetics!

However this isn't a way I want to spend a Sunday morning. 🙂 

Good luck, and good health, Tenno! 🙂

Edited June 9, 2019 by JoJoTen0

[-Delimit-]

6 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

The only financial statements anyone has been able to see to date are those of Leyou...and those don't show DE's profits. In fact those give almost NO financial data for DE, other than an indication of how much they contribute to Leyou's gaming portfolio...which includes 4 other studios. 

Except on the financial report that is being referenced, it very specifically names DE as the source of those profits.  IIRC they were only just acquiring those other studios.  They've most certainly been extremely profitable, especially given the growth over the last 3 years. 

[Vit0Corleone]

4 minutes ago, JoJoTen0 said:

Hmmm. 58.7 million CAD. My dear that's a far cry from 96 million, which wasn't determined to be CAD or US. 

That's net income. I was referencing the profit state below that, which reads 96 million CAD.

[FlusteredFerret]

12 minutes ago, Vit0Corleone said:

You can check for yourself here:

I haven't read the report myself thou, just going by what that guy posted.

You may just want to -re-read the post you quoted.

"2016 was a record year for DE, with a record high net income of $58.7 million CAD". A bit less than the $95.8 million gross profit you quoted earlier. 

 

While thats still impressive, that data is 2 years old now. I have been through the 2017 and 2018 reports and you will find they make no reference to DE's net income. Interestingly, they only report revenue or gross profit figures.

While I don't doubt DE are doing okay, its foolish to assume their profits only ever go up, particularly in something as volatile as the F2P gaming market, where they have quite a lot of competition.

Also worth remembering that DE are part of the Leyou Group...just because they make a decent profit, doesn't necessarily mean they get to keep it all. For all we know Leyou could be using them as a cash cow to milk for the benefit of their shareholders. Pure speculation on my part, but its something that has been known to happen.

Point is, we can't infer what money DE has available to them, just from reading financial statements.

 

[Vit0Corleone]

4 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

You may just want to -re-read the post you quoted.

"2016 was a record year for DE, with a record high net income of $58.7 million CAD". A bit less than the $95.8 million gross profit you quoted earlier. 

I don't need t o re-read it. I specifically mentioned 96m *profit*, not net income.

5 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Point is, we can't infer what money DE has available to them, just from reading financial statements.

We can't. But we can infer that DE is a healthy and highly profitable company. Since 2016, the game has grown a lot in number of players, so we can also infer that their profits are higher as well.

It seems like a struck a nerve somewhere. Sorry if that made some people angry, I didn't mean it. I love DE as much as anyone here, but I'd rather stay objective and skeptical rather than just praise DE like they are some kind of deity.

The only thing I meant to comment on, was on the other guy up there that says DE can't afford doing cross save, alluding to lack of money to do so.

I don't think that the "DE are small and poor and can't afford doing stuff" is a valid argument, looking at those numbers. Just my opinion for what is worth.

Could there be other arguments ( not financial related )? I'm sure there are, not disputing that.

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Nation_X said:

The amount of misinformation about Destiny on this thread is staggering and i would hazard a guess from people who dont actually play the game. To call a game that has over 500k (800k yesterday) daily players 'dead' is laughable. Looks at WF steam stats *rolls eyes* 

Having a few new warframes per year, tennogen, a lifetime between Tennocon announcements and implementation, and no end game isnt a solid content 'model'.

Many MMOs adopt the model Destiny will be using including Final Fantasy. It doesnt mean a game is dead or dying it is making it more accessible. In their Vidoc Bungie stated they are making Destiny the MMO they had always wanted it to be.

You are aware that steam only shows concurrent players right? That means that a rough guesstimate gives us around 100k concurrent users for PC. That in the end adds up to probably around a million (or higher) passing through the game on a daily basis on PC only. With the popularity of WF it wouldnt be an odd occurance if we have around 2m daily players on PC though.

So before you go rolling eyes on steam stats, make sure you understand the difference in what type of numbers are shown for the two games. Second thing to do would be to read up on how you roughly estimate concurrent numbers of popular and unpopular games. After that you might get a better idea of which numbers you should be rolling your eyes about.

Edited June 9, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[EmberStar]

I'm pretty sure in the most recent Devstream, the devs addressed the idea of cross-platform progression.  They said they'd like to, but that there are technical and legal reasons why it's not going to happen anytime soon.  They've mentioned this before.  The technical:  Warframe wasn't designed to *be* cross platform.  Depending on how their database of player and character info is stored, changing that could range from "kind of tricky" to "really, really hard, close to impossible."  I know that there are some database architectures that you can't just mix together like shuffling a deck of cards.  And it's possible that the way Warframe stores data could have some "well, it seemed like a good idea at the time" design decisions that make it even harder than it would need to be. 

Rocket League can do cross-platform by flipping a switch because the devs for that game KNEW they were making it for multiple platforms.  They took it into account, and built it that way from the ground up.  DE knew they were making a PC game to start, and the consoles happened later.  There could be features in the code that work fine on PC, and not at all on console.  But are so integrated into how the game works for PC that they can't simply get rid of them without having to essentially rewrite the game.

For the legal part, Sony likes to be a jerk.  Fortnite is big enough to twist their arm and get cross-platform.  Barely, and even then only after a huge backlash when people tried to link their Nintendo Switch accounts and discovered that if there was a PS4 link, *all* of their progress was being tied to Playstation and that they'd have to basically start over with a new account.  Bungie and Destiny 2 is big enough to get what they want.  Which is kind of strong evidence that Destiny 2 is NOT dead and dying.  Sony wouldn't cave unless Destiny 2 was so big that they'd lose serious money when Bungie took their ball and went home.  I don't play either of those games, so I have no idea how (or if) cross platform currently works on Fortnite.  And it hasn't actually happened yet for Destiny 2.  And all that isn't even considering the fact that it might be written into the contract with one (or more) of the consoles that DE isn't *allowed* to do cross platform.

Each of the consoles has their own store, and their own marketplace.  On PC, Tennogen is tied exclusively to having a Steam account.  You can only buy Tennogen for real money, not platinum.  And you can't buy it at all if you only use the DE standalone launcher.  Part of bringing Tennogen to consoles is that DE essentially has to "buy out" the artists work.  This apparently takes the form of the artist agreeing to be bought out, and getting a one-time, lump payment based on how popular DE thinks that item well be and how well it will sell.  Some Tennogen doesn't exist on console because the artists didn't agree to sell it there.  That's also part of why there's a huge delay before Tennogen gets ported to the consoles.  The other part is technical, since I believe the textures have to be re-optimized for the much tighter memory limitations on some of the consoles.

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

"R.I.P." is probably the first thing that comes to mind for some...
So, what I feared (and warned DE for the longest time) as happened. Warframe will soon NOT be the only fish in the pond. For the longest time free-to-play was this little deviant videogame market, where only small or indie studios dare to enter, little even succed. Warframe changed all that. Proving that dedicated Devs, and a dedicated Community can indeed survive, succed and even thrive in one of the most competitive bussiness in the world.

But, just like Fortnite had its Apex... Now, comes Destiny: New Light. And this is a well know scifi shooter that is finished, is smaller to complete, has only three characters to master, and has proven "endgame" activities. AND it will include even Cross Save... And now Warframe needs to play catch-up.
DE was warned time and again that getting into Warframe was very difficult, and that reaching the "high tier" activites required too much dedicated time (without plat or boosters). Players still get confused and (probably the worst) have to rely on third party benefactors from the Community (Wiki, Semlar, etc) to help complete certain modes, particularlly with every new update. The Devs are working on something to ease the entrance of the game to new players, and Steve has stated that he wanted to make it so players could reach "endgame activities" in less time (he said: "right now it takes about 80h to do so"; but we all know it takes WAY LONGER than that). Unfortunatelly, like so many thing in the game, they're still "working on it".

Now, I'm sure that dedicated players (on both sides) will probably stay with their respective games, but what will new players choose?
An extensive game with complicated and diferent modes that has over 30 characters and 300 weapons, but hasn't run out of new things to do, and with more to come?
Or a well-known "closed" game that has 3 characters to master, is much smaller, but you reach endgame a lot quicker (altought some of those are PvP)?
Based on my experience, my conclusion is this: it is a lot easier for a Warframe player to get into Destiny, than to a Destiny player to get into Warframe (and since I've seen more people "burnout" from Warframe than Destiny)... The choice for a new player seems to be pretty simple.

[TL;DR] Warframe COULD be in trouble... But I hope this will give DE the necessary "incentive" to change and trim the game in order to make it better for both new and veteran players... DE's future hangs in that balance.