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[DE]SpaceySarah

Dev Workshop: Revisiting Wukong

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The passive looks good, and you could keep the buffs (but make it so you can only gain a buff only 3 a game), but what about instead of having him be able to escape death only 3 times, how about a timer like venari bodyguard, or iron renewal. That was you could still escape death multiple times a game, and you still need to be active.

 

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On 2019-06-13 at 1:38 PM, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Calling all Tenno and Wukong lovers!

Released in 2015, Wukong entered the Arsenal as an homage to Chinese folklore. Since his initial inception, we’ve undergone changes to Melee and beyond which have made this Warframe feel a bit left behind. As highlighted in our latest Devstream, exciting developments are in the works for Wukong - and we are not monkeying around. Read on to see how we plan on making all his abilities a bit more active and meaningful:


Statistic Changes

  • Health will be increased from 100 to 150 (at max rank increased from 300 to 450).
  • Shield will be decreased from 125 to 100 (at max rank decreased from 375 to 300).
    • Why? Since Wukong’s new kit now involves an armour buff, relying more on his health will enable a better synergy.
  • Energy will be increased from 100 to 120 (at max rank 150 to 180).
  • Sprint will be increased from .95 to 1.0.


Celestial Twin

  • Replacing Iron Jab, Celestial Twin will allow for Wukong to shed a part of himself to call a supporting clone into action. The clone will attack from range while Wukong uses melee, or will use melee while Wukong uses range.
  • Press ability again to command Wukong’s clone to attack a specific target with increased damage.
  • Wukong’s clone will remain until it runs out of life.

Reasons for changes: Iron Jab is being replaced as it essentially exists as a weaker version of other powers. Wukong’s Ultimate can fulfill and surpass the role of Iron Jab, while fulfilling more of Wukong’s lore and creating a more powerful, synergized kit.

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Cloud Walker

  • Wukong evaporates into a fast-moving cloud of mist that will temporarily daze and paralyze enemies in his path. While in his cloud of mist, Cloud Walker has the additional mechanic of healing Wukong and his clone.
  • His movement can be interrupted by attacking at any time.
  • Cloud Walker has a much faster cast time which will no longer hold Wukong in place.
  • Wukong will no longer trigger laser traps or doors while using Cloud Walker.
  • Energy cost for Cloud Walker has been lowered.

Reasons for changes: Previously, Cloud Walker did not have many use cases as it was a slower and lesser stealth option than that of other frames. These changes make the Ability good for repositioning, more well-rounded - and WAY faster.

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Defy

  • Defy will now taunt enemies while Wukong and his clone gain temporary invulnerability with reduced movement speed. All damage is captured, stored, and dealt back in a single furious long range staff spin attack.
  • Based on the amount of damage prevented by Defy, Wukong and his clone will receive a temporary armour buff.
  • Press ability again to trigger spin early.

Reasons for changes: Previously, Defy’s invulnerability was not very interactive. This change features invulnerability while encouraging more tactical, active, and interesting gameplay techniques. As many of us used Defy to be immortal, it simply was too much of a set-it-and-forget it ability. Changing it to still offer invulnerability is important to us, and strengthening the rest of his Abilities makes up for the loss of complete god mode.

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Primal Fury

  • Primal Fury will feature a new specialized and streamlined combo for Wukong’s legendary Iron Staff. As a preview of the upcoming Melee 3.0 system, Wukong’s Primal Fury uses new combo routes with simplified inputs providing a safe, limited space to try out coming releases.
  • Damage for Wukong and his clone is redistributed for a more powerful feel, with a much higher status chance, larger base range, and some slash.
  • Casting no longer holds Wukong in place. With new energy requirements, the cast cost of Primal Fury was lowered but cast drain was increased to be turned off and on as desired.
  • Animation has been trimmed.
  • The range of Wukong’s Iron Staff is always long, comparable to top range Zaws, and no longer needs to build combo to scale range.

Reasons for changes: When Primal Fury was initially used previously, it felt weak due to short range and after some use felt strong. These changes will enable a stronger, more exciting play while featuring a taste of the upcoming Melee 3.0 system.

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Passive

  • 5 Levels of Immortality: Wukong has learned 5 techniques to avoid death whenever he takes fatal damage. Wukong will be randomly allowed 3 of these techniques per mission to avoid death 3 times. Each technique will make Wukong invulnerable for 2 seconds, restore 50% health, and provide a unique buff.
    1. Primal Forces: Triple elemental damage for 60 seconds
    2. Heavenly Cloak: Invisibility for 30 seconds
    3. Cosmic Armour: Invulnerable for 30 seconds
    4. Monkey Luck: Extra loot drops for 60 seconds
    5. Sly Alchemy: Orbs 4x more effective for 60 seconds


Augments

  • Celestial Twin Augment: Replacing Iron Vault, Wukong will command his clone to perform a wide radius slam, suspending enemies.
  • Enveloping Cloud: No planned changes.
  • Primal Rage: Increased cap from 100 to 150%, increased bonus per kill from 10% to 15%. Drain now scales with duration, so the higher Wukong’s duration, the slower it drains, and when Wukong gets a kill the drain stops for 5 seconds.


Right now, Wukong is one of our less utilized Warframes. We hope that these changes will create a more interesting and engaging playing experience for current Wukong mains while helping this trickster find his way into the hearts of future fans. To celebrate the changes, all players who currently own Wukong will receive 3 Forma!

We’re really excited to share these early stages, but keep in mind that everything listed is still subject to change prior to release! Please feel free to share your constructive feedback and thoughts below on the developments coming to The Monkey King. As Lotus once said, “Everybody's got something to hide, Tenno. Except Wukong.”

*Wukong will be disabled in Conclave after his Revisit has launched until the team can properly balance him for the Conclave gamemode.

The passive looks good, and you could keep the buffs (but make it so you can only gain a buff only 3 a game), but what about instead of having him be able to escape death only 3 times, how about a timer like venari bodyguard, or iron renewal. That was you could still escape death multiple times a game, and you still need to be active.

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On 2019-06-13 at 10:38 AM, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Passive

  • 5 Levels of Immortality: Wukong has learned 5 techniques to avoid death whenever he takes fatal damage. Wukong will be randomly allowed 3 of these techniques per mission to avoid death 3 times. Each technique will make Wukong invulnerable for 2 seconds, restore 50% health, and provide a unique buff.
    1. Primal Forces: Triple elemental damage for 60 seconds
    2. Heavenly Cloak: Invisibility for 30 seconds
    3. Cosmic Armour: Invulnerable for 30 seconds
    4. Monkey Luck: Extra loot drops for 60 seconds
    5. Sly Alchemy: Orbs 4x more effective for 60 seconds

The changes sound interesting and I can't wait to try them out, but think there should be a way to earn extra lives. His passive will only matter for endless. 3 deaths in a 15 minute sortie is not the same as 3 deaths in a 2+ hr Mot Survival mission. I understand the cap for normal missions, but his passive seems to be based around dealing with higher level enemies.

Suggestion:

Allow players to earn more deaths by dealing damage or getting kills. I think this could scale in an interesting way because you need to deal a lot more damage to kill higher level enemies. Defy wasn't very interactive, but killing enemies to earn more lives would be. You could also base on enemy HP. So maybe you would need to kill dozens of lvl 50 enemies to earn another life, but less kills if the enemies are level 200 for example.  

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23 hours ago, (XB1)Aquarii Ptosi said:

I do. Ironically cloud walkers mobility is really good. Maybe try it before you knock it? Its easier to use than all 3 of those frames too and that's in its pre rework. 

i have tried it. ive got like 3k hours in the game. cloud walker is still meh and a missed opportunity

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22 hours ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

I hope vauban is in progress. But Chroma's rework in my mind is something for his 1 and 4, which as they stand now are literal gimmicks with no uses or synergies. I also disagree with the damage buff that Chroma provides, because instead of a multiplier like rhino's its mod damage, like mirage (which I also disagree with). This is because to fully benefit, I have to mod my weapons WITHOUT damage mods and replace with something else, like a cold elemental, since increasing stats is proportional, 165-220% versus 1100% is nothing, compared to a 90% elemental that scales off that 1100% damage. This also makes people buy rubico rivens WITHOUT damage, which is a bias that affects the market as well. Long story short, they should scale it as bonus (final damage) not mod damage.

As for vauban, everything he has is basically a gimmick in this era of warframe. It would be cool if they make him a status themed warframe, and stoppped making enemies immune to status. And they wonder why crit is king...

Yes, you can push Chroma's damage output higher by modding entirely around making your weapon dependent on Vex Armor, but that doesn't mean you "have to mod [your] weapons without damage mods and replace with something else." It just means that it's viable for Chroma to accept greatly reduced damage output without buffs (and the commensurate dependency on keeping your buffs up and your buff percentages high) for much higher damage while fully buffed. That's not inherently a bad design decision and can be argued to actually be a good thing, because it allows for more interesting build decisions.

And this is tangential to my core point, which is that Chroma is relatively low priority for a rework because although his kit is clunky and includes two useless abilities, he is commonly played because his kit is easy to understand, powerful, and does well in almost all content, becoming an outstanding pick in a lot of late-game content because enemies have high resistance to powers and CC but little resistance to self-buffed guns.

The only place Chroma is let down is maybe something like an Eximus Stronghold Infested or an Energy Reduction sortie, and that's assuming you mod for no efficiency, maximum strength. I actually run a decent amount of efficiency on Chroma and sure it means that he doesn't get big meme numbers for his damage output, but it also means that I can sustain buffs indefinitely without concerns about bad RNG and take him into any content.

Instead, DE is apparently prioritizing Warframes that don't work (Vauban), are only useful for a very small set of ultra-niche content (Wukong), or are extremely underpowered (Ember) for reworks. And you know what? That makes sense. Chroma's problem is that he's got useless powers. A lot of the Warframes on this list with confirmed reworks-in-progress are useless period for the vast majority of content.

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Posted (edited)

 

On 2019-06-13 at 10:38 AM, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Primal Fury

  • Primal Fury will feature a new specialized and streamlined combo for Wukong’s legendary Iron Staff. As a preview of the upcoming Melee 3.0 system, Wukong’s Primal Fury uses new combo routes with simplified inputs providing a safe, limited space to try out coming releases.
  • Damage for Wukong and his clone is redistributed for a more powerful feel, with a much higher status chance, larger base range, and some slash.
  • Casting no longer holds Wukong in place. With new energy requirements, the cast cost of Primal Fury was lowered but cast drain was increased to be turned off and on as desired.
  • Animation has been trimmed.
  • The range of Wukong’s Iron Staff is always long, comparable to top range Zaws, and no longer needs to build combo to scale range.

Reasons for changes: When Primal Fury was initially used previously, it felt weak due to short range and after some use felt strong. These changes will enable a stronger, more exciting play while featuring a taste of the upcoming Melee 3.0 system.

This is my only exception with the new design. My preference for exalted weapon is a moderate casting cost to activate, but low cost to maintain, mitigated further by efficiency and duration. The way I see this playing out is one of two ways:

1) I reserve my energy for 1, 2, and 3, and keep away from 4 because the drain will leave me unable to use 1 2 and 3 at will. 

2) I build Wukong exclusively around the 4, and just ignore 2 and 3, maybe even 1 if it costs too much relative to duration. 

I can't speak for other folks, but exalted weapons are never "just turn this on for a few seconds to clear this group" for me. Usually I'm using them to give me extra utility in weapon restricted sorties, so the weapon is the focus. 

Edited by LegendaryNeurotoxin
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If melee 3.0 is just hitting Wukong earlier and will eventually hit all frames later:

What is it about Primal Fury that will make me want to use it over my current melee weapon?

If the range is comparable to a Zaw, why wouldn't I want to use a Zaw instead, which can have a riven? And can also have an arcane attached? 

DE...go through your forums, read some suggestions people have made for Primal Fury and go make us actually want to use the ability. There are plenty of ideas.

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It doesn’t mentioned it anywhere but will we be able to mode his clone similar to how we mod Mesa’s regulators or Khora Kavat? I would like to mod the clone differently then my own Warframe. That would be neat too. 

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4 minutes ago, (XB1)Cash201293 said:

It doesn’t mentioned it anywhere but will we be able to mode his clone similar to how we mod Mesa’s regulators or Khora Kavat? I would like to mod the clone differently then my own Warframe. That would be neat too. 

I doubt it, but that would be awesome

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This...actually sounds kind of promising and I'm a little concerned because that doesn't happen.

Either way looking forward to once again being this.

legiao_p6_VNkO0Gm43CQngolqUh7jFvAYitPDuZ

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1 minute ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I doubt it, but that would be awesome

That sucks. I would consider actually buying some tennogen for him if we could because I would use him more. I just wonna build the clone with a bit more survivability than my own since it’s gonna lack moving around like an actual player (bullet jumping, dodging around enemies every 5 sec lol) since he will last until his health runs out. 

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I am a Wukong player. The reason why I use Wukong constantly is because I can get to use some crappy mods without getting killed. And I can use my arcane fury and arcane avenger when I activate my defy ability without getting killed.

The thing is I really really appreciate what DE is trying to do to Wukong, and this will not be a nerf in my eyes. These changes will definitely make Wukong more fun, and get to deal more damage a lot more often, at this point I don't really care about defy any more :) I'll still play Wukong no matter what. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm not feeling the new defy.  Looks like you either won't be able to move much while casting it or won't be able to shoot, either of which is immediately a dealbreaker for an ability that generally will do zero damage outside of conclave.  Even if they changed it so that you can move and shoot while casting, it's literally just invulnerability spam that you have to keep pressing 3 to keep up, which is really not fun imo.

The same thing applies to his passive.  I just... don't get it?  Random buffs if you take fatal damage, which you should be avoiding?  What?

I should add that (and I say this despite maining wukong for quite a while) one of the reasons I don't really play him now is that he brings literally nothing to the team save for maybe some light CC, and honestly this change isn't changing that one bit.  Selfish frames should either feel comfortable to use (Inaros) or fun to play (Ash), and right now Wukong is neither.

Primal fury is also a pointless skill.  Making it as long as a zaw does not, in fact, make it as good as a zaw, because it is not a zaw, but instead an exalted weapon with no exalted skill attached to it, just a long stick that does less damage than a zaw AND drains energy at the same time.  What's that all about?

Also uh please tone down the cloud walker opacity a bit thanks yeah

I really love the clone concept though. 

Edited by Buridean

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46 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

If melee 3.0 is just hitting Wukong earlier and will eventually hit all frames later:

What is it about Primal Fury that will make me want to use it over my current melee weapon?

If the range is comparable to a Zaw, why wouldn't I want to use a Zaw instead, which can have a riven? And can also have an arcane attached? 

DE...go through your forums, read some suggestions people have made for Primal Fury and go make us actually want to use the ability. There are plenty of ideas.

THIS, I'm excited for the changes but they are acting as if that's the reason it's bad or not used. It's because it isn't very different from sa polearm and is usually worse. 

 

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7 hours ago, (PS4)NEBURtheBOY said:

Still, i dont think it will be kept that way for long

I can agree that I don't think it should be limited. Not like Wukong only drank/ate or did only five things to try to become immortal after all! 😄

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Posted (edited)

FOR THE LONGEST TIME i have wanted to write a rework for wukong since i had been reading journey to the west and how awesome wukong really is and this rework is pracitcly everything i was going to suggest except 1 thing.In the myth when a fight gets real tough and wukong is enjoying himself he has a final technique to overpower his enemys which is he grows larger in size into a giant with 6 arms each holding one of his iron staffs or as you will cudgel as it is called in the translated journey to the west and he fights as a feirce giant monster and i was going to suggest that as the ultimate ability. BUT thank you guys for making this rework happen i am really really happy ^-^ 😂 

Edited by Boncy100

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Posted (edited)

So you nerfed the S#&$ out of his only useful skill and decided to slightly buff the rest of is useless skillset, making it more flashy to appeal to the ignorant masses but useless skills are useless regardless of how flashy they look.

And all i have to ask is... why? Why would you do that? What part of the community actually wanted this? Why you went and decided to make one of the "least used frames" even more useless.

Edited by The-Almighty
Adding more lines.

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On 2019-06-13 at 12:38 PM, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Passive

  • 5 Levels of Immortality: Wukong has learned 5 techniques to avoid death whenever he takes fatal damage. Wukong will be randomly allowed 3 of these techniques per mission to avoid death 3 times. Each technique will make Wukong invulnerable for 2 seconds, restore 50% health, and provide a unique buff.
    1. Primal Forces: Triple elemental damage for 60 seconds
    2. Heavenly Cloak: Invisibility for 30 seconds
    3. Cosmic Armour: Invulnerable for 30 seconds
    4. Monkey Luck: Extra loot drops for 60 seconds
    5. Sly Alchemy: Orbs 4x more effective for 60 seconds

 

This is a very interesting passive. But Just like Vazarin’s mending soul passive, I’m not liking that “3 techniques per mission cap”. What if there was a cap of 3 techniques but if any of them are used up a random new technique regenerates after every 10 minutes (cap can’t exceed 3 lives, but if any are used up, 1 random technique is regenerated every 10 min). Making this passive a little less limited for long endurance runs and making a little more use out of those unique buffs. (Also please make mending soul regenerate like the focus 1.0 days. For those long endurance players).

 

as this passive is, it’s not really going to get used at all in most of warframes 5 minute run content, and it’s a little too limited for long endurance runs to rely on. We are losing current defy for this after all.

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Posted (edited)

@[DE]SpaceySarah

I've actually had similar thoughts for wukong, but I'm not sold on keeping cloud walking/revive in such a manner while defy could've been changed but looks interesting

My own idea:

  1. Aesthetics. Nimbus should be thematically on wukong 24/7 but not just the normal depiction of it. Just like a Qilin in myth, wukong should be animated to Idle/Stand/Walk/Jump/Bullet Jump/Sprint/Roll/Slide/Wall Dash on clouds similar to Nezha’s Fire Walker visuals mixed with Ephemera in a sense but specific to himself. His aim glide should look more like he’s standing/sitting on nimbus. Secondly there should be a “golden” effect from wukong’s eyes to mimic “Fiery Eyes Golden Gaze”. Wukong’s “dodge” should always be a somersault animation with cloud effects around his feet and hands. When performing emotes, clones attempt to line up in formation and copy

  2. Passive, When he uses an ability he summons a clone for 20 seconds, max of 5 clones. While Aim Gliding wukong stands/sits on his flying nimbus which increases gliding speed by 100% and preventing vertical lost for up to 10 seconds
    1. No cooldown on nimbus, but has to land to refresh

    2. Clones will use a ranged weapon if wukong uses a melee weapon and melee if wukong uses a ranged weapon

    3. Clones have primary/secondary based on what wukong had last

    4. Clones use exalted weapon while wukong does

    5. Clones non-exalted weapon deal 75% reduced damage

    6. Clones have an additional 25% of wukong’s armor, everything else is 1:1

  3. 1 Removed and Reworked, becomes “Lock Incantation”, Wukong sends out an electrifying energy wave which deals slight damage and stuns enemies for a duration. Additionally opens any container in range including locked ones.

    1. Has a 30% chance to open locked containers, Increased by 1% per 1% power strength, max 100%

    2. Augment(Alter): Enemies hit by Lock incantation are debuffed for extra loot drop chance

  4. 2 Removed and Reworked, becomes the shapeshifting ability “72 transformations”, On activation wukong gains armor while taunting nearby enemies to attack. If wukong is hit within 2 seconds he does not activate the second part of this ability and causes a radical blind. If wukong is not hit within 2 seconds he and his clones transform into the most recent and closest enemy to wukong. Enemies treat them as if they’re in stealth. None of them trigger alarms or traps, and while transformed clone duration halts. If wukong takes damage or performs any actions aside from moving, sliding, rolling, aim gliding, and jumping the transformation breaks, performing a finisher while transformed causes clones to perform finishers to nearby units
    1. Clones will not break transformation until the player does

    2. Clones will line up behind wukong in a formation during the transformation

    3. With max clones out, up to 6 units will have finishers done to them.

    4. Augment(Enhance): Killing enemies with finisher recast transformation and summons 1/2/3/4/5 clones

      1. Transforms into recently killed enemy since they were closest

  5. Exalted Weapon 4 becomes 3, Magical Golden Cudgel, Additionally charge attack performs iron jab(massively weaker but gunblade range) and when wukong performs charge attack against the ground it performs iron vault(simply launches him into the air). Additionally Slam attack creates a strong wind pushing enemies away from the center while creating an impassable barrier for 3 seconds. This barrier cannot be entered by enemies or projectiles

    1. Only 1 barrier can be made at a time.

    2. Duration of slam barrier extends with power duration

  6. 4, “Victorious Fighter Enlightenment”. Wukong depletes his current energy which equates to the duration of this form. He and his clones gain energy drained as Armor based on the number of clones he currently has out. On kill, his abilities cost no energy for 10 seconds, stacking up to this ability’s duration. Units become Undying for 3 seconds on taking fatal damage, this can happen up to 5 instances for the duration with the final time fully healing the unit.
    1. Augment(Enhance): His clones gain 12.5% lifesteal link(heal each other and wukong but not themselves) and for each clone out wukong gains additional elemental damage for attacks, doubled for melee, while this ability is active

      1. 20% cap at 60% power strength, wukong's additional elemental damage has no cap

      2. Clarity, only wukong gains the accumulative elemental damage for attacks based on the number of clones he has out. It works similar to Saryn's Toxic Lash

      3. Clarity, Wukong does NOT get the lifesteal link only his clones do.

    2. Additionally all thematic/aesthetic effects have their effect visuals increased by 50% and the golden effect where his “eyes” are would additionally have a slightly extended flaming trail effect from them similar to http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-brbMzRA3JuA/TcXhmV5p_pI/AAAAAAAAA_A/rqAcg98wNTk/s1600/Flaming_Eyes____by_farooza.png

    3. For every 30 energy depleted wukong will gain 1 second of duration, affected by efficiency to lessen the threshold and duration to increase the seconds gained

    4. 1 clone=50% of energy drained =armor, 5 clones=250% of energy drained=armor, keeps changing over the duration based on wukong’s clone management

    5. Clarity, With efficiency, energy is still fully drained however the threshold for gaining a second is lessened

    6. Clarity, this is NOT a channeled ability

    7. Clarity, Wukong and his clones have their own individual 5 instances

 

However again I do like some of the rework, mainly clone, exalted weapon, and possibly defy depending on how it's hitbox functions. However passive seems extremely limited if it's only 3 times per mission that means it's useless on a long run. Even worse if it's only 3 times per mission regardless of wukong reviving or not. Defy seems kinda cool although I am questioning how it'll hit vertically and the range itself. Lastly that cloud is just awful still. I can see this rework functioning, but that cloud is still not fun and that passive feels completely useless if it works like primed regen and I need more info on that defy hitbox rather than it's defense capability.

Basically primed regen works because your sentinel is not expected to die unless hit by a stray projectile, but wukong is expected to take heavy punishment thus if that passive doesn't at least refresh per revive it'll become dead in the water making even his old passive better. Lastly I just cannot see current wukong going on a long mission, I'm fine with him not lasting on super long runs (>3hrs) but I don't see this going an hour

That's my two cents even if I'll probably go unseen but I don't know if I agree with this route the rework is taking wukong aside from giving him a clone and fixing exalted. I personally do not like this rework as it doesn't use wukong's full potential but I've already accepted that it'll be forced to ship since it's too late in development.

Edited by otakuotaku
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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, The-Almighty said:

So you nerfed the S#&$ out of his only useful skill and decided to slightly buff the rest of is useless skillset, making it more flashy to appeal to the ignorant masses

It's the ignorant masses that think it's a useful ability.

People following mindless cookie cutter builds so that they can continue to play the game with the minimum required brainpower...

You're effectively a detriment to yourself and your team if you choose Wukong right now, there is no use at all in his abilities. If you want a tank with a useful tanking ability, pick Revenant. Wukong isn't it, Defy isn't it.

8 hours ago, The-Almighty said:

What part of the community actually wanted this?

Quite a few of the people who actively take part in Wukong discussions on these forums, funnily enough.

Edited by DeMonkey
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On 2019-06-13 at 12:38 PM, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Cloud Walker

  • Wukong evaporates into a fast-moving cloud of mist that will temporarily daze and paralyze enemies in his path. While in his cloud of mist, Cloud Walker has the additional mechanic of healing Wukong and his clone.
  • His movement can be interrupted by attacking at any time.
  • Cloud Walker has a much faster cast time which will no longer hold Wukong in place.
  • Wukong will no longer trigger laser traps or doors while using Cloud Walker.
  • Energy cost for Cloud Walker has been lowered.

Reasons for changes: Previously, Cloud Walker did not have many use cases as it was a slower and lesser stealth option than that of other frames. These changes make the Ability good for repositioning, more well-rounded - and WAY faster.

 Cool stuff, but is cloud walker no longer granting a crit buff on exit? I was really looking forward to that.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, MJ12 said:

Yes, you can push Chroma's damage output higher by modding entirely around making your weapon dependent on Vex Armor, but that doesn't mean you "have to mod [your] weapons without damage mods and replace with something else." It just means that it's viable for Chroma to accept greatly reduced damage output without buffs (and the commensurate dependency on keeping your buffs up and your buff percentages high) for much higher damage while fully buffed. That's not inherently a bad design decision and can be argued to actually be a good thing, because it allows for more interesting build decisions.

And this is tangential to my core point, which is that Chroma is relatively low priority for a rework because although his kit is clunky and includes two useless abilities, he is commonly played because his kit is easy to understand, powerful, and does well in almost all content, becoming an outstanding pick in a lot of late-game content because enemies have high resistance to powers and CC but little resistance to self-buffed guns.

The only place Chroma is let down is maybe something like an Eximus Stronghold Infested or an Energy Reduction sortie, and that's assuming you mod for no efficiency, maximum strength. I actually run a decent amount of efficiency on Chroma and sure it means that he doesn't get big meme numbers for his damage output, but it also means that I can sustain buffs indefinitely without concerns about bad RNG and take him into any content.

Instead, DE is apparently prioritizing Warframes that don't work (Vauban), are only useful for a very small set of ultra-niche content (Wukong), or are extremely underpowered (Ember) for reworks. And you know what? That makes sense. Chroma's problem is that he's got useless powers. A lot of the Warframes on this list with confirmed reworks-in-progress are useless period for the vast majority of content.

I do think chroma needs some love at some point in the future. But currently he has his meta and he holds it well. So I do agree that he isn’t desperate for change for a while.

But I can’t compare his useless abilities to that of frames like Mesa with her 1, an ability that isn’t really worth using, but it doesn’t hurt Mesa to use either. Chroma’s bad abilities aren’t just worthless to use, but they fight against vex armor in some sense.

Outside of survival, vex armor heavily promotes gunplay, and what does spectral scream do? It halts gunplay. Sure you can use melee, and sure, spectral scream benefits from vex armor... but vex armor doesn’t really benefit from spectral scream and it also prevents vex armor’s biggest appeal.

as for his ult, it’s just expensive and offers little for said expense. Notably more so if you build for his vex armor. And even with efficiency, that energy is better spent keeping vex armor up than risking the use of leaving his ult up for too long.

The only reason his elemental aura gets a pass is because it gives survival or weapon benefits that end up working really well with vex armor. But on its own it isn’t enough to keep chroma afloat.

vex armor is chroma’s biggest saving grace. And yes, its keeping chroma far above from being low tier (he’d easily be the worst warframe in the game without it). And arguably chroma is among the best at his meta. But we all thought vauban was good until he lost his meta. Chroma will need to be addressed in a later date. But like you said, it’s not gonna happen for quite some time.

It’s not like he needs a drastic overhaul either. But his less desirable abilities will need to “get along” a little better with vex armor to see any use at all.

Edited by Shadedraxe

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So Defy is basically becoming a smaller scale Nyx’s Absorb. That’s a big problem because the way Absorb converts damage now makes it functionally useless. Giving that same power to Wukong with those same calculations that Absorb uses with make Defy just as useless.

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2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So Defy is basically becoming a smaller scale Nyx’s Absorb. That’s a big problem because the way Absorb converts damage now makes it functionally useless. Giving that same power to Wukong with those same calculations that Absorb uses with make Defy just as useless.

id question how you know its using the same calculations other then assuming 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, seprent said:

id question how you know its using the same calculations other then assuming 

I more suggested that if it is using the same calculations it’s going to be terrible. So they shouldn’t do that and instead make it have better calculations and then copy/paste those better calculations to Nyx because she DESPERATELY NEEDS THEM!

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

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