Wukong Revisit

[Oreades]

Sooooo everything I would have wanted out of Equinoxes Duality and will likely never see integrated into Equinox in a meaningful fashion now that it's been given to Wukong. 

[DeMonkey]

26 minutes ago, Donkey_Centaur said:

Hoping to compile a little info on our celestial clone. Here's what I have so far:

• +DMG isn't increased by power strength mods.
• Doesn't seem to understand the concept of a gunblade.
• Turns the vectis prime into a machine gun, but doesn't scale all too great without headshots.
• Doesn't use max zoom on snipers, the komorex was a little disappointing.
• No self damage on weapons, had no problem using a beefy zarr.
• Looks a little lost at times if enemies are far away, so you will need to manually target them with your 1.
• Little clumsy with bows, seems to hold the charge for too long and so is very slow to fire.
• Weapon swapping is a little buggy, had to remove my primary in order for it to use my secondary (btw my twin grakatas ripped.)
• Opticor vandal gets a huge thumbs up from me.
• Heals itself with furis augment, but not you.
• DO give it the zakti/cyanex to set you up for condition overload.
• Phenomenal with the castanas/talons.
• Ignores recoil, was great with the pyrana, grakata.
• Didn't seem to use charged shots with the ballistica prime, so little chance of having a ghost army.

I'm going to try and get this moved back, preferably to Players helping Players rather than GD.

An exploration of the mechanics of an ability isn't feedback, and I'd like your thread to be seen for what it is, both interesting and helpful.

 

[Nez-Kal]

On 2019-06-19 at 4:43 PM, operational said:

Launch Atlas Prime and then skip to Nezha, nobody likes it, nobody plays it.

I guess my Favorite/Most-Played Frame makes me "Nobody" now. =w="

Edited June 22, 2019 by Tangent-Valley

[Donkey_Centaur]

9 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I'm going to try and get this moved back, preferably to Players helping Players rather than GD.

An exploration of the mechanics of an ability isn't feedback, and I'd like your thread to be seen for what it is, both interesting and helpful.

 

Thanks I was a little lost when I got back to it.

[MrTitan123]

@DeMonkey

I love the rework, but it's missing a tiny little bit of icing on the cake. How would you feel about the Wuclone taking mods from your weapons while it's active? Much like a certain other frame who shall not be mentioned for spoiler reasons, Mods carrying over to a clone with enough brain to watch your back could provide some decent combat strategy alternatives, and a few gateways to fun builds.

[SneakyErvin]

As far as I've tested, cleave stacking with his clone + primal fury is just ape crazy.

What I've done is use the following mod setup on his staff. Primed Pressure, Primed Fury, Primed Reach, Condition Overload, True Steel, Virulent Scourge, Voltaic Strike and Healing Return along with 170% ability strength i.e power drift plus umbral int and a stat stick with gladiator mods. I've tested it in Sim versus mixed groups of CHGs and CBombs of level 140 and the outcome has been brilliant. He just mows them down in seconds at very respectable range. I really like the clone because he sticks close enough to you that your staff with Primed Reach will make you hit what he is hitting as he is hitting what you are hitting most of the time. The added slash damage is also a nice bonus that is quite noticable versus heavy units.

Defy I still havent fully tested. It is a nice buff that gives up to 1500 armor and a fairly decent "oh skritt I'm hit" button. So far my build lets me keep the buff for 48 seconds or something, so I pretty much dont use it more often than that. The melee part of it I rather avoid because it has the horrible forced knockback ragdolling.

Cloudwalker is nice. Quick and easy way to keep up your Wuknaros clone if he ever needs it. It also serves as a good utility skill and another get out of crap free card. It maybe be a bit too fast for my liking and it seems completely bugged if you wanna attack and break it early.

For now I will likely stick with the massive cleave build. Might reduce my duration, but I like having a 45+ second long buff. Ability strength at 170% seems enough so far since the damage is there and the clone sits at 4.5k HP.

What I would like to know is how many of our mods are used by the clone, if he can utilize adaptation when getting hit and so on. When it comes to damage it seems like he is indeed benefitting from all the mods along with his own damage multiplier. He is indeed a scary little monkey pal.

 

 

[White-Chocolate]

Wukong feels so much more viable, fun, and dynamic to play now. I don't feel like any one of his abilities should be ignored now either. Too bad people are complaining about him "not being good or viable anymore" which btw, is completely untrue. I heard someone compain about him not being the best at anything too lol, the rework wasn't meant for him to become the single best at a certain skill, it was meant to make him a more fun warframe to use while increasing his viability. I would avoid regional chat for the time being, there are a bunch of butthurt players complaining rn. Anyways, what do you guys think so far?

[krc473]

8 minutes ago, White-Chocolate said:

Anyways, what do you guys think so far?

That your post is more of a meta-complaint (not allowed) than feedback. You should remove all the complaining about others and explain what you like.

[DrBorris]

I think a simple Defy fix would be to have it take the stats of Primal Fury, maybe even have it add to melee combo meter if you have Primal Fury active. Then have damage done to you increase a damage multiplier rather than absorb/redistribute damage. Effectively just have it be a Primal Fury spin attack with increased damage when you absorb damage.

 

And we need a shout out for Celestial Stomp, pocket Rhino gives Wukong some solid CC that puts him in an odd place as a "jack of all trades". No direct support abilities, but Wukong is a solid tank, CC, and DPS now.

[Xzorn]

Not really gunna comment on "Fun" here but....

The passive should be per Revive. It's really just that simple to me.

The clone being unable to strike the Nullifier bubble isn't even a problem with it being considered an ability instead of a weapon. Plenty of abilities that manifest outside the bubble can strike it. It's only until recently with Revenant and Wisp where DE decided to start cherry picking and being inconsistent. The only abilities which cannot affect a Nullifier bubble are ones which require a target. Valkyr's Ripline is a great line in the sand example. She cannot pull enemies from inside the bubble however she can still pull herself to terrain inside the bubble.

The 1500 Armor cap for Defy is just kinda tragic. I suppose if it's affected by Steel Fiber and similar mods it's a lil better but I'd wager Gara is more immortal than the immortal monkey king. Armor does jack in this game and DE knows it. They should also know one big hit isn't all that great compared to many rapid hits.

I guess at least his 4th has Slash weight now? I dunno. He feels very "Casualized" to me.

[achromos]

12 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Not really gunna comment on "Fun" here but....

The passive should be per Revive. It's really just that simple to me.

The clone being unable to strike the Nullifier bubble isn't even a problem with it being considered an ability instead of a weapon. Plenty of abilities that manifest outside the bubble can strike it. It's only until recently with Revenant and Wisp where DE decided to start cherry picking and being inconsistent. The only abilities which cannot affect a Nullifier bubble are ones which require a target. Valkyr's Ripline is a great line in the sand example. She cannot pull enemies from inside the bubble however she can still pull herself to terrain inside the bubble.

The 1500 Armor cap for Defy is just kinda tragic. I suppose if it's affected by Steel Fiber and similar mods it's a lil better but I'd wager Gara is more immortal than the immortal monkey king. Armor does jack in this game and DE knows it. They should also know one big hit isn't all that great compared to many rapid hits.

I guess at least his 4th has Slash weight now? I dunno. He feels very "Casualized" to me.

 

Honestly we've traded a 1-trick pony for something that can use all of its abilities.  I feel he is still pretty beefy tbh if you slap on Arcane Guardian (x2), Adaptation and use Defy to plug up the last bit. 

[REMATHC1805]

Wukong Rework, REMATHC1805. Passive; RAGE meter, filling rage meter increases crit chance and attack speed for CLONE. 1(CLONE), swap forms between SMOKE and OAK. SMOKE form, every 5^th kills creates a smoke cloud, allies that enter smoke cloud gain 20% to evade all melee and bullets. OAK critical strikes regain 1 energy or life, every crit swap what the next crit gives. 2 (BEAST WITHIN)Kick dash forward while rapidly spinning staff(in right hand spining on right side and slightly over left head, life a helicopter on an angle), knocking down all enemies hit with crit, +1 rage every crit. 3 (DECEPTION) Over the next 20 seconds beat out an aoe wave on the floor, 20m, (like a banshee quake)  every 4 seconds that disarms enemies when hit. 4 (SICKOMODE) Equip the staff but no wet noodle stances and does cool stuff with a lot of spinning of the staff, no slam slam pew pew, ok maybe 1 slam slam pew pew.

 

This is just a brief description of a much better wukong rework. i thought of this doing a 10min void defense. Why with a full team and years to make changes, does DE come out with garbage.

I think his 1 has a good foundation idea, but DE just though ah clone, thats it. All thoughts where halted and a finished warframe was made, cmon

Wukongs makes him a remote observer, useless and doesnt even look cool. There are much better ways to add health regen, as of right now its just a, press to become invulnerable and nothing for a few seconds. Thats terrible gameplay.

His 3, just like how revenant is awful, because his 4 is just a press 4, then move around the map, wukong 3 is also a press 3 and move. Its not engaging at all. You press 3 then move. Thats it, thats really it.

4, omg how i was hoping (but knew my hopes were not gonna come true) that his stance would be improved. It is the most ridiculous stance in the game. Wukong is very ninja/monk like and his primal fury would be so much cooler if they removed his annoying slam "dooiiing" attack. block forward melee is better, but needs to add a 2nd staff attack after the first staff atck before the kick. With max attack speed he is attacking with his staff once and kicking once. Its awful. Make it so he attack twice then kick dashs and slightly reduce animation time and then it would be ok, the rest need to be removed and have good attacks instead. I guess you could keep the 1 reptitive slam slam attack as a(move back while blocking) atttack just for fun. Not expecting any changes to me made of course and i have given up all faith for this game.

[Yagamilight123]

" i have given up all faith for this game "

Then just quit and stop making pointless threads .

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

Who would win:

- Team of certified developers trying to remake and revive a rusty Warframe to the best of their abilities

or

- "I ThOuGht Of A BeTtEr ReWorK In A TeN MiNuTe VoId DeFeNsE"

[Whoswhoswho]

So far, I am very impressed with the rework; however, I feel like his defy becomes worthless against higher level enemies.

Against lvl 150+ enemies his armor cap (1500) does little to mitigate any damage, and the time spent invulnerable is over in a blink of an eye (even with duration mods). 

If possible, I think the cap for his armor buff should be increased, or scale with enemy level. That being said, this may be premature, as the rework was just shipped; this is just my initial concern. With more high level content being released, his survivability relies on his armor buff, and with the cap; it feels like our agile monkey dude has an anchor strapped to his tail. 

[FinOCE]

I mean it can't get less engaging than the old Wukong. I haven't tried yet, but I saw videos and it looks like it will be better overall, in my opinion, and most others who aren't just after power creep.

[TheGuyver]

Quote

Wukong Rework, REMATHC1805. Passive; RAGE meter, filling rage meter increases crit chance and attack speed for CLONE. 1(CLONE), swap forms between SMOKE and OAK. SMOKE form, every 5th kills creates a smoke cloud, allies that enter smoke cloud gain 20% to evade all melee and bullets. OAK critical strikes regain 1 energy or life, every crit swap what the next crit gives. 2 (BEAST WITHIN)Kick dash forward while rapidly spinning staff(in right hand spining on right side and slightly over left head, life a helicopter on an angle), knocking down all enemies hit with crit, +1 rage every crit. 3 (DECEPTION) Over the next 20 seconds beat out an aoe wave on the floor, 20m, (like a banshee quake)  every 4 seconds that disarms enemies when hit. 4 (SICKOMODE) Equip the staff but no wet noodle stances and does cool stuff with a lot of spinning of the staff, no slam slam pew pew, ok maybe 1 slam slam pew pew.

 

This is just a brief description of a much better wukong rework. i thought of this doing a 10min void defense. Why with a full team and years to make changes, does DE come out with garbage.

I think his 1 has a good foundation idea, but DE just though ah clone, thats it. All thoughts where halted and a finished warframe was made, cmon

Wukongs makes him a remote observer, useless and doesnt even look cool. There are much better ways to add health regen, as of right now its just a, press to become invulnerable and nothing for a few seconds. Thats terrible gameplay.

His 3, just like how revenant is awful, because his 4 is just a press 4, then move around the map, wukong 3 is also a press 3 and move. Its not engaging at all. You press 3 then move. Thats it, thats really it.

4, omg how i was hoping (but knew my hopes were not gonna come true) that his stance would be improved. It is the most ridiculous stance in the game. Wukong is very ninja/monk like and his primal fury would be so much cooler if they removed his annoying slam "dooiiing" attack. block forward melee is better, but needs to add a 2nd staff attack after the first staff atck before the kick. With max attack speed he is attacking with his staff once and kicking once. Its awful. Make it so he attack twice then kick dashs and slightly reduce animation time and then it would be ok, the rest need to be removed and have good attacks instead. I guess you could keep the 1 reptitive slam slam attack as a(move back while blocking) atttack just for fun. Not expecting any changes to me made of course and i have given up all faith for this game.

Another obligatory "I know this frame got a rework, but it's too complicated and that makes me angry so here's my rework idea instead" post.

[Xzorn]

5 minutes ago, achromos said:

Honestly we've traded a 1-trick pony for something that can use all of its abilities.  I feel he is still pretty beefy tbh if you slap on Arcane Guardian (x2), Adaptation and use Defy to plug up the last bit. 

 

This rework isn't durable. It's what DE might want players to think is durable but anything that relies on Armor alone is automatically not durable. That's just how the game mechanics work. Even when Chroma could get 30k armor he wasn't very durable.

What he does have is his clone taking attention from him but that is limited in scaling potential as well. I've already watch him get 2-3 shot from Puncture damage just like all the other Armor based frames with max Adaptation stacks. I wasn't exaggerating about Gara being far more durable and she's not nearly top of the list.

[S.Dust]

Defy also feels weak in a team setting due to the fact everything gets killed before you can actually get your armor buff.

[EinheriarJudith]

2 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

Defy also feels weak in a team setting due to the fact everything gets killed before you can actually get your armor buff.

this is one of two problems. the taunt doesnt force enemies to unload it just makes them target you and when they decide to attack they do so. and the team part you mentioned harrow also suffers from. i personally dont like relying on enemy ai for buffs.

[Agayek]

2 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

Defy also feels weak in a team setting due to the fact everything gets killed before you can actually get your armor buff.

Which is fair, but at the same time, if things are dying that quickly, you don't need the armor in the first place.

The new defy definitely has some consistency issues, but it's not really a major problem, because at its core, it's based on the damage you're taking.  If you're taking damage, then it works fine, and if it's not working, then that means you're not taking any damage so it doesn't matter.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Rework is pretty solid overall. Definitely take Wukong out of trash tier and drops him straight into "I have no mission in which I would prefer him over another frame and no desire to ever have one on my team"-tier.

[KittySkin]

First of all, the rework its incredible! Wukong feels waaaay more powerfull and dinamic than before.
Second thing, the ult new combo system are incredible too, if thats the changeset that we can expect for all melee weapons, then im really looking forward to it haha

Third thing, about his 3rd ability, Defy, can the armor bonus duration get increased? Maybe at the expense of an even shorter armor building phase.
I ask this because  the builds that synergize with his ult do not work well with that ability because the lack of duration, even without using Fleeting Expertise. Maybe with a longer armor buff duration and a lower buildup time his kit will be better usable on ult focused builds, making him more simple to use, or at least less spammy.
Thx for the rework BTW, im having a hell of fun with him now haha

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

 

This rework isn't durable. It's what DE might want players to think is durable but anything that relies on Armor alone is automatically not durable. That's just how the game mechanics work. Even when Chroma could get 30k armor he wasn't very durable.

What he does have is his clone taking attention from him but that is limited in scaling potential as well. I've already watch him get 2-3 shot from Puncture damage just like all the other Armor based frames with max Adaptation stacks. I wasn't exaggerating about Gara being far more durable and she's not nearly top of the list.

Obviously I don't have access to him yet but from what I've read and seen it seems like the whole idea for wukong is micro managing invulnerability. 

By which I mean you pick your moments when you use defy for a breather and moments when you use cloud walker to nope out. Sometimes using both. 

Not saying this is a counter point or anything just an observation. I don't think DE was attempting to make him another tank. I think they wanted to just make him more engaging as a melee frame and gave some extra survival stuff to do so.

[White-Chocolate]

2 hours ago, krc473 said:

That your post is more of a meta-complaint (not allowed) than feedback. You should remove all the complaining about others and explain what you like.

I did explain what I like, I also pointed out that other people think otherwise from me and that I believe that they are mistaken.