Jump to content
[DE]SpaceySarah

Dev Workshop: Revisiting Wukong

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, (XB1)Adaptabilty said:

 Hiss old cloud walker was bad. Aside from the duration, which some people would like reverted. It was almost useless ability, if you wanted Invincibility you already had defy, and if you are using defy you still drain energy. It moved extremely slow and that doesn't fit the more fast pace nature of Warframe. It also heals you now, I bet you would've love it on the older kit, since you would be even more invincible. But nooo.

The only thing wrong with Cloud Walker was it's speed. All that needed was a buff and a change to it's augment and it would have been fine. DE didn't needed to change it so drastically by nailing a frankly out of place and unnecessary healing mechanic to it.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Wukong as he is right now holds no candle to Rhino, Inaros, Nezha or Oberon

Yes he hold no candle if you only look at his armor buff and throw everything else out of the equation. I am finding his damage far superior to all those you mentioned, mobility is way better, only nezha has anything close, and self healing also superior to some. Seems like a fair trade off in my opinion. You are making him seem bottom of the pack and not worth playing while those frames exist. 

4 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Frames should scale in some aspect as opposed to having flat limits applied to them. Defy's armour cap right now is just plain bad 

I agree to some extent. We need scaling to some point, but there has to be an upper limit to what we can survive, and 1500 armor plus invulnerability and healing on demand is good enough. Not counting arcane guardians, adaptation etc. The more absurd scaling frames are created or reworked the worse it is for rest of the roster. What we need is better AI, fix the IPS, better scaling for corpus and infested.

4 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Nova's wormhole is still useless for anything other than travel, which by your logic makes it a bad ability. A lot of people also build Volt for simply his speed.

You don't seem to grasp the logic. Nova's travel is far superior to operator mobility wise, so while yes it is travel only there is a reason to use it. Imagine nova wormhole only gated same distance as void dash, no one would use it. Again Volts speed has many uses and yes it's a better mobility. I play volt with 300+ strength and all Sprint mods.

Cloud walker healing is fine, defy needs to be better but I don't think the armor buff is the problem.

4 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

That invalidates basically all but one of the travel abilities in-game. People play this game for fun

You take it out of context. I am not comparing the mobility of different frames. Yes people play for fun, yes it's fine some are better then others. No it is not fine if your frame ability is worse in all capacity to the operator which is not optional. Imagine dashing with operator gave you 2k armor for 2 minutes not stackable with defy. No reason to use defy as there is no need to get hit to trigger and it's a longer buff, the skill might as well not exist.

Old cloud walker had no reason to be cast, they have given us plenty now, we can't take that out. Defy on the other hand lost a lot of survivability (as it should) but got meaningless trade-off. Taking the heal from cloud walker and swapping to defy is just swapping the trade-off problem. Arguably in it's current state it's far more comfortable to use CW then defy. One locks you in a slow moving state while the other makes you extra mobile. I rather heal using the mobile version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Il y a 7 heures, TheGodofWiFi a dit :

The only thing wrong with Cloud Walker was it's speed. All that needed was a buff and a change to it's augment and it would have been fine. DE didn't needed to change it so drastically by nailing a frankly out of place and unnecessary healing mechanic to it.

I honestly don't mind the healing mechanic, it's the 3x or so increase in speed along with the 90% decrease in duration that gets me. I used to slink across the screen like a cloud of fog, now I'm an invisible monkey on rocket skates. It only really works in a straight line in open areas. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The only thing devs should have asked to themselves is: "why is Wukong not so popular ?"

I don't think it has anything to do with Wukong not being efficient nor viable at all - tbh Wukong was literally immortal and his exalted staff was one if not the best of all, he was already really strong. I really think that Wukong lack of popularity was (1) his lack of fun and (2) his lack of utility.

Problem is that this rework is mostly solving the second concern only, additional small utilities have been added to next to worthless powers - decoy and retaliation (it didn't make Nyx popular), unreliable armor buff and healing (only when moving) (other sources can help with that and it doesn't even help with status nor anything else), travel speed (fun in open space, barely usable in small confined spaces - short duration too so not so fast, at least not like Nova) and some CCs such as stuns (did Wukong really need finishers when its staff is dealing millions of damage already ?).

No one will look to Wukong for this utilities, they won't help much with anything in the entire game and unless you're obsessed with Wukong doing spy missions, i don't think that this rework will change anything with people who weren't fond of him. As far as i'm concerned i'm concerned that this rework is mostly pleasing Wukong fans, and that's no good news, cause they're far from being legion.

Now the fun factor. From a "cast and forget" defy and then some exalted brawl we are now stuck with a "cast and forget" clone and then some exalted brawl... Defy and Cloud walker are now the only active powers and the only purpose they offer is to help Wukong (supposed to be immortal as a reminder) to not die - with 50 to a lot of armor (mostly 50 sadly, Valkyr doesn't even need a power to get that much armor, what a pain) and some healing (not even passive, you have to channel it and thus not being able to do anything else than cloud walking, even if you don't want nor have to move away). Two powers for one purpose, a purpose even your operator can solve ?

Where is the fun factor here ? Let be honest a second, i've tried a lot of combination and the result so far is that using Cloud walker or even Defy is mostly a waste of energy, energy you need to sustain your only viable power - his 4th. Clone is decent but i don't see what's fun in summoning a clone and then forget about it, i don't even know what he's doing most of the time and at some point i don't even care. Sure it's efficient, but where's the fun ?

And let's talk about synergies, why there are so few synergies and why everything is designed around his clone when this thing has so few importances in Wukong new gameplay ? His new augment mod is fun (the 1st one) but it has strictly no priority so if you're playing along with Wisp enemies will get stunned by lightning but there's no chance you can suspend them in the air even if it's way more useful. And we're talking about an augment mod, not even the native power here.

So basically Wukong is now as boring as before, the only difference is that now you have to check his health all the time instead of not caring much about him being able to die. Sure some players will certainly find a way to enjoy his two nearly worthless new powers but in the end do we even need them ? Does Wukong's kit is viable without this two powers ? Answer is yes. Anyone can play all day long without even using Defy or Cloud walker at least once and call it a day, or even not losing some so previous "dps". So what's the point ? Why should we care ?

I've had a blast with Wisp, design was so creative, synergies were perfect, you wanted to use all of that powers all day long. On the other hand Wukong hits the bottom of the design bin, nothing is really mandatory in his whole kit and even the new clone feature isn't bringing anything that interesting nor synergize well. Really sad cause Wukong had a lot of potential, and as opposed to many Wukong fans (who cares anyway, they were already playing him so anything new was good news to them - it won't help with his lack of popularity at this point) i don't think that Wukong is more interesting or even fun than before - In fact he's as boring and even more painful to manage (health and energy for instance).

That's only my opinion, from someone who wasn't much fond of his boring gameplay and was looking for really more fun than that.

Edited by 000l000
  • Like 1
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

I really think that Wukong lack of popularity was (1) his lack of fun and (2) his lack of utility.

Problem is that this rework is mostly solving the second concern only

Lol.

1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

did Wukong really need finishers when its staff is dealing millions of damage already ?

Cloudwalker always opened enemies to finishers, this wasn't a new addition.

1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

i don't think that this rework will change anything with people who weren't fond of him. As far as i'm concerned i'm concerned that this rework is mostly pleasing Wukong fans

Unless you've deliberately not read people's posts, you've got to be blind. Many are praising the new Wukong for being exactly that, fun.

1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

Where is the fun factor here ? Let be honest a second, i've tried a lot of combination and the result so far is that using Cloud walker or even Defy is mostly a waste of energy, energy you need to sustain your only viable power - his 4th. Clone is decent but i don't see what's fun in summoning a clone and then forget about it, i don't even know what he's doing most of the time and at some point i don't even care. Sure it's efficient, but where's the fun ?

Your inability to find an enjoyable way to play a frame does not mean the frame is unenjoyable.

It's just not for you.

1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

I've had a blast with Wisp

On the other hand I've yet to find enjoyment in playing Wisp, besides admiring her assets as I play.

Does that mean she's a boring frame? A bad frame? No, she just isn't for me.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
Il y a 1 heure, DeMonkey a dit :

Lol.

Cloudwalker always opened enemies to finishers, this wasn't a new addition.

Unless you've deliberately not read people's posts, you've got to be blind. Many are praising the new Wukong for being exactly that, fun.

Your inability to find an enjoyable way to play a frame does not mean the frame is unenjoyable.

It's just not for you.

On the other hand I've yet to find enjoyment in playing Wisp, besides admiring her assets as I play.

Does that mean she's a boring frame? A bad frame? No, she just isn't for me.

This was actual feedback, and this never needed to be commented by any kind of Wukong fan, for obvious reasons. You have your own opinion (or lol) , i have mine. But as i said i won't even argue about any frame's popularity with any kind of fan, it's just a complete waste of time. You can't even see that, maybe you think about yourself as an expert or whatever but from my own experience so-called experts in videogames are the worst of all. So feel free to not even read me, it'll save you sarcasm and it'll save me time. All good !

Edited by 000l000
  • Applause 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, 000l000 said:

This was actual feedback

It was baseless feedback. You can't say you "think that the rework only appeals to those who already liked Wukong" and that people won't find him fun when many have outright said otherwise.

You act like you're speaking for the community or have some sort of insight, but it's evident you haven't actually read people's posts. So I will criticise your feedback for having no leg to stand on and I will also criticise the fact that you're now hiding behind "it's just my opinion".

You made it very clear before release that you had an incredibly negative view of the rework, so much so that you were basically hyperbolic about perceived flaws, just as you are being now.

The frame isn't for you, that's what your feedback says.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm loving the rework myself. I would be interested in one small change. I'd love if cloud walker could heal allies maybe based on range, just so he could bring that little extra something to a group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Played some Wukong now and honestly i like the rework. The only thing that i don't like is the passive, or rather the buffs, other than that well done DE.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-06-26 at 4:25 AM, TheGodofWiFi said:

The only thing wrong with Cloud Walker was it's speed. All that needed was a buff and a change to it's augment and it would have been fine. DE didn't needed to change it so drastically by nailing a frankly out of place and unnecessary healing mechanic to it.

Are you serious? I don't understand the people in this community. It's a relatively free heal. Take away all the other perceived negatives from the rework, how is this anything but a positive. Also, if he didn't have this heal, his survivability, with the changes as a whole would be way worse. It's a heal, take it or leave it. I swear on in warframe will people complain about a healing mechanic for their character, especially in a non pvp game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Your inability to find an enjoyable way to play a frame does not mean the frame is unenjoyable.

It's just not for you.

I'll be really honest here and add to this.

When Wukong was originally released, I really didn't think much of his kit and never built him until very recently. Not that I thought that his stats and abilities were inherently bad or anything, but more like they just didn't appeal to me. Wukong wasn't my type of 'Frame / didn't fit my playstyle at the time. 

Was Wukong really bad? That's...debatable, but I'm inclined to say no.

When the rework was first proposed, the more I read, the more Wukong sounded like something I ought to at least try as he seemed to have some interesting potential.

So I built him when the rework hit to give the changes a try. Worse case scenario, he'd be mastery fodder.

I can safely that Wukong is, for me at least, fun and interesting to play and pretty solid in his current form. Not perfect mind you, I think Cloud Walker's duration is a bit too short and the movement speed is too fast to the point of being almost uncontrollable, but in general Wukong is a 'Frame I'd definitely use again...in particular in Spy, Sabotage and Exterminate missions. Wukong's quite the solo play 'Frame now.

With his original kit though? More than likely he'd be leveled and binned or at least shelved.

  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

I'll be really honest here and add to this.

When Wukong was originally released, I really didn't think much of his kit and never built him until very recently. Not that I thought that his stats and abilities were inherently bad or anything, but more like they just didn't appeal to me. Wukong wasn't my type of 'Frame / didn't fit my playstyle at the time. 

Was Wukong really bad? That's...debatable, but I'm inclined to say no.

When the rework was first proposed, the more I read, the more Wukong sounded like something I ought to at least try as he seemed to have some interesting potential.

So I built him when the rework hit to give the changes a try. Worse case scenario, he'd be mastery fodder.

I can safely that Wukong is, for me at least, fun and interesting to play and pretty solid in his current form. Not perfect mind you, I think Cloud Walker's duration is a bit too short and the movement speed is too fast to the point of being almost uncontrollable, but in general Wukong is a 'Frame I'd definitely use again...in particular in Spy, Sabotage and Exterminate missions. Wukong's quite the solo play 'Frame now.

With his original kit though? More than likely he'd be leveled and binned or at least shelved.

prior to rework i used him for deep runs, now? i shelv him so i mean, its kinda older users are discarding him as newer pick him up. though what urks me is d.e monkey likes to harp on people with different thoughts, and also iti seems any bugs/issues/ get ignored unless its blatant. like wukong still has a issues where you can end up with both melee and/ pistol/secondary at same time so clone just does nothing in example this photo, cyanex/zaw combo. while my clone was off spinning in a corner?imw=1024&imh=576&ima=fit&impolicy=Lette

  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear DE,

                Wukong's rework is interesting and I think You are hitting some needed areas of synergy between his abilities. His clone was a good idea but it can be better. I'm a wukong main and I need to say something... why was defy nerffed? All wukong needed was some cc and a damage buff to make him more usable! His passive is just a past reflection of defy. I would change his defy back to its original or have defy replenish his passive in some way (damage taken, kills from ability, etc) to make him unkillble again. I ranked wukong above all tanks and now he is lower because of defy's rework.  Cloud walker has great mechanics but should have a higher duration. His twin is interesting but not well coordinated in late game. His four needs to work differently than just a regular staff weapon. It should have a unique mechanic like Excalibur's four. DE, PLEASE consider retweeking defy to replenish his passive with damage taken, enemies killed with ability, or some form of stacks and his four to be unique like excal's four. Please make Wukong my tank king again! 

Sincerely,

A Wukong Main

  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all I want to know is when is wukong's deluxe skin incoming-- then he'll be complete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I have already given positive feedback earlier in the thread.  After additional play would like to see some tweaking of the enveloping cloud augment, perhaps granting stealth to wukong himself? or the cloud form being able to heal allies?  In its present form the augment seems far too situational to be of use.

Edited by Fairwing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems kill counts by Celestial Twin are not recorded in mission, I just noticed that in a Nightwave act (complete 5 PoE bounties).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, modalmojo said:

It seems kill counts by Celestial Twin are not recorded in mission, I just noticed that in a Nightwave act (complete 5 PoE bounties).

Only when you're not host does this occur. Soloing or hosting will cause the kills to register as normal with some exceptions, hopefully will be fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-06-25 at 3:12 AM, CodeUltimate said:

at least they should change how you get the S#&$ty 1.5k armor because using the ability everytime it runs out and searching for enemies to shoot at you just so you can get your mediocre buff up again it's annoying.

Abilities in warframe don't always have to be 'up'. Use it if you need it. If you're searching for enemies to shoot at you then you don't need it. Why buff armour if you aren't even taking hits that are somehow threatening? I don't understand. 

On 2019-06-25 at 12:28 PM, CodeUltimate said:

"higher survivability" lol alright explain to me how he has better survivability now. 

Btw I like the change to cloudwalker but defy feels like a chore to use now and you gain so little from it.

I don't understand. Cloudwalker brings me to almost full health really quickly. You have a clone to attract aggro away from you. You can use Defy when getting overwhelmed to gain 1.5k armour, knockdown enemies and damage them, and then attack. Your 4, an exalted weapon, now actually scales and makes level 160 Corrupted bombards and heavy gunners weak. 

There's obviously something wrong if you think his kit somehow lowered survivability. 

On 2019-06-26 at 10:25 AM, TheGodofWiFi said:

The only thing wrong with Cloud Walker was it's speed. All that needed was a buff and a change to it's augment and it would have been fine. DE didn't needed to change it so drastically by nailing a frankly out of place and unnecessary healing mechanic to it.

Instead it's actually useful, is good for spy, and gives healing. Why is it out of place? Why is it 'unnecessary'? You have a literally infinite supply of energy now. 

On 2019-06-25 at 12:37 PM, TheGodofWiFi said:

As much as I support changing Defy, I'm not going to pretend the old Defy wasn't better than the new one in terms of overal survivability. That's a fact its not as effective.

Also, everyone needs to get off this train of "You just want an AFK frame". It's a lazy comeback that just insults people instead of addressing their points because you can't be bothered and doesn't make any sense since there are plenty of AFK frames out there already.

Good in certain aspects. Not in others. He's more interactive certainly, but sometimes DE get a bit overzealous when it comes to reworks and IMO two of his abilities suffered from forced "interactiveness" when Defy and Iron Jab was all that needed to be majorly changed. The other abilties just needed some tweaks. Wukong was always a good frame in terms of survivability. Maybe not in interactivity, but then again a lot of frames in the game are not as interactive as some others - like Oberon, Inaros, Rhino and Limbo - and that is fine.

Not every frame has to be Harrow.

More interactive is better. Wukong had less interaction before than Inaros, and Inaros at least has a decent kit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this case, it would be because when you do need your armor, you will be dead since they will have killed you and your proactive protection against that was removed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-06-29 at 11:40 AM, (XB1)Adaptabilty said:

Are you serious? I don't understand the people in this community. It's a relatively free heal.

BUT we already have hundreds of free heal options not tied to energy!

From Kavats, melee to channeling to operators! I dont care for cloudwalkers heal it was previously a panic button. Every frame needs one imho.

Previously the duration of cloud walker allowed you to reposition to a safer spot with security and slight planning. Now its just a blink across a 6 metre zone.
His energy use is expensive now aswell with additional demand on the short duration in heavy fights Its either too short to reduce danger level or too expensive. It makes streamline and fleeting expertise compulsory to get any value out of the energy limits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 2019-06-24 at 9:12 PM, CodeUltimate said:

at least they should change how you get the S#&$ty 1.5k armor because using the ability everytime it runs out and searching for enemies to shoot at you just so you can get your mediocre buff up again it's annoying.

Yep. There's no reason for the armor cap considering Nezha and Rhino already doesn't even have it.

Currently Nezha is more immortal thn Wukong now (Nezha gets brief invincibility when his armor ability depletes, giving time to recast if you're paying attention). Of course Rhino with an augment allows recast at any time. Wukong can't do any of that, and it ABSOLUTELY matters when enemies not only get increased damage but also increased speed in longer endless missions. There's no beffer between his new Defy eneding and Cloud Walker, aside from his 3 revives per mission. The 3 revives doesn't really mean much in that case at all 😕

Edited by AntiMomentum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Shpow said:

 

There's obviously something wrong if you think his kit somehow lowered survivability. 

 

I won't bother arguing the rest of your points, but this is categorically false. Old Defy was actually the best and easiest tanking abilitiy in the game. Even Inaros and Baruuk can get one-shot from any common enemies eventually. With Old Defy the more damage you took the better because you would also gain energy, WITH Defy active, and get invinciblity on EACH activation.Look up Wukong Defy immortality loop

You could be surrounded by level 1000 leeches and as long as you're actually taking damage you would still never die, even from one-shots that would kill Inaros or Baruuk at that level, and would drain Rhino/Nezha's energy like nothing. Literally 1.25 energy per second and Rolling Guard ensures you don't even need to hide at recast after like 14 activations. 

This also means as long as you were taking damage with old defy active that not only would you not die, but you could use it to keep his 4th active nigh endlessly as well....
And I say "nigh" endlessly because there are some exceptions. Such as a Mesa killing enemies before they can damage you, but at high enough levels where they could still get in range to drain some energy. At even higher levels enemies would still be able to reach you despite Mesa. So you could get energy anyways at that point.

Old Defy alone was like a Chinese finger trap. Literally the more damage you took the better, regardless of enemy level, endlessly. Imagine that with the rest of his current kit.

There is no reason for New Defy to have an armor cap at all. Even without a cap, it's still ultimately a nerf on Defy but gives roughly the same amount of interaction as with the cap anyways.

Especially since both Nezha and Rhino have damage absorbtion MULTIPLIERS, rather than caps at 1500, when the Last Immortal does not. He can't even tank, dps, or cc better than other frames. His best niche is SPY now. Both Rhino and Nezha can give damage multipliers for the entire squad rather than currenty Defy for just Wukong himself lmao and sill easily tank more damage. 

Edited by AntiMomentum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, AntiMomentum said:

I won't bother arguing the rest of your points, but this is categorically false. Old Defy was actually the best and easiest tanking abilitiy in the game. Even Inaros and Baruuk can get one-shot from any common enemies eventually. With Old Defy the more damage you took the better because you would also gain energy, WITH Defy active, and get invinciblity on EACH activation.Look up Wukong Defy immortality loop

You could be surrounded by level 1000 leeches and as long as you're actually taking damage you would still never die, even from one-shots that would kill Inaros or Baruuk at that level, and would drain Rhino/Nezha's energy like nothing. Literally 1.25 energy per second and Rolling Guard ensures you don't even need to hide at recast after like 14 activations. 

This also means as long as you were taking damage with old defy active that not only would you not die, but you could use it to keep his 4th active nigh endlessly as well....
And I say "nigh" endlessly because there are some exceptions. Such as a Mesa killing enemies before they can damage you, but at high enough levels where they could still get in range to drain some energy. At even higher levels enemies would still be able to reach you despite Mesa.

Old Defy alone was like a Chinese finger trap. Literally the more damage you took the better, regardless of enemy level, endlessly. Imagine that with the rest of his current kit.

Defy reduced effectiveness as you were beaten up in it, getting to the point if killed rapid fire, that you might not even have enough energy with some builds; your maximum life and shields also diminished - but it wasn't too much of a penalty since you could life strike foes if you were active. Of course, Defy drained energy and Eximus Energy Leeches actually could counter your energy gain but of course that Ancient Disruptor would negate any energy you would gain from damage with Rage anyway if still alive at the time. Course, you probably knew that, Defy didn't give invulnerability, but we do have a warframe who did have such an ability - Valkyr- and she combined her Exalted move into it, while having the highest natural armor among warframes (odd for a berserker warframe) and has a move to more than double that armor again (warcry).

No, as for interaction, Defy was interactive because somethings - ironically your example for one - would counter Defy before you could try while Wukong is fragile to hit with his normal stats. An invisible warframe like Ivara has no worries about energy management while firing from concealment - as enemies will not attack you if you are at least using silent weapons - and she doesn't drain energy while standing still and not getting attacked - which you will not be. Defy with Wukong at least required you to find somewhere safe to re-toggle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Defy reduced effectiveness as you were beaten up in it, getting to the point if killed rapid fire, that you might not even have enough energy with some builds; your maximum life and shields also diminished - but it wasn't too much of a penalty since you could life strike foes if you were active. Of course, Defy drained energy and Eximus Energy Leeches actually could counter your energy gain but of course that Ancient Disruptor would negate any energy you would gain from damage with Rage anyway if still alive at the time. Course, you probably knew that, Defy didn't give invulnerability, but we do have a warframe who did have such an ability - Valkyr- and she combined her Exalted move into it, while having the highest natural armor among warframes (odd for a berserker warframe) and has a move to more than double that armor again (warcry).

Valkyr comes no where close to Old Defy. At all. Yes Valkyr can restore health while invincible, but so can Rolling Guard with Old Defy active and simply taking more damage (plus energy regen). Due to enemy speed also increasing at levels where any of this actually matters it's a non-issue. Valkyr can't use Rage/Hunter Adrenaline to gain enegy with 4th. Old Defy did. It was truly endless damage tanking, regardless of enemy level, forever, and gaining energy doing so futher fueling Defy.

Along with fueling any other abilities to spare.

keep in mind Rolling Guard simply requires you to roll rather than needing to find somewhere safe. Even if we take that out of the picture, I now refer you to Nezha and Rhino having an absorbtion mulitipler rather than a cap anyways.And iframes to deal with recasting for both frames. They can both avoid one-shots at endless levels. Current Wukong can't even with Rolling Guard. 😕  Remove the cap at least.

Edited by AntiMomentum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...