Jump to content
[DE]SpaceySarah

Dev Workshop: Revisiting Wukong

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

my comments have been about the fact that you need to micro manage everything, to a hgih degree and that if you lose track or slip you get heavily punished by it. 

My comments have been about how you shouldn't be having any trouble at that level once properly modded, irrespective of mistiming Defy ending.

Even without Defy's 1,500 armour you won't drop immediately to level 75 Grineer, you have time to react.

5 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

if i wanted to be poked at like this for having an opinion then i would go play league of legends. 

You're allowed an opinion, you're not allowed to say however:

2 hours ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

which armor falls off for us at lvl 75+ enemies

Because it's simply untrue and is exactly what I've been arguing against. I don't care about your complaints regarding micromanaging, I'm solely responding to your statement that armour falls off for frames when fighting level 75+ enemies. Those are your words, you can double check.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MonkeyKV said:

Konockdown is irrelevant so is the taunt range. Range is a dumpstat again for wukong for a non gimmick CC build.

No. "He's got your back" was his design philosophy on that switcheroo weapon thing. Are you going to use a pistol and bolster HIS C.O? All you are interested is on him bostering your melee for CO. Nothing to do with design flaws, you just want what you want.

Keep defy up every 1m is hardly micro manage. You sound like someone who enjoyed old defy toggle and forget invincibility. Clone needs no micro manage, he costs nothing (25) to resummon and lasts forever, they could eaasily have made him duration based and would have been ok.

Still possible. Slash, impact and corrosive on Primal Fury, viral radiation and whatever else on your sentinel. Both you and clone benefits this way while wacking with a already over the top staff. Not that C.O is needed for anything. They have given us 30+% slash damage on the staff on top of base 30% status chance. Doesnt need C.O to "scale"

1 armor buff with a 1m duration on build i showed you. Everything else is not specific to wukong. Back to old defy argument i guess.

Your are making it hard.

and this is you for me needing to glance all over my screen for buffs, timers, tracking hp of clone, which is on diff part of screen then you own hp so eyes are wondering all over to keep track of this for me personaly an a few others is rough, probably more so when i have vision problems but no what im done getting insulted when i just listed issues i ran into and fyi armor buff beign a "timed thign" when rhino,nezha are things seems wonky. specially when it would have made sense to be similar to nezha an absorb dmg which has been stated by other players. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

My comments have been about how you shouldn't be having any trouble at that level once properly modded, irrespective of mistiming Defy ending.

Even without Defy's 1,500 armour you won't drop immediately to level 75 Grineer, you have time to react.

You're allowed an opinion, you're not allowed to say however:

Because it's simply untrue and is exactly what I've been arguing against. I don't care about your complaints regarding micromanaging, I'm solely responding to your statement that armour falls off for frames when fighting level 75+ enemies. Those are your words, you can double check.

once again i used lvl 75 as a this happened once and can be a problem keeping track off buffs. even if you go duration will you always remember how long it lasts or watch timer in corner? while lookignb at timer did you see the mob get in melee/range of you that has puncture dmg/corrosive/slash/toxin. i have a build that does bolster my duration, and im useing mods to buffer my hp str, i was just listing that buff tracking can be hard. but instead i get insulted poked at and insulted further. sorry i guess that i have vision problems sorry that i as a player get annoyed needing to look all over the place to keep track of everything and like when i can quick glance over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

once again i used lvl 75 as a this happened once and can be a problem keeping track off buffs. even if you go duration will you always remember how long it lasts or watch timer in corner? while lookignb at timer did you see the mob get in melee/range of you that has puncture dmg/corrosive/slash/toxin. i have a build that does bolster my duration, and im useing mods to buffer my hp str, i was just listing that buff tracking can be hard. but instead i get insulted poked at and insulted further. sorry i guess that i have vision problems sorry that i as a player get annoyed needing to look all over the place to keep track of everything and like when i can quick glance over.

You're still going on about buff timers and micro managing and haven't yet realised despite the clarification that I'm only responding to your statement about armour falling off in effectiveness at level 75.

One day, I have hope.

  • Woah 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

and this is you for me needing to glance all over my screen for buffs, timers, tracking hp of clone

One buff. With a new UI thing and lasts pretty long. forget tracking clone hp and just resummon him. Cost to resummon is same to heal.

We have offered alternatives that do not include playing better and you simply bash them and call them bandais. You want frames to be balnced unmodded without taking arcanes/mods/equipements in general into account. You sir are delusional.

Get arcane guardians they are bandaids for your gameplay capabilities.

4 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

fyi armor buff beign a "timed thign"

Yeah we could have press defy for infinite armor duration. Would have been great. 

Give different builds a try, different setups, learn enemies behavior (we have dumb AI enemies), learn to avoid damage in the first place. Work for better gear (arcanes). 1500 armor, healing on demand, status cleansing, absurd mobility and distractive pet, you should NOT be having survivability issues until WAY higher enemies.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

You're still going on about buff timers and micro managing and haven't yet realised despite the clarification that I'm only responding to your statement about armour falling off in effectiveness at level 75.

One day, I have hope.

no i got what you mean but you flat off ignored my clarification that i used it as an axample of a one shot occurrence where i got chain cc'd by a dam bombard but t.y for continue to insult me on the down low and ignore what i say lovely interaction from a d.e. 

that 1 you can run into problem with keeping track of timers and such. 

that 2 would be nice to have an on skin flicker or soemthign so if your surrounded you can keepo the faced paced combat flowing and not need to "glance" away. 

that 3 would be nice if there was a way to organize them per player so that we can move/place them in places for us to see/use them better

 

and this is just off someoen else comment, ability to use weapons and such durign the brief invul. mabye use it to try to out"duel" a hard hitter that might still shred you when invul ends

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MonkeyKV said:

One buff. With a new UI thing and lasts pretty long. forget tracking clone hp and just resummon him. Cost to resummon is same to heal.

We have offered alternatives that do not include playing better and you simply bash them and call them bandais. You want frames to be balnced unmodded without taking arcanes/mods/equipements in general into account. You sir are delusional.

Get arcane guardians they are bandaids for your gameplay capabilities.

Yeah we could have press defy for infinite armor duration. Would have been great. 

Give different builds a try, different setups, learn enemies behavior (we have dumb AI enemies), learn to avoid damage in the first place. Work for better gear (arcanes). 1500 armor, healing on demand, status cleansing, absurd mobility and distractive pet, you should NOT be having survivability issues until WAY higher enemies.

 

sure when i have 600+ plat to buy a r3 mabye, and once again sure i can re-summon him does not change fact that keeping him alive, pulling him to you with 2 is nice. as for earlier my primary/secondary are status inclined while i use c.o crit melees or c.o hybrid melees so yes my clone is buffed by i or he buffs me, which they fixed its nice and keeps my dps going. reason why i try to keep him around because soemtimes i cant just "resummon" him with thigns on top of me. while on poe, vallis i can just hit 2 fly up and do whatever in sky safely. not always an option to just hit 1.anyways im bailign out of this, i get what your saying but yall completely ignore what i have stated. 

1 i get what arcane guardian does, 2 i get it would help, but so would arcane grace which would just be more heals. maybe going 1/1 of each, but so far i have failed to get either doing runs, 2 defaulting to xyz sure is possible and im sure it works, but will nto fix my sensory overload and things i feel i need to track do/track. and i offered ideas that got blatantly ignored like a glimer/shine/wukogns energy color on him to just have the info on frame specially for fast paced battles that can happen later on which would just be a qol change like equinox maim coloring mobs to see whats being effected/in range.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

sure i can re-summon him does not change fact that keeping him alive, pulling him to you with 2 is nice

Yes, what i mean is should not be a micromanage problem. 

29 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

which they fixed its nice and keeps my dps going.

I think we were talking about different things. They have fixed him using the secondary while you use melee. Yes this is intended and im fine with it, even though i would prefer he mimicks my weapon. Whenever enemies are further away he either wont do squat because he has melee on, or you wont do squat because you have melee on, hence why i unequip melee unless i need gladiator for higher level primal fury ownage. I thought you wanted him not to use primal fury so he can buff your primal fury C.O, this would be a huge downgrade on the "fun" part of the skill and not much of a improvement on your dps.

29 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

soemtimes i cant just "resummon" him with thigns on top of me

We have many different ways of making space

29 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

yall completely ignore what i have stated. 

I argued everything that you said.

29 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

so would arcane grace

I dont know really, kinda find it pointless with the little health pool we have and the highly effective healing we got. grace is % based, so it works best on inaros. Try it and let us know, might be surprising.

29 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

so far i have failed to get either doing runs

RNG can be a pain, i feel ya. Took me ages to get a full energize set.

29 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

defaulting to xyz sure is possible and im sure it works, but will nto fix my sensory overload

Then the frame is fine survivability wise. In regards to the sensory overload it's different for everyone, some people are used to keeping track of hundreds of buffs (mmorpgs anyone?) and some people keep a hard focus on the action. Diferent games brings diferent skills i suppose. MOBAs have given me a map OCD.

29 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

glimer/shine/wukogns energy color on him

I wouldnt mind any of that honestly. Probably could keep the old defy glow when you had it on for the buffs duration. 

Edited by MonkeyKV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, MonkeyKV said:

Yes, what i mean is should not be a micromanage problem. 

I think we were talking about different things. They have fixed him using the secondary while you use melee. Yes this is intended and im fine with it, even though i would prefer he mimicks my weapon. Whenever enemies are further away he either wont do squat because he has melee on, or you wont do squat because you have melee on, hence why i unequip melee unless i need gladiator for higher level primal fury ownage. I thought you wan

ted him not to use primal fury so he can buff your primal fury C.O, this would be a huge downgrade on the "fun" part of the skill and not much of a improvement on your dps.

We have many different ways of making space

I argued everything that you said.

I dont know really, kinda find it pointless with the little health pool we have and the highly effective healing we got. grace is % based, so it works best on inaros. Try it and let us know, might be surprising.

RNG can be a pain, i feel ya. Took me ages to get a full energize set.

Then the frame is fine survivability wise. In regards to the sensory overload it's different for everyone, some people are used to keeping track of hundreds of buffs (mmorpgs anyone?) and some people keep a hard focus on the action. Diferent games brings diferent skills i suppose. MOBAs have given me a map OCD.

I wouldnt mind any of that honestly. Probably could keep the old defy glow when you had it on for the buffs duration. 

which is my main thing, as they add new thigns new frames to track would be nice to "move" where icons are to areas i can deal/use better, adding a "shine" would be nice for when in thick of combat. as for survival he can just finding higher stuff allot "rougher"  more so when im tryign to track other things. as i stated goofign up vs lvl 75 due to trying to manage it all cost me a passive stack. something i get will be fixed as i get used to it, but could be fixed with being able to control how the info i need is "laid" out.

its not that i dont like new wukong, just he is brutally different, and with lots of new nobs/bobs things to track,

plus his clone ai still seems slightly buggy. it got stuck in elevator had to use 2 to pull it to me, 

and i would still like to be able to do more then move while useing 3, sure if i use a gun/weapon i lower my armor buff, but useing it to deal with a nullifiers from range as you tank drone dps, or to duel a high lvl nox or heavy gunner who can proc puncture and ruin armor anyways. just addign more "niche" uses due to low duration anyways. 

 

also side note i would like to color wukongs clone separate from myself would be fun to have black/white yin and yang styled. specially if you equip wisp animation would look nice.

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

something i get will be fixed as i get used to it, but could be fixed with being able to control how the info i need is "laid" out.

Yeah i understand. I guess you will get used to tracking the information the way its at the moment as well. new gauges to track takes time.

4 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

his clone ai still seems slightly buggy. it got stuck in elevator had to use 2 to pull it to me, 

Yeah it is. Expected from the AI we have and one of the many reasons people (me included) were against clone skill. turned out pretty well i would say.

I got used to not caring about him at all and he will keep porting to me every few meters anyways. Whenever i see he dies i resummon.

5 minutes ago, NytemareRhosyn said:

i would still like to be able to do more then move while useing 3

Yes me too. Taunt is too short and the spin is worse then meleeing with the staff anyways. Would have liked the skill to do more and not break the mobility. Anyways dump range and see how the build works better. Whenever you need defy is because you are getting shot by meaningful enemies anyways, so you still get max armor easy. unless you are doing a meme primal fury dmg build dont need absurd ammounts of ability strength either. umbral intensify is fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would be a great idea to increase even more the cap from armor  buff from defy so wukong and wuclone get more scalability to reach endgame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MonkeyKV said:

Yeah i understand. I guess you will get used to tracking the information the way its at the moment as well. new gauges to track takes time.

Yeah it is. Expected from the AI we have and one of the many reasons people (me included) were against clone skill. turned out pretty well i would say.

I got used to not caring about him at all and he will keep porting to me every few meters anyways. Whenever i see he dies i resummon.

Yes me too. Taunt is too short and the spin is worse then meleeing with the staff anyways. Would have liked the skill to do more and not break the mobility. Anyways dump range and see how the build works better. Whenever you need defy is because you are getting shot by meaningful enemies anyways, so you still get max armor easy. unless you are doing a meme primal fury dmg build dont need absurd ammounts of ability strength either. umbral intensify is fine.

and just did soem tests if u lose all 3 passive charges die, respawn self you do not get them back

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
vor 12 Minuten schrieb NytemareRhosyn:

and just did soem tests if u lose all 3 passive charges die, respawn self you do not get them back

Which they did say.

3 revives per mission. not per respawn.

Edited by Kayantao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kayantao said:

Which they did say.

3 revives per mission. not per respawn.

which makes this even worse for a passive. like kool so deep runs? hell no, if you get glitched an need to die to cast? which just happened to me. have fun finishing mission with no passive. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for fixing melee attacks out of the Cloud so fast!

The only complains for me after today's patch are Cloud Walker's smoke effect, its pretty damn dence, especially in a middle of a fight with other Frame's ability effects can't see nothin, but maybe bcoz of graphical settings cuz they're at 200?

Second thing, which won't ever be less important - Clone's AI improvements. 

And last, it would've been just great if CW could also heal team mates and guarded objects like Eidolon Lures! Bcoz I'm certain, me and many other folks tired seeing basically only Volt\Trinity\Chroma\Rhino on the Plains (and simply bcoz Wukong is my main 😄 ) - especially after this amazing gameplay-changing rework!
At first I was very skeptical and pretty depressed while awaited Defy change but after release I am very grateful for these changes.

Thank you, Pablo and the team!  The only thing that's missing in Wu now is team support by healing with the Cloud Walker.

Waiting for the Deluxe edition!



 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so ai is busted on several weapons, anything with a "range" cap it seems to treat as a sniper rifle and will just shoot till things move into range in some cases. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wukong feels much better to play the changes are good Wukong doesn't like he has lost anything major to me still really durable like he was before Celestial Twin is great to have just a tad dumb at times seems like (when using Lecta as my melee Secura Lecta) the melee with the ai is a bit dumb as it'll just swing twice pause for a second resume only to repeat the pause and double swing never seeming to actually end the combo properly as a pure melee player not a big loss as its gunplay is great seems to be pretty accurate in most cases i have watched it fire guns his Cloud walker or Enveloping Cloud is good now increased speed and hp regen for distance traveled is a good trade off for lowered duration the old one felt too slow i think the old one was slower than walking but the new one feels really good and reliable for quick escape and general movement Defy is still really good and the fact it absorbs damage to deal back at the end feels great the only real complaint i have about Defy is the fact i have to run into gun fire as i never seem to be targeted clone or me seems enemy ai ignores it entirely at times now the biggest complaint i have is about the ult and its only because of the combo system the movement based combos just feels like its clunky and annoying as during melee combos i am always moving and having the combos being dependent on movement for which one is chosen is a real pain to deal with i'd suggest tweaking it a bit or just making the idea of movement combos being a chosen combo style as in you can choose if you want movement or the current combo system on every other melee weapon but Wukong feels better than he used i feel inclined to use all his powers now as opposed to the old which was Defy and Primal Fury when i had tons of spare energy so ya to sum it up again Wuclone ai might need fixing on melee as it doesn't seem to know how to end combos correctly and the melee system on the ult isn't very fun to use but everything else is fine as it is

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-06-14 at 5:38 AM, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

3) Will the clone try to avoid Nullifiers? In the stream, he dominated a Nullifier, will that happen usually?

No. What happened in the stream today was a bit of a unique case. Typically, the clone will attempt to take on a Nullifier, and will take health damage over time while inside a Nullifer’s field.

That's pretty annoying... I was kinda excited for something with a better AI that could actually kill nullies without loosing health/energy/abilities

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been playing with Wukong all day and thoroughly enjoying the rework.  There are issues with his clone at the moment which need ironing out.  For example, he'll run in little circles around some enemies, completely ignore others or stand there doing nothing.  I need to test properly but it seems that his "4" causes him to bug out.  I *think* it is when you allow your energy to run to zero.  The staff stays visibly equipped on your clone, rather than him defaulting to a weapon.  This causes him to just stand around doing nothing until you activate it.  On occasions when I noticed it, even pressing 4 again didn't start him attacking enemies again.  When I cancelled "4" manually, it worked as normal.

In regards to other abilities, his two is a fantastic healer and mover.  You have so much control and it moves so quickly, that you can move far in the 2/3 seconds you have.  Take it to Jupiter and you'll see exactly what I mean.  Or the open worlds.

His 3 could do with more time, in my opinion.  Or a wider default range.  I only found it effective when being completely mobbed.  When it did work at max strength, it caused a lot of damage in return and was very good.  But I feel in lower content it just isn't worthwhile although still fun to use.

His 4, when working with the clone (see above) is very strong, very fun to use and I do like the simplicity of the combos.  I personally prefer this new combo set up.

I tested a potato'd 0 forma build in Arbitrations (min 30 minutes) and he survived perfectly well and was more than strong enough to cope.

Wukong for me will now become a go to frame.  I just hope that the clone bugs can be ironed out.  But fantastic steps in the right direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 2019-06-20 at 12:08 PM, Agayek said:

The clone location swap was actually my original idea, but I have a feeling it would be difficult to implement on the technical side, and more than a little disorienting for the player, given where spectres can go/get stuck.  I'd certainly like them to try to build it and playtest it, but as awesome as it is conceptually, I have some serious practical concerns about it.

I can write all those concerns off with "Sure, but your fault for dying."  Opens the design space a bit.

Like I said, I get why someone would prefer the shooting while in your 4, but that doesn't change that I would rather my clone and I go exalted weaponing together.  It loses potential, but it feels right.  I don't agree that the clone is solely to open mixed weapon design space.  I like my clone fighting alongside me and I'd be happy even if it always used exactly the same weapon.  That, to me, feels more fun even though it can't fully exploit all the possibilities.

 

 

Edited by TyrianMollusk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still wish the augment for his 1 would give him an extra wuclone, having 2 clones shoot for you while you melee or 2 clones charge into the fray while you shoot em from afar or killing hordes with your iron staff along with your 2 wukong buddies would be so badass

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great rework. These 2 days, I've forma'd him four times and he's so much fun to use now!

Oh and.. I'm noticing that every time I get on Archwing, the Wuclone dies immediately, but it didn't happen when I'm using K-Drive. When I'm off the K-Drive, Wuclone just simply respawns near me. Can the same thing be applied to when we're getting on Archwing?

Also, may I suggest that the upcoming Deluxe Wukong skin also comes with a Cloud skin for K-Drive?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With over 200% duration, the timer of Cloud Walker & Defy is just about 4 seconds.

If you max the duration to over 300% by putting on Narrow Minded, you will severely hurt the range which is unwise, but even that you just get about 6 seconds. 

The duration is pathetically short.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly as cloudwalker duration was nerfed to the ground i see no more use for it... And for wukong itself too as it lose both attractive sides it had for me - defy and cloudwalker.

Now cloudwalker cannot be a stealth booster for my zenistar.

Defy now cannot protect me from enemies for a good time.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...