Valkyr killed has arrived

[NoLazyShadow]

What I can say? Wukong rework is really good! I like it. He's still an immortal monkey with a stick, but now he's strong, useable and can rip and tear using all 4 skills. I can't say the same about Valkyr. She's forgoten, heavly outdated and in need of a rework for years. Half of her skillset is useless, she need at least 3 augments to be useable with all 4 skill. But now nobody gonna play her - we got another frame that do everything she could, but better. God damn it, DE, when you stop ignoring Valk and gave her love she deserve...

[krc473]

7 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Half of her skillset is useless, she need at least 3 augments to be useable with all 4 skill.

I disagree. I only find Paralysis useless. I think Valkyr is fine as is. Sure, some changes would be okay, but I don’t think they are required. My biggest one would be to combine Hysteria with its augment.

 

I tested Wukong after the changes were made. I found most of his kit fairly pointless. The clone is very ‘set and forget’, the exact issue DE stated with old Defy. I never really liked Wukong before, my opinion has not been changed at all by the rework. I went back to using Valkyr after about an hour, likely to never touch Wukong until he is primed.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

10 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I disagree. I only find Paralysis useless. I think Valkyr is fine as is. Sure, some changes would be okay, but I don’t think they are required. My biggest one would be to combine Hysteria with its augment.

 

I tested Wukong after the changes were made. I found most of his kit fairly pointless. The clone is very ‘set and forget’, the exact issue DE stated with old Defy. I never really liked Wukong before, my opinion has not been changed at all by the rework. I went back to using Valkyr after about an hour, likely to never touch Wukong until he is primed.

Valkyr is a glorified beating stick that is outclassed by mods existing. Nothing she has is worth using over a good melee weapon. 

You are miss using DEs verbiage. Defy had no interaction. It was a switch you turned on and that was it. No player interaction. Wukong's clone is basically front and center of his kit and is involved in most of it in some way. He fights along side you. Very interactive. 

Also paralysis is probably valks second best ability. Cheap spammable aoe with augment. Or open a tough enemy with a finisher. Only outclassed by her warcry in usefulness. 

I very much doubt you get the new wukong. 

[krc473]

29 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

You are miss using DEs verbiage. Defy had no interaction. It was a switch you turned on and that was it. No player interaction. Wukong's clone is basically front and center of his kit and is involved in most of it in some way. He fights along side you. Very interactive. 

I do understand the difference. It just seemed strange to me that they made an ability that you can use while totally AFK. But changed one because you could do just that. But, I see your point. I probably should have elaborated on what I meant more.

30 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Also paralysis is probably valks second best ability. Cheap spammable aoe with augment. Or open a tough enemy with a finisher. Only outclassed by her warcry in usefulness. 

I place very little value on this. Why spam an ability, or open enemies up to finishers when they die in a single shot anyway? To me, that is totally pointless. I have never valued this ability, because it doesn't do something I have a use for. You can find it useful, I accept that, but I do not. Warcry is useful, Hysteria is also useful. Ripline is a fun toy, not sure if I would call it useful or not - it is somewhat useful in the new Gas City tile. 

32 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I very much doubt you get the new wukong. 

You are welcome to try and explain what you think I am missing (if you don't want to clog this thread, DM me instead). It is unlikely to change my opinion of Wukong. My biggest issue is the terrible AI on the clone. Maybe I am just unlucky, but it keeps getting stuck on everything, failing to attack marked stuff etc. The three times I have run a capture mission, the clone gets stuck trying to capture the target, which it is unable to capture. My main use in Cloud Walker was as an '/unstuck' command for the clone. Maybe the rework is great, maybe I am missing something, but so far I have not enjoyed the new Wukong.

[Chewarette]

Yeah, Valkyr totally hasn't an insane attack speed booster for both her and the squad. She probably doesn't have an invulnerable oh-S#&$ button dealing a S#&$ton of damage either

42 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Valkyr is a glorified beating stick that is outclassed by mods existing. Nothing she has is worth using over a good melee weapon. 

You're aware you can use both mods and a melee weapon on Valkyr as well or nah ?

Edited June 20, 2019 by Chewarette

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

4 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I do understand the difference. It just seemed strange to me that they made an ability that you can use while totally AFK. But changed one because you could do just that. But, I see your point. I probably should have elaborated on what I meant more.

In that sense I can see what you're getting at.  Though I personally don't agree with the line being drawn by you.  But I do appreciate the clarification.

4 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I place very little value on this. Why spam an ability, or open enemies up to finishers when they die in a single shot anyway? To me, that is totally pointless. I have never valued this ability, because it doesn't do something I have a use for. You can find it useful, I accept that, but I do not. Warcry is useful, Hysteria is also useful. Ripline is a fun toy, not sure if I would call it useful or not - it is somewhat useful in the new Gas City tile. 

I primarily use it on heavy units if i'm not in hysteria (since her slide attack in hysteria is just plain better.)  It's also a very nice utility to quickly stun a threat in front of me for a short breather.  But I do understand that certain melee weapons/stances can provide similar utility.  I personally just take value in anything that lets me basically insta delete a target I dislike.  Usually Nox.

4 minutes ago, krc473 said:

You are welcome to try and explain what you think I am missing (if you don't want to clog this thread, DM me instead). It is unlikely to change my opinion of Wukong. My biggest issue is the terrible AI on the clone. Maybe I am just unlucky, but it keeps getting stuck on everything, failing to attack marked stuff etc. The three times I have run a capture mission, the clone gets stuck trying to capture the target, which it is unable to capture. My main use in Cloud Walker was as an '/unstuck' command for the clone. Maybe the rework is great, maybe I am missing something, but so far I have not enjoyed the new Wukong.

Not attempting to change your opinion of wukong.  Was more inferring that you might not see the larger picture about him.  We can DM about this though as this is a thread about Valkyr.

1 minute ago, Chewarette said:

Yeah, Valkyr totally hasn't an insane attack speed booster for both her and the squad. She probably doesn't have an invulnerable oh-S#&$ button dealing a S#&$ton of damage either

You're aware you can use both mods and a melee weapon on Valkyr as well or nah ?

Yes.  But hysteria is still not worth using over one because of the insane energy cost to keep it up with it's insanely short range.  I primarily use it to safe revive someone or as a semi panic survival/heal button.  But I rarely find a situation in which I have enough time to not only see immeinent death but have the time to activate hysteria in high end content.  I don't think it's healthy to have one's main advertized ability to be used in such a clunky out of the box way.  The fantasy it once carried is now vastly over shadowed and melee being as strong as it is currently makes her feel less and less relevant.  She needs more than what she is currently.

[Chewarette]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Yes.  But hysteria is still not worth using over one because of the insane energy cost to keep it up with it's insanely short range.  I primarily use it to safe revive someone or as a semi panic survival/heal button.  But I rarely find a situation in which I have enough time to not only see immeinent death but have the time to activate hysteria in high end content.  I don't think it's healthy to have one's main advertized ability to be used in such a clunky out of the box way.  The fantasy it once carried is now vastly over shadowed and melee being as strong as it is currently makes her feel less and less relevant.  She needs more than what she is currently.

But she is... not meant to be in eternal Hysteria. Just like Baruuk is not really meant to be in eternal 4.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Just now, Chewarette said:

But she is... not meant to be in eternal Hysteria. Just like Baruuk is not really meant to be in eternal 4.

And i'm not asking for that.  I just find the ability to be lack luster.  Press 4 to have access to a stronger melee weapon.  Cool.  Except my Zaw is better than it in every way baring slide attack multipliers.  So why use it?  invincibility?  I can play any number of frames that can survive just as long as her and have better overall tool kits.  Hysteria does too little for it's shortcomings and gives no reason to use it.  I don't know why anyone would be arguing against giving a melee frame more utility.

[Chewarette]

47 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

 So why use it?  invincibility?  I can play any number of frames that can survive just as long as her and have better overall tool kits.

You can play any number of frames which are downright invincible (not tanky tanky, in-vin-ci-ble) ?

Are you using a cheat code or something ?

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1 minute ago, Chewarette said:

You can play any number of frames which are downright invincible (not tanky tanky, in-vin-ci-ble) ?

Are you using a cheat code or something ?

 

I'm just going to close out here because you're just memeing instead of actually trying to have a discussion that counters or disproves any of my complaints.

[asianguy262001]

i agree. i'll TRY to list everything obsolete with valkyr imo cause DE needs to give her a rework that can fix these issues. Looking at the wudong rework i really have hope for DE

-hysteria combo is frustrating. in her combo there is one specific part where she slam her legs which if you're moving, it will stop you immediately. If her gameplay and identity revolves around "agile berserker" then why is this pausing necessary? it ruins the fluid and its annoying to use. you're in your 4 back flip and S#&$ and then this part of the combo just stop all the momentum you build up

-her 1 was meant to be beneficial in combat but it doesnt. when you look at her 1, it has damage, a clear indication of "use this on the enemy". But when you do, you dont close the gap between you and the enemy like you're suppose to. it is really not that hard to code it so that the enemy is pulled right infront of you.

- why isnt her 1 usable on some doors? or even trees in POE. i really fail to see why they wont just make it so that she can use her 1 on everything. If she can use her 1 on bosses and instead of pulling them in, you pull yourself toward them, it'd be really cool

_her 3 is the worse version of excalibur 2, and beside the screaming i fail to see how that's connected to her theme and aesthetic 
 

-valkyr theme is that she's a berserker cat, NOT a support. however, the only good thing she brings is the buff from her 2. if i am a new player, i look at valkyr's kit and description, i would see her as a dps melee, not much of a support frame. This is just as bad as old excal during the time where the only thing you can do is to spam 2

_fixing her is easy af. give a new combo for 4, merge her 4 with [hysterical assault] and make it so that i dont have to press 2 buttons just to jump to an enemy (for the sake of fluid gameplay), fix her 1 just like what i suggested above, give her a new 3rd ability or to heavily rework it. 

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by asianguy262001

[Chewarette]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I'm just going to close out here because you're just memeing instead of actually trying to have a discussion that counters or disproves any of my complaints.

You're saying that Hysteria doesn't bring anything because somehow any Warframe can do the same, I was just expecting you to come with a list of "on-demand invulnerability" spells we have in this game.

You're asking what Hysteria brings that is unique, while denying "invulnerability + insane life leech" is a thing. You're the only one meme-ing Valkyr, hinting that Wukong is now superior to Valkyr in every aspects, even though they're still very different Warframes. They're Melee Warframes, right, but not the same style, exactly the same way Vauban and Nyx are totally different CC Warframes or Inaros and Hildryn very different tank Warframes.

Enjoy the differences. Maybe Wukong is better in some aspects, but Valkyr will be superior in some other ones. Valkyr already has an insane list of utilities, actually more than Wukong has now due to the fact Wukong doesn't buff allies afaik.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Chewarette

[Arkennstar]

If you think Valkyr is useless, you dont know how to build/use her. Period.

[CuteFoxyFox]

I would agree that some of Valkyr's kit feels... not exactly outdated or useless but clunky

Mostly her 4 and im talking about DE's way of Balancing Valkyr. This... area, this weird energy wall that increses the longer you are in your ability. It just feels... wierd. I think her 4 should be balanced in some other way, ofc it was done to make her less unkillable during missions etc. but I think she could really benefit from changing her 4 to damage reduction than immortality, why?

As we saw Nezha got nice 3rd skill change and I think Valkyr could benefit from it. To get energy from rage and as her claws heals her she could make the dmg back. If she dies? Maybe something like Wukong's passive? "If Valkyr dies she does an AOE scream which CCs enemies" and then her 4 could be on little CD.

 

Im just trying to come up with an balanced idea. Current state of Valkyr 4 IS NOT BAD I repeat. I think it just feels clunky compared to some Melee focused frames we got to get recently.

[NoLazyShadow]

2 часа назад, (XB1)Knight Raime сказал:

I primarily use it to safe revive someone or as a semi panic survival/heal button

Operator could do that faster

1 час назад, Chewarette сказал:

ou can play any number of frames which are downright invincible (not tanky tanky, in-vin-ci-ble) ?

Are you using a cheat code or something ?

Operator mode with AOE heal arcane = cheats)

1 час назад, Arkennstar сказал:

If you think Valkyr is useless, you dont know how to build/use her. Period.

Mate, I play her since she was avaible for farm. I know everythnig about her. Just press 2 -> rip and tear -> repeat step 2. 3 other abilitys left to bite the dust. Other frames do her job better and have more intresting gameplay.

 

1 час назад, asianguy262001 сказал:

DE needs to give her a rework that can fix these issues

But they ignore her for years and no matter how I ask, how many forum posts I make  - they ignore her, while people claim her to be "fine as she is".

[Arkennstar]

55 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Mate, I play her since she was avaible for farm. I know everythnig about her. Just press 2 -> rip and tear -> repeat step 2. 3 other abilitys left to bite the dust. Other frames do her job better and have more intresting gameplay.

"Interesting" is a matter of preference.. I find her fun and I'm sure many others do. She's still my most played frame. No other frame I own can withstand a full barrage from enemies in a 1 hour plus survival without the help of Arcane Grace and all. No other frame has more fun to offer for a melee playstyle. If you just press 2 and kill and repeat, then I will reiterate, you dont play her well. Or maybe the melee playstyle is not for you.

I rarely use guns, opting to take out the corpus cameras with a melee air strike even, and for such a thing, Valkyr is pretty much my favorite frame. 1 can bring me closer to enemies or bring them closer to me, 2 slows them down, makes me faster, makes me more durable than I already am, 3 opens up finishers on tough enemies and 4 just allows me to clear a cluster of tougher enemies like a Corrupted Bombard or Nox in very high levels if they show up. With the recent changes to melee, you can right click, pop out of Hysteria and get hit a bit to recharge your energy using [Rage] or [Hunter Adrenaline] and then go back into Hysteria.

I cannot think of a dps warframe who can reliably without dying, take out a couple of Nox eximus units/Corrupted Bombard units in 1 hour + endless missions in case they show up in a group.

Could she use a buff? Sure why not, I would love that. Is she useless? FAR from it.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Arkennstar

[Chewarette]

2 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Operator mode with AOE heal arcane = cheats)

Ah ok, an invulnerable mode but at the cost of doing nothing / being useless. Awesome indeed, that totally replaces Valkyr's Hysteria.

I think I would have stopped Warframe after 10 minutes if I were to play this game the way most of you seem to

Edited June 20, 2019 by Chewarette

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Did OP really suggest 3 augments on Valkr??

Edited June 20, 2019 by (XB1)Thy Divinity

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

6 hours ago, Arkennstar said:

If you think Valkyr is useless, you dont know how to build/use her. Period.

"I can't provide proper counter points to raised complaints. So here's a blanket cop out statement." 

[o0Despair0o]

Ever since they did that melee rework, Valkyr feels horrible to play. Heck, claw weapons in general feel horrible now.

I had to turn on melee auto targeting to hit ANYTHING with them.

[aswitz87]

Valkyr is the best frame in game...

She has a bug where her hysteria stops using energy.

 

Jokes aside, she can solo almost any content in the game just fine regardless of weapon choice.  She’s is fine.

[Arkennstar]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

"I can't provide proper counter points to raised complaints. So here's a blanket cop out statement." 

Well, firstly I did provide some counter points in my next post.

Secondly, I've been on game forums for long enough to know that you can argue literally any point back and forth for ages and get nowhere because everyone has playstyles, builds, experiences and more importantly bias they will stick to. I will openly admit to being biased towards Valkyr. 

So, the point of my blanket statement and one I live by myself, is that if I say something is useless, but anyone, even ONE other person can use it well, then its my fault for not being able to use it. Not the fault of the object in question. 

Edited June 20, 2019 by Arkennstar

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

44 minutes ago, Arkennstar said:

Well, firstly I did provide some counter points in my next post.

Secondly, I've been on game forums for long enough to know that you can argue literally any point back and forth for ages and get nowhere because everyone has playstyles, builds, experiences and more importantly bias they will stick to. I will openly admit to being biased towards Valkyr. 

So, the point of my blanket statement and one I live by myself, is that if I say something is useless, but anyone, even ONE other person can use it well, then its my fault for not being able to use it. Not the fault of the object in question. 

The problem with that logic is that everything in warframe is useful because with the right load out and mods you can make anything work anywhere. 

The point OP and I were trying to make is that Valkyrs entire existence is dated because several aspects about her can be done by other kits. And said kits happen to also bring more utility compared to her. The only unique aspect of her kit is how frequent you can do finishers with her entire kit. But seeing as how there is almost no reason to ever use finishers frequently with her it's not much of a talking point. 

Valkyr was my main frame dating back to right after we stopped having to slot out abilities like mods. She still probably has the most playtime of all the frames I use despite my usage for her dropping almost completely off for over a year now. 

I adore her theme and looks. But I struggle to find reason to use her beyond the occasional novelty run. Like any other individual who has a favorite frame I'd love for her to receive some love so I have a reason to bring her out. Heck I used to exclusively use her for ranking up melees. 

I don't anymore because chroma is better at raw damage output with it and more tanky than her even in a well built eternal war build. 

I'm not asking for a total kit overhaul. I just want her to have usable utility that amounts to something for her beyond being a melee stick. 

[VentiGlondi]

The real Valkyr killer is her outdated kit

[SenorClipClop]

Valkyr has her usefulness, shreds most content and does so pretty slickly. While she may not be "competitive" versus other frames or certain setups, she's easily "viable". If we were to get a Valkyr who felt more updated, more in tune with the current game, differences might look like:

• A bit more "oomph" into the momentum of Ripline. Slightly quicker cast, faster starting momentum.
• A reliable gap-closer outside of Hysterical Assault. My idea is when Riplining an enemy, holding down the ability button pulls Valkyr toward the target.
• A chance for Paralysis to cancel enemy animations. Often getting into Paralysis range triggers Heavy units' close-range attack animations, which make them invulnerable to Paralysis. Then you gotta spam the skill a couple times and it's really no fun.
• A tiny bit more range on the Talons.
• The same sort of combo rework that Wukong got on his Iron Staff, that Melee 3.0 precursor with wide-sweeping moves, high-damage stationaries and forward gap-closing moves.