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EIDOLON Hunt restricion.


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Hey guys!

 

This is just an idea of mine, so don't go all-out-burn-them-to-the-ground on me if you don't like it. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, right? Then comment below what you think, but I URGE YOU - be civil about it.

 

That said,

I think there should be a level restriction for Eidolon Hunt missions. And it should be a squad-wide restriction - meaning: if one of the squad members doesn't meet the requirement, squad doesn't meet the requirement too.

I know, I know - this seems to be very strict, exquisitely painful, restrictive, unholy, and so on, and so forth.

But just think about it:

Imagine: someday, at some time during the day (IRL), it is Night on the Plains in game. Shame you don't have anyone reliable enough to go  to the hunt with at that particular moment. But you are insistent and you decide to go anyway. So you get yourself into a random squad... BS-ing yourself that this will be the greatest hunt, at least 6 Teralysts / 2 Tri this night...

But oh... you land with - yeah, random - but also clueless players, say: Rank 0, Rank 2, and Rank 7 (my real life occurence!) So, basically, you have to decide: either back out (losing the time of the night - hey, not everyone has the high-end machines, designed only for playing games :D) or... try to do this by yourself alone, dragging those first-timers on your tail too. Hey, you'd have to be a Superman to make it. And when it's three Eidolons? You don't have a chance, cause they will probably won't even know how to put those shards in the Garatoth Lake.

 

So... to sum up this babbling:

Let's make a static rule / restriction - a player cannot enter Eidolon Hunt before achieving rank... say: 12 (MR of Rubico Prime). Or better yet - MR 13.

Why not 5 or 7? Because players usually don't know enough about the ways of the game at that ranks. And I am basing this on the requirements for the MR tests!

Heck, you could try to take on Eidolon a with a Bolto secondary, for what I care. But Weapons MR requirement of weapons aside, achieving MR 13 proves that you really know how to aim your weapon, how to avoid attacks and how to be mobile enough to evade enemies while hitting the Eidolon hard and effectively.

 

Players at MR 0 or 2, or even 7... Just don't cut it. And having them in your squad puts a real toll on you and the two squad members you are going with.

 

Best regards,

Galadh

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To gain access to the quills and the first mote amp, you need the war within. MR5. Which can simply be Mote required.

It's a logical minimum that needs no further player prejudice in MR.

The tri hunt at most should be locked tell any second amp is built. Mote only players for that is a bit ridiculous to allow.

Any further optimization should be through recruit chat.

Edited by Firetempest
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16 minutes ago, Galadh said:

Let's make a static rule / restriction - a player cannot enter Eidolon Hunt before achieving rank... say: 12 (MR of Rubico Prime). Or better yet - MR 13.

Why not 5 or 7? Because players usually don't know enough about the ways of the game at that ranks. And I am basing this on the requirements for the MR tests!

I mean... I can easily get to MR20 without ever touching anything from the Tridolon Meta.
MR doesn't mean you are good/bad at Tridolons.

It's all about the knowledge and the Rivens. Yes, Rivens, because a Rubico Prime without a Riven just won't cut it. So no point in talking about the Rubico Prime...

Btw. OP, before you come at me, I want to tell you that I'm MR27. So 3 ranks higher than you. Going by your logic I know more than you XD

Edited by WhiteMarker
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20 minutes ago, Galadh said:

Hey guys!

 

This is just an idea of mine, so don't go all-out-burn-them-to-the-ground on me if you don't like it. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, right? Then comment below what you think, but I URGE YOU - be civil about it.

 

That said,

I think there should be a level restriction for Eidolon Hunt missions. And it should be a squad-wide restriction - meaning: if one of the squad members doesn't meet the requirement, squad doesn't meet the requirement too.

I know, I know - this seems to be very strict, exquisitely painful, restrictive, unholy, and so on, and so forth.

But just think about it:

Imagine: someday, at some time during the day (IRL), it is Night on the Plains in game. Shame you don't have anyone reliable enough to go  to the hunt with at that particular moment. But you are insistent and you decide to go anyway. So you get yourself into a random squad... BS-ing yourself that this will be the greatest hunt, at least 6 Teralysts / 2 Tri this night...

But oh... you land with - yeah, random - but also clueless players, say: Rank 0, Rank 2, and Rank 7 (my real life occurence!) So, basically, you have to decide: either back out (losing the time of the night - hey, not everyone has the high-end machines, designed only for playing games :D) or... try to do this by yourself alone, dragging those first-timers on your tail too. Hey, you'd have to be a Superman to make it. And when it's three Eidolons? You don't have a chance, cause they will probably won't even know how to put those shards in the Garatoth Lake.

 

So... to sum up this babbling:

Let's make a static rule / restriction - a player cannot enter Eidolon Hunt before achieving rank... say: 12 (MR of Rubico Prime). Or better yet - MR 13.

Why not 5 or 7? Because players usually don't know enough about the ways of the game at that ranks. And I am basing this on the requirements for the MR tests!

Heck, you could try to take on Eidolon a with a Bolto secondary, for what I care. But Weapons MR requirement of weapons aside, achieving MR 13 proves that you really know how to aim your weapon, how to avoid attacks and how to be mobile enough to evade enemies while hitting the Eidolon hard and effectively.

 

Players at MR 0 or 2, or even 7... Just don't cut it. And having them in your squad puts a real toll on you and the two squad members you are going with.

 

Best regards,

Galadh

Your problem is with the group finder , so just don't use it .

Join the recruitement chat like EVERYONE ELSE btw and get a group together.

 

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Why not just go solo if you can't find a decent squad. You could atleast do 1 tridolon (better than nothing).

A solution I can think of is to just MR lock Cetus/PoE. Make it not a requirement to progress to Mars (as it was before). 

Squad wide restrictions seem a bit much. What if I have a clan mate who's below MR10 and I want to help him do hunts? Say for example I urge him to use Trinity/Oberon to be useful and i'll take care of the rest. 

Lanka is another meta weapon for Eidolons and it requires MR10. So maybe MR lock Cetus/PoE to MR10? 

Also I doubt it's hard to find a group since even 20 minutes before night comes, the recruitment chat is already spammed by LF requests.

 

Edited by Sir_Carl
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I always join public bounties for tridolon. Most of the time it goes pretty smooth and if I catch the night cycle early, the group I join can generally do a second with the time remaining.

Certainly a few groups have had trouble and we barely made it though all three but the next night cycle will be up soon enough.

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41 minutes ago, Galadh said:

I think there should be a level restriction for Eidolon Hunt missions.

will you be affected by that restriction? no? then all you want is to take away from other people what you already got? cool.

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I feel a lot gamers sorta miss out on the true entertainment to be had from Sorties, to Trials, to Raids, Arbitration on and on...in that the most fun you can have is a PUG that has no idea what it is doing and you have that one guy who has a complete meltdown over it...

 

OH MAN, THE ENTERTAINMENT IS JUST OFF THE CHARTS....

Edited by (PS4)FriendSharkey
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1 hour ago, Galadh said:

I think there should be a level restriction for Eidolon Hunt missions. And it should be a squad-wide restriction - meaning: if one of the squad members doesn't meet the requirement, squad doesn't meet the requirement too.Galadh

I'd have much better chances looking in recruit chat for players, and having a peek at their profile to see how many times they've done Tridolons if I was into maximising my attempts at captures. 

Why fix what isn't broken? The point of pubbing is to just join a squad with randoms, and to do a mission with no expectations. If you have expectations, recruiting is good enough for anyone to check the gear or whatever else requirement you need for whatever it is to do. Even better than that would be to get some like minded friends, make a server on discord or a clan, and do it daily. 

Adding requirements to pubbing is just a bit out of the way. 

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There is no way you will get an optimal squad when you're going on random squad so BS-ing yourself won't make it any better and putting restrictions will only make it less appealing

On the other hand, MR means completely nothing. I can start a new account, join my own clan, get everything built, leech exp on hydron like many do and reach MR 12/13 in 12/13 days and no experience in eidolon at all

Also, we already have tridolon bounty and recruiting chat so if you don't use it, it's on you

That being said, if you want to have a greatest night hunt, find a group for that so I strongly disagree here

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I'm in favor of a few restrictions for eidolon hunting. It's funny how people don't know you can jump into the plains without queue up from Konzu to hunt eidolon. If you're gonna queue teralyst, must have an amp equip. Not hard. Added bonus, players will try to figure out what's an amp, go to Quills for one, then open up that path. Trilodon should have at least two arcane equipped on operator. Doesn't matter the rank on them just need to equip two.
EDIT: Nevermind the arcane equip requirements. Just have Observer standing with the Quills. That's not hard nor long to get to. Take a page from the Profit Taker.

Edited by (PS4)jaggerwanderer
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2 hours ago, Galadh said:

Let's make a static rule / restriction - a player cannot enter Eidolon Hunt before achieving rank... say: 12 (MR of Rubico Prime). Or better yet - MR 13.

Nope because that would be pointless and done simply due to the overhype of Rubico Prime. The gun is bad if you dont have a riven for it, plain and simple. You have access to far stronger Eidolon hunting weapons at MR0 in the shape of Kitguns, most notably max damage/max crit Catchmoon and Tombfinger. They simply outperform a non-rivened Rubico Prime any day of the week.

So for Eidolon hunting bounties MR5 is the appropriate level, because that is when you gain access to real amps and need the hunts to raise your Quill standing. Just like endgame in other games you start with entry level gear and advance the gear within the content. Slapping some silly MR12 or 13 requirement on it just leads to progressional inconsistancy that no one would understand.

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Recruiting chat exists, I always just go to public random bounty for eidolan hunt and I make sure I go rdy to solo, if others help great if not I'm rdy.  Eidolans are not to hard to solo if you go prepared for that and you typically get at least one other decent guy it's really not a big deal.

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Using public matchmaking for tridolons usually goes well enough to do a 2 x 3. Usually there's one semi noobie being carried which isnt a big deal since they're working their meta gear up to par, so they know their stuff but lack the gear . On rare occasions you get no noobies and can do a 3 x 3 in public. 

I admit that things go alot slower on the other semi rare occasions where you get two or more people who have a random frame with random weapons and the mote amp. 

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Been playing for years upon years and at mr 25, i have no clue what to do in a tridolon hunt. Never really done them because i refuse to center my schedule around the day/night cycle.

Its so vastly different from preparing and playing the rest of the game that the only thing id have over a lower mr player is just a couple guns and a surplus of energy pads. If you are mr 5 you basicslly have access to any warframe that would help out the team in some form for the hunt which is good enough in my book since experience is the biggedt time saver than having a good gun.

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3 hours ago, Sir_Carl said:

Why not just go solo if you can't find a decent squad. You could atleast do 1 tridolon (better than nothing).

A solution I can think of is to just MR lock Cetus/PoE. Make it not a requirement to progress to Mars (as it was before). 

Squad wide restrictions seem a bit much. What if I have a clan mate who's below MR10 and I want to help him do hunts? Say for example I urge him to use Trinity/Oberon to be useful and i'll take care of the rest. 

Lanka is another meta weapon for Eidolons and it requires MR10. So maybe MR lock Cetus/PoE to MR10? 

Also I doubt it's hard to find a group since even 20 minutes before night comes, the recruitment chat is already spammed by LF requests.

 

Hey,

Took it 5 posts to get something constructive and as I said - civil.

Not bad 🙂

 

Soloing Teralyst is a viable option. I agree.

And I agree: maybe restricting whole squad and denying it entrance to the Plains at the base of one of the people having too low a rank is a bit harsh.

But hey! You're talking about friend / clanmate - this is not random. Then maybe include a conditional requirement, branching of the previous one:

<IF> it is a person from Friends / Clanmates list ->> override previously established condition.

<ELSE> if it's a random squad... DO RESTRICT entry.

Or maybe: narrow the teams MR spread within a squad. Say... Allow MR 5-10 together, or 10-15 match up together... Ranges of MR.

 

Making PoE _NOT_ a requirement to go to mars works too 🙂 In fact, it should be taken for granted  - PoE is on Earth, Mars is... well - Mars 🙂

3 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

I mean... I can easily get to MR20 without ever touching anything from the Tridolon Meta.
MR doesn't mean you are good/bad at Tridolons.

It's all about the knowledge and the Rivens. Yes, Rivens, because a Rubico Prime without a Riven just won't cut it. So no point in talking about the Rubico Prime...

Btw. OP, before you come at me, I want to tell you that I'm MR27. So 3 ranks higher than you. Going by your logic I know more than you XD

 

Well, I got myself to MR 21 without ever touching Eidolons, so we're kinda in the same boat. And I am not going to "come at you" - I am trying to discuss the issue here.

And I disagree, respectfully, that it's all about rivens. When I first went to hunt Eidolons, I only had a Vectis P - NO Riven - and the hunt was a success. And I mean: "first" as in "first after I gilded my assembled amp". I am not talking about the Mote.

About that MR13 restriction: I figured, at this MR you've had to prove yourself in the tests... or better yet: you've passed the challenges that checked on your skills.... All those subsequent MRs checked some particular skills that you have to kinda got to be successful in Eidolon hunt. Well, I'm not talking about the 1-3 of course. But they'll teach you how to stay mobile, how to aim at a moving target, that kinda things.

 

Of course, having MR 28 doesn't always mean that you're adept at say... hacking. Using cyphers gets you off the hook on that. But I was speaking in general sense, not in particulars.

 

Best regards,

Galadh

 

Edited by Galadh
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8 minutes ago, Annnoth said:

Been playing for years upon years and at mr 25, i have no clue what to do in a tridolon hunt. Never really done them because i refuse to center my schedule around the day/night cycle.

Its so vastly different from preparing and playing the rest of the game that the only thing id have over a lower mr player is just a couple guns and a surplus of energy pads. If you are mr 5 you basicslly have access to any warframe that would help out the team in some form for the hunt which is good enough in my book since experience is the biggedt time saver than having a good gun.

Right on,

The MR 5 gives you basically access to most every warframe and weapons... maybe not the best, but viable to hunt Eidolons. And I was not implying anywhere that you have to hunt EIdolons with a end-game warframe, with superb and sky high abilities and outlandish mods.

Like you said yourself, it's skill / experience in using those warframes to defeat Eidolon / be a support in doing it that counts - and not one's MR.

I was also not implying that a Tenno who's not over MR 5 (or whatever) is clueless as a player in all aspects. I was only hinting at that maybe they don't have means / skills to defeat an Eidolon. It is perfectly fine with me, when a player MR 0 is taken into PoE by their clanmate/ friend who knowledge and skill to defeat said monster. It's perfectly fine to tutor and oversee (ease) the progress of friends.

However, once again, this would require an invitation to the squad, and not random matching.

My original idea only concerns that random pairing of Tenno.

 

Best regards,

Galadh.

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3 hours ago, Galadh said:

a player cannot enter Eidolon Hunt before achieving rank... say: 12 (MR of Rubico Prime). Or better yet - MR 13.

MR restriction won't make it convenient. MR of Rubico Prime doesn't mean that people has the Rubico Prime or doing good with it.

Tridolons duable even solo. So, there are no trouble if 2-3 can draw one through tridolons.

 

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Let's make a static rule / restriction - a player cannot enter Eidolon Hunt before achieving rank... say: 12 (MR of Rubico Prime). Or better yet - MR 13.

 

Quote

 

LameoveR said:

MR restriction won't make it convenient. MR of Rubico Prime doesn't mean that people has the Rubico Prime or doing good with it.

Tridolons duable even solo. So, there are no trouble if 2-3 can draw one through tridolons.

 

 

As I said: "say... 12 MR" <<- this means, it was just an example.

Ofc Rubico isn't the only weap for it. Heck, one could even do it with a Staticor, who am I to judge. If they manage that - WTG! I'm IMPRESSED!

 

Srsly, guys, don't put words in my mouth...

 

And one last time - this was all just an idea. And this thread I posted to get just this type of constructive discussion we're having here... Well, amongst some decent old-school veiled insults and comments 🙂

 

Best regards,

Galadh

Edited by Galadh
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3 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

I mean... I can easily get to MR20 without ever touching anything from the Tridolon Meta.
MR doesn't mean you are good/bad at Tridolons.

It's all about the knowledge and the Rivens. Yes, Rivens, because a Rubico Prime without a Riven just won't cut it. So no point in talking about the Rubico Prime...

Btw. OP, before you come at me, I want to tell you that I'm MR27. So 3 ranks higher than you. Going by your logic I know more than you XD

Yeah... I've seen MR 20+ players contribute practically nothing in tri caps and I've seen people under MR 12 actually put in the most work. It's not a good indication of skill to begin with and its especially not a good indication for eidolons, because some people either don't bother with them at all or only bother with them occasionally.

And I agree with you about rubico prime. Or even Lanka for that matter. Everyone loves to say they can one shot limbs without a riven but it seems like nobody can actually do it consistently unless they have like 14 different buffs going at once. And rest in pieces sniper riven dispo.

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Cant they just make a requirement: 

"Complete Saya's Vigil quest to be able to complete this bounty" 

Its far in the story, you already have an amp(bad but still). It would least prevent new players who dont have amps to play this bounty. 

I doesnt seem fair but there are other modes which are locked. You cant level up your frame in eso, you cant play arbitration unless you complete whole star chart, you cant kill profit taker without old mate rank. 

 

I know, I was also a new player who joined teralyst bounty only to watch because I didnt deal dmg at all. Now I can solo teralyst so public bounties are not a problem. Even if players dont deal much dmg, I carry them if there are no other experienced players. Im not experienced in tridolons because they are much difficult but teralyst is easy. 

 

You cant one hit with any weapon without any boosts. I rarely one hit teralyst synovia but this is achieved by lanka combo 2x or 2,5x, volt shields. Only two shoots are needed to break a synovia. Sometimes its rare crit which breaks at one hit. But its sometimes. 

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Tri-cap bounty definitely needs a higher restriction, especially when anybody can already go into free roam and fight them with no restrictions at all. Why it's the same as the Teralyst bounty is baffling. I'm obviously not expecting elite speed runners in pubs, but I don't think it's too much to ask for some level of competence, instead of clueless players that don't even know the basics you're supposed to learn from the Teralyst fight.

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3 hours ago, Galadh said:

And I disagree, respectfully, that it's all about rivens. When I first went to hunt Eidolons, I only had a Vectis P - NO Riven - and the hunt was a success. And I mean: "first" as in "first after I gilded my assembled amp". I am not talking about the Mote.

But it does turn into being all about rivens if you want things like Rubico Prime to be the best choice. Prior to getting those rivens the gun is quite lackluster compared to the kitguns you can obtain at MR0. It is actually sad how soft it hits eidolons even with the best possible non-riven setup when you compare it to something like a Catchmoon or Tombfinger.

So MR doesnt really matter in the end aslong as you've unlocked your amp. Research and knowledge is far more important, something MR wont give you any.

 

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I once ran into a group who all was using the mote amp. After solo the first bounty, someone repost teralyst bounty again. I switch to the mote amp for the lulz. Took us thirty minutes just to kill that thing. Not capture since no one went out to get lures. I was fine with the hunt. It's doable. Not effecient, but still doable.

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I think its nice to have Eidolons non restrictive to all players because its kinda part of the main story line now. A low MR player working on his/her level will most likely be hanging around plains, Doing bounties for The quills and Konzu. They will be mining, Hunting for wisps, Getting Revenant parts for mask girl, finding mats and exploring. At one point or another they will wonder in there at night and all hell will break loose. 

For me it was part of the whole learning process. I went in there oblivious with my default mote and had no clue about much. I consider it a right of passage to get your butt handed to you by one of those giant monsters. Forcing you to do the research. Craft your first amp and learn the mechanics. As you grow in experience with the plains people and eventually Fortuna people, Your amps will get better. Your gear will get better and you should have access to lots of good frames. As you grow as a player the Eidolons become easier. 

You kinda got no choice to go in there unprepared at first. You cannot just start eidolon hunting with the best of the best amps.  Almost everyone gets carried their first few runs. We repay the favor by carrying newer players down the road. I think the current system is fine. 

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