Revenant needs tweaks!

[Ramflare]

Wukong's rework has highlighted 2 issues that make revenant feel horribly janky compared to other frames with similar ability sets

1.  Casting time on all abilities is really slow and stop all movement, natural talent only just makes this bearable.
   1. Even Reave has a short but jarring delay before it starts which is odd for a movement ability
2.  Danse macabre cannot hit enemies on a slight incline making it the worst damage ability for open worlds and anything not a tight corridor. Needs an aiming mechanic to tilt lasers up/down.
   1.  An augment to focus his lasers into a single aim-able death beam would be my preference.

Mesmer skin is a great ability aside from casting time though. A less important issue is that thralls aren't massively useful but they can be pretty fun, we might just need more of them.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Ramflare

[JohnLemon123]

Reve... Who? 

Oh! You mean that guy DE forgot about halfway through fixing him, and who's still riddled with 4 month old bugs that made him somehow worse? 

Yeah, his cast times are horrible, Reave is slow and can't decide whether it wants to be movement, damage or utility, Enthrall is basically worthless, 2 makes half his kit pointless, and his 4 costs far too much for what it does. We know. 

Unfortunately, Revenant is not bad enough that he warrants attention from DE , despite essentially having only 2 abilities, as those two are fairly OK. He's a mess, yeah, but he... Works? 

Edited June 20, 2019 by JohnLemon123

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Correction, he needs a completely rework from the ground up. Everything but his 4 is some of the worst designed and useless abilities in the game.

[Madway7]

19 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Correction, he needs a completely rework from the ground up. 

Hope Pablo does this after they rework Vauban and Ember

[Sharkgoblin]

 STOP KILLING MY ENTHRALLED TARGETS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Mu_Gera]

It would be great to not have rev just spin around but I feel like they might be averted to allowing danse to be aim-able sense it would overshadow wisps sol gate. Otherwise, the least amount of work do to fix it is improve it's damage adaptation, make the base damage radiation, and make the status chance mod-able.

23 minutes ago, Sharkgoblin said:

 STOP KILLING MY ENTHRALLED TARGETS 

Cause of the way the thrall mechanics work, you're better off manually spamming thralls anyways.

[JohnLemon123]

1 hour ago, -Bv-Concarne said:

It would be great to not have rev just spin around but I feel like they might be averted to allowing danse to be aim-able sense it would overshadow wisps sol gate. Otherwise, the least amount of work do to fix it is improve it's damage adaptation, make the base damage radiation, and make the status chance mod-able.

Cause of the way the thrall mechanics work, you're better off manually spamming thralls anyways.

funny thing is, they already had a solution to the revenant hydron raves figured out, in the form of none other than ember :

what pretty much destroyed her 4 would easily make revenant's waaaay better. Wanna spin around at low level and clear a group of trash mobs for a few seconds? sure, activate the ability, and maintain it for only that long. But if you NEED it to be stronger, and NEED it to be active for longer, why not just give it the very same ''escalating damage'' property, doubling the damage, status chance and energy drain after 5 seconds ?

that way, the ability doesn't cost an arm and a leg just because you wanted to clear a few enemies with it (it's actually somehow more expensive than peacemakers now, which is just gross), and once it indeed DOES become overpriced as all hell, it can actually back its costs, as you'll get an ability that costs 25 energy per second, but has a base damage of 2500 per laser (of which there are nine) and a status chance of 40%, never mind it's ability to boost itself for even more damage, even more status and even more energy !

Edited June 21, 2019 by JohnLemon123

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Fun fact, they still have not fixed the bigs with the pillars spawned by his first ability.

They still deal no contact damage when not host and still get destroyed by gun fire sometimes.

At this point i have no hope for revenant.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Rev is a great frame... Fun... Powerful... No complaints. Vauban needs a rework.

[JohnLemon123]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Rev is a great frame...

Not when half of his kit is made irrelevant by a single ability.

41 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Fun...

Not when all of his synergies are linked to an ability that you barely have any control over, and one that's also at the mercy of your team, who won't (and shouldn't have to) care about it.

41 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Powerful... 

Revenant's 2 is pretty alright, and his 4 is okay. that's it. 1 is awful, and 3 barely even does anything unless you use it with his 4. yes, it's ''synergies'' with his 1 sound good, but since thralls on average have the life expectancy of a terminally ill 100 year-old, it might as well not be mentioned.

41 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

No complaints. Vauban needs a rework.

remember how, over a year ago, people were already clamoring for a vauban rework ? remember how instead of working on that, they reworked saryn, a frame who was fine (if dull) THREE GODDAMN TIMES ? i do. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by JohnLemon123

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

4 hours ago, JohnLemon123 said:

Not when half of his kit is made irrelevant by a single ability.

Not when all of his synergies are linked to an ability that you barely have any control over, and one that's also at the mercy of your team, who won't (and shouldn't have to) care about it.

Revenant's 2 is pretty alright, and his 4 is okay. that's it. 1 is awful, and 3 barely even does anything unless you use it with his 4. yes, it's ''synergies'' with his 1 sound good, but since thralls on average have the life expectancy of a terminally ill 100 year-old, it might as well not be mentioned.

remember how, over a year ago, people were already clamoring for a vauban rework ? remember how instead of working on that, they reworked saryn, a frame who was fine (if dull) THREE GODDAMN TIMES ? i do. 

Saryn is better than ever. Revs kit is great. I use it all... The whole thing. He doesn't need any rework.

[JohnLemon123]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Saryn is better than ever. Revs kit is great. I use it all... The whole thing. He doesn't need any rework. 

Well, since your opinion clearly accounts for every single warframe player on the entire planet, I guess you're right!

Because you choose to make use of his pathetic 1 and 3 doesn't make them good. I could play vauban for 2 hours doing nothing but spamming teslas and bounces, and claim them to just be ''misunderstood god-tier endgame abilities'', and that vauban clearly doesn't need any help. Would that make me right? No. Would it make me feel like in right? Probably. 

Please stop defending the indefensible. There is absolutely NOTHING of worth to either his passive, his thralls or his reave, and that's a pretty damn widespread opinion. Any success revenant provides derives from pressing 2 to not die, followed by pressing 4 when something needs to die. By all means, waste your energy creating awful minions that'll die instantly, or waste 50 energy to do what recasting 2 does, but way worse, be my guest. That won't make it any less terrible, which it is. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

45 minutes ago, JohnLemon123 said:

Well, since your opinion clearly accounts for every single warframe player on the entire planet, I guess you're right!

Because you choose to make use of his pathetic 1 and 3 doesn't make them good. I could play vauban for 2 hours doing nothing but spamming teslas and bounces, and claim them to just be ''misunderstood god-tier endgame abilities'', and that vauban clearly doesn't need any help. Would that make me right? No. Would it make me feel like in right? Probably. 

Please stop defending the indefensible. There is absolutely NOTHING of worth to either his passive, his thralls or his reave, and that's a pretty damn widespread opinion. Any success revenant provides derives from pressing 2 to not die, followed by pressing 4 when something needs to die. By all means, waste your energy creating awful minions that'll die instantly, or waste 50 energy to do what recasting 2 does, but way worse, be my guest. That won't make it any less terrible, which it is. 

Actually... Vauban with 40 power strength and good duration/range... Plus Bastille augment is god-tier. Most people don't realize how absolutely perfect Vauban is. That build right there has better cc capabilities than even khora... And thats saying something. I inly mentioned a rework for Vauban, because DE us in fact working on a rework for Vauban.

The only thing Vauban really meeds is more survivability.

The only thing Rev needs is a deluxe skin...

But i digress.

[m0b1us1]

20 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Actually... Vauban with 40 power strength and good duration/range... Plus Bastille augment is god-tier. Most people don't realize how absolutely perfect Vauban is. That build right there has better cc capabilities than even khora... And thats saying something. I inly mentioned a rework for Vauban, because DE us in fact working on a rework for Vauban.

The only thing Vauban really meeds is more survivability.

The only thing Rev needs is a deluxe skin...

But i digress.

I would love to see a delux skin. But at the same time there are very obvious major issues with rev.

A few examples...

His 1. Thralls can spread and make new thralls, up to 7 max. Nothing bad looking at just that. However, the mechanics when they die are extremely counter productive. If one dies, it leaves behind a pillar that can kill other thralls, but can't make new ones. So it acts as a way for the ability to cut itself short. If you or your allies kill them, then you get almost inconsequential rewards for it. And some of these "rewards" are 50 overshields... which goes into the next issue.

Get overshields, when your passive is dependent on you losing all your shields (imagine nova with her passive and an ability that makes her immune to knock downs) and your 2 stops you from taking damage from enemies. So those overshields basically block an incredibly few sources of damage when you have your 2 up and basically make your passive come into effect less often. Imagine if Mesa's passive only worked if you didn't have a primary weapon instead of a melee, but her 1st ability stayed the same. Similar scenario here.

Three can deal a lot of damage to thralls, but there are so many frames that can deal far far more damage to far more enemies with far less effort. Sure it can heal as well, but your 2 stops the enemies from being able to deal direct damage. So this is a redundancy.

Four... well it's just alright. It eats up energy, for rather poor damage. Sure it can deal with trash ok, but it consumes a ton of energy, has a wonky targeting mechanic, and completely locks you out from being able to jump, roll, anything other than move. To fuel such abilities, it's important to have a reliable way to regen energy. Which rev could have with something like rage, but his 2 blocks damage done from enemies. So you have to rely on zenurik and energy orbs. Unlike wisp who's abilities don't get in the way of each other at all. Her 1 can give her large amounts of health and regen to the point where you could run a bulkier wisp and make full use of rage, which makes fueling energy into her 4 much easier to do coupled with how cheap it is compared to rev 4. Even rev 4 makes the cc from 1 useless as it will kill thralls just as quickly as enemies making you have to stop and get more thralls. 

It's almost as if rev's abilities, despite having built in synergies, are counter productive to each other in gameplay.

[JohnLemon123]

1 hour ago, m0b1us1 said:

It's almost as if rev's abilities, despite having built in synergies, are counter productive to each other in gameplay.

See this? That's exactly what (personally) irks me the most about revenant's current state. You have all this text, all these built-in synergies, the ability to steal shields and health from enemies, the ability to generate overshields, a knockdown passive, and a theoretically amazing ''retaliation'' effect built into his 4, but none of them EVER matter due to how his 2 works. On top of that, BECAUSE of how said 2 works, it itself is way weaker than it could be, as it melts really quickly under sustained fire. 

But there's a very simple, very effective solution to that problem, one that I've seen suggested a bunch of times before: make his 2 prevent damage to his health... But NOT his shields. Increase its energy cost, decrease the base number of charges, replace his passive with a weaker adaptation, and he'd be one hell of a lot less confused, significantly more harmonious, and closer to his theme. He'd also be stronger, but not incredibly so. 

[Azvalk]

Il y a 21 heures, JohnLemon123 a dit :

make his 2 prevent damage to his health... But NOT his shields.

Yep '-'
 

Il y a 21 heures, JohnLemon123 a dit :

Increase its energy cost, decrease the base number of charges,

°-° what ? no, please xD

 

Il y a 21 heures, JohnLemon123 a dit :

replace his passive with a weaker adaptation

hm.. why not..

I main Revenant since its release and I'm perfectly fine with it '-'
But.. I agree I will be happy to see some tweak..
I don't like when I hear that something is useless, but his current passive is. The only way it could be usefull, is by tweaking Mesmer skin, to only protect health. And, maybe the damage of the passive, should depend on the quantity of shield lost in the last 10-20 seconds, that could make some use of the overshield building mecanic.
And don't forget the range <.<

Reave definitively needs a much faster start, and also, not be affected by gravity.
You've tried using reave after using all the duration of aim glide, when you are hight in the sky, on fortuna for exemple ? You simply fall..

One little suggestion: why not, enthrall ennemies, with Reave, if one of our thrall has been touched by reave just before in the process ?

The thing I can't understand about Rev, is why his 4 destroy the pillars ? For cleaning ? for performance ?
It could be better if the 4 force the spawning of new stronger projectiles from the pillars, and set them to explode 3-5sec later.
( Even if these pillars have already launched some projectiles )
And, the channeled version, immediately destroy the pillars, but each one release massive amount of projectiles and maybe a wider explosion. no ?

It's true that without natural talent, Enthrall is realy "meh"..
So, to counter that, I suggest an addition to the ability, charge it ( like nezha 2), to affect entire group of ennemies, in a rectangular zone..( nidus 1 )

For mesmer skin, I'm 100% for the suggestion of protecting only the health, but, I think this could hurt the overshield building mecanic..
So, I suggest that mesmer skin only protect health, but, with a charged cast, with bigger energy cost, it will protect the shield like it actualy does. This way, we take our time to build our overshield, and when charged are depleted, or when we want, we simply cast to protect our health, and we have a big "eidolon" shield than can do correct damage with the tweaked passive I suggested, or be usefull if the passive is changed for "adaptation".

[(PSN)DARK_WIZARD999]

On 2019-06-21 at 2:39 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Rev is a great frame... Fun... Powerful... No complaints. Vauban needs a rework.

Another "everything is fine, stop complaining" poster. No, Revenant is not fine. He is a big mess. I've played him since he came out, its design is not the only thing that needs a complete rework. He's not an eidealon, and he's not a Vampire. He's a sad mishmash of both, yet neither. Only Mesmer skin is useful, but the corpus shred through that like nothing. Reave is okay, but their are mods that do that better. The rest of his abilities are completely overshadowed by virtually anything in this game. What good is making slaves in a game where you need to kill those mobs instead? Like an Eidelon, Revenant should be a walking rave machine, firing weird lasers and knocking things back with ground pounds. Almost none of the frames are "fine" and need retuning to keep relevant. Like Nyx for example. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DARK_WIZARD999 said:

Another "everything is fine, stop complaining" poster. No, Revenant is not fine. He is a big mess. I've played him since he came out, its design is not the only thing that needs a complete rework. He's not an eidealon, and he's not a Vampire. He's a sad mishmash of both, yet neither. Only Mesmer skin is useful, but the corpus shred through that like nothing. Reave is okay, but their are mods that do that better. The rest of his abilities are completely overshadowed by virtually anything in this game. What good is making slaves in a game where you need to kill those mobs instead? Like an Eidelon, Revenant should be a walking rave machine, firing weird lasers and knocking things back with ground pounds. Almost none of the frames are "fine" and need retuning to keep relevant. Like Nyx for example. 

I lobe rev as he is. I'd understand a rework if he couldn't handle 150+ enemies relatively easy... Plus playing him is very fun.

This thread is based on opinion. The op's opinion is different than mine. Each to their own, however i love rev as is. 

[yles9056]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

I'd understand a rework if he couldn't handle 150+ enemies relatively easy... 

It's not really about whether he can handle 150+ enemies or not. His abilities are just weird in many aspects.

When I got Revenant, I immediately noticed the slow cast speed on all his abilities. I tried using all +cast speed mods, but they are still rather clunky.

[JohnLemon123]

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

I lobe rev as he is. I'd understand a rework if he couldn't handle 150+ enemies relatively easy... Plus playing him is very fun.

This thread is based on opinion. The op's opinion is different than mine. Each to their own, however i love rev as is. 

Because you're fine with things as they are doesn't mean you should simply ignore the opinions and arguments of those who disagree with you:

-''I think this thing needs to be better''

-''yeah, I also think this thing could use some help''

-''no, it's fine as is, leave it alone...''

-''okay, here's a list of reasons detailing why it's not good''

-''but it's fine...''

-''it really isn't''

-''but it is... ''

See what I mean? Hell, this thread wasn't even about changing revenant's abilities from the ground up, it was just about (god forbid) making his cast times more reasonable and fluid, as cloud walker makes reave feel about as manoeuvrable as a pickup truck, which doesn't work with 2019 warframe. 

Why the hell are so many people opposed to buffs or QOL changes? What horse do you have in this race? What do you, what does Anyone lose from things getting improved? I could understand people jumping to the defense of their main when someone speaks of nerfing, but this? Why? 

Edited June 24, 2019 by JohnLemon123

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

This thread is based on opinion. The op's opinion is different than mine. Each to their own, however i love rev as is. 

Would you still love Rev if DE nerfed Energize?

Would you still love Rev if DE fixed that self damage bug he has? 

Those are my suspicions. 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

12 hours ago, JohnLemon123 said:

Because you're fine with things as they are doesn't mean you should simply ignore the opinions and arguments of those who disagree with you:

-''I think this thing needs to be better''

-''yeah, I also think this thing could use some help''

-''no, it's fine as is, leave it alone...''

-''okay, here's a list of reasons detailing why it's not good''

-''but it's fine...''

-''it really isn't''

-''but it is... ''

See what I mean? Hell, this thread wasn't even about changing revenant's abilities from the ground up, it was just about (god forbid) making his cast times more reasonable and fluid, as cloud walker makes reave feel about as manoeuvrable as a pickup truck, which doesn't work with 2019 warframe. 

Why the hell are so many people opposed to buffs or QOL changes? What horse do you have in this race? What do you, what does Anyone lose from things getting improved? I could understand people jumping to the defense of their main when someone speaks of nerfing, but this? Why? 

Because your not fine with the way things are doesn't mean you should simply ignore my opinion on how i love him as is... 😏

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

11 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Would you still love Rev if DE nerfed Energize?

Would you still love Rev if DE fixed that self damage bug he has? 

Those are my suspicions. 

I dont use energize. I use arcane barrier and arcane aegis... Dont have energy issues... Use zenurik if i do

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

I dont use energize. I use arcane barrier and arcane aegis... Dont have energy issues... Use zenurik if i do

And how about that self damage immunity "bug"? I'm calling it a bug because those properties seem rather odd for any warframe. Also, because you didn't address that in your response.

Seems like something DE should "fix". Would that warp your opinion of Revenant as a frame?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

And how about that self damage immunity "bug"? I'm calling it a bug because those properties seem rather odd for any warframe. Also, because you didn't address that in your response.

Seems like something DE should "fix". Would that warp your opinion of Revenant as a frame?

Im ok with it... Ive never cone across that bug. So whatever