With all the new mods and sets need more slots 2019

[Guest]

Power Creep is a necessary evil, actually - new content must be better than old content, or people will simply ignore it. There is no purpose to new content if it doesn't upstage the old one. So called Sidegrades are actually very bad because no one wants them, so either DE goes with powercreep (aka Non Prime to Prime) or gimmicky crap.

More mod slots is kind of an iffy thing.

[MaryoSlayer]

It's not about power creep,it's about the fun mods like,double jump power! speed buff after 3 headshots or idk,they should make 2 mod slots in which only mods like these can be used,otherwise they are trying in vain to make us change our "playstyle" with these mods they've been releasing.

[kuryux]

We sure need more slots, I mean, more riven slots ofc!

[RivalsHunter008]

In my opinion, having one mod slot reserved for an augment slot may be a good one. Otherwise, I'm not too bothered about it and yes I am a power creeeeep😂😂😂😂

[SordidDreams]

10 hours ago, Birkenhoff said:

Have you ever played another frame but Saryn, Mesa or Equinox in a round based mission? It's awesome because you're sitting there asking yourself: the fk am I doing here? while the one guy in your 4 man squad with a playtime of 30 hours is the only one having a good time with his Saryn.

I mean, yeah, endless missions have to be boring because WF is a free-to-play, pay-to-skip game that turns a profit by annoying you into paying to not have to play it. Such is the nature of the beast. And yeah, frames get boring if you play them too much. Any character or weapon in any game will get boring if you play them too much, it's just most games aren't open-ended like WF, so usually the game ends before the boredom sets in. That's why DE has to keep adding new frames and guns into WF, to keep it fresh, and that's why they have to be better than old stuff, because otherwise people would stick with the old stuff and get bored. So yes, power creep is good.

Edited June 17, 2019 by SordidDreams

[0_The_F00l]

But there is no mod capacity, what do you want me to do? Not use umbra mods? As if. 

[RX-3DR]

Rather than fiddling with slots or removing mods, a better long term way to actually make people consider the less braindead mods would be to rework them so that there's actually a comparable value between them. If you had to pick between 30% damage, 40% Magazine Size and 40% Reload, you would see people pick the latter two much more often than if it were 120% damage.

But of course, people don't want this because they want to have their 300% Power Strength builds with everything else.

Edited June 17, 2019 by RX-3DR

[Rhalick0]

I think a new slot is good to fit in the new aero mods

[Vox_Preliator]

10 hours ago, Gruiz said:

What about slot exclusively for movement or mods that doesn't change any of the mandatory stat (strength, duration, hp)

They tried that.

Then the Drift mods happened.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 15 heures, SneakyErvin a dit :

Besides no? Nej, ikke, niet, never, aldrig, inte, nope, na, nähä, nein, nie and kungekho.

I'm curious how many of those you knew yourself and how many you pulled from translate xD

 

On topic, while i would love to get more slots, because it would make some crazy ass builds possible, it would also break the game so hard it would turn into whackamole simulator farlster than you can say geronimo. Niw, if we had content at appropriate level for our power that would maybe work but we're currently fighting enemies so far below our power level already i wouldn't upset the situation even further tbh. 

[Birkenhoff]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb SordidDreams:

I mean, yeah, endless missions have to be boring because WF is a free-to-play, pay-to-skip game that turns a profit by annoying you into not having to play it. Such is the nature of the beast. And yeah, frames get boring if you play them too much. Any character or weapon in any game will get boring if you play them too much, it's just most games aren't open-ended like WF, so usually the game ends before the boredom sets in. That's why DE has to keep adding new frames and guns into WF, to keep it fresh, and that's why they have to be better than old stuff, because otherwise people would stick with the old stuff and get bored. So yes, power creep is good.

New frames aren't better than old stuff. You have your meta niche frames/builds like Harrow, Chroma or Trin and you have go-to frames like Mesa and Saryn for the rest of the game.

Just play a few games in PUGs. How many Baruuks, Garudas, Hildryns, Revenants, Khoras or Excalumbras do you see? Those frame became MR fodder for most of the people. 

I recently wrote about how I would like to play Baruuk or Hildryn because I simply like the gameplay of those frames. But I can't because playing them in a group is simply boring. Or have a look at some Wisp feedback threads. People complain about the 4 beeing too weak. Ofcause it is too weak because people want to have a 360° AOE with a 50m range that kills everything instantly (like Saryn or Equinox). Every new frame is called a s**t frame because every frame that has been released in the near past is missing a erase-all-enemy-button. Hell, people don't even play Nova - a real weapon of mass destrucion - because the kill spead is 'too slow' compared to a 360-spinning Mesa.

In general gameplay you see frames from 2013-2015 as players first choices. So this is why power creep is good? 

EDIT: Power creep is not getting stronger with every new released frame. It's not a process in this game, it's simply given. You can't kill faster than instant and that's what you're already doing right now. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Birkenhoff

[(XBOX)D3L7A Z7R1K3]

Not happening lol. Sacrifices need to be made and like the others said in this thread we would basically overhaul warframe from the ground up. Maybe in warframe 2 though lol

[Tinklzs]

5 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

Power Creep is a necessary evil, actually - new content must be better than old content, or people will simply ignore it. There is no purpose to new content if it doesn't upstage the old one. So called Sidegrades are actually very bad because no one wants them, so either DE goes with powercreep (aka Non Prime to Prime) or gimmicky crap.

More mod slots is kind of an iffy thing.

Side grades add more versatility and playstyles, like augments for example. There are some augments that are straight upgrades (like nidus' Insatiable or Teeming Virulence) and others that are side-grades like Frosts' Chilling Globe or Ember's Firequake.  That allow them to fill another role or do something else better than they could before.

The idea that new content must be better than old, because of how you mentioned everything else, you're stating it from a point of view that "If this weapon from a year ago deals 10k base damage, this one 6 months from now should deal 15k base damage".   Then turn around and say "more mods slots is an iffy thing" what happened to doubling down on that powercreep you oh so love?

There is balance in everything, too much and you tip the scales one way or another and something ends up breaking. Instead of having something be broken for months before being fixed (if ever) why not take a short moment, check everything in an update, and make sure nothing like that happens? Fairly simple concept that quite a few developers already know by now. 

 

Mods

Those asking for mod slots (as the game is right now), don't understand what the purpose of these mods (set mods, augments, movement, stat increasing mods) are for.  So adding a slot dedicated for a type of mod, defeats the purpose entirely.  Adding mod slots, because these mods aren't worth putting in the original "ten" means those mods need to be buffed to be on par with those that are used frequently. Not adding new slots because 'oh, this are bad". Which is why we need a mod re-work to buff these other mods that aren't used. Not many use specific mods, like set mods (sacrificing stat increasing mods) because that set requires a gimmick to get the benefit, and while you're trying to get that gimmick rolling, someone else has already killed the map with 1-2 button presses.   

Which is why we need a mod re-work and the developers creating set mods to.. make better sets.  Many mods simply aren't used because stat increasing mods are simply better overall for performance in missions. There are some playstyles that work with set mods better than others, but that still doesn't excuse the stat that many mods are in.  With a mod re-work we get rid of those 'needed' mods on weapons, like serration, barrel diffusion etc. scale enemies correctly - otherwise even more powercreep. 

Enemy scaling (where you get to a point and get one shot) is the consequence of bad powercreep. Giving power to players in a way that seems forced, with it being relied on numbers rather than intellect or skill, ends up requiring enemies to be buffed too - and that typically means in ways that aren't fun (nullifiers) or challenging (invincibility, immunity to abilities). Which is why in games like Diablo 3 if you don't play a specific way you will die immediately at high content, while you wail on them. You can see this with many warframes not scaling with the content, falling off drastically in some cases, while others scale into the 1000's like saryn, ash etc. 

With a rework of enemy scaling, we can then add combo's to warframes. I'd adore to see each warframe have at least one signature ability that can be combo'd with another frame. So Zephyr's tornadoes with ember's world on fire, now zephyr's tornadoes are x2-x4 times the size, as a rough example or Banshee + octavia which would encourage teamwork.

 

I know everything isn't perfect and takes time, but powercreep isn't an excuse nor acceptable. You can have new content without making old content useless, and make players feel progression and empowerment without making enemies stupidly easy and then ridiculously powerful within a handful of levels.  I'm not asking for the kind of balance that can be broken by a feather or a stiff breeze; I"m asking for a semblance of balance that most games have anyways, which Warframe greatly lacks. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Tinklzs

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Autongnosis said:

I'm curious how many of those you knew yourself and how many you pulled from translate xD

Knew all of them, although I had to look up the spelling of the last one. Had an african classmate back in the day that liked to use that word when he got asked about if he done the homework, essay and so on when he had forgotten. Often just followed by the teachers either looking O.o at him or just going "good good" cos they had no clue what he was saying. Rest of the words are mostly scandinavian, or specifically swedish along with russian, polish and german. I even think niet passes for a dutch word aswell or that the russian word is spelled net.

In soviet russia, word spells you! 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

Side grades add more versatility and playstyles, like augments for example. There are some augments that are straight upgrades (like nidus' Insatiable or Teeming Virulence) and others that are side-grades like Frosts' Chilling Globe or Ember's Firequake.  That allow them to fill another role or do something else better than they could before.

Any augment that "adds a function" is a straight upgrade. If you mentioned say, Partitioned Mallet or Resonating Quake, maybe it would have been a more valid example. Making X ability do X function better is exactly what a straight upgrade is.

12 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

The idea that new content must be better than old, because of how you mentioned everything else, you're stating it from a point of view that "If this weapon from a year ago deals 10k base damage, this one 6 months from now should deal 15k base damage".  

It isn't much of a choice, really, Why should I use gun A with 0 forma and is new if it is going to do the exact same thing as gun B with 8 forma in it and a Riven to boot? They might as well reskin the original gun if a new weapon is a true sidegrade (aka similar overall stats and functions).

Power creep is therefore necessary, even if marginal - you need to dangle the carrot for a vast majority to bite.

14 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

Then turn around and say "more mods slots is an iffy thing" what happened to doubling down on that powercreep you oh so love?

You don't need more mod slots for Primed Streamline, Primed Intensify or Primed Stretch to exist.

More mod slots would necessitate DE rebalance mods. Which is not something anyone wants, really.

15 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

There is balance in everything, too much and you tip the scales one way or another and something ends up breaking. Instead of having something be broken for months before being fixed (if ever) why not take a short moment, check everything in an update, and make sure nothing like that happens? Fairly simple concept that quite a few developers already know by now. 

Yet DE doesn't, actually. 

Look at the spate of nerfs. They either completely bungle something or nerf a feature under the guise of bug fixing (like the Hydroid and Nek loot thing).

[Nighteyezzz]

Moderate power creep is good, it gives you a nice sense of progression and a want to grind. This is a power fantasy horde shooter not a tactical twitch based game. We just need content that's rewarding to go along with it

[spirit_of_76]

19 hours ago, mcdoo said:

Title says it all. We asked for this before but now with all the new mods and sets its about time to rework the mod setups.

I say 1 extra polarity slot and another aura/set mod slot. 

What say you besides..No. 🙂

the problem is we don't need more room we need less mandatory mods.  what needs to be done it the removal of MS and damage mods with those stats rolled into the the weapon's leveling proces, elemental mods caped at 3, and more conditional mods like the newest sets.  
war frames could use a return to ability mods but they can only be replaced by the augment mod and augments would have increased drain depending on power.  other than that it is all good until the game's scaling is reworked so that it is not a broken mess.  

[Zelmen]

All I want is a new slot to put those funny mods from ESO in. 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Peculiar_Bloom

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Peculiar_Growth

Edited June 17, 2019 by Zelmen

[Tinklzs]

1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

Any augment that "adds a function" is a straight upgrade. If you mentioned say, Partitioned Mallet or Resonating Quake, maybe it would have been a more valid example. Making X ability do X function better is exactly what a straight upgrade is.

It isn't much of a choice, really, Why should I use gun A with 0 forma and is new if it is going to do the exact same thing as gun B with 8 forma in it and a Riven to boot? They might as well reskin the original gun if a new weapon is a true sidegrade (aka similar overall stats and functions).

Power creep is therefore necessary, even if marginal - you need to dangle the carrot for a vast majority to bite.

You don't need more mod slots for Primed Streamline, Primed Intensify or Primed Stretch to exist.

More mod slots would necessitate DE rebalance mods. Which is not something anyone wants, really.

Yet DE doesn't, actually. 

Look at the spate of nerfs. They either completely bungle something or nerf a feature under the guise of bug fixing (like the Hydroid and Nek loot thing).

I'd say mallet is an upgrade, and quake is a side-grade (that should be built into the original ability).  I mentioned those two because it gives them a utility that otherwise didn't exist before, globe freezing enemies (a CC) and ember knocking enemies down with WoF (another CC, allowing her to possibly live longer in higher level missions, but more of a bandaid than anything).  But you gave examples, proving my overall point - that side-grades aren't a bad thing.

 

Looks are about all I can think of for weapons that fit a similar use, unless they have a niche (like komorex being a GL with a scope). While it isn't much, it might be all that someone needs to make it their favorite weapon.   There are different forms of powercreep, as I've mentioned throughout this discussion and others on this forum. Monitored powercreep is fine, as long as it serves a purpose that doesn't directly undermine something else. Adding a weapon that is similar to another, but is still competitive with something unique about it (komorex) even if not turned to and used by the masses, is still a better weapon than one that is a straight upgrade from another weapon in the same category. 

Primed mods, like primed weapons are just another way for DE to make money in some form (whether you buy the plat to trade or not, someone does - thus more money for DE), which is the 'necessary evil' in this line of game development. However, even if that is the case, doesn't excuse blatant foolish powercreep in the form of making one warframe or weapon doing something straight-up better than another, without giving one or the other a niche to stand out in their own way to contribute and be useful in gameplay.

I wouldn't mind more mod slots truth be told, however it's because I want to mess with different builds and make fun ones that are competitive, not just get raw power/range and call it a day, which is what would happen if we got more slots now. Which is why I vote for many mods to be looked at and buffed/reworked to be more useful and appealing, rather than 'eh just find a spot to fit this mod on that isn't good enough for one of the original 8'.  Instead make that mod a worthy competitor, THEN think about adding new slots. That's the smart powercreep way, otherwise just adding mod slots will breed another plateau of powercreep, without having many mods to fill that void (meaning instead of build flexibility because of many useful mods) we'd just get what we have now, with more strength/range/efficiency/duration - and that isn't design, that's being lazy.

 

And I know DE doesn't know that, which is why with all the issues Plains of Eidolon had, many were repeated again in Fortuna. Not to mention weapons, frame abilities, etc etc. i'd also point out ember nerf and chroma 'fix'/nerf in that lineup.   

 

Just a real shame that players end up saying they like and approve of power creep, then turn around and say they hate the scaling of enemies, which is a direct result of the powercreep we have. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Tinklzs

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

19 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Yes I'd like power creep, thx.

Me too 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

Just a real shame that players end up saying they like and approve of power creep, then turn around and say they hate the scaling of enemies, which is a direct result of the powercreep we have. 

Actually the enemies don't really scale - they just ignore old mechanics and are defeated by the new.

Pretty much turns the so called power creep into Meta Shift.

[Tinklzs]

53 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Actually the enemies don't really scale - they just ignore old mechanics and are defeated by the new.

Pretty much turns the so called power creep into Meta Shift.

 

Enemy armor scaling and ignoring mechanics (invincibility, huge health/damage reduction like the new guys in disruption) are a direct result from our power, and the power creep that our power has with it.

Meta Shift is what we had about 14-16 months ago, where it shifted from CC to Clear to map (especially after Saryn rework).   Nothing Meta about having to wait for an invincibility phase or having to bring a 'required' weapon (that fits on a "must deal this amount of damage to kill enemy in timeframe). That's just bad band-aid work because of poor design and lack of forethought, which is what this powercreep feels like. 

There is good powercreep, Warframe doesn't have it. It has the bad kind that you get with lack of foresight and lack of cleaning up ones work after the fact. Because of how powerful we are, we need enemies that can give a challenge, easiest way to do that is bulletsponge enemies or enemies that deal high damage (we have both). However, not all warframes can handle this or are suited for it - so this creates complaints from players that they can't use their favorite frames in higher level content or that they keep getting one shot from enemies due to their high damage, or that they cannot kill them because too much armor/health asking for nerfs. It's an endless circle of despair.

Bypass all of it by not making that mistake in the first place or learn from it and change things accordingly.

Make enemies hard by how they work to counter specific frames, organize frames into class types based on what they do, then send out an enemy that counters (but doesn't nullify) that type of warframe. So you have an enemy that spawned in WoW that prevents healing, your team has to kill it, same thing applies here. Promotes teamwork and helps bring nukeframes down a notch all without outright nerfing anything (like ember) and getting players upset. Instead, it shifts the focus of gameplay a bit, without changing the core concept of Warframe.  Warframe has shifted from it's original trailers (and this idea they've kept in their advertising) that you need teammmates or working together. In most instances, you don't. You can solo everything in warframe including stuff that was designed with teammates in mind (defection, interception, survival). 

So by redesigning enemy AI to be smarter and introducing new enemies that aren't super annoying and lazy to fight (nullifiers) that help promote teamwork and coordination, you can kill three birds with one stone.  Helping to fix the lack of teamwork needed and enemy scaling and enemy challenge, among other things, without completely changing the game and making it unrecognizable. 

 

[SordidDreams]

6 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

They tried that.

Then the Drift mods happened.

So try it again and don't f*ck it up this time?

Also, Handspring > any drift mod.

Edited June 17, 2019 by SordidDreams

[VanFanel1980mx]

I would like all augment mods to be exilus, they are still usable in any other slot but sometimes I think using just one augment is easier if we move it to said slots, other than that make all amp auras the same as Steel charge (that is, give +9 mod capacity)

[VanFanel1980mx]

23 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

Enemies have those immune abilities because we're so powerful.

I thought this game was about being super powerful, if I wanted to play a game where everything feels unfair I would be playing Overwatch, I am really sick of whoever at DE wanted to turn Warframe into "le dork soulz of shooterz", is either that or the development team is full of real sadists.