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[DE]SpaceySarah

Dev Workshop: Revisiting Wukong

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The "Defy" ability worked well, it made God a character because there was still energy that could not be killed, but for some reason it became buggy after a while because someone was disturbed that it worked well.
That's how it came from Ash.
The enemy will become stronger with the character and nerf

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People are arguing with each other over the DElay of Plague star and DE shows a Wukong rework with Plague Star active. 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

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1 hour ago, SSI_Seraph said:

Please change this

That augment is absolute garbage. At least let allies keep the invis even after attacking.

you can camp your own clone and make them invisible while healing them

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, WinterHE said:

Why have fun playing 'frames that requires you to actually play the game instead of "Press 1 key and gg", right?

Not sure if that's a troll or really thinks so, because some of those pointed 'frames are totally broken and fun to play.

 

And regarding Wukong, this is a very nice rework, at least he will have skills to use now, looking forward to try it.

good, many of us can enjoy playing what we want. I'm getting getting tried of people S#&$ing over frames I like because they're aren't nukers or that they have preferences so high they're ok with removing frames from the game because they don't like them.  If I was S#&$ting over saryn/mesa and asked them to be removed. people would be salty. people want to have hildryn removed, everyone is ok with that but me.  Also hildryn does more then nuke with her one. she buffs teams, tanks, cc and gives energy. 

 

14 minutes ago, Sannidor said:

Nope and nope. You suck at implying. 

Feel free to take a peek at my game profile.

cool beans, check mines too. I still disagree with you're statements. 

Edited by moostar95

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2 minutes ago, vnorberto said:

The "Defy" ability worked well, it made God a character because there was still energy that could not be killed, but for some reason it became buggy after a while because someone was disturbed that it worked well.

What? The only bug Defy has ever had that I can recall is being able to be killed through it whilst knocked down.

Simply saying "it worked well" is not an argument in favour of it working well.

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Got a couple of inputs to the new skills and passives.

First the passives:

I truly appreciate them and i think they are quite unique on their own right, however, being that only 3 of the 5 listed are active (which i assume randomly selected) it should be wise to balance them accordingly. In a way, that having either of them is an alright substitute and not detrimental. Long story short, between getting invisible/invulnerable and getting a boost to the efficiency of my orbs, i'd choose the first one.

Skills:

With the change in wukong status as an extremely durable warframe, i honestly don't mind the changes as much, however i have some suggestions to improve the experience and give some quality of life changes that would help playing with him better.

Celestial Twin:

(working out of assumptions since there is nothing about this) 

  • Make the animation slightly faster
  • If it interrupts movement, please make it so that it doesn't, warframe is a fast game and i think wukong players would benefit a lot from this change!
  • Targeting an enemy places an "icon", similar to ash, that indicates they have been selected.
  • Augment should work on target enemies too, perhaps suspending said enemy till told otherwise by the player or some duration ending. 

Cloud walker:

  • It opens enemies for finishers/ small ragdoll instead of paralyzing/dazing. (they fall down to the ground)
  • Speed at which you travel is multiplicative of your own and increases with power strength

Defy:

Why defy changes are polarizing, i really like this change the most, but i think it could have some improvements to make it easier to the users and appease old defy fans play-style without compromising the vision of the DEVs!

  • Taunting enemies stores damage/ kinetic power, just like you guys described it to be. HOWEVER, releasing that kinetic power should be a player choice.
    It is great that we can release it early but it would better if we could release whenever we want.
    • Holding the skill: Would use the taunt for as long as the button is pressed and once released would trigger the spin counter-attack with the damage stored.
    • PRESSING the skill: Would instead just store the kinetic power as extra armor and range buff to melee/guns alike. With UI wheel similar to nidus or other warframes, to display the damage absorbed. The buff could erode with damage or time, depending on your efficiency.

*This appeases players who like running tanks and liked how wukong had the biggest stick on the block.

Primal fury:

it would be appreciated if it worked with the range buffs above and if the animations didn't impede movement too.

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The biggest problem I see with this rework is that it fails to answer the fact that Wukong has one of the lowest Squad contributions of the Warframes. No team buff, no team heal, no large area crowd control, the only thing he is "bringing to the team" is aggro drawing. Spreading Defy's buff to the squad would really make him more appealing to squads, because right now he still feels like a lone wolf that doesn't care about his allies. 

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1 hour ago, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Replacing Iron Jab, Celestial Twin will allow for Wukong to shed a part of himself to call a supporting clone into action. The clone will attack from range while Wukong uses melee, or will use melee while Wukong uses range.

Make the clone hold the same weapon and attack the same way you're attacking. Or a way for us to control it better, don't leave stuff out of our control...

 

1 hour ago, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Passive

  • 5 Levels of Immortality: Wukong has learned 5 techniques to avoid death whenever he takes fatal damage. Wukong will be randomly allowed 3 of these techniques per mission to avoid death 3 times. Each technique will make Wukong invulnerable for 2 seconds, restore 50% health, and provide a unique buff.
    1. Primal Forces: Triple elemental damage for 60 seconds
    2. Heavenly Cloak: Invisibility for 30 seconds
    3. Cosmic Armour: Invulnerable for 30 seconds
    4. Monkey Luck: Extra loot drops for 60 seconds
    5. Sly Alchemy: Orbs 4x more effective for 60 seconds

RNG is not a good game design, if you can't think of anything just pick one.

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il y a 11 minutes, weirdee a dit :

you can camp your own clone and make them invisible while healing them

So cosplaying Shade but he gets to do with without the energy cost 😂

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1 hour ago, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Primal Rage: Increased cap from 100 to 150%, increased bonus per kill from 10% to 15%. Drain now scales with duration, so the higher Wukong’s duration, the slower it drains, and when Wukong gets a kill the drain stops for 5 seconds. 

I still believe that this is really small buff when khora can recieve +350% damage, wish the cap scaled with power strength

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There's nothing to say about his ability, I'm loving him even more. But the only thing that can be good is more speed and agility, to me Wukong is supposed to be fast, he's a trickster after all. 

 

Except that, every thing seems perfect to me ^^

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)PluggedInBabies said:

because right now he still feels like a lone wolf that doesn't care about his allies. 

Accurate.

1 minute ago, (PS4)SlumbyBear said:

I still believe that this is really small buff when khora can recieve +350% damage, wish the cap scaled with power strength

Assuming nothing else changes, this is huge. Originally it was just +25% crit chance at max for a total of 50% crit chance, 65% with True Steel. Now we'll get 62.5% crit chance, and 77.5% with True Steel.

When you consider how the Gladiator mods work, even the slightest increase to crit chance can make a big difference.

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36 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Of course, but it's still better than a 2 second duration buff I don't notice because I actually mod for a useful 15 seconds instead of 5.

Ok, while I'm slightly concerned with the behavior and survivability of the clone, I can ultimately say this rework is an improvement. Unless his clone fails to be effective.

Please test this S#&$ out before release, and all you PC players...if it sucks spam the forums with complaint threads all around. Don't let them abandon this frame if it doesn't perform to task. You won't get another chance for years.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Unless his clone fails to be effective.

Yeah, that's a grievance of mine as well. Having the clone be targetable, durationless and join Wukong when he uses his Defy and Primal Fury however does go some way to allaying my concerns.

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Posted (edited)

As an avid wukong player, the past 6-8 months I've been "maining" him were a joy. Having the ability to cast defy and skydive into lenz shots without a care in the world to follow up the battle via zaw has been the most fun I've had since I finished the star chart. I was worried about the changes but now Im not so much.

In a previous hotfix, there was a placeholder timer on Defy that escaled off my duration, I assume this was related to the rework? if so, will Defy 2.0 still escale off duration mods? how high will the armor buff be?.

As for the passive changes, I really dont see the point in some of the effects: why would I want to be invisible when cloud is now a valid option? why would I want double loot after I died?. I would rather have the other 3 effects but if they must be 5, I would rather want an extra crit damage buff and a volt-like speed buff instead of those two I mentioned.

Overall, Im very interested in trying these changes out but I would like to insist on retouching the augment for cloud walker, since it wont see any kind of use. If I can make a suggestion, I think it would be pretty useful if wukong was able to share the effects of cloud walker with the rest of the team as long as they are in the cloud, similar to how chroma's 2nd ability works.

--- edit --- Forgot to ask! could you please consider making the current version of defy an augment with some other cost attached? something like extra energy drain or a greater factor that divides the HP

Edited by Luthier_Marke
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Posted (edited)

As always, these changes will need to be tested but they look great to me at first glance. Looks like he'll make a good Exalted-rage-tank while having a nice offensive specter. The passives might be a bit over the top, but i'm sure that's there for the more casual players who will miss the skill. 

edit: typo.

Edited by Finedaible

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Il y a 1 heure, [DE]SpaceySarah a dit :

Passive

 

  • 5 Levels of Immortality: Wukong has learned 5 techniques to avoid death whenever he takes fatal damage. Wukong will be randomly allowed 3 of these techniques per mission to avoid death 3 times. Each technique will make Wukong invulnerable for 2 seconds, restore 50% health, and provide a unique buff.
    1. Primal Forces: Triple elemental damage for 60 seconds
    2. Heavenly Cloak: Invisibility for 30 seconds
    3. Cosmic Armour: Invulnerable for 30 seconds
    4. Monkey Luck: Extra loot drops for 60 seconds
    5. Sly Alchemy: Orbs 4x more effective for 60 seconds

 

Would this be possible to be refreshable somehow? It looks like a great passive however if it only works 3 times per mission it would be quite an empty slot for arbitration and/or endurance runners.
Rest looks like a pleasant surprise! :)
 

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Posted (edited)

This rework looks great! I'm glad I hold onto atleast one of every frame, the 3 forma is really nice of you DE :O. Though I do hope Defy's invuln window scales on duration in order to provide some good survivability. I also hope that you take a look at Iron Staff's stats and consider adding some status, the problem with crit based exalted weapons is that Blood Rush doesnt work which makes it very hard to build it as crit. Adding status chance would open it up to Condition Overload and would greatly help its damage potential. I was never a Wukong player before, but I'm looking forward to giving him another shot!

 

Edit: I missed in the OP that Status Chance, Range, and Slash damage are being added. Missed that the first time.

Edited by Pandabarrel

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I'm sorry, but this is horse crap. How many times has this "set it and forget it" excuse been trotted out in order to justify changing the entire core of a WF? Also why is it so unevenly applied? 

Example: It was used to justify taking a collective dump on Ember's head, changing her Ult without really making her other abilities more robust. I almost never see Ember anymore, because this nerf was slapped on as a band-aid and she was never really improved/balanced past that. While I agree her four needed to be changed, what was done to her made her damn near unplayable. Now let's look at my favorite frame in comparison: Ivara.  Will her stealth be getting a nerf, based on the "set it and forget it" idea? I can literally put her 2 on, and then go get a snack and take a bathroom break. I have timed her stealth (with my current mod set of course.) and I can stay in her prowl from anywhere from 10-15 minutes. Is this not the personification of "set it and forget it?" 
Wukong's entire gimmick is never dying and hitting things with sticks. By completely changing Defy, you are completely changing what Wukong is as a frame. Let me ask you something: Has Wukong's defy ever been truly broken? Certainly not in my opinion. In fact you said yourself he is one of the least used frames. If his defy was ever truly broken, this rework would have happened a long time ago, and he would be close to the top of frames used. In my opinion defy is also in no way "set it and forget it." You have to manage when to have defy on, because it drains a lot of energy, and if you want to use his stick that drains even more. There's interaction, because you have to make the choice of when it is advantageous to have defy on. 
If this "set it and forget it" excuse is going to be used, it should be equally apply to all frames, not just a few because you felt like changing a few things. If you're going to change a frame's entire concept, don't and instead make a new frame that could fit that concept. I'm tired of seeing reworks that boil down to "Ok we don't like thing, so we change thing and not really give a darn about how this changes the frame." Wukong's Defy does not need this kind of a nerf, and in your effort to make him more "playable" you might just kill off any following he had to begin with. 

I hope you take feedback like this to heart, and really give the rework a good hard second look because of it. 

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2 minutes ago, Pandabarrel said:

This rework looks great! I'm glad I hold onto atleast one of every frame, the 3 forma is really nice of you DE :O. Though I do hope Defy's invuln window scales on duration in order to provide some good survivability. I also hope that you take a look at Iron Staff's stats and consider adding some status, the problem with crit based exalted weapons is that Blood Rush doesnt work which makes it very hard to build it as crit. Adding status chance would open it up to Condition Overload and would greatly help its damage potential. I was never a Wukong player before, but I'm looking forward to giving him another shot!

Second bullet point of Primal Fury, they state it's getting a much higher status chance.

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16 minutes ago, Luthier_Marke said:

In a previous hotfix, there was a placeholder timer on Defy that escaled off my duration, I assume this was related to the rework? if so, will Defy 2.0 still escale off duration mods? how high will the armor buff be?.

If I were you, I'd start learning to love Nyx, because she'll be apart of the few able to tank these sort of weapons now.

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1 minute ago, Raptos22 said:

Wukong's Defy does not need this kind of a nerf

It's a buff though.

2 minutes ago, Raptos22 said:

You have to manage when to have defy on, because it drains a lot of energy, and if you want to use his stick that drains even more

Primed Flow + Rage + getting shot by reasonably high level enemies and you shouldn't have any energy concerns at all. Both abilities together total 2 energy per second when running Duration/Efficiency (which you should be doing).

4 minutes ago, Raptos22 said:

I'm tired of seeing reworks that boil down to "Ok we don't like thing, so we change thing and not really give a darn about how this changes the frame."

I'm tired of mindless sheep overreacting because they see other people overreacting, but hey, here we are.

7 minutes ago, Pandabarrel said:

the problem with crit based exalted weapons is that Blood Rush doesnt work which makes it very hard to build it as crit

That's why you use Gladiator mods.

Buffing it's damage, status chance and giving it slash damage makes absolutely no sense to me to be honest. It does more than enough damage already, and how exactly is a stick going to do slash damage?

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