Screenshake makes me sick. Stop Adding it to Weapons Please!

[Drasiel]

Ever since the wonderful day that the turn off screen shake button was added I have been overjoyed. No longer did I get nauseous while playing warframe! However a recent trend has once again made me both ill and really sad. The addition of more weapons with screen shake as recoil.

Currently off the top of my head I cannot use these weapons at all. I get nauseous, get a headache, and even suffer dizzyness while using them.

• dual decurions
• Larkspur
• hipfire Zenith (after the mini rework it received)
• dual cestra
• secura dual cestra

Please I cannot stress enough how using screen shake in place of recoil will make users ill and prevents them from using weapons with it at all. I already spent several years being unable to use all heavy melee weapons because their animations had inherent screen shake before the no screen shake toggle was added.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Drasiel
more weapons

[(NSW)Kokojo]

just don't use them

[Drasiel]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

just don't use them

Been there, done that. If there is an option to disable screen shake it should work on all screen shake.

[(NSW)Kokojo]

3 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Been there, done that. If there is an option to disable screen shake it should work on all screen shake.

For the 2 Archguns this is expected and unfortunelly can't be avoided.

As for Zenith, don't mods do the work?
 

But if your problem is that, just don't use them. It's not like every weapon that comes out will have this thing.

 

[Drasiel]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

For the 2 Archguns this is expected and unfortunelly can't be avoided.

As for Zenith, don't mods do the work?
 

But if your problem is that, just don't use them. It's not like every weapon that comes out will have this thing.

 

My biggest enjoyment in this game is leveling up new weapons by using them and learning the ins and outs of their behavior. If one of your favorite parts of warframe released content that you couldn't use wouldn't you give feedback asking for it to change to be accessible? Yeah there are a lot of guns, but something that causes motion sickness in a wide swath of players shouldn't be used as a balancing mechanic for gun behavior.

[Drasiel]

You can use mods to reduce the screen shake on the zenith but, and it's a big but, it takes 2 mods to remove it entirely one of which is a corrupted mod and costs you fire rate as the downside. One mod, okay acceptable I can deal but two slots and a corrupted negative? No way is that acceptable.

[(NSW)Kokojo]

5 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

My biggest enjoyment in this game is leveling up new weapons by using them and learning the ins and outs of their behavior. If one of your favorite parts of warframe released content that you couldn't use wouldn't you give feedback asking for it to change to be accessible? Yeah there are a lot of guns, but something that causes motion sickness in a wide swath of players shouldn't be used as a balancing mechanic for gun behavior.

Some players might like this mechanic where Big guns make your screen shake, if you can't keep up with it, then toss them aside.

 

1 minute ago, Drasiel said:

You can use mods to reduce the screen shake on the zenith but, and it's a big but, it takes 2 mods to remove it entirely one of which is a corrupted mod and costs you fire rate as the downside. One mod, okay acceptable I can deal but two slots and a corrupted negative? No way is that acceptable.

You can't have everything.
Use the mods and get rid of the recoil, or don't use them and live with the recoil.


I might sound a bit ignorant here because I really don't get why complanin about something that is easily avoidable. 
You like min-maxing weapons? Ok. You don't like those weapons in particular because it makes you sick? Don't use them.

For example I hate how bright some weapons/abilities are, turning their energy color to black will just make their projectile inivible, so I just don't use them and move on. am I losing something? Yes. Do I care? Yes. Can I take it? No. Then I just move on.

 

[Drasiel]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

Some players might like this mechanic where Big guns make your screen shake, if you can't keep up with it, then toss them aside.

 

You can't have everything.
Use the mods and get rid of the recoil, or don't use them and live with the recoil.


I might sound a bit ignorant here because I really don't get why complanin about something that is easily avoidable. 
You like min-maxing weapons? Ok. You don't like those weapons in particular because it makes you sick? Don't use them.

For example I hate how bright some weapons/abilities are, turning their energy color to black will just make their projectile inivible, so I just don't use them and move on. am I losing something? Yes. Do I care? Yes. Can I take it? No. Then I just move on.

 

Yes some players might like the mechanic that is why a toggle to enable and disable screen shake was added to options.

Really, 2 mods and a corrupted negative to make a weapon not cause motion sickness is considered okay by you?

I complain because screen shake has for literal decades in games caused motion sickness. I complain because it makes certain weapons completely unplayable for people who get motion sickness from screen shake. I complain because I really really like the #*!%ing weapons with screen shake and can't use them.

For your issue there are actually a bunch of different options to fix it. there is:

• an effects intensity slider that will reduce that
• you can decrease or  turn off bloom,
• you can disable adaptive exposure
• you can disable high Dynamic range  and you don't have to use pure black
• You don't have to go full black most darker colours will reduce brightness and I recommend red because it's in a lower colour spectrum anyway.

For my issue there is a single option that doesn't work on screen shake as recoil, or equipping two mods and gimping your build on the weapon.

[(NSW)Kokojo]

38 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

• an effects intensity slider that will reduce that
• you can decrease or  turn off bloom,
• you can disable adaptive exposure
• you can disable high Dynamic range  and you don't have to use pure black
• You don't have to go full black most darker colours will reduce brightness and I recommend red because it's in a lower colour spectrum anyway.

I will not turn down the whole game just to bear a single thing, I like my settings how they are and I can just not use them.
Wisp's sun for example, it's amazing, but I avoid using it because I like my eyes. Mirage's clones for example, I ways stick to a weapon with low effects to avoid intense flashes, as much as I want to use Sonicor on her, I can't take it, so I don't use it.

38 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Really, 2 mods and a corrupted negative to make a weapon not cause motion sickness is considered okay by you?

For my issue there is a single option that doesn't work on screen shake as recoil, or equipping two mods and gimping your build on the weapon.

Yes it is? I can assume that to deal with "normal" or "unusual" scaling of the game you don't need a build to overkill everything, giving up 2 mod spaces for... one weapon... might not be that big of a deal. I build my weapons the way I feel confortable with. 

If you are getting into mod space, then I don't see why are you complaning since 98.9% of the builds are the same thing.

38 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Yes some players might like the mechanic that is why a toggle to enable and disable screen shake was added to options.

I complain because screen shake has for literal decades in games caused motion sickness. I complain because it makes certain weapons completely unplayable for people who get motion sickness from screen shake. I complain because I really really like the #*!%ing weapons with screen shake and can't use them.

I mean, you CAN use them, but you don't feel good using them, so you avoid them, and then you complain about the issue that you don't feel good using them and that should be changed.

If the screenshake goes away, then how should the weapon recoil be? 

100% accurate? Sure, they can go for it, but that would be blunt and boring imo. Yet another beam/ gun that just throw up damage.

A beam that goes all over the place? Innacurate bullets? That will break other people's experience and might as well make you dislike the weapon because innacurcy.

Edited June 14, 2019 by (NSW)Kokojo

[Drasiel]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

I will not turn down the whole game just to bear a single thing, I like my settings how they are and I can't just not use them.
Wisp's sun for example, it's amazing, but I avoid using it because I like my eyes. Mirage's clones for example, I ways stick to a weapon with low effects to avoid intense flashes, as much as I want to use Sonicor on her, I can't take it, so I don't use it.

Yes it is? I can assume that to deal with "normal" or "unusual" scaling of the game you don't need a build to overkill everything, giving up 2 mod spaces for... one weapon... might not be that big of a deal. I build my weapons the way I feel confortable with. 

If you are getting into mod space, then I don't see why are you complaning since 98.9% of the builds are the same thing.

I mean, you CAN use them, but you don't feel good using them, so you avoid them, and then you complain about the issue that you don't feel good using them and that should be changed.

If the screenshake goes away, then how should the weapon recoil be? 

100% accurate? Sure, they can go for it, but that would be blunt and boring imo. Yet another beam/ gun that just throw up damage.

A beam that goes all over the place? Innacurate bullets? That will break other people's experience and might as well make you dislike the weapon because innacurcy.

you uh... don't have to use every option I listed normally 1 is enough to fix that.

No it's not, unless you consider arbitrations, eidolons, orb mother's and the final sortie to be outside of normal gameplay.

If a recurring mechanic in a game can literally can make you throw up, give you a headache and make you dizzy enough to get vertigor that is not a good thing to be in a game and puts them pretty far into the category of "can't use them". A comparable thing to say is that people who have epilepsy CAN watch flashing lights they just don't feel good doing it.

They don't have to be 100% accurate, all that would have to be done is restrict the recoil to either the vertical or horizontal  axis. Hell you could even do something weird like diagonals. Right now it behaves as if the recoil is in circular area and picks any point within that circle to recoil too.

[Test-995]

5 hours ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

just don't use them

Just don't use "no shake" option then, it doesn't affect your experience in any way.

[modalmojo]

8 hours ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

..............

If the screenshake goes away, then how should the weapon recoil be? 

.................

Screen shake can be different from weapon recoil, the recoil can still be present if there is an option to turn the screen shake off, it is like your screen just does not shake but you can clearly see that your weapon is kicking up and down due to the recoil, thus affecting the accuracy.

Nothing stops you to keep the recoil on if that is your preference, but there are some people who have motion sickness that you do not have prefer to remove the screen shake, that is why the OP is here to suggest the option, not to demand to remove it permanently (only those without empathy would say such a thing anyway), his preference has zero effect on yours.  

 

[Illgore]

13 hours ago, Drasiel said:

 

Currently off the top of my head I cannot use these weapons at all. I get nauseous, get a headache, and even suffer dizzyness while using them.

 

May I politely ask what the cause of that is? I'm just curious, is it some sort of gene defect or just that you are not used to it (like some people having a hard time on a rollercoaster)? If it's the latter (which I assume with no offense 😉 ), you could try to get used to it (like some people do in chase of rollercoaster and other thing that might cause these kind of problems).

I'm all for supporting handicapped people, but on the other hand, we shouldn't encourage the lack of training (for things that are normal and where people could get used to, but do choose to not put any effort into it). Cause otherwise I'll start a thread about how circle strafing makes me feel sic and that it should therefore get restricted..^^

Edited June 15, 2019 by Illgore

[Test-995]

2 hours ago, Illgore said:

I'm all for supporting handicapped people, but on the other hand, we shouldn't encourage the lack of training (for things that are normal and where people could get used to, but do choose to not put any effort into it). Cause otherwise I'll start a thread about how circle strafing makes me feel sic and that it should therefore get restricted..^^

Actually you could start a thread about that, only problem is that may be against design philosophy of developers.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Test-995

[Illgore]

18 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Actually you could start a thread about that, only problem is that may be against design philosophy of developers.

how should I put this into words (english is my 3rd language..^^).

I differentiate between handicaps where your own mind is the problem and real handicaps.

As example, I did had fear of height as a child, but I also wanted to ride on a rollercoaster. So I learned to get over it and also learned that imho people in these situations need help. I hope that this doesn't violate the forum policy in any kind, but this is my honest opinion. Cause what would have been the other options? Either never riding a rollercoaster or asking the rollercoaster company to rebuild it with smaller height? I mean, that would have killed the purpose of it. And what have we here so far? Someone getting (maybe to much) disoriented by an effect that's whole purpose is to disorient you. Is it so far stretched to ask kindly if it is a real handicap (as described in my words, sry don't know how to put it else and I hope no one feels offended here..) or as self dogmatic handicap (as I describes from my own expirience)?

[Drasiel]

5 hours ago, Illgore said:

May I politely ask what the cause of that is? I'm just curious, is it some sort of gene defect or just that you are not used to it (like some people having a hard time on a rollercoaster)? If it's the latter (which I assume with no offense 😉 ), you could try to get used to it (like some people do in chase of rollercoaster and other thing that might cause these kind of problems).

I'm all for supporting handicapped people, but on the other hand, we shouldn't encourage the lack of training (for things that are normal and where people could get used to, but do choose to not put any effort into it). Cause otherwise I'll start a thread about how circle strafing makes me feel sic and that it should therefore get restricted..^^

Motion sickness occurs in connection with travel or movement when an incongruity comes about between visually perceived movement and the vestibular system's sense of bodily movement. Most kinds are considered terrestrial motion sickness, such as being carsick, airsick, seasick, or sick from reality simulation. Symptoms include dizziness, fatigue, vertigo, depressed appetite, nonspecific malaise, gastrointestinaldiscomfort, (most commonly) nausea, and nausea-caused vomiting (see Sopite syndrome). If the cause of the nausea is not resolved, the sufferer will usually vomit, but vomiting may not relieve the feeling of weakness and nausea, which means the person might continue to vomit until the underlying cause of the nausea is resolved.

TL;DR: your eyes see motion that your body doesn't feel and it really screws you up. 

I have tried "getting over it" by reducing play time and exposing myself to the gentler causes of this with very little success. The only thing that happens is that with smaller shakes it takes a little bit longer to occur but the severity has not decreased. I didn't use to be affected by this as badly but a cuncussion six years ago seems to have done me no favours in this regard. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Drasiel
Dammit can't remove formatting on phone. Will fix later.

[JujuHex]

20 hours ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

just don't use them

Kinda rude and mean spirited comment don't you think? Just shows lack of empathy towards people who suffer from conditions that you can't even imagine.

 

19 hours ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

If the screenshake goes away, then how should the weapon recoil be?

 

Gee... I don't know... recoil should look like... recoil maybe?  No reason for recoil to be screenshake.  They are two completely different things.

 

I wan't to apologize to @Drasiel on behalf of all the players that refuse to remove their shoes and attempt to take a few steps in the shoes of others.

Suffering a head injury some years ago left me with some side effects that lasted for around 2 years, including vertigo and photosensitivity.
During that time, DE changed the position of the minimap from the top right side of the screen to the top left.  That simple single detail messed with what my brain expected and made me dizzy to the point that I had to stop playing for a couple months. I totally understand where you are coming from and yes, you are 100% completely right, screenshake and recoil should not be interchangable. They are two different things, and this most likely is a simple oversight by DE.

In my experience, DE has always been careful with and listened to the needs of those who have special needs and / or conditions. Corpus locker rework highly catered to the color blind! I will always miss the old lockers and their more readily identifiable red and green colors (for me of course), but I totally understood where this change was coming from and accepted it as a minor inconvenience that I could quickly get over, so that a not-so-small chunk of the player base (more people have color blindness than most imagine) could have a better gaming experience.

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by JujuHex
Forma

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

20 hours ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

just don't use them

How is that a solution? I really loathe stupid comments like these made by equally stupid people like you.

Edited June 15, 2019 by (PS4)LoisGordils

[Drasiel]

I can understand the complaint that removing screenshake as recoil will make guns more accurate but this is really a non issue. Normal recoil could be added to these guns or even have sniper hip fire miss chance added to them. Before anyone says "but you can't compensate for miss chance like you can for recoil" you can't compensate for the current recoil on these guns anyway. 

Also thanks guys. 

[Illgore]

6 hours ago, Drasiel said:

Motion sickness occurs in connection with travel or movement when an incongruity comes about between visually perceived movement and the vestibular system's sense of bodily movement. Most kinds are considered terrestrial motion sickness, such as being carsick, airsick, seasick, or sick from reality simulation. Symptoms include dizziness, fatigue, vertigo, depressed appetite, nonspecific malaise, gastrointestinaldiscomfort, (most commonly) nausea, and nausea-caused vomiting (see Sopite syndrome). If the cause of the nausea is not resolved, the sufferer will usually vomit, but vomiting may not relieve the feeling of weakness and nausea, which means the person might continue to vomit until the underlying cause of the nausea is resolved.

TL;DR: your eyes see motion that your body doesn't feel and it really screws you up. 

I have tried "getting over it" by reducing play time and exposing myself to the gentler causes of this with very little success. The only thing that happens is that with smaller shakes it takes a little bit longer to occur but the severity has not decreased. I didn't use to be affected by this as badly but a cuncussion six years ago seems to have done me no favours in this regard. 

I hope that it is only something temporary and that you'll soon feel better. As far as your posted description says, they seem to be the symptoms and not the explanation of the cause.
A friend of mine sometimes have similar problems when he needs new glasses due to diopter change. And when he has these moments he also relates stress to making it worse. Dunno how it is for you, but maybe keep an eye on your stress level?

[Drasiel]

2 hours ago, Illgore said:

I hope that it is only something temporary and that you'll soon feel better. As far as your posted description says, they seem to be the symptoms and not the explanation of the cause.
A friend of mine sometimes have similar problems when he needs new glasses due to diopter change. And when he has these moments he also relates stress to making it worse. Dunno how it is for you, but maybe keep an eye on your stress level?

It's basically a sensitivity in the balance systems of the body. There isn't a cause per say like a flu or cancer it's just something that either affects you or doesn't. There are some things that can affect it like head injuries and I've had friends stop getting car sick after puberty but it's basically just something you have to deal with forever. 

[EinheriarJudith]

the one thing i still to this day cant wrap around my brain is why there is shooting screen shake in a third person game. i can understand screen shake from recoil in first person but never for third person.

i remember playing conan exiles and getting headaches from chopping trees and hitting rocks due to the screen shake from actions. mind you this was while i was playing in third person.

i am for adding the remove screen shake from weapons.