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NoLazyShadow

Valkyr killed has arrived

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22 hours ago, Chewarette said:

But she is... not meant to be in eternal Hysteria. Just like Baruuk is not really meant to be in eternal 4.

Dudes clearly not going to get it if he thinks shes useless, he probably thinks Mesa is garbage because you cant stay in peacemaker all day. Valkyr used to be able to maintain her 4 pretty much indefinitely and you had people running 4 hour survival with her solo and only leaving because they got bored. So a usual knee-jerk reaction by DE made her have a ramp up energy drain to combat that. The only frames that really fall into severely needing a rework category are ember, vauban and titania. 

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Il y a 21 heures, Arkennstar a dit :

If you think Valkyr is useless, you dont know how to build/use her. Period.

This right here. Also I'm laughing very hard at the people who think her claws are somehow subpar compared to zaws, particularly after the melee 2.9 change. 

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22 часа назад, Chewarette сказал:

But she is... not meant to be in eternal Hysteria. Just like Baruuk is not really meant to be in eternal 4.

Aka you only meant to play just like those awesome totaly not biased devs on trash sub lv 50 or 70 missions, cause hey we balance the game around lv 30. But then we also have napalms, hyekkas, bombards, heavy gunners, hyenas and all of the Corpus capable of one shotting most warframes at lv 100 and above, or kill most warframe in seconds depending on the mods from lv 50 or 70.

But yeah youre not meant to do that, totaly not meant to neither enjoy yourself or the game with that one warframe that only has Melee range based Exalted Weapon as its shtick and is incapable of both mass murder in a press of one button and doing most objective related missions on its own. So enjoy by all means. 

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11 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Aka you only meant to play just like those awesome totaly not biased devs on trash sub lv 50 or 70 missions, cause hey we balance the game around lv 30. But then we also have napalms, hyekkas, bombards, heavy gunners, hyenas and all of the Corpus capable of one shotting most warframes at lv 100 and above, or kill most warframe in seconds depending on the mods from lv 50 or 70.

But yeah youre not meant to do that, totaly not meant to neither enjoy yourself or the game with that one warframe that only has Melee range based Exalted Weapon as its shtick and is incapable of both mass murder in a press of one button and doing most objective related missions on its own. So enjoy by all means. 

If a Bombard lvl 100 kills your Valkyr without Hysteria, you're the problem though

Valkyr's eternal war will get one-shotted by nearly nothing until the stupidly high levels. And if you know you'll be running head first inside a room with 20 toxic ancients lvl 400, you're supposed to anticipate that and hit 4 before, like, dying. That's even worse you're talking about Bombards and Napalms as their missiles are slow af, you have plenty of time to activate 4 if you know this will kill you.

tl;dr Valkyr's survivability is fine, that looks like a "you" problem

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I used to play Valkyr a lot until I realized she is simply weak in compare to many other frames.
Survivability? - Inaros, Gara, Wukong, Hydroid, Rhino, Atlas and many others do it much better and are not limited to short ranged goofy claws.
Damage? - Gara, Banshee, Saryn, Ash, Garuda, Nova, Mag, Equinox and many others do it better
Team buffs? - Harrow, Octavia, Wisp, Rhino do it better
CC? - do I even have to comment?
Exalted weapon? - she has the worst one - short range, goofy stance, low damage

I don't say she is useless, she is just outdated and could use some polish here and there to make her a viable choice.
She has been a viable choice not before Wukong rework but before Inaros appeared. Her only strengths were Warcry, Hysteria and high armor value.
Hysteria has been nerfed. Armor has a softcap. Inaros made her cry in corner. Then Gara. Revenant. Now Wukung. For warcry - Octavia appeared, Harrow now Wisp.

Valkyr needs a rework too, along with all old warframes. The new frames (and well reworked frames) are simply too strong in compare to old ones. (and instead of buffing the old ones, DE decides to nerf them ...... *coughs* Ivara's Cloak Arrow *coughs* Ember's WoF *coughs* Banshee's Quake *coughs* Nezha's Warding Halo *coughs* Trinity's Blessing *coughs* Zephyr's Turbulence *coughs and dies coughing* ...)

 

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On 2019-06-20 at 3:49 AM, NoLazyShadow said:

What I can say? Wukong rework is really good! I like it. He's still an immortal monkey with a stick, but now he's strong, useable and can rip and tear using all 4 skills. I can't say the same about Valkyr. She's forgoten, heavly outdated and in need of a rework for years. Half of her skillset is useless, she need at least 3 augments to be useable with all 4 skill. But now nobody gonna play her - we got another frame that do everything she could, but better. God damn it, DE, when you stop ignoring Valk and gave her love she deserve...

That’s a funny way to spell “NYX”.

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Though choice :

Révélation

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or

Révélation

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Le 20/06/2019 à 11:49, NoLazyShadow a dit :

. But now nobody gonna play her

Nice, i will be the only one !🤗

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44 минуты назад, Sanxxieh сказал:

I used to play Valkyr a lot until I realized she is simply weak in compare to many other frames.
Survivability? - Inaros, Gara, Wukong, Hydroid, Rhino, Atlas and many others do it much better and are not limited to short ranged goofy claws.
Damage? - Gara, Banshee, Saryn, Ash, Garuda, Nova, Mag, Equinox and many others do it better
Team buffs? - Harrow, Octavia, Wisp, Rhino do it better
CC? - do I even have to comment?
Exalted weapon? - she has the worst one - short range, goofy stance, low damage

You forgot to mention god mode - too many drawbacks mixed with short ranged exalted weapon that have no way to close gap without augment

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1 час назад, (XB1)Demon Intellect сказал:

Dudes clearly not going to get it if he thinks shes useless, he probably thinks Mesa is garbage because you cant stay in peacemaker all day.

Ahem. The only problem Mesa have - her first ability. Outside of that she's a solid frame.

1 час назад, (XB1)Demon Intellect сказал:

Valkyr used to be able to maintain her 4 pretty much indefinitely

Yea, no. Before Update 13 killed her(melee 2.0) Hysteria was duration based. After hysteria rework and before the nerfs - yea...she was op. But I never was a fan of god mode.

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4 hours ago, Chewarette said:

I'm sorry but then you have to rework 39 Warframes. Yes, 39. Because none of them is useful as long as you have an Operator and a CL Dagger.

That isnt really what I said though. I dont even understand how you got to that completely ass backwards conclussion. I mean I'm mindblown atm at that comment.

My comparison was between CL and Hysteria, both being extremely bad and slow solutions to any encounter unless you get into absurdly high levels. They both just add pointless overkill damage in 99% of the content, 1 target at a time. In content where a regular melee approach would wipe out several times more enemies in the same timeframe.

My point is that Hysteria brings nothing useful to the table until you get very high up in the levels. Perma invulnerability is completely pointless, just as it was on Defy, the life leech is meaningless in most cases and the reach of her claws is so narrow it is silly. Her exalted weapon does nothing that a regular weapon based EW Valkyr cant do, which is surviving massive punishment and sustaining the health. The EW Valk will also have the bonus of being able to clear full rooms in a far shorter time than Hyst Valk.

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2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

My point is that Hysteria brings nothing useful to the table until you get very high up in the levels. Perma invulnerability is completely pointless, just as it was on Defy, the life leech is meaningless in most cases and the reach of her claws is so narrow it is silly. Her exalted weapon does nothing that a regular weapon based EW Valkyr cant do, which is surviving massive punishment and sustaining the health. The EW Valk will also have the bonus of being able to clear full rooms in a far shorter time than Hyst Valk.

And once again, Valkyr is not meant/supposed to be in permanent Hysteria state. Hysteria is supposed to be that oh-S#&$ button to tank incoming damage or heal yourself back to full. That's the intended design from DE, and it works hella fine.

Because even with eternal war / 3k armor / adaptation, you'll still take damage in the end. May it be 1 damage at a time, 800 times later you're low life. What are you supposed to do ? 4, heal yourself, go back to your regular Melee. Or as I said, if you know you'll take significant damage soon, you activate 4 to tank that peacefully.

I mean... Hysteria. HYSTERIA.

Anyway. Once again the main argument here is that Hysteria sucks for lvl 10- content. Like we give a damn. "Oh noes Hysteria sucks because it adds tons of overkill on the Earth while any random melee can do better". Yeah, no melee is useful in this game as Saryn and Equinox can definitely do better. Can we start talking about any relevant content ? I'm really happy having Hysteria to instantly remove an Eximus Nox from existence in Arbitrations. Or to heal myself without having to sit in Operator's Void Mode for 5 seconds. That's Hysteria's goal. It's not meant to be a permanent state.

You're all asking for a rework for whatever reason I still don't get, the only rework you'd ever get is a Baruuk-style rework, where taking damage increases a counter you get to spend Hysteria on. Which would be a lot more limited than what we have today, but I can guarantee this is the only rework DE can think about as of today as they love their "gauge-things" to replace Energy.

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12 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

enemies that players do not regularly face

That argument renders most abilities pointless.  Enemies that players "regularly face" are little challenge with a maxed Vitality and a decent weapon.

12 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

You need to actually explain your statement

Adaptation and the Umbral mods allow her to be nigh indestructible doing regular content and to go pretty far in arbitrations and such.  Throw on Endless War and go to town.  Hysteria if you get low health.  I'm a big fan of Natural Talent to pop into Hysteria for heals and to stun beefier enemies quickly.

12 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

You yourself fully admitted to not being a fan of the nerf.

Yeah I think it was pointless pandering that made her nigh unplayable for most players for a long time.

12 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

So I don't know why you're defending it

Because I accept that there are players that will never tolerate anything they view as "OP" and it kept what I think is a fun ability at least somewhat intact.  Better it be exclusive to maxed gear or used infrequently than having it removed entirely which is what you're advocating.

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3 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

That argument renders most abilities pointless.  Enemies that players "regularly face" are little challenge with a maxed Vitality and a decent weapon.

No, my argument included a specific enemy level and above.  Quoting like this misrepresents my argument as a whole.  Don't do this.

Quote

Adaptation and the Umbral mods allow her to be nigh indestructible doing regular content and to go pretty far in arbitrations and such.  Throw on Endless War and go to town.  Hysteria if you get low health.  I'm a big fan of Natural Talent to pop into Hysteria for heals and to stun beefier enemies quickly.

Your original reply to me stated that said mods "opens up" things for her.  I don't see how making her better at the thing she already does opens the doors to anything for her.  And i'm confused on how that would in anyway attempt to counter my point about her not doing enough as a melee frame.  Which has been my stance this entire time.

Quote

Yeah I think it was pointless pandering that made her nigh unplayable for most players for a long time.

Because I accept that there are players that will never tolerate anything they view as "OP" and it kept what I think is a fun ability at least somewhat intact.  Better it be exclusive to maxed gear or used infrequently than having it removed entirely which is what you're advocating.

The only people I know who think her 4 is "op" are people who dislike invincibility as a whole and increasing the drain didn't change anything for their view.  Also no, I didn't advocate for it's removal.  I suggested that they could potentially add a mechanic to temper said drain.  Which would make her kit feel more interactive and make the increased drain feel less...heavy handed.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Don't do this.

You ain't the boss of me.

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I don't see how making her better at the thing she already does opens the doors to anything for her.

Made her much more usable, which is what you were complaining about, no?

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

i'm confused on how that would in anyway attempt to counter my point about her not doing enough as a melee frame.

Which brings us back to what I was saying about a more straightforward kit.

10 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

The only people I know who think her 4 is "op" are people who dislike invincibility as a whole and increasing the drain didn't change anything for their view.

Well maybe you weren't around at the time, but they whined about it constantly and were plenty satisfied with her being relegated to nigh unplayable.  It's not just invincibility.  They get upset about all types of abilities at pretty much random.  Valkyr was somewhat unique actually.  Usually it's AOE that gets them all worked up.

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

no, I didn't advocate for it's removal

Well professing Nidus and Wukong to be superior alternatives when their abilities are much more limited sure made it sound like it.

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On 2019-06-20 at 8:57 AM, moostar95 said:

Hope for the best because vauban is getting his time real soon. 

I hope Pablo is also in charge of his rework. The guy is a wizard.

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9 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Ahem. The only problem Mesa have - her first ability. Outside of that she's a solid frame.

Yea, no. Before Update 13 killed her(melee 2.0) Hysteria was duration based. After hysteria rework and before the nerfs - yea...she was op. But I never was a fan of god mode.

So you argued with me because? You literally just confirmed what I said by trying to prove me wrong.

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7 hours ago, Chewarette said:

And once again, Valkyr is not meant/supposed to be in permanent Hysteria state. Hysteria is supposed to be that oh-S#&$ button to tank incoming damage or heal yourself back to full. That's the intended design from DE, and it works hella fine.

Because even with eternal war / 3k armor / adaptation, you'll still take damage in the end. May it be 1 damage at a time, 800 times later you're low life. What are you supposed to do ? 4, heal yourself, go back to your regular Melee. Or as I said, if you know you'll take significant damage soon, you activate 4 to tank that peacefully.

I mean... Hysteria. HYSTERIA.

Anyway. Once again the main argument here is that Hysteria sucks for lvl 10- content. Like we give a damn. "Oh noes Hysteria sucks because it adds tons of overkill on the Earth while any random melee can do better". Yeah, no melee is useful in this game as Saryn and Equinox can definitely do better. Can we start talking about any relevant content ? I'm really happy having Hysteria to instantly remove an Eximus Nox from existence in Arbitrations. Or to heal myself without having to sit in Operator's Void Mode for 5 seconds. That's Hysteria's goal. It's not meant to be a permanent state.

You're all asking for a rework for whatever reason I still don't get, the only rework you'd ever get is a Baruuk-style rework, where taking damage increases a counter you get to spend Hysteria on. Which would be a lot more limited than what we have today, but I can guarantee this is the only rework DE can think about as of today as they love their "gauge-things" to replace Energy.

That is your idea of Hysteria. Because it is very easy to build around and maintain it 24/7. Swapping in and out is pointless when you can already do what little it fullfills in other builds. Plus the animation time of it is so freakin slow it doesnt work well as an "oh S#&$!" button to begin with. The point of Hysteria is building a very durable valkyr without having to invest in health or other things. The problem is that the drawbacks are simply greater with the extremely short range aswell as the ever building self damage when you exit. It simply isnt suited for the "pop in, pop out" kinda deal because you need to wipe the area or find cover before exiting again incase the stack is high.

And this was all in regards to high level content, since you jumped in on a post where we talked about enemies in the level 150ish area. What kinda operator do you have that needs 5 seconds to heal to full? Plus I cant even recall the last time I used Hysteria outside of a full Hysteria build in higher content.

Also, what love for "gauge-things"? They introduced it on one single frame as of late, with Nidus being the first one.

edit: And another thing, she is based around berserkers, so your whole "Valkyr is not meant/supposed to be in permanent Hysteria state" is b and s. Hysteria is often one of those states that you simply cannot control for a given moment of time, much like how berserker rage went on either till their "friends" stopped them or they collapsed cos the body couldnt take any more.

 

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On 2019-06-20 at 3:06 AM, Chewarette said:

You're asking what Hysteria brings that is unique, while denying "invulnerability + insane life leech" is a thing.

Invulnerability+sustain isn't unique to Valkyr. Wisp does the same invulnerability+sustain thing, Wisp also buffs allies' movement/gun/melee speed, as well as provide HP and HP/S in place of armor, she even has CC that follows allies. She has her own movement ability, leaving the only thing Valk has that Wisp doesn't is an Exalted Weapon, but even then, people in favor of it only say it's useful for damage avoidance and to get back to full hp.

Being out shined also does not mean useless all around. All Warframes by default are "useful" for most of the game due to the low difficulty of most things, although with her current kit she is useless in any scenario where melee can't be used.

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On 2019-06-20 at 4:49 AM, NoLazyShadow said:

What I can say? Wukong rework is really good! I like it. He's still an immortal monkey with a stick, but now he's strong, useable and can rip and tear using all 4 skills. I can't say the same about Valkyr. She's forgoten, heavly outdated and in need of a rework for years. Half of her skillset is useless, she need at least 3 augments to be useable with all 4 skill. But now nobody gonna play her - we got another frame that do everything she could, but better. God damn it, DE, when you stop ignoring Valk and gave her love she deserve...

You don't change perfection, dude... Valkyr is a beast and should stay this way for all generations to behold and awe

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6 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

You ain't the boss of me.

Fine, please don't misquote my responses.  It misrepresents my position and in most instances makes me argue something else rather than the original point of said statement.

6 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Made her much more usable, which is what you were complaining about, no?

No, as I explained to the person I first quoted in this thread I don't think she's useless in the literal sense.  (as everything is viable.)  My problem which I stated in my last quote to you is I don't think she does enough.

6 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Which brings us back to what I was saying about a more straightforward kit.

You've lost me.  I actually can't follow this segment anymore.

6 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Well maybe you weren't around at the time, but they whined about it constantly and were plenty satisfied with her being relegated to nigh unplayable.  It's not just invincibility.  They get upset about all types of abilities at pretty much random.  Valkyr was somewhat unique actually.  Usually it's AOE that gets them all worked up.

Unsure on what people you're referring to here.  I might not have been around on the forums as long as you.  But from memory i've never heard any complaints about Valkyr in that sort of verbiage.  But from the way you write it that sounds like knee jerk response people.  Of which I wasn't talking about.

6 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

Well professing Nidus and Wukong to be superior alternatives when their abilities are much more limited sure made it sound like it.

I can see how my specific phrasing lets someone imply that.  But I corrected said conclusion.  So we don't need to continue this segment.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

My problem which I stated in my last quote to you is I don't think she does enough.

I think there's a place for frames that are more specialized.  She's in a decent place compared to a lot of frames and it seems pointless doing anything until after the melee rework.  Unless you want her not so focused on melee which is what I like about her.

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On 2019-06-20 at 2:49 AM, NoLazyShadow said:

What I can say? Wukong rework is really good! I like it. He's still an immortal monkey with a stick, but now he's strong, useable and can rip and tear using all 4 skills. I can't say the same about Valkyr. She's forgoten, heavly outdated and in need of a rework for years. Half of her skillset is useless, she need at least 3 augments to be useable with all 4 skill. But now nobody gonna play her - we got another frame that do everything she could, but better. God damn it, DE, when you stop ignoring Valk and gave her love she deserve...

Hysteria should work through the rift, maybe Rip-line should pull the enemies to the same plane as her too, Hysteria should revert to a duration skill if DE is so hellbent onto making her "not OP" (like with Ember, but we all know they are just sadistic.)

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Valkyr is absolutely fine for survival.

Really there's two ability that could use a little bit of update. Her 1st and 3rd.

And maybe make her a little bit more fluid. Like Wisp. Her ability casts always stop you for no good reason.

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You have no idea how many Valkyrs I see in Arbitrations, I guess "useless" is not the right term, or even close, to call her.

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