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Dev Workshop: Revisiting Wukong

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On 2019-07-03 at 7:58 AM, TheGodofWiFi said:

It's not good for Spy and I can say this 100% after playing around with it in those missions. Two seconds of Cloud and dropping out right into a laser grid is not useful. The heal is out of place and unecesary, because Cloud Walker was never the healing ability originally in Wukongs kit (that was Defy) and we already have a lot of ways to heal our frames already.

This is an opinion I disagree with 110%. We already have enough interaction with the game through Wukong's new Defy and Primal Fury. It's not a crime to have a few abilities/frames that maybe don't require so much schizophrenic micro-management.

OldKong actually had more interaction than Inaros. At least with Old Defy you had to use it again every now and then. With a properly built Inaros, all you need to use is Scarab Armour once and you're golden for the entire mission. Talk about a "Set it and forget it" ability.


On 2019-07-03 at 8:03 AM, TheGodofWiFi said:

You leave out the detail where the heal was used to justify a nerf to an ability, so no it's not "anything but a positive". The heal quite frankly did not need to be stapled to Cloud Walker. It could simply have been part of his new Defy, which would make sense since his Old Defy was the original healing ability.

Cloud Walker needed it's speed boosted. That is all. The healing mechanic could have been part of another of his abilities like Defy or even Primal Fury.


19 hours ago, CarrotSalad said:

I dont consider having to buff your combat stats every 20 seconds "interactive" or fun. I cant stand it when games do this. It just makes every clunky and repeatedly destroys any hope of having a nice flow of combat.

Defy doesn't buff 'combat stats' other than armour. It's there to change the tide if you're getting overwhelmed and give you some armour to do it with. You really never need to spam it until you start reaching level 250+

On 2019-07-03 at 4:13 AM, AntiMomentum said:

I won't bother arguing the rest of your points, but this is categorically false. Old Defy was actually the best and easiest tanking abilitiy in the game. Even Inaros and Baruuk can get one-shot from any common enemies eventually. With Old Defy the more damage you took the better because you would also gain energy, WITH Defy active, and get invinciblity on EACH activation.Look up Wukong Defy immortality loop

You could be surrounded by level 1000 leeches and as long as you're actually taking damage you would still never die, even from one-shots that would kill Inaros or Baruuk at that level, and would drain Rhino/Nezha's energy like nothing. Literally 1.25 energy per second and Rolling Guard ensures you don't even need to hide at recast after like 14 activations. 

This also means as long as you were taking damage with old defy active that not only would you not die, but you could use it to keep his 4th active nigh endlessly as well....
And I say "nigh" endlessly because there are some exceptions. Such as a Mesa killing enemies before they can damage you, but at high enough levels where they could still get in range to drain some energy. At even higher levels enemies would still be able to reach you despite Mesa. So you could get energy anyways at that point.

Old Defy alone was like a Chinese finger trap. Literally the more damage you took the better, regardless of enemy level, endlessly. Imagine that with the rest of his current kit.

There is no reason for New Defy to have an armor cap at all. Even without a cap, it's still ultimately a nerf on Defy but gives roughly the same amount of interaction as with the cap anyways.

Especially since both Nezha and Rhino have damage absorbtion MULTIPLIERS, rather than caps at 1500, when the Last Immortal does not. He can't even tank, dps, or cc better than other frames. His best niche is SPY now. Both Rhino and Nezha can give damage multipliers for the entire squad rather than currenty Defy for just Wukong himself lmao and sill easily tank more damage. 

Except energy is restored as a % of dmg to health, not dmg, so it had diminishing returns. You always had to reset after a couple of deaths. 


I was aware of how his build worked, it's the build I had. It could go for ages on endless. But it was boring and I didn't care about the frame once I got other, more fun frames. Like, sure you could tank a lot, but you're also playing Wukong. Balancing a frame around an ability that was being used to hit level 1000 on endless.. meh, that's the nichest of niche in Warframe. 


If they kept old defy with his current kit it would be broken as hell. It is a nerf on defy, but having Wukong be fun again is way more important imho. 



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Been testing the new Wukong by using him to solo almost all the sorties, I feel that the rework is generally good.

I just wish that the new Defy can be more interactive (e.g. Wukong is allowed to attack in Defy).

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3 minutes ago, RDN-5263 said:

Finally got to yhis after a bit of a break...

So, my Wukong was built for Iron Vault + glavie nuke combo.

Is the build still viable with new 1?

Given that Iron Vault doesn't exist now because of the new #1... no?

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I am enjoying using the reworked wukong, rapidly becoming a favourite.  I would like an augment to use cloud walker as a channeled ability.  It is my favourite movement skill in the game, needing to recast in the middle of traveling somewhere every 5 seconds can get annoying.  Enveloping winds as an augment is pretty useless now so maybe a good change for that augment?

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On 2019-07-04 at 5:31 AM, Shpow said:


Balancing a frame around an ability that was being used to hit level 1000 on endless.. meh, that's the nichest of niche in Warframe. 


If they kept old defy with his current kit it would be broken as hell. It is a nerf on defy, but having Wukong be fun again is way more important imho. 



Level 1000 enemies aren't even that high and endless endurance runs aren't that niche. Just look at the leaderboards near the end of the week. You can get close to that level with just a basic 40 or 50 dig heiracon farm. In between new content it's one of the few things to do once you've done everything else or everything you care to do. Some people just do it to farm.

Old Defy aside though let me ask you some questions about current Defy. Let's assume we removed the armor cap but kept the rest of Defy the same as it is now:

Would removing the armor cap be "broken as hell" to you as well? If so, why

Would removing the armor cap make Wukong any less fun to you? If so, why

Is there any reason to you why there should be an armor cap?


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So, due to rework Wukong became my most-used warframe after the long state "MR-only" (cuz of slow and boring gameplay). And after playing him a bit I can say:

I'd personally prefer previos variant or more constancy in current. 
(Maybe - a way to recharge this passive and remove buffs from it in that case. Like Nidus can do this. Or make buffs more constant if not.)
But I understand that someone like it current state and I for me passive is more a usefull feature rather than something critical.

Celestial Twin. 
I like it, much better than Iron Jab. It's fun to have your bro with you. And he is very useful for low-mid lvl, when our buddy can stay alive. Also he can be a little pocket Rhino with Celestial Stomp augment. Actualy he's good enough with melee or a bow, for example. AI need to be much better, but since it's an overal problem (despite he has own AI) - can't blame him for that.

Cloud Walker.
Perfect. It's fast, heals, ignore lasers, stuns enemies. Even with so little duration it's incredible better and more usefull than before. 
As for augment - useless unless the ability would be able to catch and heal allies as it can with a twin.

Almost useless. The only useful thing here - invulnerability phase. That's all. Because when you're facing low-mid lvl enemies you don't need this 1.5k armor buff. Just use your 2 when needed. When you're facing realy high lvl enemies - 1.5k armor won't save you. Damage? Use something else - it would be faster. So - invulnerability phase is good, anything else - nope.
IMO - should be changed.
Remove armor cap, or let it restore energy instead, or make Restraint-like resourse for Primal Fury and let it fills it, or let it give you damage buff, or let it restore passive charges, or something else, that would be  really usefull.
And I'm not asking for revert changes and get old Defy back. I'm asking for making this Defy better.   

Primal Fury.
Good changes. Slash is nice. 
Actualy - I'd prefer evenly IPS. Where to get Puncture? First: You actualy can pierce something with a stick. Second: It's an freaking energy staff made from the void energy, why not? How did Valkyr makes Impact damage with CLAWS? But It's only my opinion.

Energy drain is horrible. You have 5 enegry drain per second with 180 (195) energy pool. Should be much less. Excal have 2.5 ED with 150 (225) EP. (Don't take Valkyr, since she has another mechanics in ED with her 4). Or shoud be with Defy-replenishable Restraint-like meter.
Augment is ok.

Keep testing my new buddy, taken from the old dusty shelf.

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  • 2 weeks later...

As someone who loves Warframe. And Wukong. I used him of course for his Defy which was his purpose. I have every single warframe and built each one for certain purposes depending on what mission I'm using. (Everyone should be doing that. Obviously)

If DE wanted to make him more enjoyable to play they should have

1) Kept Defy and his passive the same.
2) Change his cloudwalk to him riding an actual cloud. Give him movement speed for the duration and ability to fly (obviously). But take away invisibility, he never needed it.

But since they have already reworked him.

DE should rework him again! And get rid of his Defy and change it to Shapeshifting/Transformation like in the lore. I would suggest at least 2 forms. Kavat for stealth, Kubrow for attack. Room for other transformations. This should be a toggle.


Change his cloudwalk to a toggle buff so he has speed while on a cloud but take invisibility and invulnerability away. This should be a toggle.


Make his first skill a buff that summon clones that only uses his staff as he does damage. Each clone only lasts a certain amount of time but will attack nearby enemies. But max out at at least 5, he's meant to have an army of clones not just one. This makes it hard for spies or stealth missions but great for others.

This will make Wukong's skills toggle buffs  (first complete toggle warframe) causing the player to choose between which ones to activate or sustain along with his exalted. This gives him a higher degree of difficulty (or not since all his abilities are toggled, but possibly due to management of energy,) as well as making him more fun and suitable for different missions based on the build.

On a side note: I've always wanted to fight side by side with my Kavat as a fellow Kavat and Khora doesn't count.

And DE should allow players to customize their transformations XD.

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  • 2 months later...
On 2019-06-13 at 1:38 PM, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Calling all Tenno and Wukong lovers!

Released in 2015, Wukong entered the Arsenal as an homage to Chinese folklore. Since his initial inception, we’ve undergone changes to Melee and beyond which have made this Warframe feel a bit left behind. As highlighted in our latest Devstream, exciting developments are in the works for Wukong - and we are not monkeying around. Read on to see how we plan on making all his abilities a bit more active and meaningful:

Statistic Changes

  • Health will be increased from 100 to 150 (at max rank increased from 300 to 450).
  • Shield will be decreased from 125 to 100 (at max rank decreased from 375 to 300).
    • Why? Since Wukong’s new kit now involves an armour buff, relying more on his health will enable a better synergy.
  • Energy will be increased from 100 to 120 (at max rank 150 to 180).
  • Sprint will be increased from .95 to 1.0.

Celestial Twin

  • Replacing Iron Jab, Celestial Twin will allow for Wukong to shed a part of himself to call a supporting clone into action. The clone will attack from range while Wukong uses melee, or will use melee while Wukong uses range.
  • Press ability again to command Wukong’s clone to attack a specific target with increased damage.
  • Wukong’s clone will remain until it runs out of life.

Reasons for changes: Iron Jab is being replaced as it essentially exists as a weaker version of other powers. Wukong’s Ultimate can fulfill and surpass the role of Iron Jab, while fulfilling more of Wukong’s lore and creating a more powerful, synergized kit.



Cloud Walker

  • Wukong evaporates into a fast-moving cloud of mist that will temporarily daze and paralyze enemies in his path. While in his cloud of mist, Cloud Walker has the additional mechanic of healing Wukong and his clone.
  • His movement can be interrupted by attacking at any time.
  • Cloud Walker has a much faster cast time which will no longer hold Wukong in place.
  • Wukong will no longer trigger laser traps or doors while using Cloud Walker.
  • Energy cost for Cloud Walker has been lowered.

Reasons for changes: Previously, Cloud Walker did not have many use cases as it was a slower and lesser stealth option than that of other frames. These changes make the Ability good for repositioning, more well-rounded - and WAY faster.




  • Defy will now taunt enemies while Wukong and his clone gain temporary invulnerability with reduced movement speed. All damage is captured, stored, and dealt back in a single furious long range staff spin attack.
  • Based on the amount of damage prevented by Defy, Wukong and his clone will receive a temporary armour buff.
  • Press ability again to trigger spin early.

Reasons for changes: Previously, Defy’s invulnerability was not very interactive. This change features invulnerability while encouraging more tactical, active, and interesting gameplay techniques. As many of us used Defy to be immortal, it simply was too much of a set-it-and-forget it ability. Changing it to still offer invulnerability is important to us, and strengthening the rest of his Abilities makes up for the loss of complete god mode.



Primal Fury

  • Primal Fury will feature a new specialized and streamlined combo for Wukong’s legendary Iron Staff. As a preview of the upcoming Melee 3.0 system, Wukong’s Primal Fury uses new combo routes with simplified inputs providing a safe, limited space to try out coming releases.
  • Damage for Wukong and his clone is redistributed for a more powerful feel, with a much higher status chance, larger base range, and some slash.
  • Casting no longer holds Wukong in place. With new energy requirements, the cast cost of Primal Fury was lowered but cast drain was increased to be turned off and on as desired.
  • Animation has been trimmed.
  • The range of Wukong’s Iron Staff is always long, comparable to top range Zaws, and no longer needs to build combo to scale range.

Reasons for changes: When Primal Fury was initially used previously, it felt weak due to short range and after some use felt strong. These changes will enable a stronger, more exciting play while featuring a taste of the upcoming Melee 3.0 system.




  • 5 Levels of Immortality: Wukong has learned 5 techniques to avoid death whenever he takes fatal damage. Wukong will be randomly allowed 3 of these techniques per mission to avoid death 3 times. Each technique will make Wukong invulnerable for 2 seconds, restore 50% health, and provide a unique buff.
    1. Primal Forces: Triple elemental damage for 60 seconds
    2. Heavenly Cloak: Invisibility for 30 seconds
    3. Cosmic Armour: Invulnerable for 30 seconds
    4. Monkey Luck: Extra loot drops for 60 seconds
    5. Sly Alchemy: Orbs 4x more effective for 60 seconds


  • Celestial Twin Augment: Replacing Iron Vault, Wukong will command his clone to perform a wide radius slam, suspending enemies.
  • Enveloping Cloud: No planned changes.
  • Primal Rage: Increased cap from 100 to 150%, increased bonus per kill from 10% to 15%. Drain now scales with duration, so the higher Wukong’s duration, the slower it drains, and when Wukong gets a kill the drain stops for 5 seconds.

Right now, Wukong is one of our less utilized Warframes. We hope that these changes will create a more interesting and engaging playing experience for current Wukong mains while helping this trickster find his way into the hearts of future fans. To celebrate the changes, all players who currently own Wukong will receive 3 Forma!

We’re really excited to share these early stages, but keep in mind that everything listed is still subject to change prior to release! Please feel free to share your constructive feedback and thoughts below on the developments coming to The Monkey King. As Lotus once said, “Everybody's got something to hide, Tenno. Except Wukong.”

*Wukong will be disabled in Conclave after his Revisit has launched until the team can properly balance him for the Conclave gamemode.


Today, Rebecca and Pablo hosted a Wukong Dev Workshop stream where they answered some of your questions and showed gameplay of the changes coming to Wukong. We recommend checking out the full video if you have time, linked below:

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GZRwhpCrB4&t=1s

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_adcUHClrDY

We also managed to track down some of your clone FAQs from today’s stream!

1) Will Wukong’s clone trigger alarms?


2) Does the clone have its own combo counter and does it benefit from Blood Rush?

Yes, and yes.

3) Will the clone try to avoid Nullifiers? In the stream, he dominated a Nullifier, will that happen usually?

No. What happened in the stream today was a bit of a unique case. Typically, the clone will attempt to take on a Nullifier, and will take health damage over time while inside a Nullifer’s field.

4) Will a Wukong Specter also create its own clone?


5) What happens to the clone when you go into Operator mode?

The clone will continue functioning while a player is in Operator mode, but will remain anchored to Wukong.

6) Can the clone use alt fire on weapons?

This will depend on the weapon, as some will have AI behaviour defined.

7) Can the clone use heavy weapons?


  1. celestial twins should feature a few passives for recasting which add a random weapon buff to guns, and staff over a new metter for the weapon and cloud's fuctions to be enhanced, i appreciate celestial twins, but it doesnt have a good set of dismount and summuning attacks or effective magic, especially under no energy modes, and wukong just doesnt have any actual teleports or aerial magic without calling up the gods for power, or pulling smoke clouds, there should be a new way to move that is different from other warframes mechanics.
  2. we can pull this out from the air, or slam attacks, limbo and hyldrin have a dash, but they are really blocky, and feel locked up until new featuers are added to limbos teleport for reloading and attacking with melee, such as a tackle or a grapple, and that hyldrin summons a few weapons and armor, AOE plates, and heavy, our wukong would require a teleport and a few movements with the stick.
  3. So wukong can have some short staff and guarding mastery added with acrobatics, sliding is improved to immerse the bo-combat witout calling out for energy and summuning the weapon or a twin, wukong should be able to use it to counter, block, and move, such as a teleport, double rocket punch or transformation, to allow for players to use the ability buttons for more than just abilities, reducing costs and damage .
  4. Various augments should be added to bounties in fortuina and cetus so players can increase the effectiveness of Zaws, and kitguns, as well as for the basic Mk-1 weapons and warframes,
  5. there are many coffers and treasure chests and objects to scan which could contain fish, mods, and crystals, as well as TOWN currency and quest
  6. ayatan focus tool, and combat iitems for wukong should keep players from fighting with a clone, versus fighting with a staff, reloading button on full weapons, zoom modes,sliding, jumping and toggles adequate espionage tools can consume items or be upgraded to keep it interesting, it can be smoke granades, and signature items, laser attacks and spawning a short specterbomb,
  7. specter summuning animation is terribly simplistic, and unrealistic, better to have a few specter with short health or a squadron at the entry and extraction point upgrade cover, and low hp specter who fights for you when you are down, various summons should focus on that aspect for the missions to be fun, there are some other ways to charge up the electronics and keep players busy by adding the fishing and minning or spare robots to each planet, but wukong would require another more staff or teleport to say interesting, especially if he cant fill up enough resources for a celestial twin or the staff from balls, or enemy kills predifined by the environments, and i think there are not enough vampire modes or rewards to ensure players will want to take up the chanllenge, so devs can develop and patch each warframe who cant use abilities properly to function without trickery,
  8. some heavy weapons should be examined, players can move fast regardless of how big the weapon or hammer is, and theres not enough benefits on melee weapons or passives to defense, to make pickups matter, say we could smash a computer or locked door, locker with a weapon that required two hands, or a dash attack
  9. , slam attacks are somewhat irritating, some have poor sound effects.
  10.  cloud walker usually locks into chokeslam mode, this is where you can just use a clone, or celestial twin, and also during cloud walking you should be allowed to skip some pole and long animations for control when holding pose, or remainin gin the wind,
  11. i think its a decent time to allow the passive traits to function like a roulette, or at least give some control over THUNDER/WATER magics and enhancing teleportation animation into the resulting dismount form, so a godmode deploys based on the combo or amount of time u spend, and abilities triggered or positional lunge.
  12. and no tapping adjacent attacks, or teleports to look good to recover ur twin instead of dismissing, and that my dog gets a twin or godmode.
  13. rewards for cloudwalker use can be added to rolling and slide attacks which reduce damage and also shock enemies, occasionally tag or do something funny, it doesnt have to be a decapitation, it can be a finisher, or backflip animation, gusto.
  14. the ultimate weapon is how we modify wukong to function without calling staves and clones, so there should be some focus as how wukong's is allowed to wield ZAWS or modified his primary weapon functions, stances, and transformations, especially for wukong weapons and items to drop early from cetus shops, bounties, and syndicacy,
  15. the augments are too dificult to obtain
  16. there should be other augments and rivens avaliable  from missions and story
  17. and some rewards which cant be traded
  18. heatdagger by default a close range weapon can be thrown and retrieved by pet/clones/and added to blocking attacks, especially with no energy requirements, so you want to give players a head tagger at some point by default, and save the sword for when they get to relay.
  19. relay needs more shops and soundtracks, devotees, and bounties which reward players augments and planet relavant mods, toys, blueprints which can be cool if we got more toys and pvp items added found through enemis defeated, lockers, and mission rewards, replaying, some mods to fuse at the relays instead of the orbiter, the same would appear apparent at cetus and fortuna for players who dont leave town..
  20.  enclave and lunaro add those guys to missions per planet, allow them to give the players weapons augments and pvp items or tools, advise, and operator cosmetics, until other tennogen or skins are added, the resources and minnig game should feature more NPC, its scary to mine at fortuna because all the caverns have creatures lprotectecting their nest, and our robotics need time to recharge, a good flashlight upgrade for lances and gun would be okay, but the sensors dont save my ass from getting shot, or getting stalked by a flying ship, snow, or a random volcanic rupture, so  the added earquakes and scientist can be scary to find glowing infested with guns and shields from the caves!!!! give edxtra rewards!!!
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On 2019-06-26 at 4:25 AM, TheGodofWiFi said:

The only thing wrong with Cloud Walker was it's speed. All that needed was a buff and a change to it's augment and it would have been fine. DE didn't needed to change it so drastically by nailing a frankly out of place and unnecessary healing mechanic to it.

honestly the fart cloud was way slow, and uselss before this upgrade, but am finding its missing a few recast and tapping mechanics for calling up transformations and magic, say you trigger his staff during the mote, and or your clone during cloud walker, i think also that his traits and defy should trigger passively enhancements for his melee and weapons, or at least buff his acrobatic movements, thats why i think that wukong could handle a transformation or magical powers, like a pair of bracelets which can be used for blocking rockets and bullets, then a wolcano staff covered with rubies and it cant get rusty, unless you use the old cloud walker. . . but maybe we can just get a TOGGLE???


all these reworks and no toggles for old players to choose their ability and passive trait styles, so we end up with huge complains.

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