Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

I Find Myself Becoming More And More Bitter As The Days Progress


Luminati07
 Share

Recommended Posts

Incoming novel!

 

There is NO tl;dr.

If you are not fond of reading, exit this thread.

 

Original post.

Ok.

I'm sure you all know the (hilariously absurd) prices of the newest clan-tech.

Hence, the reason for me creating this thread.

 

When I first played Warframe, I loved it.

I joined in closed beta, just after the Grineer Asteroid tilesest were released (i believe).

 

A couple months later, and I joined the forums, asking for help with Phorid.

 

My love for DE was paramount.

They were releasing quick fixes, new weapons, new tilesets. It was a dream come true after dealing with Tribes: Ascend, BF3, and countless other F2P MMORPGs.

 

I was one of DE's White Knights early on. I would come to their defense all the time. Something was broken? I'd defend them and say that DE will fix it ASAP.

And, they usually did.

 

Before I start, I could have my timeline wrong. So, bear with me.

 

Then Mod Packs came along.

I expressed my displeasure with Mod Packs, but I still defended DE. Because, I thought they'd change them.

They did not.

 

Mod Packs still remain as one of the worst things in the market.

If you're hunting that mod you've spent weeks farming, but because of the hilarious RNG, it does not drop for you.

You spend 90 plat, hoping that the 2 guaranteed rare mods will be what you are looking for. 

But, you  get Chaos and Bastille.

 

RNG not giving you the mod you need? Better spend real money on more RNG.

 

_________________________________________________________________

 

Fast forward a little bit. 

I was still defending DE. Still claiming that the changes and fixes will happen.

Then. Resources, Credits and Fusion Cores in the market.

 

Resources. 30 Platinum nets you 3000 (?) of a common resource

30 platinum nets you 300 (?) of an uncommon resource

And, 10 platinum nets you 1 rare resource.

 

Now, that's not the worst part.

15 platinum ($1) nets you a single Mutagen Sample, Detonite Ampule or Fieldron Sample.

single sample/ampule.

That's $10 for a single Mass, Fieldron or injector.

 

Sure, you can farm for them.

But, how is that an excuse for these utterly ridiculous prices?

 

Now, Fusion Core bundles.

When these were announced, I said they were riding that extremely fine line of P2W.

But, when they were released, all I could do was laugh.

 

Each pack only gives 3 cores. THREE!

90 plat for the highest pack.

1 guaranteed rare, and 2 have a chance of being rare.

chance. If I'm paying more than $5 for three Fusion Cores. I would sure as hell expect more than that.

 

Not to mention, these aren't even guaranteed as Rare 5. These could be Rare 1.

 

Now. The worst of the lot. Credit Bundles.

90 platinum for the highest bundle. 30,000 credits.

 

When these were released, Void III netted you ~75k credits. That's 10+ minutes to get you over twice of what the credit bundles could.

Did DE even think this through?

Were you guys wasted one night, and just wrote down the first numbers that appeared in your minds?

Christ.

 

_________________________________________________________________

 
Here's when I start to get bitter.
The clan dojo costs.
 
When they were first released, it seemed like absolutely zero consideration went to any clan with less than 50 players.
A connector room costed something like 15 Forma, and 20k+ of the other materials.
 
At the time, I was fortunate to have about 70+ players in my clan, and we could steadily create rooms.
 
Then came DE_Steve's famous line "Instant gratification"
Now. THIS is when I started getting &!$$ed off.
 
Small clans are a part of every single MMO out there. 
You can't just neglect them and say S#&$ like "They want instant gratification".
Sure, huge clans should be able to progress faster. Small clans should not get left in the dark.
 
This has since been fixed, so that's all I will say
 

_________________________________________________________________

 
Sigh, then came the Orokin Void.
 
DE_Steve teased in the livestream prior to their release that there would be some "Cool and exciting ways of reaching the void"
What do we get?
Farming defense missions and void key packs for platinum.
 
Are you @(*()$ kidding?
Don't tell us that you have some very cool ways of getting to the void, then make us farm defense missions to wave 5 over and over.
 
There are plenty of examples of DE saying things that are definitely not representative of what will happen/what is true.
 
Several months down the line, not a hair of these "cool" ways has been seen. We still have defense mission farming and platinum packs.
 

_________________________________________________________________

 

 

Transmutation

 

Ok, now is when I really start to get bitter

 

Steve mentioned that the type/polarity of a rare mod would influence the result. And it was basically working as intented (but he will look at it. Gee, when have I heard that before)

 

Then, multiple screenshots appear of people getting some useless ability mods after putting in 4 rares.

Several of these screenshots were using no abilities and no duplicates in these transmutations.

 

Who's idea was it to put ability mods in the transmutation system?

You think I'm going to spend 36k credits for a @(*()$ Bastille mod?

No, If I'm transmutating, I'm hoping for multi-shot, Serration or some other rare mod.

 

More RNG, just what we all @(*()$ wanted.

_________________________________________________________________

 
Clan Emblems
 
I did voice my opinion quite loudly on this issue.
150 ($10) platinum to upload an emblem.
 
If this is refused for whatever reason, that's $10 down the drain.
 
That's not what gets me.
A staff member has to wade through the submissions. It makes sense for there to be an upload fee.
 
No. What broke the camels back in 50 different places for me, is the fact that every single member has to pay 30 platinum to sport the logo.
 
I've played plenty of MMORPGs out there, and almost every single one let the clan leader upload an emblem for free, and it was instantly displayed on every single member.
 
What is the point of spending money on a logo, if half your clan members won't even be showing it.
 
At this point, I was starting to become pretty damn bitter on the forums.
 
The Market
 
This is where I snapped.
 
I'm overjoyed to be talking about this. /sarcasm.
 
I posted my thoughts in quite a lengthy thread titled " The market. And why, in its current state, will be Warframe's downfall"
I stand by my opinion.
 
The market in Warframe is one of the worse I have ever seen in a F2P game.
 
Here's an example
Dual Skana - 130 Platinum
Skana - 150 Platinum.
 
It's like DE threw some random number out there and went with it.
 
$10 for a @(*()$ Skana? Are you kidding me?
 
Every single item in the market needs to be looked at, and overhauled (with the exception of potatoes and Forma. Those are reasonable)

You keep on releasing more content, with increasing prices.
$15+ for a weapon. And up to $25 for a single Warframe????
 
Go back and sort this S#&$ out.
 
 
Orokin Derelict
 
Do I even need to explain?
Sure, Nekros isn't too hard to farm. There's constantly people in region chat doing Golem runs.
 
No, the issue is the Mutagen Samples.
The prices of the new clan-tech is a different story. But, this just adds insult to injury.
 
The fact that the new clan-tech has such utterly terrible resource costs, is only projected further by the fact that you can only get mutagen samples in these new tilesets.
 
You want the new clan-tech, but are not a fan of the Orokin Derelicts? Suck it up. You have to go to the derelicts to get Mutagen Samples.
 
A DE staff member said in council chat (AFAIK) that this was a bug.
Bug my &#!.
They were removed from every single planet, and the starmap was changed to show Detonite and Fieldron.
 
Then, Scott says that they were moved as an incentive to keep playing the derelicts. It seemed like some DE staff didn't even know the right answer.
 
Now. Forcing me to play in the new derelicts if I want clan-tech is not a @(*()$ incentive.
That's just going to irritate me even more.
With new tilesets, I shouldn't have to be forced into them.
I should want to play the derelicts because they look great, have unique things attributed to them, cool secrets/traps and are very interesting. Not because the devs force me to be there.
 

_________________________________________________________________

 
 
Fast forward to today.
Let's discuss the fun subject of the new clan-tech prices.
 
Synapse
11 Mutagen Mass
30,000 Salvage
3,500 Circuits
3 Forma
 
Djinn
15 Mutagen Mass
30,000 Salvage
3,500 Circuits
3 Forma
 
*Sigh*
So.
First, you remove Mutagen from planets.
Second, you force us to the Orokin Derelicts.
Third, this.
 
You seeing the issue here?

How long must I farm these @(*()$ derelicts for these resources.
 
When I first saw the price of the Synapse, that was my last remaining respect point for DE (Now, sitting on something like -150 billion respect points)
 
Steve constantly says that they are working on RNG, and they are trying to minimize grind, but then they do S#&$ like this?
"Hey everyone, we need some content to keep our oldest players here. Any ideas?"
"Let's put in more RNG and more grind!!!"
"GENIUS!"
 
I'm not going to say anything more on this issue. It's been talked and argued to death.
 

_________________________________________________________________

 
 
Ending notes.
 
DE, I hope you take a serious look at your direction.
Power creep, price creep, the utter S#&$ that is the market etc.
 
Please, for the love of God, use update 11 as a proper polishing update.
 
Finish off the content you are working on, then please fix the glaring issues.
Fix as many bugs and issues as you can.
 
Dojo grey screen bug?
UI lockup?
Friend not currently in a game session?
Session is full?
/unstuck?
Power Creep?
Market?
UI overhaul?
 
There are so many issues that have been around for so long.
 
I don't care if update 11 is delayed by a month. The game is supposedly releasing in November.
The game is not ready for an official release. Not even close.
 
Please, use Update 11 as the release patch. Sort this S#&$ out.
 
Thankyou to those who read my novel.
 
This is not intended to be a full on rant. This is my plea to Digital Extremes.
I love Warframe. I can only think of one other dev that I would gladly give $250 to. That is CD Projekt Red.
 
I do not want to see Warframe go under. I really don't.
But, at this rate, it probably will.
 

 
There you have it.
My life story.
 
*Edit 1*
Platinum discounts, market discounts and lore.

Platinum Discounts
 
Lothlaine reminded me of the platinum discounts.
 
DE knew about the complaints with the market.
It seemed like they didn't want to change the prices, so they introduced a band-aid.
 
Platinum discounts are good, and should stay.
But, some people (not so much Lothlaine) stand firm and say that the platinum prices are fine. They use the argument that you can use a plat coupon, and the prices are reasonable.
 
Now. Do you see the issue?
You have to get a coupon of 50%-75% off to feel like the platinum prices are reasonable. There's something seriously wrong if that's the case
 
Market Discounts
 
The new daily deal system is nice, but, yet another band-aid.
You shouldn't have to get a discount for something to be reasonable.
 
The current deal is the...Stealth bundle iirc, and it's still something like $25 just for a few weapons. Most of which just feel like re-skins, and are not unique at all. (except the Glaive, I believe that is in the bundle)
 
If DE is using this new system as a way to justify the awful market prices, then that's a kick in the teeth with a steel capped boot.
 
Lore
 
Ah, lore.
So many players, including myself, have been waiting for lore.
 
We were teased with 'Vor's Prize', and told that the episode is coming soon.
Then, what?
It's been something like 2 months, and not a single piece of lore or information has been released.

It seems like DE knows that we want lore, and they thought that this little teaser was enough to get the heat off their backs.
Someone mentioned that in livestream #13, they couldn't even remember the name of the episode.
(Don't quote me on that, I didn't watch livestream #13)
 
If that's true, then I find that truly hilarious. 
Yet another example of DE telling us something, then doing something else entirely.
 
I understand that they mentioned Vor's Prize in livestream #14, and said it's coming.
 
But, why the hell would you tease the lore release 2 months ago, then put it completely off the radar?
Don't tease something unless you have the full intent of releasing it.

 
*Edit 2*
Livestreams

Livestreams
 
This may seem like something trivial. But, I stayed up until 3:17 am to watch livestream 14.
 
Those who watched will probably know what I'm talking about.
 
I sat through it all, hoping they would actually get to the questions.
But, alas, they never came.
 
The whole thing was a mess.
Rebecca would try to ask a question, then they would all sidetrack for 25 minutes.
Steve came along to discuss some things. Then, everyone got sidetracked for the rest of the stream.
 
That livestream did no favours for DE.
 
Please, DE.
Make livestream #15 professional.
Answer questions. Answer a lot of questions.
 
I don't care at all if you don't tell us what the next prime is. I don't care if you don't show us any concept art. I don't care if you don't show us any weapons.
Use livestream 15 to try to restore some faith. Note down questions (don't ignore the important questions that get dozens of upvotes)
 
Again, make it professional.
Split it up into sections.
Section 1: Discussing glaring issues. Balance, nerfs, buffs. 
Section 2: Answering important questions from the livestream thread. Important questions.
Section 3: Answering lighter questions from the livestream thread. Less important questions.
Section 4: Stream questions.
 
I'm not asking you to be all serious and everything. Have a laugh while you answer things, but again be professional.
The last livestream was a @(*()$ mess. Please don't do that again.

 
*Edit 3*
Ced23Ric's resignation

Well, Ced23Ric has resigned as community moderator.
His open letter of resignation was...disheartening to say the least.
"my behaviour is not desired and that my lack of experience in game design makes my demands for changes inappropriate."
"Nevertheless, during that time I also expressed my impression that Warframe is becoming more and more disheartening."
 
It's a sad state of affairs at the moment.
The forums are just filled with disheartening posts.
From the Orokin Derelict issues, infested weapon costs, datamined void drops to the resignation of a com mod.
 
There are plenty of threads and posts of players expressing their concerns.
Some are warranted, and share a similar theme as my own. Some are rants. Some are unhelpful.
Nevertheless, the forums have seen better days.
 
Something like seeing a com mod leave on terms like this is surprisingly saddening...
 
I'll take this time to express my sadness (again) to see Ced leave.
tumblr_m8ojbcznQ61rz5p5po1_500.gif

 
*Edit 4*
DE's apology

 
Included in here is my response to DE's apology.
 
Before I start, I am hugely appreciative of this. There aren't many devs out there who would do something like this.
 
This addresses the issue of the infested weapon costs and the void drops (to an extent, still just pure RNG).
 
Most of my points are still valid though.
What is being done about issues that have been in the game for months?
 
At this point, it's actually quite hard for me to outright accept their apology.
How can I trust them enough to not just take this as yet another smokescreen by them?
 
I'll hold off on judgement for now, but I will be keeping a sharp eye out for any more bs, and am taking the apology with a kilogram of salt.
 
I'll re-iterate my comments about the livestream.
Please, for the love of God, make livestream 15 professional, and not a complete mess like livestream 14 was.
 
Answer a lot of questions. Don't give us the age old excuse of "it's being worked on" for every answer.
Tell us exactly what is going on.
If you have no intention of sorting something out. Tell us.
 
In all, I appreciate the apology, but we need word on everything else.
Infested weapon costs and void drops were only the tip of a massive iceberg.

 
*Edit 5*
RNG, grind, and farming

RNG and Grinding
It's about time I discussed my thoughts on RNG, and its place in Warframe.
 
Before I start, I do not believe RNG is an inherently bad thing. It's the way that games implement it, and, in Warframe's case, rely on it.
 
Dilution
This is a big one in Warframe.
Because DE has such a heavy reliance on players farming the Void, they are continuously adding new content to these missions.
Enter: Dilution.
 
DE states that dilution is the cause for the latest drop rates fiasco (though, I am inclined to believe otherwise). Due to them adding so many items to void mission rewards.
 
With each part addition (~3 per weapon/Warframe), the drop rate for everything else decreases.
 
There are ways to fix dilution. Most of which I think DE will probably refuse to do.
 
First, a token system.
So many players wish for a token system that will allow them to effectively buy the part they are missing.
Goodbye dilution, goodbye frustrations, goodbye abso-@(*()$-lutely awful mission RNG.
 
Second, let the game see your inventory and increase the chance of giving an item you don't have.
This one is easier than the token system. But, again, I don't believe DE will implement this.
 
Grind
Grind.
An ever increasing problem in Warframe.
 
Every single piece of recent content that I can think of, has quite a substantial element of grind associated with it.
Infested weapons, Orokin Derelicts, Void missions, Vor + Kril etc.
 
The reason that all the content is simple grind is because that's what the core mechanics are.
 
The current state of the game basically dictates that any equipment requires grinding. That's not the big issue, every F2P game has grinding to an extent. The problem is the complete reliance on grinding.
 
Getting normal weapons aren't too hard, it's the weapons/Warframes that require RNG mission rewards.
I could run a void mission 4 times and get every item I need, while a friend could run it 100 times and only get 3. See the issue here?
 
RNG in its current state is bs.
 
DE_Steve constantly reminds us that they know that grind is an issue, they know that RNG is an issue, and they are working on it.
The more he says it, the more I think it's complete bs.
 
Want less RNG and less grind? Time to pay 15 mutagen and 3 forma for an infested clan-tech. (has since been fixed. Doesn't change the fact that this went against everything Steve said)
 
On top of that, mutagen samples were changed to be exclusive to the Orokin Derelicts. If that's not a complete $&*^ move, I don't know what is.
I don't even need to elaborate on that. Anyone can glance at that and realise what a @(*()$ joke it was.
 
Farming
I neglected to mention Warframe farming.
This does come under the same precedence as grinding, but I thought I'd give it its own section.
 
Farming for Warframes.
Yet another example of irritating RNG.
 
I could farm Jackal 5 times for Rhino and get all the parts, or  I farm him 20 times and only get 2 parts. Just like the issue with the Void.
 
An easy-ish solution would be for the game to inspect your inventory and increase the chance of getting the part you don't have.
 
The thing is though, the actual RNG isn't the most annoying part here. It's the monotony.
I'm more than happy to run 15 missions to get a new Warframe. But, when those 15 missions are the exact same S#&$ over and over, that's when the problem starts to arise.
 
Boss farming is so bloody monotonous and dull, it can seriously drive players away.
 
There needs to be variety in farming for Warframes. This requires some kind of a fundamental change, of which I am unsure of.
No matter how you do it, the monotony of boss farming must be fixed. This is a massive factor in whether a player quits or stays.
 
______________________________________________________________
 
I'll say it again, just like I did in the lore section.
Don't say/tease us something, then completely neglect it.
 
Do not tell us you are working on RNG, you know grinding is an issue, and are trying to lessen it, and then come up with S#&$ like that.
 
Things like that are what loses playerbase. 
While you will always have some loyal players, constant empty promises will eventually turn them.
It's exactly what happened in my case. Don't let it happen to everyone else. Please.
 

 
*Edit 6*
Band-Aid mod "fixes"

Ok, a point that I believe...Ced23Ric reminded me of.
 
The awful band-aid mods.
The main one here being the Ice level -> Shield reduction mod and Handspring
But, all the others come into play as well.
Laser resist
Fire resist
Poison resist
Ice resist
Handspring
 
These were mostly released around the same time, and the forum was pretty active in voicing its opinion.
These mods are utter S#&$. There's no nice way to put it.
 
The fact that the super mobile Tenno recover from a knockdown so god damned slow was a constant topic.
 
Instead of increasing the speed (why the hell does a Tenno even take so @(*()$ long to stand up???), they give us handspring...
 
This should not be left to a mod.
This should be a core mechanic.
 
They proceeded to say on the livestream that "this is for some variety. It's for the people that asked for this".
No it's @(*()$ not. Nobody asked for knockdown recovery to be tied to a mod. They asked it to be fixed. Christ.
 
I simply cannot understand the train of thought that went into this.
Which DE member actually sat down and thought that this was a good idea??
 
What did this achieve?
1. It &!$$ed off players.
2. It decreased the drop rate of other mods due to the ever increasing dilution
 
Sounds like a victory for DE in my book. /sarcasm
 
Do not use some awful mods as an excuse for you to act like you've fixed anything. You haven't.
This goes for anything in the future as well.
 
I know I'm sounding extremely bitter right now, but that's the point of the thread.
I've gone from one of your most supportive players to this
 

 
*Edit 7*
Weapon variety

Before I start, this one is basically my own personal opinion. As I said in my most recent post, I come from games such as UT where every gun feels different.
This part is purely up to personal opinion. Some of you may love the current weapon variety, some of you may not.
 
This one is definitely not on the priority list, and I do not see it changing. Again, this is more of a personal one.
 
Weapons
Ok
DE has been releasing the Tenno reinforcements, which is great. But, 95% of these weapons are completely unoriginal.
They're basically reskinned versions of each other, with some stat changes.
 
Giving us "new" weapons with some different damage, fire rate and/or accuracy values will only go so far.
We need weapons with new and unique mechanics. Not just some different stats.
 
I don't mind if it's 2/3 weeks in-between reinforcements, if that means that we will get a truly unique weapon, sign me up!
 
Let's look at some examples.
 
Soma - Nothing special. Just your standard rifle with some different values,
Grakata - See: Soma
Miter - Kinda different. But, at the end of the day, it's just another projectile "sniper". This one's a bit more unique than the rest.
Twin Gremlins - Nothing special at all.
Paris - Kinda different. Bows are always cool.
Kunai - Might look different, but it's still just your standard sidearm. It just has blades
Pretty much every melee weapon - Honestly, there's barely any different between melee weapons. Different stats, that's it.
 
Over a long period of time, this will hurt the game. These weapons are already starting to become incredibly stale, and there's little point in getting new weapons apart from mastery/power upgrades.
 
How to remedy this?
 
Secondary fire modes.
Add these to all/most of the current weapons. 
Give each weapon a unique secondary fire mode. That way you have the basic primary fire that we currently have, with a different secondary that is useful for a particular situation.
The Braton family could just have a basic grenade launcher. But, the prime/vandal versions could have special grenades.
 
Miter could be given exploding blades just like the Ripper in UT. Could knock enemies back a few meters as well.
 
Ogris could launch proximity mines as a secondary.
 
Those are just some very basic examples, but would add a lot to gameplay, and reduce the boring monotony.
 
Paris/bows could be given trap bolts, just like in Bioshock. They send out an electrified tripwire from the tail.
 
Melee weapons
Melee weapons suffer from this issue far more than the guns do.
 
How to remedy this?
Unique mechanics
 
Let's look at longswords first.
What is the difference between them? I can't think of any.
 
They're all the same boring slash. 
 
The whip sword sounds cool, but is it going to be different?
If it's just going to have its own animations, but still be the same 'slash away' type of style, what incentive do I have to make it? Apart from having a new weapon.
 
A whip sword has huge potential, give us the opportunity to wrap it around enemies to drag them to the ground to finish them off. Give us the opportunity to wrap them and fling them into other enemies. Does that sound more fun than just slashing away? Sure as hell does to me.
 
Hook swords have been suggested several times.
They already have potential to add new mechanics.
 
Using them as a dual wield = Low range, faster attack rate.
Press whatever button to link them together = double the range, slower attack rate, higher damage.
 
Even something like that would do wonders to break up the current bore that is melee variety.
 
I'll probably add more to this, but I need to go to work soon.

 
*Edit 8*
Weapon builds

Like edit 7, this one is another personal one
Though, I do see this subject on the forums quite often.
 
As it stands, the weapon builds are quite...dull to say the least.
If you're interested in endgame (what little of it there is, anyway), you're going to be almost forced down a set path.
 

There's basically 2 builds that people use. Crit builds, which are only viable on a select few weapons. And the rainbow build.
The main thing is, there are 2 essential mods.
Damage mods - Serration, Point Blank, Hornet Strike
Multishot - Split Chamber, Barrel Diffusion, Hell's Chamber.
 
Once you get them, that's basically 2 of your mod slots that must be used.
I have two main issues with these.
 
1 - Farming.
This ties directly into my issue with farming.
Without multishot and/or damage mods, you are at a severe disadvantage later on. You could be farming for weeks for these mods, and still fail to get them.
2 - They're basically essential.
Rather than get 8 mod slots, you're forced into 6.
 
Before I begin the next part. Damage 2.0 is coming, and I have zero idea how that will change things
 
In my opinion, damage on weapons should be upped (or enemies hp/shields/armour reduced) and damage/multishot mods should be removed.
 
It makes for quite a boring game when there are only 2 effective builds. Those being crit and rainbow (elemental).
The current mod system does give quite a bit of potential, but when guns rely on damage so much, it basically nulls any that potential, which is saddening.
 
Plenty of games out there have ammo/reload builds.
Maxing your max ammo, magazine size, rate of fire and reload speed is often a great way to play. But, that's pointless in Warframe because you're handicapping yourself so much.
(Yes, I know some weapons can use this effectively)
 
Obviously a "reload" build is a bad example, seeing as it only uses 4 current mods. But, that could also be built on.
 
Obviously removing multi-shot and damage mods would seriously annoy those who spent so long upgrading them. So, it's doubtful that DE would remove them.
If they did, those with high level multishots/damage mods should be rewarded in some way.
 
Ending notes
The current system could stay, and be built upon.
But, in all honesty (imo), as long as we have multi-shot and serration, builds will always be limited.
 
The "best" mods that DE releases are basically just more damage mods.
Lethal Torrent, Blaze, Accelerated Blast, Hammer Shot.
All these do is just limit you to builds even more.
 
Sure, having damage/crit builds is fine. But, it's a problem when those are the only viable builds.

 
*Edit 9*
The Design Council

Ok, again, more of a personal one.
 
This is not going to be complaining about how little the DC gets or anything like that.
 
Before I start, a little about what the Design Council is.
 
There are many misconceptions about what the DC is about.
Some people think we all talk with the devs about what's coming, we create threads for them, and we basically form the game. That is completely untrue.
 
We can not create threads.
DE creates threads/polls.
 
Most of it is just previewing upcoming items (that get leaked within an hour), and occasionally voting on weapons/Warframes.
 
Now that's out of the way, my issue with the Design Council.
 
Polls
I don't care if the stuff gets leaked, I barely even post on the Design Council anyway.
No, my issue is with the polls.
 
Let's look at Nova and Carrier.
The name choices of Carrier and Nova, and the power choices of Carrier were almost universally disliked.
 
In the brainstorm threads, there were dozens of other ideas for both, which were miles better than what we received.
 
What do I want out of these polls?
A "None of the above" option.

This should be added to every Design Council poll.
So many people out there vote for the sake of voting, they don't want their vote to go to waste. So, what do they do? They vote which one is the "best worst" option.
 
Most of the more recent polls (Warframe theme, Sentinel name, Sentinel power, Warframe power) had some serious backlash on the vote options.
Having a "none of the above" option gives a real gauge of popularity, rather than what we currently get in the Design Council.
 

 
*Edit 10*
Livestream 15

Right.
Ok.
Let's see...
 
DE knows there are dozens of threads on the forums regarding communication, glaring issues, and flat out disappointment.
 
I know I'm not alone when I said livestream 14 was a mess, and 15 should be purely for explaining everything, and telling us what's going on.
 
DE knows that the forums are full of players wanting answers.
So, what do they give us? A livestream for concept art.
 
Really??
"Art Director Michael “Mynki” Brennan and concept artists Eric, Mike, and Zeljko will join Rebecca on the couch to talk all things “Concept Art!”"
 
Right. Exactly what we all wanted.
 
I get that art is an interesting thing, and it's cool to see. But, considering the displeasure that has been present on the forums for weeks now, this is just...A kick in the face, to be honest.
It's getting to the point where it almost seems intentional.
 
 
Well. My hopes that livestream #15 would be about actually talking with us, and explaining what's going on in detail, have been dashed.
GG no re.
 
(Yes, I cannot see the future, so I don't know what livestream 15 will be like. But, considering the announcement, I'm not holding my breath.)

 
Edited by Nugget_
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You make some excellent points there OP. And you are correct in pointing out flaws.

 

I'm still at the stage of defending DE, and still love this game, but I'm not going to put a long response here, since I wouldn't do it justice.

 

My point would be, sure there are changes and stuff that I don't agree with, but I'm still going to trust DE to do the right thing here and do a re-balance of some stuff in future. 

 

Plus I see myself as playing this game casually, even though I have nearly 400 hours in game and am at rank 9... I also have the typical New Zealand, She'll be right attitude, so I'm not overly bothered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a newer player, I find the Mastery Rank 8 more painful than the actual cost on the Synapse.

 

I need to grind 30.6 more weapons to rank 30, before I can make it.

Don't rush to the endgame, slow down and enjoy yourself, otherwise you'll burn yourself out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quiet a wall (if not even the chinese wall of texts) but i have to say, i completely agree with you on EVERY point you stated i your post.

 

from grind to market to rng on rng to pricing etc. this game is really going down the drain if nothing is to be done. sadly all i hear is that famous sentence "instant gratification" and even more grind being put into the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You make some excellent points there OP. And you are correct in pointing out flaws.

 

I'm still at the stage of defending DE, and still love this game, but I'm not going to put a long response here, since I wouldn't do it justice.

You will eventually get past the DeDefender stage like the rest of them.

 

@lilNugget I feel your pain man but really alot of us have tried to constantly point these problems out to DE. I feel like our job here is done, we tried, nothing has really changed. Nothing more for us to do than sit back and watch how this all turns out.

 

I know ill mostly be done posting on the forums again in a few days like i was after U9, since at this point its a waste of time and energy.

Edited by theclinton
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't rush to the endgame, slow down and enjoy yourself, otherwise you'll burn yourself out.

I'm pretty much there, already. I have 4 rank 30 potatoed warframes, 3 potatoed primary weapons(2 of them maxed with forma), 2 potatoed secondaries, and potatoed Dual Zoren.

 

I already have all the weapons and frames that have caught my fancy, bar the Synapse... and I would have to grind 30 weapons out to get that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a newer player, I find the Mastery Rank 8 more painful than the actual cost on the Synapse.

 

I need to grind 30.6 more weapons to rank 30, before I can make it.

 

Don't rush to the endgame, slow down and enjoy yourself, otherwise you'll burn yourself out.

this ^ Best advice I could give to a new player nearly. Slow down. Enjoy the game more.

 

OP: 100% agree with you, +1. Anything I could say, you said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can completely understand where you're coming from OP and your points are entirely valid. But, because, as you do, I've loved Warframe since I started playing in early July, I want to remind you of a few things. Despite all of the fairly accurate problems you listed, compared to similar games such as Vindictus, which is where I came from, Warframe is so much better. 

The reasons:
1st. Although there is heavy grind involved, especially in the case of the new clan weapons, you can get every weapon and frame without paying a cent. Indeed, you can't even pay for the clan weapons. I know this doesn't seem like such an incredible thing to people, but in true P2W games the best weapons can only be bought with real world money.

2nd. In games with thoroughly absurd RNG like Vindictus- the chance to enhance your weapon to the maximum level +15 without the aid of enhancement runes that prevent the weapon from being completely destroyed is something like 1 in 2000. While I fully acknowledge that there are extremely unlucky people who have been grinding the void for months to get a specific prime part, the lowest drop chances I've seen in the wiki are still above 1%. This isn't saying that a 1 in 100 chance for a blueprint or part to drop isn't likely to lead to a massive grind but there's at least a fair chance- and you aren't risking something that you spent months building in the process (reference to Vindictus enhancement).

3rd. Platinum itself. So far I've purchased the hunter's level of the founders pack, because I wanted to support a game that I found extremely enjoyable (and get a shiny excalibur to boot). That's it. But, if I'd wanted to buy another 1000 platinum, it would only have cost me $12.50 because I got a 75% platinum discount as a daily reward. While it's true that the platinum prices compared to a number of other F2P games with cash marketplaces is high, the fact that if we do want platinum and have patience we can get that platinum at vastly discounted prices is a pretty great thing in my opinion.

4th. The Grind. Yes, this game has a huge grind aspect to it, but I think this is only natural. This game, at least to me, is not about a story or an endgame per se. It's about being an increasingly badass space ninja. I don't honestly see most of the game as a grind because I'm continuously building and playing with new weapons and going back and trying different combinations of old weapons. Additionally- compared to Chinese/Koreans MMO's this ain't no grind it's a walk in the park. (Not really pertinent, but damn have you tried some of them?)

5th. You are a space ninja in space. Nuff said. This game may not be wildly creative, but in a world where 90% of the mmo's you're going to play include a Warrior, Mage, and Rogue as the starting class in a world where you must venture forth and defeat a great evil, or you're a nameless grunt fighting in the endless wars between democracy and a totalitarian government of your choice, Warframe is at least moving in a newish direction and has some creativity.

6th. DE updates and patches frequently. There is more work being done on this game in a month than some games see in an entire year, and the degree to which DE tries to work with their community is something I have not seen in any other MMO that I have ever played.


TL;DR The OP's comments are 100% valid and accurate. I absolutely hope that these issues will be fixed in upcoming updates as well. However, people should keep in mind that compared to the rest of the F2P MMO market Warframe is definately a game worth supporting.

Edit. This isn't intended as a defense of DE so much as an honest evaluation of my experiences with Warframe compared to other F2P games.

Edit 2. I actually think the OP brings up a really good point with his comments on the Platinum pricing as a really awkward kind of band aid solution. The thing is- Platinum without a discount does cost a hell of a lot for what you get in return. But I also think that if you are patient enough to wait for that platinum with the 75% discount then you're getting a huge bang for your buck. In an ideal world I'd like to see platinum costs cut by 50% with DE keeping a 50% discount (to get to current 75% levels) as a daily reward. But even then that would only work if they also bring the prices of items in line. The dual skana to skana comparison perfectly shows that the prices for weapons (I feel warframe prices were more thought out) were made with little thought to overall structure and power level.

Edited by Lothlaine
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do agree. I feel that only Reactors, catalyst, and slots are fairly priced. I think too many games suffer from too high of prices, but right now DE is repeatedly stubbing their toes on this pricing structure. Other than Cores, and other anti farming purchases, which granted still should be lower, are the only really pay to win ish stuff in the game. Certainly you lose some of the hard work/reward if you buy it, but I think you hurt yourself a lot more if you don't make it easy enough to buy stuff. Also I think the 20% off coupon for platinum is a joke and should be removed. I really appreciate the 50%-75% off...those actually motivate me to drop a little cold hard cash, so I can afford my slots and potatoes. I am getting alarmed at my inability to acquire formas....Thank you for writing what you did. I think I would be prone to cuss less, but I think you put into words some pressing issues. I do hope DE does pay attention to some of these things, as market pricing could be a one day thing. 1-5 dollars for weapons 5-10 dollars for frames, and 1-5 dollars on the cosmetic stuff. DE needs to foster creativity in the design and loadout, Most of the weapons in this game are fairly viable up til end game content so foster people to try new things out, hey if they spend any money you generally make out better, than if they look at the ridiculously priced frame or weapon and decide that the value or price point isn't worth it..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can completely understand where you're coming from OP and your points are entirely valid. But, because, as you do, I've loved Warframe since I started playing in early July, I want to remind you of a few things. Despite all of the fairly accurate problems you listed, compared to similar games such as Vindictus, which is where I came from, Warframe is so much better. 

The reasons:

1st. Although there is heavy grind involved, especially in the case of the new clan weapons, you can get every weapon and frame without paying a cent. Indeed, you can't even pay for the clan weapons. I know this doesn't seem like such an incredible thing to people, but in true P2W games the best weapons can only be bought with real world money.

2nd. In games with thoroughly absurd RNG like Vindictus- the chance to enhance your weapon to the maximum level +15 without the aid of enhancement runes that prevent the weapon from being completely destroyed is something like 1 in 2000. While I fully acknowledge that there are extremely unlucky people who have been grinding the void for months to get a specific prime part, the lowest drop chances I've seen in the wiki are still above 1%. This isn't saying that a 1 in 100 chance for a blueprint or part to drop isn't likely to lead to a massive grind but there's at least a fair chance- and you aren't risking something that you spent months building in the process (reference to Vindictus enhancement).

3rd. Platinum itself. So far I've purchased the hunter's level of the founders pack, because I wanted to support a game that I found extremely enjoyable (and get a shiny excalibur to boot). That's it. But, if I'd wanted to buy another 1000 platinum, it would only have cost me $12.50 because I got a 75% platinum discount as a daily reward. While it's true that the platinum prices compared to a number of other F2P games with cash marketplaces is high, the fact that if we do want platinum and have patience we can get that platinum at vastly discounted prices is a pretty great thing in my opinion.

4th. The Grind. Yes, this game has a huge grind aspect to it, but I think this is only natural. This game, at least to me, is not about a story or an endgame per se. It's about being an increasingly badass space ninja. I don't honestly see most of the game as a grind because I'm continuously building and playing with new weapons and going back and trying different combinations of old weapons. Additionally- compared to Chinese/Koreans MMO's this ain't no grind it's a walk in the park. (Not really pertinent, but damn have you tried some of them?)

5th. You are a space ninja in space. Nuff said. This game may not be wildly creative, but in a world where 90% of the mmo's you're going to play include a Warrior, Mage, and Rogue as the starting class in a world where you must venture forth and defeat a great evil, or you're a nameless grunt fighting in the endless wars between democracy and a totalitarian government of your choice, Warframe is at least moving in a newish direction and has some creativity.

6th. DE updates and patches frequently. There is more work being done on this game in a month than some games see in an entire year, and the degree to which DE tries to work with their community is something I have not seen in any other MMO that I have ever played.

TL;DR The OP's comments are 100% valid and accurate. I absolutely hope that these issues will be fixed in upcoming updates as well. However, people should keep in mind that compared to the rest of the F2P MMO market Warframe is definately a game worth supporting.

Edit. This isn't intended as a defense of DE so much as an honest evaluation of my experiences with Warframe compared to other F2P games.

As much as I agree with the Original Poster +10, I agree with this post +100 

I played Vindictus and when they tell me that in order to get a specific color option i gotta roll some RNG...and then it was like hey For Your Information as you approach endgame content all you will be doing is rolling up some RNG....I got to the point where I was like I love the gameplay, but hate the game.  So many cool things in Vindictus destroyed or trolled into obnoxiousness by RNG. 

 

Also this is the only F2P I have ever supported, and I have played probably 100 or more....

 

I hate to make this correlation, but think App store pricing. $1-5 is what sells. $15 better change my damn life....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty much there, already. I have 4 rank 30 potatoed warframes, 3 potatoed primary weapons(2 of them maxed with forma), 2 potatoed secondaries, and potatoed Dual Zoren.

 

I already have all the weapons and frames that have caught my fancy, bar the Synapse... and I would have to grind 30 weapons out to get that.

Is that all?

I own 55, FIFTY FIVE, weapons. 50 of them are potatoed. Five of them have at least one Forma on it. I own only five Frames, but they're all potatoed and rank 30. My Rhino is rank 22 with three Forma. My Mag is rank 20 with one Forma.

I am the only person in a clan who's dojo has every single amenity except the new vanity rooms, with everything but the new Infested weapons researched, with the Embolist 16 mutage short of being funded (Which, by the way, I cannot fund because the Derelict still crashes every time I've ever tried to do it)My clan is technically a Mountain Clan. I have the Barracks.

Even with all that, I've taken my time and successfully avoided most burnout.

I am still confident in this game.

But that confidence is constantly, constantly, taking hits with every update. Every update in which the Devs put in a game changing/breaking new system change without a hint of a warning. Every time I look at my foundry and see that I don't enough circuits for the pile things I need to craft. Every time I look at what I have to do to get my next weapon (I have a dozen more empty slots!), I go "Oh...well I can focus on the dojo for a bit." I can't do that anymore. (First off I should really start recruiting...) I have t delve into the content on my own now. Granted, that's what I've been doing this whole time. (I refuse to not solo non-defense/bosses. If I set my ping limit higher than 100 the entire star map is dead, save two people on Xini and one person every other boss. Which is an entirely different mega-issue)

I agree with OP 100%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it's a gear treadmill, and if they keep going making everything more and more powerful while increasing the cost and mob powers just to give players a fake incentive that "there is something to do", I don't think I'll be playing the game much longer. I started playing the game to escape from that.

 

If I was a new player I would not touch the game right now, simply because of all the vertical progression that's been added over the last few months.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am in your very position as well. I was devout and vocal when I praised DE's abilities. Every time my faith was shaken, it was restored in a few days...however...we have reached a point where they start JUSTIFYING issues instead of fixing. i.e. Soma has serious placement and balancing issues, Scott pats himself on the back for it. ALL of the new research weapons cost arm and a less to make, the Nekros blueprint is 100,000 bloody credits on top of the farm? "gotta give you guys your end game". 

 

Power creep is my largest issue with the game right now, especially with them JUSTIFYING it. However, that does not mean that the rest of the game is perfect.

 

I'm telling you DE, STOP focusing on additions now, WE HAVE ENOUGH CONTENT. We need this game straightened up before anything. It's imperative that you focus on the attributes that many of us appreciated from the beginning: the company that listens to the community; the company that has a vision that is MORE than making profits; the company that makes a FUN game.

 

Please DE, find your roots, focus on polish. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing that's been bugging me since the informer event: Exclusive mods. Mods are the most important thing, they turn little weak guns (soma) into not so little weak guns (soma with full crit build), but some of them are STILL exclusive, i.e. primed chamber, ammo mutation. I'm glad the other ones (shred, vigor, lethal torrent) were added to the nightmare drop table, but we haven't seen a return of the other ones yet (even though ammo mutations were stated to not be exclusive, or not confirmed as exclusive, can't remember which)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good post, i have to agree at most (Which is a shame)

 

DE disappoints me on a regular basis. Broken promises like; Warframe is no PvP game, Grinding will be reduced, etc. did their part)

 

Im around since closed beta and back then, when everything was a bit uncertain and everyone knew the big potential of the game we were anticipated about the direction Warframe will go. Now its just a generic Grind and Farm game and im very sorry for all the new players, starting from scratch, that have to experience Warframe like it is now.

 

Edit; I may live with the PvP unless im not forced to do it for content (Like; This and that only drops in Conclave missions, etc)

Edited by corpseshock
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...