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Mistakes Revealed By Datamining, Or Lack Of Communication, The Problem Behind The Problem.


TemetNosce
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DE has responded rapidly, and repeatedly admitted to mistakes in the drop table. Both in regards to the 1% and lower part drop rates, and the forma drop rates. However, they did not do so until today, shortly after the datamined information came out of Reddit.

 

The problem that this highlights to me is not the drop rates themselves, if DE merely #*($%%@ up there, and are fixing it then enough is said on that topic. No the problem I'm seeing here is that this wasn't caught until now, despite a ludicrous amount of anecdotal evidence, it took datamining to point it out. Once again, we're being given a lesson in how the lack of communication and information available to the community has costs. Had DE released the drop tables from the start, or even discussed intended changes with us beforehand, this situation would've been prevented in the first place.

 

This thread has a very simple point, I'm requesting that DE take this as a larger lesson about the infeasibility of their current attitude towards information control. The community needs to know what's going on, both to provide feedback, and so that we can see there's a clear destination we're headed towards.

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This thread has a very simple point, I'm requesting that DE take this as a larger lesson about the infeasibility of their current attitude towards information control. The community needs to know what's going on, both to provide feedback, and so that we can see there's a clear destination we're headed towards.

This is a huge point and you're right. We leave you in the dark and expect you to give us feedback about things you have no idea about.

 

You need to be in the loop as much as we are to make this game better. This is something we need to work on.

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This is a huge point and you're right. We leave you in the dark and expect you to give us feedback about things you have no idea about.

 

You need to be in the loop as much as we are to make this game better. This is something we need to work on.

I understand this is the general PR way of taking things seriously and trying to divert attention or put out the fires, but a few lines of "We totally agree" won't make the issue go away. It has been repeated now a few times, and we are getting increasingly tired of this charade. Go full "closed-development" and don't do anything differently. It's going to feel the same either way.

 

The promises were many, almost none were held. I won't mind being banned either if it comes to that. Go ahead, you'll lose another player.

 

Edit: Addendum: Orwellian tactics won't work either, i'm saving my posts, related posts and whatever else material. I did the same with BioWare.

Edited by Sakatox
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I must confess.. I'm having a blast with this S#&$storm.. most fun I've had in Warframe for weeks.. kinda sad really.

 

BTW I assume that ingame tooltips would be made independently fom drop rates, so even if the tooltip is there the actual drop rate can still be screwed and we're back to the base problem.

 

So don't get #*($%%@ over by the ingame feedback BS, it won't solve anything.

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I must confess.. I'm having a blast with this S#&$storm.. most fun I've had in Warframe for weeks.. kinda sad really.

 

BTW I assume that ingame tooltips would be made independently fom drop rates, so even if the tooltip is there the actual drop rate can still be screwed and we're back to the base problem.

 

So don't get #*($%%@ over by the ingame feedback BS, it won't solve anything.

There's a proper way, a BioWare way, a CDProjektRED way AND the DE WAY.

 

DE will probably separate the two, as *competent developers*. EDIT: <----- *SARCASM*

Othes would yank the values directly from the table - maybe DE would have done much sooner or before if they weren't so abysmal.

Edited by Sakatox
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This is a huge point and you're right. We leave you in the dark and expect you to give us feedback about things you have no idea about.

 

You need to be in the loop as much as we are to make this game better. This is something we need to work on.

With all due respect, saying it is one thing, acting on it is another. This is not the first time it happens,  it's much easier to lose trust from your fan base then it is to gain it, DE. The more DE keeps us out of the loop, the more trust we lose in DE. I try to do my part as a beta tester by participating on these forums to improve this game, I wished DE did their part of using our feedback and keeping us informed on what direction the game is taking. Instead we get vague descriptions and have to discover changes by ourselves. This is making the feedback process slow and inefficient, in the end, you're only hurting yourselves with this DE.

 

Saying "This is something we need to work on." just doesn't cut it any more, sorry. I've seen this phrase several times yet we still need to see actions being taken on the part of DE. Just coming in the forums waving hope at us might buy DE some time, but the more they push this matter away, the more players will be pushed away.

 

Just my 2c.

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With all due respect, saying it is one thing, acting on it is another. This is not the first time it happens,  it's much easier to lose trust from your fan base then it is to gain it, DE. The more DE keeps us out of the loop, the more trust we lose in DE. I try to do my part as a beta tester by participating on these forums to improve this game, I wished DE did their part of using our feedback and keeping us informed on what direction the game is taking. Instead we get vague descriptions and have to discover changes by ourselves. This is making the feedback process slow and inefficient, in the end, you're only hurting yourselves with this DE.

 

Saying "This is something we need to work on." just doesn't cut it any more, sorry. I've seen this phrase several times yet we still need to see actions being taken on the part of DE. Just coming in the forums waving hope at us might buy DE some time, but the more they push this matter away, the more players will be pushed away.

 

Just my 2c.

 

Indeed it's the EXACT SAME THING that happened before with the Void and Latron etc. Fool me once... and all that. DE obviously didn't learn anything... or it's intentional.. I don't care either way, it's a clusterfuck and this time DE deserves the S#&amp;&#036; pilled on them. You could be apologetic the first time, but the time for that is over. 

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Cedric stepped down as a mod because he's losing hope (and trust?) in DE too. I've seen the datamined files and, oh my god. Dakra Prime blade has 1.05% drop rate? Boar Prime receiver droprate 0.67%? ._.

 

Though not only these. There are also a bunch of issues which have stuck for a very long time, core mechanics/features issues... 

 

I think that we need to know % on drop rates, otherwise i think you are trolling me, and forcing me to pay money.

 

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1mrr5j/1007_datamined_reward_tables/

Edited by R3leaZ
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I understand this is the general PR way of taking things seriously and trying to divert attention or put out the fires, but a few lines of "We totally agree" won't make the issue go away. It has been repeated now a few times, and we are getting increasingly tired of this charade. Go full "closed-development" and don't do anything differently. It's going to feel the same either way.

 

The promises were many, almost none were held. I won't mind being banned either if it comes to that. Go ahead, you'll lose another player.

 

Edit: Addendum: Orwellian tactics won't work either, i'm saving my posts, related posts and whatever else material. I did the same with BioWare.

 

Actions do speak louder than words, and I think I understand your frustration here; but your attitude and tone here is not helpful or constructive.  You've made it apparent from this post that you have things to say that are worth listening to. However, if you can't put away your subjective feelings of frustration long enough to not be passive-aggressive, and almost outright belligerent, then you care more about your own feelings than you do about really seeing a change here.

 

If you're going to play the "you said you'd change and didn't" card, it is completely counter-productive to respond with vitriol.  When you sling mud, you lose a lot of ground.

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Actions do speak louder than words, and I think I understand your frustration here; but your attitude and tone here is not helpful or constructive.  You've made it apparent from this post that you have things to say that are worth listening to. However, if you can't put away your subjective feelings of frustration long enough to not be passive-aggressive, and almost outright belligerent, then you care more about your own feelings than you do about really seeing a change here.

 

If you're going to play the "you said you'd change and didn't" card, it is completely counter-productive to respond with vitriol.  When you sling mud, you lose a lot of ground.

And what would i gain from the diplomatic approach with this? Another DE_Megan post or other authorized person claiming the same thing she does occasionaly now or later. That does not work, didn't work before and not going to work anytime soon.

 

I am not slinging mud, nor guano, i am slinging cold, hard facts. If it hurts DE, and DE cares, then they'll respond, change and do what all normal, competent and able developers would. If not, i'm getting warned and i'll be out of this game sooner than someone can say we were right.

They need the players to keep this whole business afloat, and they are being counter-productive with their abysmal droprates and horrible PR.

Edited by Sakatox
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they need a new drop system like the have on the alerts, eg more u play what does't drop has a higher chance the next round eg

 

Frist run .5% second run 1% 3rd 1.5% 4th 2%(this is still better then 1%) and so on till its drops then the pattern starts again. if your really bad at luck then it could take a max of 200 runs to get 100% chance but more liking 60 runs at 30% if u really want something 60 runs is still a ton for 1 part

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I think because this is a beta they think they can use us exclusively to find there mistakes without first testing in-house before giving it to us. Like Sheldon mentioned in the livestream that he thought the drop rates were out of wack after he himself played. Now if they had done that before releasing things they would have known ahead of time how bad it was. It's the simple carpenter matra "measure twice cut once"

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Cedric stepped down as a mod because he's losing hope (and trust?) in DE too. I've seen the datamined files and, oh my god. Dakra Prime blade has 1.05% drop rate? Boar Prime receiver droprate 0.67%? ._.

 

Though not only these. There are also a bunch of issues which have stuck for a very long time, core mechanics/features issues... 

 

 

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1mrr5j/1007_datamined_reward_tables/

 

How noble from Cederic.

 

You mean this 

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkWdk3MehcxEdDVfb3MxUUczZDJhcndVamVjdXlWY2c#gid=6

 

How much hours i need to play to get this new set, it only look's awesome it's not even that good and there's plenty stuff that are better.

I don't care how awesome i look i care how awesome i can kick &amp;#&#33;.

 

So what we can expect in future, when we are trolled now.

Edited by histori
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I think because this is a beta they think they can use us exclusively to find there mistakes without first testing in-house before giving it to us. Like Sheldon mentioned in the livestream that he thought the drop rates were out of wack after he himself played. Now if they had done that before releasing things they would have known ahead of time how bad it was. It's the simple carpenter matra "measure twice cut once"

Do you know why it's still called a beta? so they can mess up occasionally and backtrack onto this exact claim.

"It's a beta guys!" To be perfectly honest here, november is PS4 release date and that's not a BETA PRODUCT release date. They've been too long in beta and it shouldn't be like this.

 

That's how software development works in the current industry/field/envrionment.

We are beta testing they are not changing it. That's the gist of it, nothing that could be denied.

 

The problem is the NOT CHANGING STUFF part. Development isn't about "Oh you guys are absolutely right, we SHOULD change things."

It's about "This doesn't work, who commited this POC into the repo? You? Fix that."

Edited by Sakatox
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And what would i gain from the diplomatic approach with this?

 

You prove the point right here.  What are you gaining from your current approach?  Because honestly, I agree with a lot of the things you're saying, but I don't see it being constructive to openly agree with you concerning DE because your words betray resentment and vitriol, not critique   I think checking that attitude would lend a lot more credibility to your words.

 

You might be speaking the facts, and that is good, but it isn't worth a hill of beans if you alienate your target audience by how you communicate it.

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You prove the point right here.  What are you gaining from your current approach?  Because honestly, I agree with a lot of the things you're saying, but I don't see it being constructive to openly agree with you concerning DE because your words betray resentment and vitriol, not critique   I think checking that attitude would lend a lot more credibility to your words.

 

You might be speaking the facts, and that is good, but it isn't worth a hill of beans if you alienate your target audience by how you communicate it.

Your entire point was invalidated by your foundation. You don't achieve change with asking nicely when money is at stake.

You either go full force and talk your way through, or achieve nothing and let things go like they are now.

 

You do not understand, i however see that my points are entirely beyond you.

 

"Attitude". Without it, we'd still be having pre-datamined void drops.

I do not care about your percieved "my target audience". DE hears it, if it falls on deaf ears then we should just leave. If not, then maybe change is going to happen.

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Yeah, after running T1 and T2 survivals nearly 100 times and only coming up with Mag prime Helmets, Latron Prime stocks and a handful of chassis, I gave up until someone managed to datamine the loot tables.  After seeing the loot tables, I'm glad I took a break to play Saints Row 4. 

 

I'll play again once they fix this problem, but until then I'm gonna play some GTA V.

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You do not understand, i however see that my points are entirely beyond you.

 

"Attitude". Without it, we'd still be having pre-datamined void drops.

 

So let me get this straight:

 

-I'm stupid, and can't possibly understand your points.

-You can be as pissy and jerky as you want without consequence. 

-You are trying to criticize DE, but won't take any criticism yourself.

-Diplomacy is useless, force your point.

 

You're a grown person, you can do as you like, but your last reply to me is more or less a childish attitude masked with fancy language.  Please consider changing the way you approach communicating your thoughts and feelings about this issue.

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