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Nerfing Loot-frame synergy in a loot oriented game is a terrible idea

(PSN)ChaosTheNerd

By (PSN)ChaosTheNerd,
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(PSN)ChaosTheNerd

(PSN)ChaosTheNerd

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"Fixed Chesa/Desecrate double dipping with Hydroid/Khora.

  • **Added info: When we added the Nightwave challenge for the Silver Grove, we encouraged a return to content that normally would have been fine. A small handful of players found an exploit and as we looked into things, we thought we fixed the issue with the new Chesa behavior that could lead to problems. We didn't. We decided to cut a bit deeper. Ivara's looting ability is now the only one that stacks with other looting because it works while alive. If a target is dead, a successful loot now happens once, no matter the source. However, multiple can attempt to loot the same body. Yes... this is different from how it previously behaved, but this is the new intended behavior."

 

If there was an issue with the chesa kubrow double dipping with other loot frames, what exactly is the point in nerfing the other loot frames? The whole loot team consisting of hydroid, nekros, and khora's new augment is greatly affected by the removal of this synergy. Again like in the title, nerfing loot-frame synergy in a loot oriented game is a terrible idea. if the whole desecrate/pilfer combo was a "bug" this whole time, why did it have to take a kubrow and a nightwave mission for DE to catch on to a gimmick that has been in the freaking game for like a year or 2? The many possible repercussions of this nerf would be, no one would use khora for loot building when you have nekros, no one will use hydroid at all (as if many people already dont use hydroid) when you have nekros, The reason why nekros would be the only used loot frame is that he doesn't require the drawback of needing to hold down an area and making enemies come into his 3, as his 3rd ability already covers most of the bloody map. There is really no point in using these loot augments for there frames when nekros exists. I dont see why the whole "bug" isnt just implemented as a feature in the game, hell they have done it before, i dont see why not doing it now. 

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Marvelous_A

Marvelous_A

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15 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

Loot abilities were a mistake

I agree coz they more or less put limitations on player choice of warframe when they're farming something. But I have to admit farming stuff in warframe could be really boring so I'm not looking forward to have them removed.

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yarl5000

yarl5000

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16 minutes ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

im sorry but i still think it doesnt make sense

They mentioned in the Dev stream after the update on PC that it was when they were looking at the Chesa interactions someone pointed out that hydroid, and khora do the same thing basically. So then they decided to remove the interaction since they were removing it for Chesa. Why they didn't stop to consider the impact before removing it is hard to say.

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(PSN)ChaosTheNerd

(PSN)ChaosTheNerd

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Just now, yarl5000 said:

They mentioned in the Dev stream after the update on PC that it was when they were looking at the Chesa interactions someone pointed out that hydroid, and khora do the same thing basically. So then they decided to remove the interaction since they were removing it for Chesa. Why they didn't stop to consider the impact before removing it is hard to say.

ah well than thats just irresponsible on de's side

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yarl5000

yarl5000

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Just now, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

ah well than thats just irresponsible on de's side

They mentioned they would be relooking at the interaction now and we might get something back in the future but it won't be the same.  They sounded surprised people wouldn't like that change on the dev stream.  I know people have come up with various ideas, one of them being that instead of just all be loot table reroll they could impact various different aspects.  AKA Nekros keeps the flat reroll but hyroid could focus on just duplicate and khora focus on rarity or something like that, and let them interact with each other in various ways.

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(PSN)ChaosTheNerd

(PSN)ChaosTheNerd

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1 minute ago, yarl5000 said:

They mentioned they would be relooking at the interaction now and we might get something back in the future but it won't be the same.  They sounded surprised people wouldn't like that change on the dev stream.  I know people have come up with various ideas, one of them being that instead of just all be loot table reroll they could impact various different aspects.  AKA Nekros keeps the flat reroll but hyroid could focus on just duplicate and khora focus on rarity or something like that, and let them interact with each other in various ways.

while i do hope they revisit it, it would take way too long for somethign to actually be done

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S.Dust

S.Dust

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57 minutes ago, (XB1)Cash201293 said:

I guess DE don’t like players farming for a hour and already has everything building in their foundry within a newly released update without buying anything. 

Cant say that when they added an augement for korra that makes her a loot frame. You don't add a bunch of loot based abilities and not respect the fact that people are gonna make full use of them.

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trst

trst

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Does it honestly make any difference in the grand scheme of things?

Besides Mutagen Samples for the Hema what practical applications did the full looting team accomplish?

The full team wasn't necessary for long Survival or Excavation runs and extra resource drops have diminishing value the longer anyone plays. Even something like Torroid farming wasn't that practical considering how fast Profit Taker runs can be, especially if ran during the Fracture bonus.

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(PSN)ChaosTheNerd

(PSN)ChaosTheNerd

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11 hours ago, trst said:

Does it honestly make any difference in the grand scheme of things?

Besides Mutagen Samples for the Hema what practical applications did the full looting team accomplish?

The full team wasn't necessary for long Survival or Excavation runs and extra resource drops have diminishing value the longer anyone plays. Even something like Torroid farming wasn't that practical considering how fast Profit Taker runs can be, especially if ran during the Fracture bonus.

The team was necessary for those who need to farm resources that they may no longer have, the loot crew has ALWAYS been beneficial to the game because it makes the grind more bearable

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(XBOX)GearsMatrix301

(XBOX)GearsMatrix301

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3 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Actually, this is true.. it often annoys me when loot frames are mandatory for certain things.. it kills player choice.. 

You know what else kills player choice? The frames and their different roles. What if I want to play DPS but also want to play a support frame? Well I guess that DE’s against player choice since they DARE to make frames cover different roles.

I hate the loot nerf as much as the next guy, but saying that loot abilities existence hurts the game is dumb.

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ScribbleClash

ScribbleClash

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This is such an essential change that seemingly was a sidenote in the patchnotes. 

IMO Nekros will now trump the other lootframes, therefor chipping away at that oh so fragile construct called playerchoice. (Seriously, no one is holding a gun to your head, forcing you to play certain warframes)

Loot drops didn't get lowered because of loot abilities, they were terrible in the first palce - and people got inventive because of that.
We now have less potential drops and no upside to it. 

And consistency in skills? Desecrate and Pilfering Swarm work differently to begin with. DE just threw them into a heap of their own design, calling it dead bodies - But the skills actually state otherwise themselves. Pilfering Swarm works on killing an enemy, therefor the enemy is in a transistional state from life to death. Desecrate only works on the dead. 
This is not the same, DE is just trying to justify the changes somehow.

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RX-3DR

RX-3DR

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37 minutes ago, ScribbleClash said:

IMO Nekros will now trump the other lootframes, therefor chipping away at that oh so fragile construct called playerchoice. (Seriously, no one is holding a gun to your head, forcing you to play certain warframes)

The problem is that people were forcing the rule of players running said frames. You didn't have people running Spy missions demanding other players run exclusively Loki, Ivara and Ash as opposed to many, "X Resource farm need Nekros, Hydroid and Khora". Yes, you aren't technically forced to do it, but your ability to find a group to run said mission is significantly hampered if you wanted to use something outside the list of "accepted farm frames".

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Pizzarugi

Pizzarugi

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On 2019-06-14 at 5:39 PM, Marvelous_A said:

I agree coz they more or less put limitations on player choice of warframe when they're farming something. But I have to admit farming stuff in warframe could be really boring so I'm not looking forward to have them removed.

*Cough*Hema*Cough*

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