Jump to content
breakdafunk

Why Spin2Win is hated so much?

Recommended Posts

On 2019-06-13 at 1:03 PM, Jiminez_Burial said:

As stated by DeMonkey, the people who hate spin2win also hate those Warframes.  And at the end of the day it's not really the act itself that annoys us, it's the fact that you obviously didn't need to join a squad in order to be as efficient ('cause you're gonna one hit everything anyway) and yet you still did.  Do that in solo and no-one will complain.

In solo mode there are so little enemies that makes the game boring af.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like it cus it hurts my pinky pressing ctrl over and and over again, plain and simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

   Nuke frames are usually equally as hated as spin2win. While I haven't used meme strike, I find ranged heavy blades to be equally as efficient. It's really the only way melee works in the meta. You have dozens of guns fully capable of killing instantly a row of enemies with melee lovers chasing after them just to watch as a catchmoon does in half a second what would take you 2 or 3 seconds to do.

   The problem isn't that spin2win is cheap or OP, it's one of the few practical ways melee stays relevant. Channelling setups are kind of a joke with the weak mods for it, physical damage gets beat out by the 60/60s, and shorter range weapons just aren't effective when the levels ramp up. There's so many broken mods that do so little to diversify what should be the most varied and visceral form of combat.

   To anyone that really truly hates the current melee meta, why does it need nerfed? Why not give better incentives to using the other classes of weapons rather than nerfing one of the few good methods to the ground? Melee weapons is some of the least used in the game. Would making that usage number be even lower really accomplish anything?

Edited by (XB1)Almighty Deity
  • Applause 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

In solo mode there are so little enemies that makes the game boring af.

So you instead go into a public lobby and potentially make 3 other people's gameplay experience boring?

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

So you instead go into a public lobby and potentially make 3 other people's gameplay experience boring?

If this is your view in this, then complaing to devs, not to player who want to have fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

If this is your view in this, then complaing to devs, not to player who want to have fun.

Can this be conveyed in an understandable way?  Are you telling me to complain to the devs because of an issue I have with people (who are not the devs)?

*Edit*  I guess your tense is wrong since changing it at least makes a logical interpretation possible.  Is English your first language? (and don't infer that as an insult)

Edited by Jiminez_Burial

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

Can this be conveyed in an understandable way?  Are you telling me to complain to the devs because of an issue I have with people (who are not the devs)?

If you are too slow and hit too little to kill enemies fast enough, ofcourse others will kill them before you even get to the enemy. This is not a problem of other player, it is your personal problem or problem in gamemode it self. If you want linear experience where you can go at your own phase, then you can go solo as well or try to friend someone who is at around same level as you are and go friends only. Only thing I can recommend is to git gud to be honest. What comes to game mode like survival, this is where gamemode has a problem vs nuke. This can be countered for exmple by making it so that all players would have spawns around them evenly so you can just go into some corner and cry there away from nuke players. Or change game modes so solo player can get difficulty and rewards of group play. Crying to players who kills enemies faster than you makes no differense. I personally would love to see game modes that are more based around other things than just to kill enemies, but sadly I'm no dev nor some frame superstar that has the influence to make this happen. 

Edit: Or add matchmaking setting where you can only que with players around your MR if opted in. Tho this might not fix the entire problem. 

edit2: And alot of the gamemodes, exterminate, sabotage, capture, assassinate are run simulations anyway, you run to target, kill something and run out. Since this is parkour simulator and not wow like mmo where you actually need co-op to take out high lvl enemies sadly. 

Edited by Gamalahalaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

If you are too slow and hit too little to kill enemies fast enough, ofcourse others will kill them before you even get to the enemy. This is not a problem of other player, it is your personal problem or problem in gamemode it self. If you want linear experience where you can go at your own phase, then you can go solo as well or try to friend someone who is at around same level as you are and go friends only.

Yet another person I need to quote myself to.

"Your assumption is that I don't play solo most of the time.  I'm not one of those people who complains about stuff and keeps doing what they're doing when there's a way out, I took the way out.  If I'm doing basically anything other than random fissures then I do choose solo.  I'm just explaining why we hate it.  And before you make another assumption and ask "Well if you plat solo all the time how do you know you hate spin2win", there was a time when spin2win wasn't as prominent as it is now.  Yes coptering meant people were doing it but they didn't have the broken mods we now do, nor did we even have whips/tonfas.  When it became common is when I became a mostly solo player.  If I don't have much time a particular day I might even take a basic spin2win melee and put it on my Ember/Equinox but the key difference is I always make sure I'm solo, I never subject others to it.  It all come down to basic courtesy - I get physically angry when someone knows very clearly that what they're doing is annoying a total stranger (obviously friends doing it to each-other is fine) and they just don't give a damn"

It's not a matter of me being "too slow", it's a matter of me not wanting to play in an equally spammy way as many others do.  (here comes another self quote because really I've said this all before)

"Yikes, again someone assuming.  I actually prefer to more through a level at speed killing enemies with headshots in a way that requires physical mechanical skill rather than playing in a manner that could be accomplished just as easily with a macro"

A common theme I see running across many people's argument when they hold your view is that we are lesser players for simply not wanting to play the game the way you do, and when we're put into matches with people spinning to win (which to make it clear, doesn't happen often for me SINCE I PLAY MOSTLY SOLO) that our desire to have fun is somehow less important than yours (rather than it being equal).  I also won't complain to DE about stuff like this because as I have made it clear, I see it as an issue with the people not the game.  There are means for you spin-to-winners to get in a group together and leave others alone (or to select solo) yet you just can't be arsed doing it because you're not the one suffering because of it.

PS:  There needs to be a way to quote comments made on a different page.  If I copy/paste from either dark or normal theme it's gonna be ugly for someone.  And if people have noticed this is no longer a problem it's because I typed this all out again word by word because I know it irks some people.

Edited by Jiminez_Burial
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

Your assumption is that I don't play solo most of the time

This is something I cannot know, and you complaining about others implies other wise. So pardon my horrible assumption.

6 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

there was a time when spin2win wasn't as prominent as it is now

I know, but since all gamemodes are based on kill stuff fast, the fast way is the way a lot of players want to go about.

7 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

If I don't have much time a particular day I might even take a basic spin2win melee and put it on my Ember/Equinox

How very dare you good sir! 

8 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

I get physically angry when someone knows very clearly that what they're doing is annoying a total stranger (obviously friends doing it to eachother is fine) and they just don't give a damn.

I can somewhat understand this, but not in this case. If you are stoping others from advansing in mission, like take solo elevator and intentionally break glass after you get tru the room so others are slowed down.

 

11 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

It's not a matter of me being "too slow", it's a matter of me not wanting to play in an equally spammy way as many others do.

I can respect this, but it also means you has to go solo in game like this where movement is fast and idea is to kill enemies. 

 

13 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

I actually prefer to move through a level at speed killing enemies with headshots in a way that requires physical mechanical skill rather than playing in a manner that could be accomplished just as easily with a macro.

Me too, this still doesn't mean you cant do this wihle othes spin and you kill with headshots. 

14 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

A common theme I see running across many people's argument when they hold your view is that we are lesser players for simply not wanting to play the game the way you do

They are doing the objective slower, you are free to play as you wish this doesn't mean others need to change their playstyle just because you (general you) want to play game differently than me. If game mode is to kill target and get out, thats what I'm gonna do, and you can explore all you want but I'm still going to do the objective and getting out. 

 

17 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

our desire to have fun is somehow less important than yours

And our desire to have fun by being fast and strong is somehow less important than yours to be what ever the f you want to do. This exact argument works both ways here.

18 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

I also won't complain to DE about stuff like this because as I have made it clear, I see it as an issue with the people not the game.

Then don't complain at all, by doing this you are trying to force other playes to play like YOU want. So now you think you have a right to make other people not enjoy the game how they want to play. 

 

21 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

There are means for you spin-to-winners to get in a group together and leave others alone (or to select solo) yet you just can't be arsed doing it because you're not the one suffering because of it.

So you require others to do work of getting group together for you or suffer the low difficulty of solo missions, which is the problem with gamemodes I mentioned. 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

People won't change, better to make a complaint for devs, and if someone's "toy" get destroyed, they'll be mad.

Better to make some other way to co-exist, such as non-meta only matchmaking.

Edited by Test-995

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-06-13 at 11:53 AM, breakdafunk said:

CTRL+E

???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

This is something I cannot know, and you complaining about others implies other wise. So pardon my horrible assumption.

And if you don't know THEN ASK!!!  This is something else I hate about people.  (If you notice a trend by now, it's that I don't like a lot of people because they do dumb lazy S#&$).

56 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

I know, but since all gamemodes are based on kill stuff fast, the fast way is the way a lot of players want to go about.

Which is fine, but don't affect other people with it (and also don't assume that everyone is fine with it - really just stop assuming anything people, it's getting pathetic).

56 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

How very dare you good sir! 

Hey when I'm solo I can do whatever the hell I like XD

56 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

I can somewhat understand this, but not in this case. If you are stoping others from advansing in mission, like take solo elevator and intentionally break glass after you get tru the room so others are slowed down.

I'll ask again because it will provide context and depending on the answer will allow me to give you more leniency - is english you first language?  It took me a couple reads of this bit before I was confident that I understood what you were saying.

56 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

I can respect this, but it also means you has to go solo in game like this where movement is fast and idea is to kill enemies. 

And as stated before I do go solo exactly because of that.  The difference though is that where my playstyle can exist besides other playstyles, spinning-to-win often means that no other playstyle is possible because there's nothing left to fight.

56 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

Me too, this still doesn't mean you cant do this wihle othes spin and you kill with headshots. 

As stated above, it actually does mean that I can't because everything is dead and I'd have to run a max speed Volt (of which the speed boost is another thing I can't stand) in order to keep up with spin-to-winners because they usually use a movement modifying ability in conjunction with spinning.

56 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

They are doing the objective slower, you are free to play as you wish this doesn't mean others need to change their playstyle just because you (general you) want to play game differently than me. If game mode is to kill target and get out, thats what I'm gonna do, and you can explore all you want but I'm still going to do the objective and getting out.

But the people who are doing "the objective slower" are doing so because they enjoy gameplay that isn't just the same 3-4 buttons being pressed in the same order every second over and over again.  Just because they are slower than you doesn't mean they're lethargic - that would be like someone who placed 1st in a race saying that the person who placed 2nd was just as fast as the person who placed last.  If all you want to do is complete the objective fast then you can do that in solo.  If you want the extra spawns then recruit the squad.  Your playstyle is actively hindering the playstyle of others so you should show more consideration.  Look at it mathematically in terms of who it affects to what degree and you'll see that spin2win probably has the greatest negative affect on other playerstyles (more so than the old Limbo Stasis playstyle that meant you couldn't use anything other than abilities or melee).  Discounting the weighting of effect, at best spin2win is equally as disruptive as you say slow playstyles are (but you'd need to brainwash me for that conclusion to sound reasonable) so you shouldn't act like others are the only ones that need to change but rather that maybe both groups need to change.

56 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

And our desire to have fun by being fast and strong is somehow less important than yours to be what ever the f you want to do. This exact argument works both ways here.

As I have stated above, you're not considering the weighting of effects.  Also, yes it does work both ways so if I went solo (which many of us have) then you should also.

56 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

Then don't complain at all, by doing this you are trying to force other playes to play like YOU want. So now you think you have a right to make other people not enjoy the game how they want to play. 

No I am not.  Again, weighting of effects.  This isn't the same as simplifying a mathematical equation, one half of the equation isn't the same as the other.  I'm not forcing you to give up spin-to-win, I'm asking that you take it someplace where it doesn't negatively affect other people.  Would you say that restaurants with a no smoking policy are forcing you to quit smoking?

56 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

So you require others to do work of getting group together for you or suffer the low difficulty of solo missions, which is the problem with gamemodes I mentioned. 

No, I'm asking consideration to be shown both ways.  And again it's not for me since I moved to solo long ago (begrudgingly), it's for everyone who still wants to play public without rolling the dice every time they enter a mission as to whether their ENTIRE gameplay experience is removed from them.  And don't take this as me being offended or angry on the behalf of a group I don't speak for (like SJW culture does), but take it as someone who has already lost the personal fight but is willing to argue on behalf of the people I was once one of.

Edited by Jiminez_Burial
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

And if you don't know THEN ASK!!!

I honestly don't care. This is a nonpoint. Assumptions are made based on your actions, live with it.

32 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

Which is fine, but don't affect other people with it (and also don't assume that everyone is fine with it - really just stop assuming anything people, it's getting pathetic).

Stop opposing you will on others and let us play as we want to play. If I get matched with mr4 Im not going to bullet jump enemies to death just so we can play at equal speed.

34 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

is english you first language?

No, but I try my best.

34 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

As stated above, it actually does mean that I can't because everything is dead and I'd have to run a max speed Volt

You definitely can keep up with most spin to wins with parkour, you just cant kill as many mods as spins can. But next your are going to complain that arca plasmor or catchmoon can kill multiple enemies at once. Which also takes away from our imaginary mr4 who still uses mk1-braton.

39 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

But the people who are doing "the objective slower" are doing so because they enjoy gameplay that isn't just the same 3-4 buttons being pressed in the same order every second over and over again.  Just because they are slower than you doesn't mean they're lethargic - that would be like someone who placed 1st in a race saying that the person who placed 2nd was just as fast as the person who placed last.  If all you want to do is complete the objective fast then you can do that in solo.  If you want the extra spawns then recruit the squad.  Your playstyle is actively hindering the playstyle of others so you should show more consideration.  Look at it mathematically in terms of who it affects to what degree and you'll see that spin2win probably has the greatest negative affect on other playerstyles (more so than the old Limbo Stasis playstyle that meant you couldn't use anything other than abilities or melee).  Discounting the weighting of effect, at best spin2win is equally as disruptive as you say slow playstyles are (but you'd need to brainwash me for that conclusion to sound reasonable) so you shouldn't act like others are the only ones that need to change but rather that maybe both groups need to change.

Here again, this goes both ways, if you want to go as slow as you want you can as well go solo. So don't tell others that they shouldn't be fast because others are slow. Why you constantly feel its your place to tell others how they can or cannot play the game? This also count for things like excalvation, I can either kill enemies that come too close or I can let others kill them slowly and find drill dead moments later because they couldn't the enemies. The group finder is there so it auto finds a group, and unless you are willing to advocate for game to change so its better for everyone I don't think you can expect others to change either. And by hinder you are specifically refering to exterminate I ASSUME since in other gamemodes I personally rater just run past useless mobs. So slow player can do what ever the f they want. And no, spin2win isnt even the worst, nuke abilities is way stronger in terms of clear speed. Tho I do remember old Limbo when we didn't have a way out if limbo put us in his plain, those damn trolls. And I do not think either is disruptive, slow and fast game styles are just incompatible in a way that slow players cannot play slow if fast players have already done the mission, this is why I would recommend slow players to git gud n fast or go solo. Since you have no right nor cannot expect that others play like you want them to play. 

 

1 hour ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

As I have stated above, you're not considering the weighting of effects.  Also, yes it does work both ways so if I went solo (which many of us have) then you should also.

Multiplayer game where you kill enemies with others and only way to play is as slow as the slowest player in the group or you has to play solo. Sounds quite damn boring you know. Here again if I happen to match with mr4 you cannot expect me to bullet jump enemies to death just because he haven't learned how to parkour yet. 

1 hour ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

No I am not.  Again, weighting of effects.  This isn't the same as simplifying a mathematical equation, one half of the equation isn't the same as the other.  I'm not forcing you to give up spin-to-win, I'm asking that you take it someplace where it doesn't negatively affect other people.  Would you say that restaurants with a no smoking policy are forcing you to quit smoking?

So again we need to play by the speed and skill of the lowers player just to weight of effect. sigh* Yes I can use 15min to kill all 30 enemies in E-prime, but I'm not going to. And your non smoking example has nothing to do with this. It would be more like when I want a steak and go to restorant and vegan cashier tells me that I need to go home and cook my own steak cuz he doesn't want me to eat steak where he is. 

1 hour ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

No, I'm asking consideration to be shown both ways.  And again it's not for me since I moved to solo long ago (begrudgingly), it's for everyone who still wants to play public without rolling the dice every time they enter a mission as to whether their ENTIRE gameplay experience is removed from them.  And don't take this as me being offended or angry on the behalf of a group I don't speak for (like SJW culture does), but take it as someone who has already lost the personal fight but is willing to argue on behalf of the people I was once one of.

I know I come out pretty negative in this, but the problem I have is that as the game is now, it cannot be played in multiple ways in same group. So this is why I rater advocate improvements in game side not complain about people. For example my argument in spy missions is that spy missions should have redeem mechanic not flat out failed mission. So high lvl players wouldn't rage quit when ever they see low mr players or when alarms go off and you sill have time to complete the room (this is something I do not even do but it happens really often) I do think queue system needs improvements to set if you want to host or to join others games or dont care. So there could also be que option if you want to match with low med or high mr players or dont care. Maybe even rp or normal run option. I do not know how to implement there in a way to make them easy, but I agree as it is now there are problems. 

 

I would also like to see warframe move more to group play side of things, since now all missions feel solo missions with doors that require 2 players to open them time to time, and there is no need for supports or cc and stealth is only bonus for spy missions. So CC and support frames would have much greater roles. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Gamalahalaf said:

It would be more like when I want a steak and go to restorant and vegan cashier tells me that I need to go home and cook my own steak cuz he doesn't want me to eat steak where he is.

This is honestly the only point I can be bothered arguing since the rest of it is either a language barrier, you simply not knowing what I'm meaning (since you keep bringing up the lowest common denominator argument when my 1st/2nd/last place analogy was the direct explanation of why lcd doesn't apply here) or we have such fundamentally different views on what imposing our wills on someone means that the argument isn't going to go anywhere.

Using your scenario, it's more like the meat eater hears that the cashier is a vegan and then walks over to them with their steak and aggressively eats it in the vegan's face all the while screaming "you can't impose your will on me!!!".  What I am asking spin-to-winners to do is rather choose a seat a reasonable distance away from the vegan cashier so they don't have to smell/hear you eating your steak.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Test-995 said:

People won't change, better to make a complaint for devs, and if someone's "toy" get destroyed, they'll be mad.

Better to make some other way to co-exist, such as non-meta only matchmaking.

It's a bit annoying for the argument to always be to nerf rather than to buff other weapons to put them on par. That's why we have so many dead weapons and frames. They usually (but not always) start out good but get nerfed to the ground.

The Itzal isn't the problem it's the sub 1.0 speed on all but 2 other archwings. It's for the same reason spin2win isn't the problem here necessarily. You can make status-only that blow hybrid meme strike builds out of the water. You can build critical to never need it. The solution is clear, buff other melee weapons. If DE wants them to be at all viable for casual use nerfing will only make kitguns and primaries that much more lopsided.

And for the record I don't even own a meme strike. I haven't felt the need to get it. I've got very little skin in this argument.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(to clarify my little bit about my s2w'ing, I mean using spin attacks sometimes... I don't own the mods needed for the meme build. I gave one of the mods away to a friend for free, since the acolytes haven't been around since he was strong enough to fight them. So, personally, I wouldn't be harmed by them nerfing s2w... as I said, I liked my polearm quick-attack melee, and they already ruined that for me by forcing me into the herky-jerky stance system that roots me every 3rd strike, so I can't just run around freely slaughtering enemies like before.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally don't care for it. Sure, I have an Atterax made for Spin 2 Win, a Mewan Polearm for the same purpose and it sure makes Secura Lecta an awesome farming tool, but I mainly use Destreza and don't slot maiming strike (I have it), so...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

This is honestly the only point I can be bothered arguing since the rest of it is either a language barrier, you simply not knowing what I'm meaning (since you keep bringing up the lowest common denominator argument when my 1st/2nd/last place analogy was the direct explanation of why lcd doesn't apply here) or we have such fundamentally different views on what imposing our wills on someone means that the argument isn't going to go anywhere.

Using your scenario, it's more like the meat eater hears that the cashier is a vegan and then walks over to them with their steak and aggressively eats it in the vegan's face all the while screaming "you can't impose your will on me!!!".  What I am asking spin-to-winners to do is rather choose a seat a reasonable distance away from the vegan cashier so they don't have to smell/hear you eating your steak.

I will end with this

You are trying to impose your will on others and don't even bother to think how to change game so it would fit everyone as you said earlier you only want spinners to stop, not complain to devs and think of other solutions that all would be happy with. Where I would go to devs and want them to add something so everyone can have fun, I know even those horrible S#&$ head spinners can have fun.

So this is why its vegan imposing his will on the customer, not customer coming to vegans face. Also your analogy here is flat wrong since this vegan work as cashier full well knowing there might be customers who want steak. Where if there were more options to choose from he would go to vegan restaurant. And if it was like you "said meat eater coming to your vegans face", this would be when I join your solo run or premade and spin everything. So if you choose to opt in random group there will be OTHER PLAYERS (shocking I know) and they might be either faster slower stronger weaker or retarded, if you get yourself into this situation its you who are to blame. For example this is when someone joins in for bounty in poe I leave and finish solo, he is free to fish as much as he want but not in the same game where I do bounties.

And thing with lowest common denominator argument is what you are saying all alone, "you cannot kill all stuff fast cause slow ppl cant keep up", THIS IS LITERALLY YOUR ARGUMENT. No matter how nicely you try to dress it up.

You haven't given any solution for this problem you are only said that others need to change so you and people like you can enjoy. How you cannot see how this is imposing your will on others is beyond me.

And as I said before, if its not spin2win its something else that you would complain, because some weapons are still much faster at clearing than others.

And end note, ignoring all points that I make doesn't make you somehow right, specially since you don't give anything else than totalitarian solution that everyone needs to play as I say.
(Also maybe don't complain about other people english if you cannot make your damn analogies match what you are saying)

And yes the argument doesn't go anywhere when you are at the same time saying that others cannot play as they want but you want to be able to play as you want and others have to solo when you go solo to play as you want, that doesn't make sense in public game you know? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Just go solo. At least your interacting with the game and not brainlessly nuking crap like with green day prime.  

Edited by moostar95

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-06-27 at 10:16 AM, Rawbeard said:

???

Deafult PC Keyboard input to perform a spin attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Dear OP, I think the comparison you make stems from the same problem. 

I m not sure at which point but to me it seems part of the community got deluded into thinking that swinging a stick on the wall and beating someone 8-9 meters behind it is a totally legit mechanic of the game; or a mod granting every melee to crit despite their parameters not being a straight cheator that slapping all the available range mods on a nuke frame and obliterating everyone in the map that you re not even aware of is something that was totally intended, and it s not just game developers having screwed with parameters over the years by handling out more and more powerful buffs to keep people engaged with their game. 

Edited by Neuerwinter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...