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Galadh

EIDOLON Hunt restricion.

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My only problem with this topic is I don’t think the op clicked the mission. I could be wrong but I go in with randos all the time and have never gotten a MR 0,2 before. 7 sure they are rare but nothing lower then 6.

So to me it sounds like the poster just walked into the planes at night and did not hit the mission in Cetus. This problem can’t be accounted for because it would require banning players from POE at night. I get I could be 100% wrong about this tho.

 

I think the only requirement for starting the 3 eddy mission is to do the 1 eddy mission once.

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I use only [DE]fault matchmaking function and still I can consistently do 2x3 and sometimes 3x3 if I get really good teammates.

If you want anything above 3x3 and you rely on DE's matchmaking the problem is on you coz you need a very specific team composition and a bunch of 777 amps and you should actively look for it.

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dont matter to me, i will carry them through the tridolon. if anything they should have to have the materials for the job, tridolons should be only after you crafted yourself an amp as well, since it takes just a handful of runs to have an amp that is infinitely better so you are not completely useless in the fight. thats my biggest peeve.

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I'd be 100% fine with restricting it to MR5 because that is the level at which you can unlock your mote, which is the bare minimum to be able to damage the Eidolon shields. Or more specifically lock it to completing the Mote quest regardless of MR level. 

That way you are at least guaranteed that whoever joins should in theory be able to at least contribute even if only minimally. 

Outside of that there is Looking For Group chat. 

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I would say open the Teralyst bounty to everyone while restricting the Tridolon bounty until you have crafted your first AMP (Mote Amp is a joke) or rank 2 The Quills or you have captured an Eidolon Teralyst once.

players who are restricted can still do Tridolon runs by starting a non bounty session.

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My vote is that you should need an amp, any amp, equipped as the bare minimum.  Someone in the group doesn't have an amp equipped?  Bounty gets rejected in the same way other missions get rejected if you don't meet the requirements.
"You need a full loadout to do rank tests."
"You need a secondary weapon for this mission."
"You need a shotgun for this mission."
"You need a level 30 warframe for this mission."
"You need an amp for this bounty."

Restricting it like that means that at a minimum everyone has the ability to help with all parts.  Maybe they can't do well because they brought crap weapons, but at least they have the ability to do something in terms of damage during all phases.  For random groups, this should be the bare minimum to ask for.

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Here is my opinion :

Should there be a restriction for starting the bounties?

Yes.

Should it be MR based? 

No

What other restriction is suggested? 

Build and gild any amp,

Complete at least 3 t3 bounties, this will unlock the Terry bounty. 

Complete the single eidolon bounty and capture Terry to unlock tridilon bounty. 

 

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17 hours ago, Galadh said:

Imagine: someday, at some time during the day (IRL), it is Night on the Plains in game. Shame you don't have anyone reliable enough to go  to the hunt with at that particular moment. But you are insistent and you decide to go anyway. So you get yourself into a random squad... BS-ing yourself that this will be the greatest hunt, at least 6 Teralysts / 2 Tri this night...

But oh... you land with - yeah, random - but also clueless players, say: Rank 0, Rank 2, and Rank 7
 

So pretty much 99% of my pubs, until I keep restarting and stumble upon a Trinity, which has lost it's way into PoE?

 

Let's make a static rule / restriction - a player cannot enter Eidolon Hunt before achieving rank... say: 12 (MR of Rubico Prime). Or better yet - MR 13.

Just add a quest "construct 2nd amp". Until then, only Terry. An MR8 could be more useful than an MR27.

 

achieving MR 13 proves that you really know how to aim your weapon

From my experience, the higher in MR you get, the less you need to aim, or use a weapon at all.

 

Players at MR 0 or 2, or even 7... Just don't cut it. And having them in your squad puts a real toll on you and the two squad members you are going with.

+1, people who believe getting carried in tridolons is excused because "they need to learn" are the cancer of the gaming community.
Then there are the others, always at MR 0-3, which "didn't know that they shouldn't have since they're new" despite the fact that they've not encountered an enemy above lv10, the bounty is 40+ and they still stay and leech.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, (PS4)SouthPhillySanta said:

Tri-cap bounty definitely needs a higher restriction, especially when anybody can already go into free roam and fight them with no restrictions at all. Why it's the same as the Teralyst bounty is baffling. I'm obviously not expecting elite speed runners in pubs, but I don't think it's too much to ask for some level of competence, instead of clueless players that don't even know the basics you're supposed to learn from the Teralyst fight.

And how on earth a "MR requirement" guarantees you'll only find competent players ?

Stop asking for restrictions everywhere OP. If you want to do 3+ Tricaps, don't go in PUGs. Or be as efficient as you seem to claim PUG to be and pull the group yourself.

I was always glad finding low-MR people in my Tricaps when I was doing them, because I enjoy helping people, have no urge of doing 6x3 every night, but most importantly, I don't judge players by their MRs. And MR6 Tennos are always happier to help/listen to your advices than MR15+.

You don't want to play with noobs ? Build an elite clan and avoid Matchmaking like the plague. But stop asking for automatic restrictions everywhere, that's the best way to kill Co-Op entirely.

Edit: if you're half as good as you claim to be, you can PL noobs through 2x3 easily, 3x3 if at least one of them is not totally useless. So I guess it's more a "you" problem if you can't achieve that. Are you expecting to be PL'd when tagging in bounties, so you'd like the system to avoid putting you with other similar players ?

Edited by Chewarette
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Any level restrictions are not needed. There are already logical MR requirements for certain weapons and gears. It all depends on how many sets of Eidolons you want to capture per night. 

Also, MR is “an” indicator of Eidolon hunting skill but by no means the only indicator. The very best indicator of Eidolon hunting skill and loadout readyness of a player is the total number of captures of Hydrolyst.

I have seen this over time, most players’ skill levels match how many Hydrolyst captures they have done. And there are difference between someone who has 0–50-100-200-500-750-1000 and more caps. You really can tell if you have done this many times as you join, recruit or be recruited by others with various skill levels hundreds to thousands of times. 

 

I have had few friends who were only MR13-15 but very experienced and with all the right loadouts. There are also many high MR players who are just literally newbies to Eidolon hunting. 

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If you knew how many mr20+ players I had in 4x3 teams, who turned out to be totally useless retards... 

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1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

And how on earth a "MR requirement" guarantees you'll only find competent players ?

Stop asking for restrictions everywhere OP. If you want to do 3+ Tricaps, don't go in PUGs. Or be as efficient as you seem to claim PUG to be and pull the group yourself.

I was always glad finding low-MR people in my Tricaps when I was doing them, because I enjoy helping people, have no urge of doing 6x3 every night, but most importantly, I don't judge players by their MRs. And MR6 Tennos are always happier to help/listen to your advices than MR15+.

You don't want to play with noobs ? Build an elite clan and avoid Matchmaking like the plague. But stop asking for automatic restrictions everywhere, that's the best way to kill Co-Op entirely.

Edit: if you're half as good as you claim to be, you can PL noobs through 2x3 easily, 3x3 if at least one of them is not totally useless. So I guess it's more a "you" problem if you can't achieve that. Are you expecting to be PL'd when tagging in bounties, so you'd like the system to avoid putting you with other similar players ?

You seem to be confused, because I never said anything about an MR restriction in my post, nor am I the OP.

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On 2019-06-10 at 4:06 PM, Galadh said:

Let's make a static rule / restriction - a player cannot enter Eidolon Hunt before achieving rank... say: 12 (MR of Rubico Prime). Or better yet - MR 13.

Okay this is where I stopped Reading because this is straight up bull S#&$....

Heres exactly where your problem is:

On 2019-06-10 at 4:06 PM, Galadh said:

But oh... you land with - yeah, random - but also clueless players, say: Rank 0, Rank 2, and Rank 7 (my real life occurence!) So, basically, you have to decide: either back out (losing the time of the night - hey, not everyone has the high-end machines, designed only for playing games :D) or... try to do this by yourself alone, dragging those first-timers on your tail too. Hey, you'd have to be a Superman to make it. And when it's three Eidolons? You don't have a chance, cause they will probably won't even know how to put those shards in the Garatoth Lake.

Im sorry but you went with Pubs and got screwed.... Deal With it....

The thing that really grinds my gears is that you weren't even screwed by malicious players.... you were screwed by New Players were were merely curious...

Personally whenever this happens to to me I say lets see it through to the end.... fact is as long as there are 2 of you or more... then you can keep Reviving each other until you take out the eidolon....

When I used to carry new players through these hunts with volt.... literally the only thing I asked them to do was please revive me.... I can do the rest.... 

So no....  I say #*!% it.... its a Free Country.... if you complete Saya's Vigil then you have just as much right to be there as anyone else.

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Posted (edited)

No.

We have a small amount of elitism in this game and as far as I'm concerned that is more than enough.  We don't need anymore.  I'd rather have a game type that places a battle royale inside an auction house where the only frame available is the old map blind Mirage than have players alienated because someone else felt they needed to git gud.

Edited by (XB1)Thy Divinity

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Yeah there should be a restriction. 
Having an amp should be the most basic restriction. Kinda against about MR restriction since anyone can be a MR20 and still suck bawlz coz they spent their lives in Hydron. 
Next is Eidolons should only spawn when the bounty is taken, so free-roaming at night shouldn't spawn one and you shouldn't be matched with squads that are only on free-roam.
The quest on Konzu should not appear if you don not have an amp equipped.

For a harsher restriction then maybe have at least 1 focus skill maxed. While it can be anything and completely irrelevant for eidolon fight, this at least sorta guarantees you that a player has been playing long enough to know the basic mechanics of the game. So they're probably used to switching back and forth to operator, they probably know how to dodge attacks and ofc they probably have a decent build and weapon to go with.

What this restriction will only do is prevent players who are severely undergeared for the fight, mainly those who do not have an amp.
I don't think it's possible to stop bad/weak players from accessing it tho, so if you really want to have a good run, you use the recruit chat or join a clan/groups and setup your own squad.
However, a basic restriction like having an amp should at least make public matchmaking a little more desirable coz you're thinning out the "heavy burdens" from the pool.

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В 10.06.2019 в 17:06, Galadh сказал:

Let's make a static rule / restriction - a player cannot enter Eidolon Hunt before achieving rank... say: 12 (MR of Rubico Prime). Or better yet - MR 13.

Why not 5 or 7? Because players usually don't know enough about the ways of the game at that ranks. And I am basing this on the requirements for the MR tests!

Playing Trinity (occasionally Harrow or Oberon) with Lanka (MR10 req) without a riven. And it takes me about 4-5 shots for a limb with perfect crits/multishots. In randoms I often out-dps all those fancy MR25+ Chromas with Rubicos and whatsnot. Mostly because having a meta frame/weapon/mr doesn't equal skill. When a co-worker happened to leak he is playing too, I took him for eidolon at his MR being like 7, he did more dps with regular Vectis than whatever dps frames were around. Mainly because he new what to do (he's the type of person to google for guides before doing anything) and it's pretty hard to die when you are covered by Trin/Harrow.

And don't even make me start about Velocitus thrown into the equation. You can get this s*** at MR 0 if you really want and have spare plat.

В 10.06.2019 в 17:06, Galadh сказал:

achieving MR 13 proves that you really know how to aim your weapon, how to avoid attacks and how to be mobile enough to evade enemies while hitting the Eidolon hard and effectively.

Also I often wonder what are MR20+ people are doing on tridolon while running Saryn/Banshee/Excalibur/etc with Strun/Ignis/Paris equipped. MR \= brains. I can understand bringing Inaros cause being not dead helps, or Octavia cause dmg buffs (if she can stay alive that is), but I have no idea how Banshee or Loki can help.

Matchmaking is a matchmaking, you don't expect people to be ideal there all the time. I frown upon leechers as much as the next guy, but if I see something like that, I just leave. If you are in a hurry to achieve something with hunts or just want every run to be successful, you should use recruiting chat.

I can hyperbole the whole thing. 

  • Team has not meta frame? Reject.
  • Someone doesn't have a riven? Reject. 
  • Not Madurai/Unairu focus tree? Reject

I agree with the idea that at least an apm should be present though. That's the only logical restricting to have as others already pointed out, though I've seen a guy who bought Harrow for plat and was hunting without even operator unlocked. 

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Posted (edited)

The only way to join any public tridolon squad and know for sure that everyone in it know the mechanics we’ll enough,

Is to make pub tri squads available only to those that have solo’d a 1x3 first!

Like how about make us earn our way in by using our own skill instead of allowing the ability for some to be carried in or lazily scabbing their way in.

Those that haven’t earned their way can still be invited (invite only squad) until they gain the knowledge and skill but until then no randomly joining pub.

MR means poo!

Rivens mean poo!

Ability and knowledge mean everything in a tri hunt, (well maybe not a 1 or 2x3)

Ive been in pub squads with MR27’s that have 0 caps.

I’ve been in a random pub squad with no warframer being over MR16 and pulling off a 5x3 +1. 

Having said this though, I always have fun on random pub hunts and because I don’t  go in expecting too much from anyone, it doesn’t effect me negatively and if I want to do 5x3’s, I use friends or chat.

 

Edited by kikasnoob
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Posted (edited)
On 2019-06-10 at 10:58 PM, Bagadyr said:

Cant they just make a requirement: 

"Complete Saya's Vigil quest to be able to complete this bounty" 

Its far in the story, you already have an amp(bad but still). It would least prevent new players who dont have amps to play this bounty. 

I doesnt seem fair but there are other modes which are locked. You cant level up your frame in eso, you cant play arbitration unless you complete whole star chart, you cant kill profit taker without old mate rank. 

 

I know, I was also a new player who joined teralyst bounty only to watch because I didnt deal dmg at all. Now I can solo teralyst so public bounties are not a problem. Even if players dont deal much dmg, I carry them if there are no other experienced players. Im not experienced in tridolons because they are much difficult but teralyst is easy. 

 

You cant one hit with any weapon without any boosts. I rarely one hit teralyst synovia but this is achieved by lanka combo 2x or 2,5x, volt shields. Only two shoots are needed to break a synovia. Sometimes its rare crit which breaks at one hit. But its sometimes. 

Actually, I am most in favor of such a resolution of the problem.

Maybe a "static rule" that I had written about before is not the best idea. Maybe it would be better to make a restriction that'd be based on something mentioned here or similar...

 

Say... restrict from entering the bounty for Eidolon / Tridolon for players who don't have a self-made AMP. And I don't mean a Mote (as someone said: "the Mote is a joke") - I mean an AMP constructed by a player who actually wants to commit to the hunt.

I mean, something like Konzu never even showing a bounty for Eidolons in his bounty list... for such players - who didn't build the AMP themselves.

This is so much better from what I proposed initially. Good thinking guys 🙂

 

Galadh

Edited by Galadh

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On 2019-06-12 at 5:20 AM, kikasnoob said:

[snip]

 

Ability and knowledge mean everything in a tri hunt, (well maybe not a 1 or 2x3)

Ive been in pub squads with MR27’s that have 0 caps.

I’ve been in a random pub squad with no warframer being over MR16 and pulling off a 5x3 +1. 

Having said this though, I always have fun on random pub hunts and because I don’t  go in expecting too much from anyone, it doesn’t effect me negatively and if I want to do 5x3’s, I use friends or chat.

 

Agreed.

I am only concerned when suddenly I have a 0+2+7 MR players (that ACTUALLY HAPPENED to me) dragging along, without an AMP (not even a MOTE) - so clueless (meaning: totally inexperienced).

And mind you all:

I am not for restricting lower MR players from entering PoE to hunt Eidolons... but _ONLY_ if they are invited by someone else into a squad - so as to learn the ropes, so to speak.

When I have invited a guy, I take the responsibility for their... lack of expertise. But when I an randomly arranged into a squad like aforementioned...

 

I am not concerned with MRs. Please understand: that was only an example to illustrate the main issue. Heck, some Tenno could even use a Staticor for all I care. And be like rank 5 or 7... Still, I would like to be allowed to take on the responsibility for players that _I_PERSONALLY_ invite, knowingly, keeping in mind that they are still learning - or beginning to learn, for that matte.

What I am against is for the RNG desiding for me. Well, I know, I know - most MMOs today are based on strictly RNG algorithms... still, it would be nice to at least have some say in the matter.

And to quote:

 

Ive been in pub squads with MR27’s that have 0 caps.

I’ve been in a random pub squad with no warframer being over MR16 and pulling off a 5x3 +1. 

hell yeah. I also seen those. On several occasions the three guys got to the Eidolon first and already have dropped one of its synovia before I even reached them with my lure behind me... Still, this doesn't mean that a MR 0 should be paired with someone who really know what it's about without the latter knowledge / say...

 

Regards,

Galadh

 

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I'm going to be as civil as humanly possible with this response. -deep breath-

USE. RECRUIT. CHAT.

It is not the fault of matchmaking and lack of restrictions for players not aligning to your standards, the moment you click "Public" you lose any ability to complain about the access other players have to content because you CHOSE to not to put in any effort in finding a team.

This is the same in every Co-op MMO-esque game on the market that has automatic matchmaking, you either roll the dice with random players or LOOK for players who are on the same page and circumvent the random aspect entirely.

Look for others who share your mindset, you cannot hold an entire community and matchmaking system to a standard that measures outright nothing, a player could be MR30 and build every combination of Amp in the game and still have the IQ and skill of an eggplant.

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