Warframes most people like but you dislike

[Thavie]

Mesa! Was amazed at first but she got old real quick, incredibly boring to play. 

Limbo. That huge cloudy dome just annoys the void out of me.

[YazMatazO]

2 hours ago, .Dracula. said:

Might have to do with the fact that he's one of the best warframes in the game by far, I don't know, just spit balling.

Most people I see with him don't really do much. They either spin, or just stand there collecting orbs for Health Conversion. You wanna tell me that's gameplay?:D

Far more willing to accept that people playing WF generally kinda suck at it.  

[___Operator___]

On 2019-06-14 at 2:10 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Ok first of all Revenants not even in the top 50% In the rankings of most popular to least popular. But since you so desire my ire.

Revenant- the only thing that would make this frame complete in his current state is by changing his model into a giant middle finger. The fact that someone can look at the single most obvious design for an Eidolon Warframe and decide “I’m going to make that into a vampire” infuriates me to no end. Couple that with a first ability that’s not worth casting despite it being the anchor point of all his synergies, one of the most over rated tank abilities in the game (it’s one of the worst), a third ability with functions held back by its design and forced synergies, and a 4th ability that only gives us a glimpse of the frame we could’ve gotten if he wasn’t ruined by selfish desires.

This frame is an abomination. It’s only viable use is as a reference on how to not make a Warframe. And I hope that no other frames are put through the same development that lead to him.

Revenant not viable? wut? mesmer skin overrated?. Revenant is arguably one of the best solo frames in the game. He scales regardless of level and actually takes some form of input and skill to play, hes not set and forget such as iron skin, splinter storm etc. I have no idea where this stigma that hes a bad frame comes from, imo its people who are so fixated on his theme being muddled up they completely ignore how good he is. This is the exact sort of conversations I was having with people when gara came out. "x frame is more tanky, frost is better, shouldn't glass be dps?" and now shes considered one of the best frames in the game.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Khora

you would think for a person with an overall cat theam I would have liked her but for whatever reason she dosnt feel that fun. Moreover I think she was ment to be a spider frame and they changed it somewhere along the line... so her abilitys feel out of place.

same with guruda, and to an extend gara.

 

After Vaklyrs "fix" shes also not as amazing as she use to be but shes still fun.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Fluff-E-Kitty

[kgabor]

Saryn, Mesa; for obvious reasons, boring to play, boring and annoying to have in your team. (unless it's a game mode like ESO)

Rhino: Just plain boring.

Frost and Volt when someone in the team doesn't know how to play and keeps spamming Frost Globes and Speed just to annoy everyone and force them to go afk. so that they can feel good about their epeen with top damage or something.

Speed Nova, just loving it when i'm sniping or using anything that requires some precision, but this is one of my least hated frame builds.

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

3 hours ago, .Dracula. said:

I don't remember her being debuff ever. Before they reworked her and made her terrible, she use to be a press 4 nuke frame and after they reworked her she was just a bad damage frame.

IIRC, she used to deal only viral/toxic damage, so most people simply built her as a Molt+Spore turret. As someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, it took quite a bit of work to make her a nuke frame. She definitely wasn't as popular as she is now. But then again, like Volt she's been through a number of reworks, so it could be that she was Miasma>Spore turret>Nuke>Bigger Nuke.

[THE_ZEEK]

2 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

To be fair, volts speed is low no matter what. A 200% duration build only gets you 16 seconds 

a turnoff the speed from volt button would be great.. i usually traverse the map equally as fast without a buff as a volt with a speedbuff

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, Monochromeatic said:

Revenant not viable? wut? mesmer skin overrated?. Revenant is arguably one of the best solo frames in the game. He scales regardless of level and actually takes some form of input and skill to play, hes not set and forget such as iron skin, splinter storm etc. I have no idea where this stigma that hes a bad frame comes from, imo its people who are so fixated on his theme being muddled up they completely ignore how good he is. This is the exact sort of conversations I was having with people when gara came out. "x frame is more tanky, frost is better, shouldn't glass be dps?" and now shes considered one of the best frames in the game.

BOI!

1: Thralls do not exist. You’re team mates will kill them and Danse Macabre will kill them before you ever get a chance to Reave them. An ability’s no good when someone can render it completely null by walking up and shooting it in the head.

2: The Reave/Thrall combo is one of the absolute WORST synergies in the game. Anchoring all your self sustain on something that’s liable to die before you even reach it with an ability that’s very restrictive with its movement it’s terrible. Not to mention that literally every other 1shot capability in the game is better than it. And the fact that Reave is completely reliant on Thralls to do anything is horrible. Almost to the same level of First reveal Wisps 3 requiring her 1 to be out to be cast.

3: Mesmer Skins 100% Damage reduction is 100% redundant. Only a small percent of the community actively go to levels beyond level 150. And even then all the tank abilities that give damage reduction have ways of keeping their duration going be it through scaling or recasting. And they can do that without running away to hide in a corner to recast too. Pair that up with an Arcane Grace, Adaptation and maybe an Elevate and you’ve got a frame that’s borderline immortal. All while Revenant is running off every 30 seconds to recast his Mesmer Skin because he’s stuck with the same number of charges the entire mission.

4: Revenant is nothing like Gara. Gara is great but that initial nerf to her 4 turned people away from her and she didn’t start becoming popular until she received her buff (She also got no coverage from the WFtubers after her buff, making her rise in popularity even slower). Revenant on the other hand has abilities that are flawed to their very core and DE tried to stack as many different mechanics and synergies on top of them to try and make him work. But you try making a house on a bad foundation all you’ll end up with is a pile of rubble.

5: Contrary to what you think. The problem with his theme is a major component to how badly he turned out. It should have been obvious. He looks like an Eidolon, make him an Eidolon Frame. But no! Somebody wanted a vampire instead. So you get a frame with abilities that don’t correlate with his appearance (and obvious theme) in the slightest. Then Steve goes “The Eidolon Frame actually does need Eidolon stuff”. And that’s where we got Danse Macabre (his only good ability). Which gave us a small glimpse of what Revenant could have been if he wasn’t the victim of someone’s selfish desire for a vampire frame.

Revenant is hands down the pinnacle of terrible design and a waste of two potentially great frame themes. He is a waste of development resources, data storage space, and the graphite that was used to draw his concept art. If we ever get another frame that goes through the same degree of development as Revenant, it would be far too soon.

Edited June 30, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Xzorn]

• Inaros - Horrible Kit and massively overrated durability due to players not actually playing difficult content.
• Octavia - Broken as hell and we all know it. Incredibly boring to play optimally.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

Clem

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

4 hours ago, THE_ZEEK said:

a turnoff the speed from volt button would be great.. i usually traverse the map equally as fast without a buff as a volt with a speedbuff

Thats cause those volts speeds arent over 300% 😉 

[___Operator___]

4 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

-snip-

Of course, since someone doesn't play high level content where some abilities shine and stand out its easier to just dismiss them and say x ability is better because low level enemies don't dish out enough damage to warrant such a skill. Honestly I'm sorry to say it but if you struggle to play revenant at high levels then you need to git gud. I've solo'd arbs missions countless times for an hour plus while utilizing his entire kit, something isn't bad just because you don't know how to use it. "So many tank frames that are immortal" Reeeeallly? so they are immune to self damage right? or don't die instantly to grenades? "But adaptation!" Only works if you build up a resistance to the damage types, grenades are blast, I've seen 8k hp inaros's drop dead to a single grenade on MOT. 

Revenant does not shine on low level content, his specialty sort of speak is endurance runs, arbs, missions, that high level content where traditional tank frames just don't cut it, in that area he is fantastic. You can't say to me hes only got one skill that's good when myself and others have casually used him to carry missions. Hes amazing for index and a hard carry frame for arbitrations since there is no penalty for picking up drone points, can inaros do that? gara? trinity? Nidus? No they can't.

This thread is about stating frames you dislike etc and I'm all down for it, I seriously hate the way revenant looks, the sound effects on him drive me up the wall too, completely warranted things to complain about but saying his kit is terrible when there are so many amazing feats accomplished by him is downright ignorant.

The fact you stated that you had to run away to cast mesmer skin says enough in itself, rolling guard is a thing, if you had invested even the slightest bit of time in getting to grips with how he play's you'd would have figured it out.

[Xzorn]

38 minutes ago, Monochromeatic said:

Of course, since someone doesn't play high level content where some abilities shine and stand out its easier to just dismiss them and say x ability is better because low level enemies don't dish out enough damage to warrant such a skill. Honestly I'm sorry to say it but if you struggle to play revenant at high levels then you need to git gud. I've solo'd arbs missions countless times for an hour plus while utilizing his entire kit, something isn't bad just because you don't know how to use it. "So many tank frames that are immortal" Reeeeallly? so they are immune to self damage right? or don't die instantly to grenades? "But adaptation!" Only works if you build up a resistance to the damage types, grenades are blast, I've seen 8k hp inaros's drop dead to a single grenade on MOT.

 

Singing my song with this one.

If you rotate his kit with Rolling Guard he's effectively immortal and the scaling potential of Reave is nice. He's not really my style but not too hard to see the potential as an endurance runner. I often question DE's choices when they go out of their way to remove grey bar immortal but have frames with 188k eHP + Adaptation.

They're both immortal if you don't push them in levels.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, Monochromeatic said:

-snapple-

Oh look another person who says “You just don’t know how to use the frame, you really suck and need to git gud”. The fact that you’d go to that level already tells me how desperate you are to try and be right about this.

I understand how Revenant works. And I judge him purely on a design perspective where player skill is not a major factor. Also I don’t bring Revenant to anything as I don’t feel like being sick throughout the duration of the mission looking at the backend of a trash Warframe when there are literally 40+ better options.

What are you doing throwing yourself into the explosion of self damage weapons? They are SELF DAMAGE weapons. You talk about the need to “git gud” yet you appear to lack the capability of dodging a simple grenade that you yourself fired.

I said “borderline immortal” meaning that they can die but you have to put in some serious effort into getting yourself killed. Let’s take Nidus for Example. 90% damage reduction from parasitic link, 90% damage reduction from Adaptation, arbitrary % damage reduction from his 1k armor (and throw arcane guardians armor buff on that too), and one of the best passives in the game that makes him literally unkillable.

Revenant doesn’t shine anywhere. Every one of his abilities is completely outclassed by frames that can do what Rev does but 10x better. Want to crowd control? That’s on just about every new frame released, and they’re far better than Enthrall because unlike that ability, they can’t be killed. Want to tank? Take your pick. Nidus, Inaros, Rhino, Chroma, Baruuk, Nezha, etc. Want a movement ability? Literally any of them are better than Reave. Want an AOE damage ability?  Mesa, Equinox, Garuda. You claim that he’s good against levels that other frames struggle against. Well I’m telling you that if you focus your precious “skill” towards any of the frames listed above and they are bound to outperform Revenant.

“He is amazing for Index”. Congratulations! You found the only game mode where Mesmer Skins charges aren’t complete garbage because the enemy density isn’t as high as it is in other gamemodes. Also who brings Nidus to an Arbitration? Ew. I love Nidus but still, don’t bring a frame that requires enemies for their abilities to Arbs. I’ve done 1hr+ Arb runs with Baruuk but you don’t see me praising him like he’s the golden pinnacle of design. Because he’s not, and neither is Revenant.

A Warframe should not require an Arbitration mod to make a single ability function to a similar degree as other abilities of that category. Literally every other tank frame has some method of immediate crowd control to protect them as they recast their tank ability (except Chroma, but he can reset the duration so he doesn’t need breathing room). The fact that Revenant needs an Arbitration mod to do the thing that every tank frame has by default is pathetic. Mods are supposed to enhance abilities, not make excuses for them.

 Let’s go into something you didn’t mention.

AntiSynergies- Revenant is the current record holder for the most amount of AntiSynergies.

1: Danse Macabre destroys Enthralls Damage pillars. Now while the damage pillars are fundamentally useless at least they are trying to do something and the fact that they are just deleted by the ability you should be using the most is bad design.

2: Mesmer Skin actively prevents Danse Macabre from reaching its maximum damage output. Danse Macabre has a little known mechanic where any damage Revenant receives while using the ability will be converted into damage DM deals. Except Mesmer Skin actively disabled enemies meaning every time you get shot you gain an immediate increase to DPS but lose potential DPS because your taking away the things giving you that damage.

You can call me ignorant all you want. But I stand by my argument that Revenant is the worst designed frame in the game. It doesn’t matter how many bells and whistles DE throws onto him. As long as his abilities stay the way they are. Revenant will always be trash. And that’s the truth.

Edited July 1, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[nslay]

23 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I understand how Revenant works. And I judge him purely on a design perspective where player skill is not a major factor. Also I don’t bring Revenant to anything as I don’t feel like being sick throughout the duration of the mission looking at the backend of a trash Warframe when there are literally 40+ better options.

You've demonstrated to me repeatedly that you really don't. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... because well, you admittedly won't play him for more than 5 minutes (says you yourself in our own correspondence a while back). I am being objective here ... you actually don't know anything about playing Revenant. This is not an opinion either... You just really don't know. Your claims are all a work of your own imagination of playing Revenant.

You know what I think? You don't like Revenant because he doesn't conform with a pure Eidolon theme and all of these other points that you try to make (and fail miserably for the most part) are just an excuse for that. I won't fault you for disliking Revenant for appearing like an Eidolon-themed Warframe with qualities un-Eidolon-like. I do fault you for imagining things about a Warframe you don't and won't play.

36 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You can call me ignorant all you want. But I stand by my argument that Revenant is the worst designed frame in the game. It doesn’t matter how many bells and whistles DE throws onto him. As long as his abilities stay the way they are. Revenant will always be trash. And that’s the truth.

You admitted that you don't and won't play Revenant. You have admitted your own ignorance (repeatedly).

[(XBOX)Salty Ginger]

Limbo is the one that comes to mind. Maybe one day ill use him for more than just affinity fodder 

[nslay]

3 hours ago, Monochromeatic said:

The fact you stated that you had to run away to cast mesmer skin says enough in itself, rolling guard is a thing, if you had invested even the slightest bit of time in getting to grips with how he play's you'd would have figured it out.

That's cool. I didn't know that! I usually do one of two things:

1) I Enthrall someone and then cast Mesmer Skin because Enthrall almost immediately takes all focus off of you.

2) I run/jump and then cast Mesmer Skin in mid air.

I will look into Rolling Guard. But I much rather use Natural Talent!

 

You will not convince GearsMatrix of anything. Perusing the Revenant discussions all the way back to his release, you will find his views pretty much the same as they are now. You can even try to explain to him how you play Revenant effectively in all these different types of missions and he will tell you that it doesn't work (I have tried to explain how you can use everything from Enthrall in multiplayer to Mesmer Skin against Grineer). You can show him screenshots of the score screen of Revenant taking 0% damage in higher level content and he will still tell you Mesmer Skin doesn't work well. I am actually a bit surprised that he even agrees that Revenant works great in Index.

That said, GearsMatrix is at least familiar with some of the less known Revenant ability/passive details (like his lame shield depletion passive). But, as you can see, detailed understanding of his ability mechanics on paper is really no substitute for actual in-game experience with the frame. After all, everything GearsMatrix says you can't do or do well with Revenant, you and I do almost everyday!

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, nslay said:

You've demonstrated to me repeatedly that you really don't. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... because well, you admittedly won't play him for more than 5 minutes (says you yourself in our own correspondence a while back). I am being objective here ... you actually don't know anything about playing Revenant. This is not an opinion either... You just really don't know. Your claims are all a work of your own imagination of playing Revenant.

You know what I think? You don't like Revenant because he doesn't conform with a pure Eidolon theme and all of these other points that you try to make (and fail miserably for the most part) are just an excuse for that. I won't fault you for disliking Revenant for appearing like an Eidolon-themed Warframe with qualities un-Eidolon-like. I do fault you for imagining things about a Warframe you don't and won't play.

You admitted that you don't and won't play Revenant. You have admitted your own ignorance (repeatedly).

Hey that 1% play time is more than enough for me to gauge his usefulness. Maybe if he receives more changes that’ll go up to 1.1%. But for now He stays in my arsenal with all his mod loadouts renamed to “trash”. And yes a percentage of my hatred towards him is due to the absolute butcher of his theme, but it’s also because the person who did that to him is the same person who gave him his first 3 powers, they’re also not a game developer who has no business designing anything to be put into a video game but someone still let them make the Nyx rework.

Also, I’m sorry but unless you have actual proof of your claim whatever you say about me is just an opinion. With play percentages being as weird as they are that 1% could be anything from 1 hour to 100 hours.

And if you want me to stop hating Revenant demand a rework.

[JawNuts]

Volt. I do not consent to Speed boost. I keep backflipping just to cancel the damn speed. Also, I find Volt's 4 is annoying, he keep spamming the thing like its his way of breathing. It doesn't do much damage on higher levels.

Edited July 1, 2019 by JawNuts

[nslay]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Hey that 1% play time is more than enough for me to gauge his usefulness. Maybe if he receives more changes that’ll go up to 1.1%. But for now He stays in my arsenal with all his mod loadouts renamed to “trash”. And yes a percentage of my hatred towards him is due to the absolute butcher of his theme, but it’s also because the person who did that to him is the same person who gave him his first 3 powers, they’re also not a game developer who has no business designing anything to be put into a video game but someone still let them make the Nyx rework.

Also, I’m sorry but unless you have actual proof of your claim whatever you say about me is just an opinion. With play percentages being as weird as they are that 1% could be anything from 1 hour to 100 hours.

And if you want me to stop hating Revenant demand a rework.

You understand that when you wrote that you had built Revenant to have 28 some odd Mesmer Skin stacks and had trouble surviving, that you almost completely lost all credibility? And this is followed by a string of claims and observations that fly in the face of actual experience with Revenant... problems that you don't experience when you have played Revenant and know how to play Revenant.

The problem here is that you don't know how to play Revenant. It's that simple. I have spent hundreds of hours with him now and none of your observations are even close to reality. You imagine shortcomings solely based on your understanding of his abilities on paper. I am telling you (and the poster you responded to also told you, and many others before him have told you) that you are almost completely wrong on almost every count from Enthrall to Mesmber Skin to Danse Macabre. You really have no idea what you're talking about!

Look, why would I play Revenant for hundreds of hours from anything from Arbitrations or Sorties or Index or Ropalolyst or whatever if he's so bad? Because he's actually pretty good at all these different missions and against all factions (particularly because he's easy mode for surviving almost anything!). He's one of the best tanks in the game while having an array of abilities covering a variety of challenges and situations. You nitpick his abilities because other frames can nuke better or can do CC better. But none of those frames survive like Revenant. And I consider Reave his most powerful skill since it can one-two shot almost anything regardless of its level, armor, life, etc...

P.S. By the way, I take 0% damage in Grineer/Corpus/Corrupted/Infested Arbitrations (Defense/Survival/whatever... doesn't matter)... and I do it with 13 stacks to your 28 or so... I also revive lots of players in Arbitrations (because the orange index points don't actually effect Revenant).

[Blatantfool]

Something about Chroma just doesn't click with me. I've always just wrote it off as being a playstyle thing.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 minutes ago, nslay said:

 

P.S. By the way, I take 0% damage in Grineer/Corpus/Corrupted/Infested Arbitrations (Defense/Survival/whatever... doesn't matter)... and I do it with 13 stacks to your 28 or so... I also revive lots of players in Arbitrations (because the orange index points don't actually effect Revenant).

Guess what. Rhino can do that exact Same thing. So can Limbo and Baruuk. Surprise 0% damage taken isn’t special.

Also. I never claimed I had trouble surviving with 28 charges. I said that even with 28 charges they still dropped incredible fast. Please. If you’re going to accuse someone of the same thing every single post keep it consistent. Also it’s wasn’t a build, it was from Arbitration’s 300% power str bonus.

And again, you’re just another “You just don’t know how to play him. Git gud scrub” people who I can’t take seriously. If I wanted my intellect insulted I’d do something genuinely stupid like say Mesa is bad. At least then the people who would be telling me I’m wrong would actually have a valid point to make.

And as to why you would play Revenant in all these different game modes? Seems more like an act of self loathing or actually enjoying the frame.

I’ve said this countless times. He’s not one of the best tanks. Mesmer charges was something that worked fine in Archwing on Amesha, but their as effective as a wet tissue in normal gameplay. And 100% damage reduction doesn’t justify an ability that doesn’t last long. Reave cannot one-two shot anything. It can only 1-2 shot thralls. Of which there can only be 7 of at a time. That you have to steer over with a worse version of Cloudwalker. Not that any of that matters because your squadmate with his kripath zaw just killed all those thralls and all the enemies surrounding them. But why do any of that when you have Garuda who can 1 shot a group of any number of enemies within 5 seconds.

Also, constantly repeating “You don’t know how to play Revenant” doesn’t magically make that statement true. It just makes it look like you have no valid counterpoint to my arguments (because there are none *highfive*).

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, Blatantfool said:

Something about Chroma just doesn't click with me. I've always just wrote it off as being a playstyle thing.

I always found that he requires far too much investment on all these different things just to be a weapon buffing tank.

[nslay]

23 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

And again, you’re just another “You just don’t know how to play him. Git gud scrub” people who I can’t take seriously. If I wanted my intellect insulted I’d do something genuinely stupid like say Mesa is bad. At least then the people who would be telling me I’m wrong would actually have a valid point to make.

I'm not trying to insult your intellect. I am pointing out your ignorance of Revenant. You point out a lot of problems and situations with him that don't really exist. It is obvious to anyone who seriously plays Revenant that you don't play Revenant and don't know how to play him. Do you realize that? It's no leap of logic that when you claim something so completely divergent from experience that one could conclude that you don't know what you're talking about! Almost every critique you have does not reflect actual game play experience with Revenant. Therefore, you almost certainly don't play Revenant and don't know how to play him.

And you know what's worse? People have corrected you, have debated with you, have explained how to play Revenant with you, have even shown you screenshots. I'm one of those people! Even other posts like Ranking of Tanks with discussion from multiple posters about Mesmer Skin... Revenant was ultimately ranked #2 for tanks by that poster... It's astounding that you continue make these claims. You cannot be convinced or reasoned with! You won't even see for yourself by playing Revenant.

Don't get me wrong, I respect you as the veteran Warframe player you are. You're clearly an experienced player. But do you see me critiquing frames I'm not familiar with the way you do? Because you're clearly not familiar with Revenant beyond what's written on paper.

8 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’ve said this countless times. He’s not one of the best tanks. Mesmer charges was something that worked fine in Archwing on Amesha, but their as effective as a wet tissue in normal gameplay.

Look! This is a great example! See this? This flies in the face of any actual experience with Revenant. People have literally shown you screenshots of their score screen of Mesmer Skin working so effectively as to take 0% damage in sorties/arbitrations. There was even a ranking of tanks post a while back where Revenant is placed #2 because of how effective Mesmer Skin is. Multiple posters even pointed it out to the OP in that thread. But don't let any of this stand your way. Continue to claim it doesn't work well.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

I don’t think it’s about Frames, it’s more about players and how they play them.