Wukong Revisit

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Chaosdivide said:

I wasn't afk'n

Okay?

Was just giving my opinion on the issue. 

[Colyeses]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Long enough for you? 

Nice to know this visual glitch hasn't been fixed.

Then press E and split Lua in half!

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Colyeses said:

Then press E and split Lua in half!

Split Lua in half with my huge stick?

Spoiler

Would be interesting if it actually affected the range of the next attack, but alas, no luck there.

[Colyeses]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Split Lua in half with my huge stick?

  Reveal hidden contents

Would be interesting if it actually affected the range of the next attack, but alas, no luck there.

"Eliminate everyone."

Wukong: : )
Wukong: *Slide attack*

"You've broken their ranks and they're on the run"

[Chaosdivide]

5 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Okay?

Was just giving my opinion on the issue. 

same? was giving my opinion as why it affects me personally.  if its intentionally done that way, that's fine, but if its an oversight on a game mechanic and affects my play style (I won't earn xp/affinity?) shouldn't I bring that up?

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Chaosdivide said:

same?

 

10 minutes ago, Chaosdivide said:

I wasn't afk'n

^ You responded defensively, so I replied to say that I wasn't judging, only sharing my opinion. Everything's chill.

[TheFlameFlash]

17 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

and make the stab attack the stance's charge attack but with better aim (you can only hit enemies on the same level as you currently).

Maybe have a charge attack (or the hold momentarily then release that some stances use) working like similar to iron jab(or even take it further and have iron vault in there too but maybe without the range/damage buffs or just a toned down version of that) I didn't play wukong much before the rework but I think it would be awesome to have that back in his 4

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

A lot of these "complaints" I've been reading in this thread that claim that Wukong misses the mark as being a great rework sound absolutely silly.

Just because you disagree with the developers vision of how the frame should be played, doesn't make the changes bad.

"Defy doesn't give enough armor"

"Primal Fury Makes both me and my clone use melee"

"Teammates kill the enemies who were going to buff me in defy" (how did you not see this coming?)

"My Clone won't use Alt fire or Gunblade charge attacks"

"I want infinite revives with Wukongs passive"

DE Pablo is probably looking at you guys like:

[EinheriarJudith]

his rework is so good that sometimes i catch myself nearing 1hr in survival when i only meant to do 20m hahahahahaha.

[FreeWilliam]

So far I'm liking the new rework quite a bit, Wukong's feeling nice and lively and IMHO it's a big improvement. 

Thoughts so far...

Passive - Five levels of immortality

This is the most 'meh' of the changes for me.  It's not a very exciting passive 

I'm also noticing it's not interacting well with Quick Thinking (seems to jump in front of it, which seems counter-productive for a limited-use passive since QT builds are on the edge of death a lot).  It also may be breaking it, but I didn't do an in-depth experiment, I just noticed I was dying in an arbitration that I'd have survived with my Mag build in.

Cloney/Celestial Twin

I love my little buddy and he makes it easy to build synergies with primary/melee combos.  I think this is the best change of the rework and fits the frame nicely. 

Only caveats I have are...

1) How's the primary/secondary interaction supposed to work?  He was spending a lot of time using the primary and only would occasionally use the secondary.  I'm fine with 'always primary' or 'which one you have equipped' but 'whatever floats your boat' is hard to build around

2) The targeting pause in melee is kind of weird.  If he's stuck in melee mode shouldn't he just spam the 'E' key and only stop meleeing when it's faster to move towards a target?  He's a bit better with the cosmic glowstick, but not by much.

Cloud Walker

I dig it.  I kind of wish it was on the first power button like Atlas/Valkyr/Zephyr/Excalibur's movement abilities, but it's such a nice boost I'm already happy.  The speed improvement really makes a massive difference for me.

Defy

It's okay, but I'm still not getting a proper feel for how useful that taunt is.  it might be something I have to build for more.

Primal Fury

if this is the future of melee I'm intrigued.  A couple of aspects of the stance are a bit odd but I like the key combo approach in general.  The right-mouse synergy is a bit weird because a lot of us have a 'hold the right mouse to aim' mentality and it feels like maybe the right mouse should be slowing us down rather than turbo-boosting us, but the general concept is a huge improvement over all the timing-based combos we've got right now.

I do love how much ground you can cover with it and while the near-teleporting with the close combo might not work for all frames and stances it sure feels appropriate for Wukong.

[DeeDeetheSpy]

First of all: I really like the kit. I see other people seem to not be using him to his maximum potential but I think that will come in time. Thing I want to talk about is the augments though

 

Celestial Stomp vs Iron Vault: Personally, Iron Vault was one of the most interesting augments Wukong had and it's been replaced with diet stomp. I spent a lot of time experimenting with different weapons and it was a lot of fun trying to figure out what works best with Iron Vault. Suggestion: Combine the two. Press 1, Wuklone ground slams that spot for the boosts Iron Vault boosted ground slams. Lets me mix it up and figure out synergies with various melee weapons.

 

Enveloping Cloud: Its nifty, Given any attacks cause it to blink off seems to limit it's use but does bring more enemy attention to Wukong, so there is that. While it does seem to give the buff to Wuklone, It doesn't seem to effect my sentinel. Could use it on that. Really would like though is the heal effect. Something like, it puts a buff on the friendly that builds up heal as I move around, then soon as I drop it gives them that health. Or maybe just heal affected people  as I move around. 

 

Primal Rage: Not much to say here as it's a rather uninteresting augment. Yay, I kill better. I think its good to have augments like this though, some people just need some meat and potatoes with out having to worry about fancy synergies or what ever. Or something. Edit: Maybe make the crit bonus based on the amount of damage Wukong/Wuklone has taken instead of based on kills? To go along with more traditional rage type effects from various games and to flavor to Wukong's tanky theme.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by DeeDeetheSpy

[hooperinius]

His number 2 benefits from Volt buff so you can fly around at the speed of lulz.

[Leodeth]

I'd like to start this topic by saying that Wukong's rework has created several new play style opportunities but requires a few adjustments to work properly.

The following are skills that currently do not work as intended:

1- When the Celestial Twin uses a melee weapon it occasionally runs in circles around the enemies or just stares at them doing nothing.

2- The Celestial Twin deals no damage when it uses a Gunblade, it just procs some statuses that I believe also deal no damage and only keep knocking enemies down.

3- You can't exit Cloud Walker with a melee attack as mentioned in the Wukong dev workshop stream, you can only cancel it by re-clicking the ability button again or if you shoot with a primary/secondary weapon.

Now for the changes:

They are minor but can make Wukong's play style more flexible. Currently, the Celestial Twin can only use your guns if you use your melee and if you use your guns he just switches to melee and as a result I feel forced to use my melee for him to use a gun.

Instead of the current state where the Celestial Twin just switches to melee if you start using your primary or secondary, it should be able to use the other weapon that you switched from. For example: If you switch from your primary to your secondary it starts using the primary and by applying that change you can make it use whatever weapon you switch from while allowing you to also use the weapon of your choice.

[ConsumerJTC]

This just in, I just noticed that Wukong does not have a charge attack whatsoever?

How about having iron jab as a charge attack on his primed fury? Its a fun way to bring it back to him as well as iron vault.

[Agayek]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

"Primal Fury Makes both me and my clone use melee"

"Teammates kill the enemies who were going to buff me in defy" (how did you not see this coming?)

The rest I more-or-less agree with, but these are actual problems in the design space.

The first, Primal Fury causing Wuclone to pull out his stick too, is a problem because the whole point of the clone is to use a gun when you use melee and vice-versa.  This creates a really interesting and unique space for builds that no other frame really has: gun/melee synergies.  But then, when Primal Fury forces the clone into melee at the same time, the player either has to activate Primal Fury and not use it, or they lose that build space.  And given how Primal Fury is arguably Wukong's central pillar, that isn't exactly great design.

The second is less important of an issue, but it is an example of frame design that goes against the prevailing game trends (that is to say, excessive amounts of AOE murder and/or CC). The new Defy is 100% reliant on actually being hit by enemies, and it's very possible for things you couldn't possibly predict to happen between the start and end of defy that could seriously screw with it.  The example I gave earlier was a Rhino stomp, which you'd have no way to predict, but there's dozens of other possibilities, up to and including the enemies simply deciding not to attack you after you taunt them.  It's a glaring weakness of the new Defy, which causes problems because when something like that happens, it can and will overwrite your 1500 armor buff with a 50 armor buff, and then you're leaning on your limited-use passive to avoid being one-shot.

Now to be clear, the Defy issue isn't the end of the world, by any stretch, and it's easy enough to play around it.  It's just that it creates an incentive to not cast Defy when you have a good armor buff up, as you're gambling that no one is going to interfere and cause you to throw that shiny armor buff out the window.  It's a niggling quality of life issue that, while not a make-or-break thing, is holding Wukong back from being great.

[scourge213]

1 hour ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

A lot of these "complaints" I've been reading in this thread that claim that Wukong misses the mark as being a great rework sound absolutely silly.

Just because you disagree with the developers vision of how the frame should be played, doesn't make the changes bad.

"Defy doesn't give enough armor"

"Primal Fury Makes both me and my clone use melee"

"Teammates kill the enemies who were going to buff me in defy" (how did you not see this coming?)

"My Clone won't use Alt fire or Gunblade charge attacks"

"I want infinite revives with Wukongs passive"

DE Pablo is probably looking at you guys like:

 

Whats silly is your comment about them.

Team mates, alt fire and the infinite revives are quite on spot. Defy breaks the flow of the game, the AI sucks, its no secret and DE know it, and 3 saves that will buy you just a couple of seconds before you die anyway is simply bad. Armor and fury are debatable, but his EHP is not great at all for a melee build at higher level content and fury does remove quite a bit of utility from the clone.

For that matter you should be pointing out Pablo's nonsense. "We dont want abilities that are fire and forget" - "here take this infinite duration ability"(the clone).

 

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by scourge213

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

12 minutes ago, scourge213 said:

For that matter you should be pointing out Pablo's nonsense. "We dont want abilities that are fire and forget" - "here take this infinite duration ability"(the clone).

You think...the clone which is intergrated into EVERY aspect of Wukongs new kit is fire and forget?

Thank god for the ignore feature. I have little patience for stupidity like this.

[scourge213]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

You think...the clone which is intergrated into EVERY aspect of Wukongs new kit is fire and forget?

Thank god for the ignore feature. I have little patience for stupidity like this.

So an ability that you can leave for like 10 minutes in a low level mission while being afk is not a fire and forget? Sorry didn't know, i guess there isnt any abilities that are fire and forget then. Then what is are those phantom abilities that pablo speaks of? They obviously dont exist.

[Kainosh]

19 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

A vault and a poke on the other hand are... not it.

 

My idea is :  "Grappling hook" Poke.  Poke can be aimed anywhere (upwards too). If enemy survives the Poke, you will Vault directly at that enemy. And if you press attack just as you arrive with vault, you will perform stronger dropkick.

Somewhat like Ophion in angel form from DmC.  

 

You will also be able to hit switches and flying drones from afar with it.  

[hooperinius]

28 minutes ago, scourge213 said:

So an ability that you can leave for like 10 minutes in a low level mission while being afk is not a fire and forget? Sorry didn't know, i guess there isnt any abilities that are fire and forget then. Then what is are those phantom abilities that pablo speaks of? They obviously dont exist.

Wukong clone isn't any different than the various specters you can spawn. Not to mention that it's the most fun part of his current kit.

In fact it's probably weaker than a lot of specters, some of them are practically indestructable at higher levels.

Edited June 20, 2019 by hooperinius

[Pacheon]

A great work has been done with this frame, which actually lets me play it. Schitanks weri weri matsh!

There are still some butthurt users complaining about the "we lose high dmg (on 4th ability), gain instead a useless clone", which I find ridiculously misplaced, since the twin can 1 shot lv 100+ enemies with the correct weapon+setup - but somehow just 1 thing is missing from this mechanic: Selective weapon parsing.

I cannot seem to figure it out how to swap my secondary to my clone, without removing my primary entirely from my setup, which is a bit of a bummer. This needs a bit of adjustment, like doing it equinox-style? Last equiped weapon parses to the twin, when player is using melee.

 

Other than that, the Warframe is more satisfying in terms of synergy and usability (especially spy with cloud walker and with twin taking out cameras, traps, gate-lazors, etc, where we CAN dispell the twin if not wanted!) and separate modable big stick. Just missing the usual meta mods like blood rush, maiming strike and so on *cough* power creeeep

[Olianu]

As of writing this initially, I have little to no major complaints thus far from my impressions, bar two from cloud walker.  The one I will mention first will be more of a warning to players picking him back up.

The speed of cloud walker was much needed, but coming from someone that frequently used this power in specific, it feel almost too fast and I am having to calibrate my mind for it.  I got so used to the slow stealth it made it feel clunky to me.  I repeat again:  This I believe more me not being used to the speed yet.  I'm sure with practice I can make this part of the power work.

The duration feel too short and is more of a panic button rather than actual stealth.  My request would be to consider increasing the timer on Cloud Walker up from 2 seconds to 5 seconds.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Olianu

[Skaleek]

I agree, base cloudwalker duration feels a little short.

[Mu_Gera]

20 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Passive

Definitely agree. what I don't like about the passive isn't just that it's limited, glorified revives, it's also that it doesn't provide any other benefits unless you die.

[EinheriarJudith]

DE should have never introduced passives. people get stuck on them like they are the end all be all. mags passive is useless. does that diminish her skill set? absolutely not. i play like his passive is not even there because imo it doesnt matter.

let me give you an example of how i could remove a passive.

Ash:

Hemorrhage

Any Slash Procs inflicted by Ash (from both weapons and abilities) deal 25% more damage and last 50% longer.

Shuriken and blade storm now apply this as a debuff. boom ash has no passive and it doesnt matter.