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(XB1)Nightseid

Ghost and ghouls. Nekros and revenant rework idea.

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36 minutes ago, mikakor said:

except it's not opinion. it's facts. your rework would not give him purpose anymore in gameplay, other than "fun" value, which in itself is highly subjective. you couldn't come back with anything because i described what you wanted to do, what were the consequences, and why it's absolutely ridiculous and should straight up go to another Warframe, at that point. leave Nekros alone, and create an actual necromancer Warframe. here, problem solved. you got your necromancer while we, players who actually knows Nekros, can keep him and avoid wrecking him.everyone is happy.

The purpose of a game is to have fun.

Outside of farming I see no purpose to having a nekros BUT I understand the utility that descreate brings hence why I didnt get rid of it in totality and moved it to a passive but at the cost of a lower drop rate chance since it would no longer uses energy or health. Freeing up nekros to do additional things.

My aim is to the keep elements that work but descreate is a double edge sword ability because it overshadows the rest of his kit, much like Defy overshadowed wukong's kit.

What If I were to add regular loot in the descreate passive and upped the drop rate 35% chance? Then it would be too powerful and overshadow other frames. Personally DE should do away with loot abilities and create them as an arcane or an aura the increase your loot chances for added or rare loot whenever you kill an enemy, so all players can enjoy farm with their favorite frames.

 

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8 hours ago, mikakor said:

Nekros is way more than just his 3

 

8 hours ago, mikakor said:

Nekros is not focused on being a mass summoner. He's a looter.

So he's more than just his 3, but you'll describe him as just his 3?

I love Nekros, not for farming but because I love having minions. I keep my ghosts up all the time because I like seeing my guys running around shooting the other guys and I can just hang back and pick off distracted enemies at my leisure. His 2 is okay but not very useful. His 3 is the only reason most players care about him. His 1 is terrible and I'd take nearly any replacement for it. And his 4 feels like it could be better but I can't say how.

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1 hour ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

 

And his 4 feels like it could be better but I can't say how.

I can!  Exalted Pet, some Death Knight, % of the mods on him go to the Shadows.  GG, you've got better scaling, and more useful Shadows.

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Made minor edit to soul familiar. So it sounds less like a channel ability - The ability now is soul punch but also causes a duration based healing spirit. 

Soul Familiar (replace Soul Punch) - Nekros enslaves the souls off an enemy for a short duration by delivering a powerful blow on a targeted an enemy causing them to eject their soul. Their soul will swirl around other nearby enemies draining their heath and healing Nekros and nearby allies (including Nekro’s Shadows) and curing any alignments. Downed allies will have their bleed timers extended. Enemies that survive the blast will their offensive and defensive capabilities greatly reduced. 

Synergy- use this to keep shadows and allies alive.

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Rename Soul Punch to Soul Slice: area slash damage with 100% proc chance.
Rename Soul Survivor to Soul Tormentor: +100% slash dmg to all attacks.
Profit.

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Not just any bump but a design I was toying with for revenant alternate helmet = demon head

eKOGWNy.jpg

Edited by (XB1)Nightseid
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Blood Magic would be between hell yes to brokenly good depending on where in the hp calc it got placed and if it took modded or base energy to account. But soul punch should stay as is (and have its knockdown vs knockback rules explained in tips properly/tell the damn people if you are running at a enemy at same or lower elevation and the enemy isnt right infront of something to collide with, its a short range/shockwave like single target knockdown; while from above/angling the soul into the ground or right into a wall at any sharp angle = super powered ragdoll that instantkills any enemy stuck in its ragdolled state or out of bounds). At most it could get the treatment that smite/reave/base dread mirror do of % hp damage. The true rework part of nekros should be a passive that isnt win more (lifesteal or hp per hit, that he could even share to allies in some form or another), letting one manipulate the shadow priority and ai from the arsenal screen (mandachord song style, only with a more simulacrum like ui) and crucially upping the 1, 2 and 4 augments into the modern era.

Soul Survivor giving the ally invul based on how much energy it used (and some effect vs enemies).
Creeping Terrify either getting baked in default at some 40% slow while letting it stack or at least have its condition duration part given back.
SoS should givetrue status and cc immunity/not let blast procs on allies (SUCH AS SHADOWS), some staggers, knockbacks and knockups/bounces do that to you OR even better, slotting it giving you the halo/iron skin like cc immunity as the passive effect with charges equal to souls you reaped/have stored for your 4 (like a pseudo inaros negating swarm only based on kills).

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On 2019-06-20 at 2:57 PM, (XB1)Nightseid said:

Revenant rework

  • Mesmer Skin (passive) - Revenant is enveloped in sentient energy, which redirects damage and stuns all enemies who attack him. Revenant receives a charge whenever he reaves a thrall.
  • Enthrall - convert a target into a Thrall for a short duration. Charging this ability will covert multiple enemies into thralls.
  • Reave (move to 2 slot) – the movement ability remains the same except whenever Reave passes thru a thrall it sacrifices, granting a charge. If Reave is charged, Revenant will sacrifice all thralls leeching health and shield and disintegrating enemies killed into pillars, each Thrall sacrificed will restore Mesmer skin.
  • Twisted Beast – sacrifice all thralls and summon an eidolon remnant (kubrow-like eidolon) for a short duration. The remnants power and defense will be based on the number of thralls sacrificed.

Big nope to both "reworks". Your changes are direct nerfs to both frames survivability, and you clearly have no idea how Revenant functions.

Mesmer skin is better than Iron Skin. You can recast it whenever you want, it's impossible for damage to leak through when charges are running low and any enemy that hits you gets stunned for 5 seconds which means they're as good as dead. Making it a passive is a straight up nerf. A stunned enemy costs no energy to convert into a thrall with his 1. An enemy converted into a thrall with his 1 converts other enemies into thralls simply by damaging them. Making it a charge mechanic is also a straight up nerf. Reave already restores mesmer charges when you use it on thralls. Using his 4 makes thralls explode in an AoE. The fire pillars aren't there to damage enemies who walk through them, they automatically fire souls at enemies because they're turrets. On top of that, his 4 adapts its damage to deal with different enemy types. Replacing that with a Kubrow is a joke, their AI is terrible. That entire rework idea is a badly thought out nerf to one of the best scaling frames in the game, and you obviously don't even realize it, as the things you're trying to add already exist in a better form than what you're suggesting.

By turning Nekros' 3 into a passive with a set chance and range, you nerf his survivability as well as destroy one of the only unique builds in the game. Despoil + Equilibrium + Health Conversion + Adaptation. Enemies drop a health orb, which you can always pick up since Despoil costs a bit of health, which gives you stacks of armor thanks to Health Conversion, which gets DR added on top of it since you have a constant flow of health to burn, and Equilibrium restores your energy while making sure that orbs also count for triggering Health Conversion. Gutting that kills long survival runs and Kuva Survival especially.

Nekros doesn't need a rework, and Revenant absolutely doesn't need a rework, especially one thats a poorly thought out nerf due to someone not understanding how he works.

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Changed rework passive to be blood magic - nekros abilities cost health not energy with enemies having 50% of dropping addition health orbs.

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On 2019-06-20 at 1:57 PM, (XB1)Nightseid said:

Here a couple reworks ideas regarding I favorite would-be summoner frames that doesn't overhaul the kit...well maybe. A little.

 V3

Nekros rework

  • Blood Magic (passive) – Nekros' abilities cost health instead of energy. Enemies have a 50% chance of dropping a health orb in addition to other loot within Nekro’s presence (affinity range).
  • Soul Familiar (replace Soul Punch) - Nekros casts 2 familiars to ravage enemies for a short duration. These familiars will leech health of other nearby enemies healing Nekros and nearby allies (including Nekro’s Shadows) and curing any alignments. Downed allies will have their bleed timers extended.
  • Dark Command (moved from my Revenant rework concept) – Mark a target. If the target selected is an enemy, it will receive a debuff that amplifies damage target receives; if the target is an ally they will receive a buff that amplifies healing regeneration. If shadows or soul familiars are active they will concentrate attacks on target or protect the target. Charging Dark Command will cause the shadows to rush the target and explode; if the target is an ally the explosion will be a heal burst.
  • Terrify – cast fear into the hearts of enemies, causing them to run away in Terror.
  • Shadows of the Dead – summons shadows of vanquished foes to fight alongside Nekros.

Augment ideas-

  • Waking Nightmare (Terrify) – enemies affected by terrify also receive radiation damage.

Minion AI

Shadows – will seek to engage and destroy the targets with the lowest effective health unless they are in close range to another enemy, basically fighting trash mobs first, leaving Nekros to deal with heavy hitters.

Rework thoughts:

Shadows synergies. Healed by 1. Directly controlled by 2. Effectiveness also increased by 2.

The goal of the rework is aligning Nekros towards being an effective minion master – using enemy souls to heal shadows and allies. Then command a small army to concentrate fire upon a cursed enemy.

++++

Revenant rework

  • Mesmer Skin (passive) - Revenant is enveloped in sentient energy, which redirects damage and stuns all enemies who attack him. Revenant receives a charge whenever he reaves a thrall.
  • Enthrall - convert a target into a Thrall for a short duration. Charging this ability will covert multiple enemies into thralls.
  • Reave (move to 2 slot) – the movement ability remains the same except whenever Reave passes thru a thrall it sacrifices, granting a charge. If Reave is charged, Revenant will sacrifice all thralls leeching health and shield and disintegrating enemies killed into pillars, each Thrall sacrificed will restore Mesmer skin.
  • Twisted Beast – sacrifice all thralls and summon an eidolon remnant (kubrow-like eidolon) for a short duration. The remnants power and defense will be based on the number of thralls sacrificed.

ae7XIh5.jpg

  • Danse Macabre – erupt with a multitude of beams and sweep a circle of death around revenant. Remains the same.

Rework thoughts

Revenant’s minions are now a resource gain Mesmer charges or summon a Twisted Beast. Mesmer skin is a passive, so Revenant needs to work towards becoming invincibility like Nidus’ mutation stacks.

added. 

Revenant is missing something, I could not articulate it before but with all of revenant's synergies I simply feel he is missing a big payoff. This is why I re-worked Revenant in the manner that I did in order to make thralls a more versatile resource while trying to keep his favored functionality.

Honestly I feel we should work for our immortality and not simply press 2 to get up to 14 free Mesmer charges and recast whenever we feel like. I mean what's the point of reave if I can simply recast Mesmer skin (healing is too weak for any real benefit). So my rework he loses instant immortality and has to cast enthrall first and decide whether he will sacrifice thralls for Mesmer charges via holding reave, heal via tapping reave, gain overshield via danse macabre or summon a temporary DPS companion via a new ability. 

Previous ability versions

  Reveal hidden contents

Nekros

Soul Punch – a blow so powerful, it turns the enemies soul in a deadly projectile. On charge, short range 180 degree blast that affects multiple enemies.

Soul Siphon – (channeling) drain an enemy’s health to restore Nekro’s energy. If an enemy is killed they become a shadow copy of that enemy or whenever an enemy dies Nekros gain energy conversion for a short duration.

++++ 

Revenant

Mesmer Skin (passive) – Revenant is enveloped in sentient energy, each charge makes Revenant resistant to most damage. Whenever Revenant uses an ability it consumes a Mesmer charge. Mesmer charges return over a period of 10 secs.

Enthrall – convert a target into a thrall, which converts others into thralls – each thrall consumes a Mesmer charge. Charging this ability will destroy all active thralls (explode) and restore Mesmer charges.

Command – Select a target for your thralls to either attack or protect. Thralls will sacrifice themselves in order to heal a targeted ally.

 

V2

  Reveal hidden contents

Nekros rework concept

  • Desecrate (Passive): fallen enemies or corpses have a 25% chance of dropping support loot (health, energy, life support or ammo) in Nekro’s presence.
  • Soul Familiar (replace Soul Punch) - Target an enemy and enslave their soul for a short time. Their soul will swirl around other nearby enemies draining their heath and healing Nekros and nearby allies (including Nekro’s Shadows) and curing any alignments. Downed allies will have their bleed timers extended.

>>Soul Familiar works like Mesa’s Shooting Gallery except the amount healed is based off the targeted enemy’s health

  • Soul Siphon - (channeling) drain an enemy's health to restore Nekro's energy. Channeling this ability stores energy that increases his power strength for a short duration and the damage of his shadows. If an enemy is killed, they become a shadow copy of that enemy. Nekros is invulnerable when channeling this ability.
  • Terrify – cast fear into the hearts of enemies, causing them to run away in Terror.
  • Shadows of the Dead – summons shadows of vanquished foes to fight alongside Nekros.

Augment ideas-

  • Waking Nightmare (Terrify) – enemies affected by terrify also receive radiation damage.
  • Despoil (aka Blood Magic [passive augment: Exilus]) – up to 100% of your max energy capacity is converted into health; abilities now cost health instead of energy

Minion AI

Shadows – will seek to engage and destroy the targets with the lowest effective health unless they are in close range to another enemy, basically fighting trash mobs first, leaving Nekros to deal with heavy hitters.

My Rework thoughts:

I kept Nekros relatively the same except enhancing his energy pool. I moved desecrate to the passive slot and made soul siphon in to an energy version of Inaros’ Devour ability – truthfully it makes more sense for the shadow copy to come from Nekros than Inaros anyway, Nekros needs another summon ability. Regarding desecrate I wished Desecrate was more than simply a loot ability, I wished it did something else and increasing loot gains was an after-effect. I feel Desecrate hampers Nekros in that same manner that (old) Defy hampered Wukong – restricting him to the farmer frame. It would not be so bad if desecrate sole purpose wasn’t to gain extra loot.

add:: I went ahead and tried to add a way for Nekros to keep his shadows alive longer without having to recast.

++++

Revenant rework

  • Mesmer Skin (passive) - Revenant is enveloped in sentient energy, each charge makes Revenant resistant to most damage. Revenant receive a charge for every active thrall.
  • Enthrall - convert a target into a Thrall for a short duration. Charging this ability will covert multiple enemies into thralls.
  • Command - Select a target for your thralls to either attack or protect. If the target selected is an enemy it will receive a debuff that amplifies damage target receives; if the target is an ally they will receive a buff that amplifies healing regeneration. Charging this ability will cause the thralls to rush the target and explode; if the target is an ally the explosion will be a heal burst. Target marking will work even if no thralls are active.
  • Reave- Dash through enemies leeching shields and health.
  • Danse Macabre – erupt with a multitude of beams and sweep a circle of death around revenant.

Minion AI

Thralls AI – I envision thralls as insane when left to their own vices wildly going after anything until Revenant focuses them.to a single target. For concentrated fire power.

Rework thoughts –I moved Mesmer skin has the passive as I feel it would be interesting to utilize the charges of Mesmer skin as a mechanic. Each charge of Mesmer skin increases Revenants defenses; at full charge revenant can resist up to 85% incoming damage but every thrall consumes a Mesmer charge and lowers Revenants resistance to damage. So why use enthrall? Enter the new slot 2 ability: Command. The purpose of this ability is to simply control the thralls to concentrate DPS on a single target until the targets death or until a new target is selected; If an ally is selected then the thralls will stay within 5 to 10 meters of shielding ally from enemy fire and fire back on enemies that target the ally – if the ally is low on health then thralls will sacrifice themselves in order to save restore its health. Revenants other abilities are fine as is.

Add:: tweaked to make his thralls the principle mechanic that fuels Rev's defenses and offense. Each Thrall equals a Mesmer skin charge which equals a damage resistance point.

9

 

I will not comment on Revenant as I haven't bothered to obtain him, however as a Nekros main I will mostly disagree with you.

The passive could be improved but, I think what it needs is more of a range buff to the passive instead of a rework.This way Nekros can have more staying power while not having to be in the heat of battle to get it.

While soul punch is not his most powerful ability, it doesn't have to be. At least for how I play him, I only need it to knock enemies (such as Shield Lancers) off balance.
If any change would be needed to be done to that ability, change it so that it does true damage to enemies.

I will admit, Terrify was an ability that I thought needed a rework, however lately I feel that it doesn't need changes. The reason for this is that it synergizes very well with the Despoil and Equilibrium mods. If you are low on health, you can use Terrify to burn off energy and use the energy orbs to recover health. Any enemies that run from you due to Terrify is just an added bonus.

As for Desecrate, It is in a good spot. It gives Nekros good team support, is great for helping with resource grinds, makes weapons that have poor ammo economy such as Soma, Gorgon, or Quellor to be more viable, and allows him to be more tanky and aggressive than his armor rating would suggest.

Shadows of the Dead is where the majority of the tankiness for Nekros lies. The Shadows themselves can assist in taking care of enemies and with Shield of Shadows equipped they become damage sponges allowing him to last longer. Also this synergizes with desecrate to drop free health orbs on death, allowing him to survive longer, get his energy back and bring up more shadows.

For me Nekros is in a good spot and there are warframes (glares at Hydroid and Chroma) that need a rework far more than it does.

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The only nekros skill worth changing is his 1 and maybe his passive his other 3 skills are excellent and need no change

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Hi OP in my opinion Nekros' 3 and 4 are really fine but his 1 and 2 are nearly defunct.  How would you make them do what he does better? 

I like your 2 idea with radiation and fear & confusion.

I'd like to see a "haste" buff for the minions here too(2).

I'd like to see some utility built into his one for buffing minions or raising players revisited. Maybe like Ash's ability to aim blade storm I'd like to see a version where Nekros can give his minions a target to focus/debuff. More minion management and buffing.

I think if you mess with his fundamental tank and life support roll as people understand him,it would anger too many Nekros main players. 

Pretty sure his 2 Strips armor too if I remember right. I just think it should of had a synergising effect on Shadows too. 

Voodoo, Necromancer, guy needs more poison/buff/debuff going on.

If charging his (1) locked a target and set it as priority target for minions with a 1 point true damage toxin/bleed. (+Slow motion ethereal flames) 

And his targeting cones for Soul Punch should be increased especially for Soul Survivor(?) The medic Res augment. 

Scotts buffing magnetic damage last I heard, so Nekros' 2 might get a lift along with Mag and Hydroid if the tides right.

Edited by WarRelic

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In my humble opinion I am not a fan of loot abilities and the descreate ability as it works now should be a warframe aura mod, so every frame has the opportunity to be a farm frame. 

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Kinda weird to be bumping this for about a year now.  But whatever, I'll bite.

1.  Just get rid of the loot farming imo.  Even though he has one of the most used farming frames, and Nekros Prime is constantly being given away for free on Twitch Prime, and other events.  He is still only smack dab in the middle of popularity.  And because he is constantly being given away, and the fact he is one of the main farming frames, I don't think he will seriously get looked at.

2.  I like Soul Familiar, I think it is a cool replacement.

3.  I don't like Dark Command, it is either too boring by just using its basics, and I'd hate to suicide my shadows.

4.  Terrify is still a crappy ability imo, I'd rather have something that is more useful other than niche situations.  And more fun to use.

5.  I still believe Shadows of the Dead needs an overhaul, as it is now, it doesn't do anything other than add some meat shields.

I personally want a more DPS oriented Nekros.  I don't want a Nekros that is just tanky, and you just use your guns for everything else.

As I've said before, add an Exalted Pet (Death Knight or something edgy), and a % of the mods on him get extended to your shadows.  Which will help them actually be useful, and scale well.

Then make one of the abilities cause the Exalted Pet to dash/teleport to an area, and do a wide swing with his melee weapon.  Hold it, and teleport the entire army to that location.  Nekros DEFINITELY needs more control over his army.

And, to be able to get a menu that allows you personally to add whatever priorities you want for shadows, would be great.  I'd also love it if we could get say, 4 shadows that we can permanently lock in to a slow (But can't use duplicates, and they scale with the highest level shadow you obtained that mission).  Maybe we can only unlock them after killing them so many times or something.  Make it a hunt quest for the best enemies, I would enjoy it anyways.

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