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(PS4)FK2P

DE are confused about how they want the game to work, and DPS warframes that aren’t self buffers are taking the worst hit from this.

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To some extent, this reminds me of League of Legends, the MOBA: in that game, one of the core objectives for each team is to destroy the enemy team's structures, right down to their base. Trouble is, those structures are immune to all abilities, so most characters can't nuke them... but the characters with steroids can do so no problem, because they can pump themselves full of damage, effectively forcing a rigid metagame centered around these steroid-based, attack-based characters.

In this respect, DE should have known better than to address the game's balance and design issues via immunities on enemies: while the intent may have been different from that of League's designers, the end result is the same. The intent may have been to want to prevent nuke and CC frames from becoming too dominant, but when the balance work is done purely by changing enemies, and so via binary immunities, the obvious consequence is that frames whose power comes from buffing themselves end up unaffected.

Additionally, I also feel that the current course of balance should be a pretty plain demonstration of why refusing to accept any nerfs to frames is ultimately bad for those frames: don't want DE to touch your easymode Slash AoE Equinox? That's cool, hope you like enemy status immunity. Don't want your Cata+Stasis Limbo defense strat to suffer any direct nerfs? Sure thing, hope you're ready for Nullifiers and Rift-immune enemies to ignore or literally burst your bubble at a moment's notice. Enemy immunities are terrible for gameplay and consistency, and outright exclude many nuke and CC frames from a lot of high-level content, but at the end of the day, there needs to be some sort of counterbalance to frames that can kill or disable enemies without any real interaction: the current answer clearly doesn't work, as it's far too harsh, but something's gotta give, and if it's not the frames, it's going to have to be through annoying enemies.

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On 2019-06-15 at 9:23 AM, (PS4)FK2P said:

DPS roll warframes like banshee, ember, Mesa to SOME extent, saryn, equinox were great damage warframes back in the day, but now as more content requires more damage to be done against large non-mob threats, most of these frames don’t work at all, and what’s worse, most of these frames have no counter abilitys because when they were designed, damage was their strength, and their kit was designed as glass cannons

I mean mesa, saryn, and equinox can still reliably dps at higher levels with mesa and, to some extant, saryn being actually decent tanks.

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On 2019-06-16 at 9:59 AM, Atsia said:

DE has already explained how they CAN'T do this. Like all F2P, they live and die on the content they put out, which includes new warframes. They can't focus on fixes or they lose money and the forums devolve into another stream of content drought threads,so they do their best to manage doing both. Most of those big fixes and changes needed aren't things that are gonna come out quick, like Melee 3.0. They need to take their time with it.

 

Most of their money probably comes from general plat purchases for stuff like Rivens, etc., then Prime Access, then maybe Tennogen.

Like I said, work with someone big, spread yourself out.

How can you be quite certain where Platinum sales are, if the Cash Shop shows everything for Platinum by default?

It could be quite literally everything selling due to consumer confusion. (Too many options.)

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8 minutes ago, (NSW)MasterDarkwingz said:

Like I said, work with someone big, spread yourself out.

How can you be quite certain where Platinum sales are, if the Cash Shop shows everything for Platinum by default?

It could be quite literally everything selling due to consumer confusion. (Too many options.)

Aside from them wanting to keep everything in house, I don't know if they'll want to deal with the negotiations with having to keep creative control if they work with someone bigger than them ( except for maybe the Path if Exile guys, they seemed pretty cool with them). And my guess in plat sales are just an assumption based on the fact that Riven are the most expensive going item in our market. But otherwise I would put money on their biggest source of cash being Prime Access.

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11 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Aside from them wanting to keep everything in house, I don't know if they'll want to deal with the negotiations with having to keep creative control if they work with someone bigger than them ( except for maybe the Path if Exile guys, they seemed pretty cool with them). And my guess in plat sales are just an assumption based on the fact that Riven are the most expensive going item in our market. But otherwise I would put money on their biggest source of cash being Prime Access.

Riven prices may actually be a supply/demand kind of thing. They're trying to encourage a low purchase rate so that players actually play their game.

Finding the right company who will collaborate, rather than consume can be a difficult thing.

It's not impossible though, so long as you can honestly trust the guys behind it to not put in any tiny details under that contract.

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On 2019-06-15 at 7:34 PM, Xaxma said:

It's not necessarily that DPS frames can't DPS, but the fact that tank frames utterly, unquestionably dominate the meta. 

The lack of sensible defense options for squishy frames is what has allowed for tank frames to become a staple in every team, on top of the ridiculous enemy scaling that steamrolls players at a certain point if you don't have 90% dmg reduction, Adaptation, and like 400+ Armor. 

Maybe if we had shield gating or some mods that add evasion, we wouldn't feel so helpless when we play squishy frames. 

this is certainly something I agree with along with ops view that making things immune to abilities just locks us to self buffers.

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5 hours ago, (NSW)MasterDarkwingz said:

Riven prices may actually be a supply/demand kind of thing. They're trying to encourage a low purchase rate so that players actually play their game.

Finding the right company who will collaborate, rather than consume can be a difficult thing.

It's not impossible though, so long as you can honestly trust the guys behind it to not put in any tiny details under that contract.

I hate to say this, but that sadly sounds very naive. 

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Replace enemy ability immunity with ability damage / duration resistance and we're set.

In other words:

Certain boss enemies have 80-90% damage reduction from certain nuking powers. But the powers still work so if you don't wanna use your gun or melee, or simply enjoy Warframe (the game) for Warframe (the equipment)  abilities, you have the option to use abilities  to still deplete the enemy's health at some tolerable rate.

Same boss enemies can have 80-90% CC duration resistance so hitting them with a Bastille, or sleep arrow etc. will delay movement, but instead of the full duration of whatever you modded for, it is scaled down to a shorter amount, and in between CC procs, they have an immune duration which is indicated clearly but an aura around the unit to show they are briefly immune.

 

Will retain the challenge of a boss / mini-boss unit while also giving players options to control them a bit and have the fun of ability usage. 

 

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On 2019-06-16 at 12:44 PM, (PS4)FK2P said:

No your wrong. Embers accelerant only works VS mobs and it’s DISGRACEFULY weak. Banshee has no self buffs only CC which works against... you guessed it, mobs. I said MESA to some extent because disputes her buffs, she cannot use peacemakers where DPS really matters. You talk like you speak the truth when actually you have no idea what’s going on dude. These frames are supposed to be DPS frames, but it’s not fair how some DPS frames buff themesleves and can steamroll any content, and others are locked to only work against basic mobs. The point I am making is that if they want to make DPS, CC irrelevant, they need to decide wether to keep it or not and then make ALL abilities work in their intended roll throughout all content. Banshee needs to either paint targets on eidolons, or have a backup roll in this situation where people can take her into this content and have some use to a team. I don’t understand how trying to make DE make a final decision on ability rolls and how they want the game to function without just making the new stuff immune to entire frames kits is wrong? All I want is to be able to choose a roll and have it work. DE needs to set down its rules and apply them properly. It used to be that raids were more difficult, but ALL THE POWERS worked as intended. The squad had to think... will I take a nyx and risk not being the closest in range of Vay Hek, or will I take nova and slow him to reduce his aiming speed? Will I take trinity for energy? Will I take valkyr for revives? Will I take Loki to disarm all of the small mobs? Will I take vauban for one particular part of the raid where people have to not be knocked off of buttons and we need hard CC with good coverage, but he might not be as useful at the final stage of the raid... That’s when warframe was good IN MY OPINION. Choosing roles that functioned and planning a strategy. The raids need to be effected by abilities but they need to up the difficulty so we are forced to choose roles and use our entire kits to be successful.

ember accelerant boosts heat damage from any source, banshee has sonar that multiply damage from any hit by 500% at base strength so how is that no self buff to you?

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15 hours ago, 844448 said:

ember accelerant boosts heat damage from any source, banshee has sonar that multiply damage from any hit by 500% at base strength so how is that no self buff to you?

BECAUSE - IT - ONLY - WORKS - ON - MOBS. The new content the game is pushing out, the tusk thumpers, eidolons, exploiter orb, demolysts, ropalolist, all of it  is ONLY EFFECTED BY SELF DIRECTED BUFFS, debuff abilities are locked into the older content, and therefore warframes like this where debuffing is their strength are irrelevant. Please try and understand my point, what I want from DE is clear ability synergy with the game, where all warframes have something in their kit that they can use against the relevant content, banshee’s playstyle is “extreme damage at the cost of extreme barebones gameplay, panic CC and enemy awareness debuffs mean an understanding of the game will help you remain silent and out of line of sight whilst inflicting high damage. In 2019 this is more like “cannot target most larger enemies with damage debuff, still extremely squishy, panic CC and awareness debuff only works VS mobs and does not target larger enemies so there’s no point taking her.” As a DPS warframe she’s totally out of the new game.

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