Can we have a talk about the garbage that is Kuva Survival?

[AzureTerra]

Kuva is a nice bonus for doing a Mission i like on a great tileset.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

2 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Oh no someone disagrees with you. What a huge tragedy!

Read his username. It's a joke.

[JackHargreav]

Just now, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

Read his username. It's a joke.

Yep. Noticed. Just after I wrote the comments. Whatever... Not the first time I don't get joke.

[Rhalick0]

11 hours ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

Kuva and riven rolls are like free loot boxes in a way. You always get better stats, just not the ones You personally want. In that regard, you want game breaking God-rolls, grind for it. No exceptions.

game-breaking? why would DE allow us to break their game? what are you saying

[Lazframe]

First of all thanks for the reply, means this is something felt among other players and I appreciate the fact that you're otssing ideas on how to improve it.
I repeat, I do not complain about Rivens, Kuva or DE. My point is that the Kuva Survival mission Taveuni (I simply talk about this particular mission) is a mess. Imagine going into it with how it's supposed to be, so without kuva booster and kavat and get out of 1 hour of farming 2 kuva rolls on your riven. This is insanity. Add to that the fact that you will havea  chance to randomly get kicked out of the mission for no reason whatsoever (yeah, this is a common problem to a lot of people) and you drive people to madness. And yet we see HOW SIMPLE it would be to make it 100000x better with the ideas you guys have been sharing in this post.

I hope we can spread some will to change it to DE as well since, right now, Rivens have been a huge goal for veterans and, personally, I feel rewarded when I achieve an amazing roll for my favorite weapon, and it only pushes me to continue. What stops me from doing it is the excruciating pain required to get one.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

19 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

Terrible rng isn't necessary to make something a heavy time sink, it is simply an extremely lazy way of creating time sinks.

No, it's a free gamble to get something you think is better than the roll you got. You work to  re-roll because you want better benefits. It isn't terrible rng because you didn't get what you wanted. That's a personal preference. All you. 100% you. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

No, it's not. How many rolls per weapon do you think you should get for a chance to create an extra OP weapon? It's a mechanic meant to have a resource that's difficult to use repeatedly and it should be. You don't DESERVE it, you earn it.

[Lutesque]

4 hours ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

You don't DESERVE it, you earn it.

Uhm.... its RNG.... neither of those things is true.... you get lucky.... pure and simple.... Derserving and Earning is nit a factor.

Anyway I just want to repeat myself again. Don't Roll Rivens with the intent of selling them.... I feel like this is where alot of the complaints about Kuva come from.... people are trying to get god roles with the intent of selling them for 2000+ Platinum... naturally this sort of external motivation is not enough to sustain a grind this bad....

Its really not worth it.... 

Get a riven for a weapon you Love.... then role that one... with the intent of keeping and using that riven for yourself.... 

 

[Kyronz]

mode ain't worth the bother.   DE just sucks hard core at time investment versus reward, they are just incompetent at it.

[TeaHawk]

On 2019-06-21 at 8:03 PM, YoshixInfinite said:

What'd work best for me is to have a 'Full' Roll where every stat is randomized, and a 'precise' roll, where you choose one stat to randomize.

That would be simply amazing. It will allow you to properly customize and design your rivens, instead "GOD PLS FFS This time ohs shi~~~~"

 

[Nerf_SupYo]

On 2019-06-26 at 4:15 AM, Kyronz said:

mode ain't worth the bother.   DE just sucks hard core at time investment versus reward, they are just incompetent at it.

The "return on investment" for time spent farming kuva is pretty terrible, but that isn't true across the board. Cracking relics in fissures and selling the prime drops is reliably profitable. Farming arcanes on eidolon hunts and selling them can deliver more platinum than most of us have any idea what to do with. I know players that have pulled in 60k+ that way, an hour spent farming kuva is never going to be worth an hour farming arcanes.

It's probably a much more efficient way to get that perfect riven, farm those sell em and buy the thing from the guy who suffered rolling it a billion times.

[Makunogo]

if you dont like it. dont do it. it's quite simple. you want kuva for your time. do siphons you are a lot less likely to DC and even if you do you do not lose the kuva (you can redo the mission) 

kuva survival on the other hand. the longer you stay in the longer you are risking losing it which is why most suggest to leave at the 30 minute mark. there is no reason to stay in the mission for extended durations anyway since the kuva amount does not increase.

30 minutes is also a healthy amount of time to stick in there without burning out (imo)

as for rolling. rivens are essentially 3-4  (we make use of the negative too) slots for the price of 1. so no they aren't going to just hand out that kind of power with stat fixing.

this was already stated by DE ( in regards to rolling) that the way stats are acquired will  not change.

also if you dont want to spend your time getting kuva at the low rate. than spend that time earning plat so u can buy the riven stat you want instead is highly suggested - or at least something similar - unfortunately everyone wants go rolls (generalization). and you guessed it.. that demand makes them expensive.

this is ALOT less stressful than going through RNG and i highly suggest it if you do not like farming kuva. 

also to avoid overuse/stree try to limit the amount of times you roll something. 

i personally do not roll anything over 20-25 unless i'm invested in the riven

 

 

[Tinklzs]

Personally I'd prefer rivens to be removed and they rebalance the game without those broken things in mind...

 

Since that won't happen, they should at least do it correctly, scaling rewards (starts after 20 mins and caps at 40 mins) gives a reason for players to endure, 

Lower roll requirements down to 3000 from 3500, gives players an illusion they're getting more bang for their buck (don't forget, it's all pixels and integers, hardly any development time is used here).

Add 1-2 mission types that currently don't have kuva as a way of getting it, disruption/defense or disruption/interception. Increase or decrease amounts so average is roughly the same as survival/floods are.

 

Honestly, rather a simple fix so players get the illusion that they're being listened to and can feel happy.  Shame DE is about as blunt as EA is at times and doesn't change unless walloped really hard with a roomba.

[Tinklzs]

2 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

if you dont like it. dont do it. it's quite simple. you want kuva for your time. do siphons you are a lot less likely to DC and even if you do you do not lose the kuva (you can redo the mission) 

kuva survival on the other hand. the longer you stay in the longer you are risking losing it which is why most suggest to leave at the 30 minute mark. there is no reason to stay in the mission for extended durations anyway since the kuva amount does not increase.

30 minutes is also a healthy amount of time to stick in there without burning out (imo)

as for rolling. rivens are essentially 3-4  (we make use of the negative too) slots for the price of 1. so no they aren't going to just hand out that kind of power with stat fixing.

this was already stated by DE ( in regards to rolling) that the way stats are acquired will  not change.

also if you dont want to spend your time getting kuva at the low rate. than spend that time earning plat so u can buy the riven stat you want instead is highly suggested - or at least something similar - unfortunately everyone wants go rolls (generalization). and you guessed it.. that demand makes them expensive.

this is ALOT less stressful than going through RNG and i highly suggest it if you do not like farming kuva. 

also to avoid overuse/stree try to limit the amount of times you roll something. 

i personally do not roll anything over 20-25 unless i'm invested in the riven

 

 

Thanks for the verbal diarrhea.  "If you don't like it, don't do it" - you lost all credibility there.  

No reason for DE not to improve the system, at the very least we should have snapshot loot by this point in Warframe's lifespan. We wouldn't be where we are at right now in gaming if someone didn't push the boundaries - except, you see, other games have already surpassed this problem years ago.

Every time the player gets a mission exclusive reward (in this case survival so every 5 minutes) it takes a picture of everyone's inventory. If someone crashes (crash develops a file, if that file is detected) then they will receive their loot assuming they cannot re-join the mission. If they alt-f4 then no crash file is created and they don't get loot.  

[Makunogo]

14 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

Personally I'd prefer rivens to be removed and they rebalance the game without those broken things in mind...

 

Since that won't happen, they should at least do it correctly, scaling rewards (starts after 20 mins and caps at 40 mins) gives a reason for players to endure, 

Lower roll requirements down to 3000 from 3500, gives players an illusion they're getting more bang for their buck (don't forget, it's all pixels and integers, hardly any development time is used here).

Add 1-2 mission types that currently don't have kuva as a way of getting it, disruption/defense or disruption/interception. Increase or decrease amounts so average is roughly the same as survival/floods are.

 

Honestly, rather a simple fix so players get the illusion that they're being listened to and can feel happy.  Shame DE is about as blunt as EA is at times and doesn't change unless walloped really hard with a roomba.

as much as i want better methods of kuva acquisition. i have to disagree here.

if anything it would be reasonable to have the other missions in the kuva fortress hand out kuva. 

eit: i'm honestly surprised they did not do that. because i find the maps in fortress rather nice. it feels like such a waste of art that we have essentially no reason to go there. but alas we dont always get what we want.

otherwise. we have siphons giving out kuva already. 

as for the 3500 decrease to 3000. that would be a welcome change. but again it is essentially game breaking ( in thier own words) so i dont see them making it much easier anytime soon. 

 

7 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

Thanks for the verbal diarrhea.  "If you don't like it, don't do it" - you lost all credibility there.  

No reason for DE not to improve the system, at the very least we should have snapshot loot by this point in Warframe's lifespan. We wouldn't be where we are at right now in gaming if someone didn't push the boundaries - except, you see, other games have already surpassed this problem years ago.

Every time the player gets a mission exclusive reward (in this case survival so every 5 minutes) it takes a picture of everyone's inventory. If someone crashes (crash develops a file, if that file is detected) then they will receive their loot assuming they cannot re-join the mission. If they alt-f4 then no crash file is created and they don't get loot.  

tough..

well.. make a suggestion post to them to use it? instead of bickering at my "verbal diarrhea"

Edited June 27, 2019 by Makunogo

[Tinklzs]

6 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

 

well.. make a suggestion post to them to use it? instead of bickering at my "verbal diarrhea"

Already done that, thus the..

 

18 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

Shame DE is about as blunt as EA is at times and doesn't change unless walloped really hard with a roomba.

Shame DE isn't nearly paying attention as they claim to be.

 

As for other missions on the fortress having kuva rewards - that's a no brainer, astounds me still that it wasn't like that from day 1. 

 

Yeah siphons give out kuva - but many of us don't like doing one mission at a time, I'd prefer just to stay in an endurance mission for a time then reset. What sucks the most is that, like I said, this is an easy fix.   As for lower kuva rolls 'breaking the game' whether DE said it or not, rivens break the game, their lack of powercreep management and leaving things to collect dust is what breaks Warframe, not -500 kuva per roll. 

 

Sorry if you got upset at by "verbal diarrhea" comment, the idea of "If you don't like it, don't do it"  doesn't sit well with me, that implies that it's perfect as is and cannot be improved on.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2019-06-21 at 11:34 AM, mushedribbit said:

Yeah having the rerolls be cheaper would probably be the simplest way to do it, having to farm 3500 Kuva every single time's just a b*tch. Either that or just increase the amount Kuva survival gives.

They're not gonna do that. The only thing kinda sorta keeping rivens in check is the RNG. If they do something, anything, to make getting good/great/perfect rolls more attainable that would effectively buff rivens across the board. Significantly.

[Blatantfool]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

They're not gonna do that. The only thing kinda sorta keeping rivens in check is the RNG. If they do something, anything, to make getting good/great/perfect rolls more attainable that would effectively buff rivens across the board. Significantly.

  Pay closer attention to discussion, though. Even when I brought up lowering the roll cost I also said I believe that the ceiling on how good Rivens can be needs to be lowered to suit this new logic.

 Rivens are literally too powerful. They're so good that they can potentially be a reason DE might have to wimp out on giving future weapons wild features, because it's impossible to test for whether these randomly rolling monster mods will send numbers of something off the deep end and break the game.

 The floor on how bad rivens should be should come up a bit by removing the ability for a weapon to roll a stat it doesn't use.

 The ceiling on how good a riven can be should come down to reduce the power creep pressure of the feature.

 The cost of rolling should be cheaper, encouraging players to stick with mods they might normally scrap with the knowledge that making it good is a realistic outcome at a reasonable grind level.

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, Tinklzs said:

the idea of "If you don't like it, don't do it"  doesn't sit well with me, that implies that it's perfect as is and cannot be improved on.

UPVOTED.

 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, Blatantfool said:

  Pay closer attention to discussion, though. Even when I brought up lowering the roll cost I also said I believe that the ceiling on how good Rivens can be needs to be lowered to suit this new logic.

 Rivens are literally too powerful. They're so good that they can potentially be a reason DE might have to wimp out on giving future weapons wild features, because it's impossible to test for whether these randomly rolling monster mods will send numbers of something off the deep end and break the game.

 The floor on how bad rivens should be should come up a bit by removing the ability for a weapon to roll a stat it doesn't use.

 The ceiling on how good a riven can be should come down to reduce the power creep pressure of the feature.

 The cost of rolling should be cheaper, encouraging players to stick with mods they might normally scrap with the knowledge that making it good is a realistic outcome at a reasonable grind level.

I missed that part, but even after this post, I still bet the changes you are talking about ain't gonna happen. I think the closest we're gonna get to the "ceiling being lowered" is weapons like gram not having their 5 dispo... but a riven doesn't need to be a 5 in order to be pretty damn strong.

 

But heres my sticking point. I think DE wants rivens to exist as unique items (relatively) that are an exciting exception to the norm. A carrot to chase. It's not uncommon for players to have hundreds, or over a thousand, hours in this game. They know the moment they make an easier path for good/great/perfect rolls, whether it's making it cheaper to reroll, or whether it's being able to lock a stat, or removing trash stats like +zoom, it will result in a significant increase in the quality of rivens across the board.

Now, I get what you're saying, if they did that, but also lowered the ceiling (you didnt day dispo outright, but that could be one way to do it) sure, that might "work". There might be a way to do that In a way that isnt game breaking but, even so, I don't think they're going to do that.

The rarity of say, cc/multi/dmg-zoom Lanka rivens (or whatever other "perfect" roll) has always seemed intentional to me. Maybe they want a riven economy to exist the way it does. Maybe they want the RNG aspect to exist the way it does. Maybe they want the players to feel like they can get something they can really be "proud of" because there arent really any other "unique" items in this game. Your primed pistol gambit is the same as every other primed pistol gambit, same for every prime set, arcane, and other mod. Point being to me at least it feels very much intentional.

FWIW this isn't about my opinion on what I would LIKE them to do or what I think they "should do" it's about what I just dont think is gonna happen.

 

What I would like to see at any rate are activities with enemies that cant just be obliterated instantly.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

UPVOTED.

 

Same. I dont like that argument either for the same reason

[Nerf_SupYo]

23 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

No reason for DE not to improve the system, at the very least we should have snapshot loot by this point in Warframe's lifespan. We wouldn't be where we are at right now in gaming if someone didn't push the boundaries - except, you see, other games have already surpassed this problem years ago.

Every time the player gets a mission exclusive reward (in this case survival so every 5 minutes) it takes a picture of everyone's inventory. If someone crashes (crash develops a file, if that file is detected) then they will receive their loot assuming they cannot re-join the mission. If they alt-f4 then no crash file is created and they don't get loot.  

The snapshot system does exist in fissures, I've been 2hrs+ in void survivals when my system crashed (or the net died, or something, it's been a long time since it happened) and I assumed I'd lost everything but an email from the lotus was waiting with all my goodies when I logged back in.

Now for that to apply to the rest of the game.

[(PSN)smb-twisted]

On 2019-06-21 at 7:03 PM, YoshixInfinite said:

What'd work best for me is to have a 'Full' Roll where every stat is randomized, and a 'precise' roll, where you choose one stat to randomize.

would make godrolls stupidly easy

[Guest]

Just now, (PS4)smb-twisted said:

would make godrolls stupidly easy

And why should they be hard?

[(PSN)smb-twisted]

On 2019-06-22 at 9:06 AM, AzureTerra said:

Kuva is a nice bonus for doing a Mission i like on a great tileset.

 

This. I love kuvival. Also if people didn't waste so much time levlling in hydron they'd have mountains of kuva. i do all my levelling pretty much exclusively here and as a result have over 500k kuva.

one addition i wouldn't be against is making it work like the updated fractures thing - put in multiple catalysts which ramp up the difficulty but also the reward. i thought of this recently as i noticed the kuva towers seem to have mulltiple catalysts in anyhow. even that maybe a bit too much though, 4 catalysts in one tower, with res booster & smeeta buff = 3200 kuva? i mean, that's nice but you could come out of a mid length kuvival with ~50k would be ludicrous tbh