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[DE]SpaceySarah

Dev Workshop: Revisiting Wukong

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Posted (edited)

Wow extensive AND exciting! Can't wait to give Wukong more of a real shot in game, all those abilities look far superior than current 🙂

Only thing I'm confused about is that passive; does the effect last the rest of the mission, or just for the listed times? Sure its probably not a good idea to move players into a suicide meta to get wukong buffs, but these durations just don't look... right. Like sure, I understand that you can't have a permanent invincible or invisible monkey running around all the time but 30 seconds just seems a little off. Furthermore the loot and the orbs should just remain that way the whole mission in my eyes, neither of those effects seem realistically achievable or beneficial on such a low timer, ESPECIALLY if the player has no control over chosing which buff on death.  

Maybe have a choice between one of two random buffs just so you can make a more tactically throughout decision on death as to better adapt to a situation (which has obviously gone south). There will be times where a period of invisibility will be far more beneficial than loot.. and other times where it won't, letting the player at least have an asembalence of choice I believe is important particularly in hairy scenarios. This too could lend itself into like, "Death Teirs" almost, where you get to choose a single permanent effect on your last of three deaths. Either take sly alchemy, monkey luck, or primal forces as your last buff that will remain for the rest of the mission... so long as you don't die again. That way its somewhat of a risk reward sort of system with a bit more player influence.

Overall, fantastic ideas on paper and I can't wait. Thanks in advance for the updated frame and the 3 forma! I hope there is just a tiny bit more polish on the way to such a glowing concept! Keep up the great work

Edited by Obe-Ron-Kenobi

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2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Modding for a set bonus rather versus having to shoot every enemy with the Zakti a few times and then smacking them with my melee... That is the truest form of "too much work". :crylaugh:

every enemy? but it's gas. o.o

Also i didn't say anything about too much work lmfao. Other lad did.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

every enemy? but it's gas. o.o

You know what I mean.

1 minute ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

Also i didn't say anything about too much work lmfao. Other lad did.

I didn't say you did.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

but you quoted me lmfao. 

*Sigh*

Yes, I was responding to you, and in my response I referred to a previous point of discussion that took place slightly earlier in the thread. I didn't say you said it, I didn't say who said it, I just referred to it for the sake of a humourous post.

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1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

*Sigh*

Yes, I was responding to you, and in my response I referred to a previous point of discussion that took place slightly earlier in the thread. I didn't say you said it, I didn't say who said it, I just referred to it for the sake of a humourous post.

xD

yup. 

incase it was missed i was effing with ya 😄

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The clone should be able to revive wukong if alive.  

 

Why can this frame have target designation when we still can't command a pet or sentinels attack preferences with waypoint. 

HMMMMMMM? 

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16 hours ago, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Passive

  • 5 Levels of Immortality: Wukong has learned 5 techniques to avoid death whenever he takes fatal damage. Wukong will be randomly allowed 3 of these techniques per mission to avoid death 3 times. Each technique will make Wukong invulnerable for 2 seconds, restore 50% health, and provide a unique buff.
    1. Primal Forces: Triple elemental damage for 60 seconds
    2. Heavenly Cloak: Invisibility for 30 seconds
    3. Cosmic Armour: Invulnerable for 30 seconds
    4. Monkey Luck: Extra loot drops for 60 seconds
    5. Sly Alchemy: Orbs 4x more effective for 60 seconds



You guys should consider removing RNG factor with "staging":

  1. First death - Primal Forces buff. (My guess is this might be better off as a buff to proc damage and status chance instead.)
  2. Second death - Cosmic Armour buff.
  3. Third death - Heavenly Cloak buff.

Although I feel like even this won't cover all of the situations that might happen in a mission, so maybe a condition system would work even better:

  • Primal Forces activates only when there are more than 10 non-elite enemies and 1 elite unit (bombard, heavy gunner, etc) giving you a way to deal with them quickly.
  • Cosmic Armour activates only when you die in a room with more than one elite unit giving you enough time to reposition and deal with those threats without dying.
  • Heavenly Cloak activates only when you die and the enemy didn't sound off alarm...
  • etc, etc.

This way is a bit harder since you'll have to account for many wariations but it should provide more usefulness than getting the extra loot buff when you are pinned down in a room with 3 level 100 gunners or 5 level 100 toxic ancients.

Sly Alchemy and Monkey Luck should instead start with 0% efficency and ramp up as long as you are alive (capping at some point obviously), giving players an incentive to survive.

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12 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

That being said, doesn't Wukong's lore suggest that it was capable of changing form and not just size? If so, It would be interesting if players could toggle the damage type and in doing so change the staff's physical appearance.

 

Oh that would be cool. I loved that mechanic when playing Carnage in Marvel Heroes, you could swap between dagger/claws, axe and hammer on him, all filling different purposes.

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16 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Oh that would be cool. I loved that mechanic when playing Carnage in Marvel Heroes, you could swap between dagger/claws, axe and hammer on him, all filling different purposes.

If different combos used different weapon modes, that could be cool. So the long range attacks could use the current staff model, the big AoE attacks could have him change it into a hammer and slam it into the ground, the short range multi-hit combo could be with daggers, etc.

Probably more work than DE are willing to put in at this point since they seem happy with the combos they've come up with but might be cool for a future frame or something.

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I agree with everything here but I think he would be perfect if his passive buffs extend to teammates in aura range. It would make him a welcome addition to any squad.

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Hi '-'
So.. I've very few experience with wukong, his visual design never pleased me..but, his deluxe skin will be a real reason for me to play him ^^ GG to the artist

His abilities..
Hm.. I think this intented rework has the good ideas, and the good logical reasoning behind.
But, I agree with some tenno I've read, there are some little details to add or tweak, or we will have some "meh" abilities, not in term of render, he will be heroic, but in term of result, of efficiency in combat.

So, the more obvious I see, the damage of his new Defy.
I think if he only use the damage of the ennemies, and send them back he will be ridiculous against hight level ennemies, with armour..
A multiplier would be the minimum, but, I think we all hope, a conversion of the damage into the right type that can attack the type of armor of the ennemies we are facing.
I know it's maybe a little too "magic", or Revenant's style, but it's necessary..
Oh and please, these damage should be capable of damaging a zero bubble.
The abilty itself feels good, it's more skilled based, it will feel more heroic to play wukong, like a tiny "dark soul" vibe.
But please, take care of the efficiency in combat.
I want to see a wukong jumping toward mass of ennemies, to save a teamate in danger, cast defy, and deploy his primal fury right after, all in fluidity °-°

That's it for me ^^
Take care of wukong, he's the kind of warframe that I want to love playing. Heroic, ninja, martial art, inspired by real legend, he's in the core of warframe idea, he should be glorified ^^
Don't be afraid of making him "too op", his abilities can't wipe map ( <.< saryn ), he is in "local combat" ( I invent expressions xD ).

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15 minutes ago, Azvalk said:

Hi '-'
So.. I've very few experience with wukong, his visual design never pleased me..but, his deluxe skin will be a real reason for me to play him ^^ GG to the artist

His abilities..
Hm.. I think this intented rework has the good ideas, and the good logical reasoning behind.
But, I agree with some tenno I've read, there are some little details to add or tweak, or we will have some "meh" abilities, not in term of render, he will be heroic, but in term of result, of efficiency in combat.

So, the more obvious I see, the damage of his new Defy.
I think if he only use the damage of the ennemies, and send them back he will be ridiculous against hight level ennemies, with armour..
A multiplier would be the minimum, but, I think we all hope, a conversion of the damage into the right type that can attack the type of armor of the ennemies we are facing.
I know it's maybe a little too "magic", or Revenant's style, but it's necessary..
Oh and please, these damage should be capable of damaging a zero bubble.
The abilty itself feels good, it's more skilled based, it will feel more heroic to play wukong, like a tiny "dark soul" vibe.
But please, take care of the efficiency in combat.
I want to see a wukong jumping toward mass of ennemies, to save a teamate in danger, cast defy, and deploy his primal fury right after, all in fluidity °-°

That's it for me ^^
Take care of wukong, he's the kind of warframe that I want to love playing. Heroic, ninja, martial art, inspired by real legend, he's in the core of warframe idea, he should be glorified ^^
Don't be afraid of making him "too op", his abilities can't wipe map ( <.< saryn ), he is in "local combat" ( I invent expressions xD ).

Good considerations, but considering it seems to be a relatively short range swipe around him, the damage in general wouldn't matter against all but melee heavy forces like infested that already scoff at abilities if Disruptors or Ancient Healers are around in particular. Honestly, I am not too impressed with the move as described but think your concerns are on the money if the move wants to be useful against enemies of note.

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Who is this [de]spaceysarah ? Where is spacemom ? where is space muuuum ??

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16 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Well, now Hildryn will be the only functionally invincible frame.

GG, DE, GG.

By sacrificing all your abilities? I loathe your boring, cheap gaming mentality. Permanent invincibility is a POOR mechanic

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6 hours ago, (PS4)HR_Pufnstuf_1984 said:

Revenant just got more popular

Your point is? Wukong is the least used Warframe. This rework will change that, in spite of the five people that played him to begin with 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Your point is? Wukong is the least used Warframe. This rework will change that, in spite of the five people that played him to begin with 

I disagree, unless he is close to being as immortal as he is. I'm basing this on what I see from the playerbase. People like switching something on and not worrying about it, or even not even having to do that (Inaros). Same reason everyone uses a catchmoon, just wave it in the general direction and something is dead. So you think Nezha/Oberon are used more because of the great reworks? No it's because you they have better survivability, essentially more lazy.

Now if they'd only changed his 1/3 and added more damage to his 4 then yes he would become more close to the meta. Hell even Revenant isn't even that popular cause you have to recast a little bit more than Rhino. This is how I see it, after 2 weeks Wukong will still be collecting dust for most people. We'll just have to see.

Edited by (PS4)HR_Pufnstuf_1984
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I think there should be a way for wukong to regenerate his death defying stacks, say 200 kills for a stack or 5minutes recharge time or 50 health orb pickups.

something to make his passive to keep active in a long mission so that it doesn’t disappear after 3 ‘deaths’ in endurance.

an upside I see to this is that you could trigger it on purpose in a pinch to get a buff without feeling like you wasted a revive. It should still be difficult to earn them back as some of the effects sound rly useful so you should have to work for them

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19 hours ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

Time to be blunt. This is a trash move to sneakily increase your sales for the next prime access. Skipping vauban and chroma so that you can work on wukong to me means chroma and vauban won't get their rework if we support wukong sales. If we buy prime access, then you succeeded, and so you'd surely repeat this act. Chroma and vauban prime access has already passed, so to you, there is less business value, and I understand that. That is why I personally won't buy prime access anymore. Not until the fairness train comes back.

 

Also limbo rework still sucks. Don't overthink this and just make rift not affect ally attacks. I doesnt matter if enemy or warframe is in opposite side of rift. If it prevents damage, its bad design. I mean warframe abilities work this way, why not weapons? 

To this post all i can say is, you are wrong in pretty much all you say about those reworks.

Vauban is a nice cc frame, he locks down zones like nobodys business.

Chroma is the top pick for eidolon dps, what do you mean by needing a rework?

Limbo is awesome as is, you wanna do damage?

Either the limbo is shait, or just get out of the cataclysm bubble... Or just roll. His ability to defend is among the greatest.

Wukong doesnt bring any contribute to a team in any way, shape or form, he simply exists.

So yeah, he really needs a rework as a priority compared to the other frames, since every other frame either does multiple different tasks or is really good at what he does.

And surviving is a think that every frame does, sure, wukong does it better, but its not needed nor asked, if one cant do anything other than surviving, as wukong, that person is just a occupied wasted spot on a team

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26 minutes ago, CephalonLewd said:

I think there should be a way for wukong to regenerate his death defying stacks, say 200 kills for a stack or 5minutes recharge time or 50 health orb pickups.

something to make his passive to keep active in a long mission so that it doesn’t disappear after 3 ‘deaths’ in endurance.

an upside I see to this is that you could trigger it on purpose in a pinch to get a buff without feeling like you wasted a revive. It should still be difficult to earn them back as some of the effects sound rly useful so you should have to work for them

They will probably add a cooldown, but they reset on revive anyway (probably)

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I'm a bit biased when it comes to Sun Wu Kong.

But never used it again after maxing to 30. Skill set was lackluster. Unless you're a tank.

Maybe this time, it'll be love that they'll find.

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43 minutes ago, (PS4)HR_Pufnstuf_1984 said:

I disagree, unless he is close to being as immortal as he is. I'm basing this on what I see from the playerbase. People like switching something on and not worrying about it, or even not even having to do that (Inaros). Same reason everyone uses a catchmoon, just wave it in the general direction and something is dead. So you think Nezha/Oberon are used more because of the great reworks? No it's because you they have better survivability, essentially more lazy.

Now if they'd only changed his 1/3 and added more damage to his 4 then yes he would become more close to the meta. Hell even Revenant isn't even that popular cause you have to recast a little bit more than Rhino. This is how I see it, after 2 weeks Wukong will still be collecting dust for most people. We'll just have to see.

His 2 is also a mess imo

Invisibility without taking profit on stralth multiplier is kind of something no one needs

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)NEBURtheBOY said:

They will probably add a cooldown, but they reset on revive anyway (probably)

The current as-is state according to the post is up to 3 passive uses per mission of the five potential.

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