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Nazrethim

Ash Revisit 2.0

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Hi. This is a repost of a now archived post I made about 2 years ago. Perhaps Ash has hopes of getting another revisit that actually solves the issues with him.

Thanks to @Urlan and @(PS4)RenovaKunumaru for renewing my hope. And to all who have not forgotten Ash.

 

This is a rework focused on fast pace combat and high mobility.

The principles of this rework are to fix Ash's issues with these in mind:

+Must be interactive

+Clipshow stays but it's entirely optional

+Conclave balanced

+Must keep Ash's theme:

"Ash is lethal and elusive, but his effects on the battlefield can be felt by all"

+Must not require development of new assets on DE's part, it's is merely a re-arrangement of currently existing assets

 

Note to those who follow my concepts: I didn't change much. Just tweaked a few effects that were pointed out to me were too good, tweaked some mechanics and added augments and augment set bonus.

Thanks to @Azamagon for the Shuriken and Fatal Teleport better augment ideas.

 

Ash rework:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Increases Bleed damage by 20% and Duration by 50%

Augment (exilus): Blood Splatter

Bleed damage increased by 260% and Duration reduced by 50%. Replaces Hemorrhage's standard effect. Mutually exclusive with Relentless Assassin

Spoiler

This Augment keeps the same total damage of any Bleed effect, but reduces duration instead of increasing it. It's focused on more burst damage than long DoT. Example:

Bleed (default) deals 100 damage per second for 6s. Total damage 600

Hemorrhage: Bleed deals 120 damage per second for 9s. Total damage of 1080

Blood Splatter: Bleed deals 360 damage per second for 3s. Total damage of 1080

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 7s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

Augment (exilus): Relentless Assassin

Killing marked enemies with a Finisher attack or Ash's abilities grants him 10 energy (5 for Teleport's Hold function). Mutually exclusive with Blood Splatter.

Spoiler

These marks increase those two specific damage types the victims take, which means it's buff to the Finisher and Bleed damage of the whole party. It doesn't actually add or converts any other damage to those types.

None of these passives or their augments are affected by mods.

Shuriken:

Ash throws a single non-guided Shuriken that deals 200/500/700/1000 Slash damage and applies a Bleed proc that lasts (base before passives) 6 seconds. If target is Unalerted it deals its total damage (shuriken+bleed) instantly as Finisher damage (augmented versions have the same mechanic). Marked enemies have their Armor or Shields stripped by 50% for 4s. Shuriken has 2.0 Punch Trough to it and staggers all enemies hit

Augment: Seeking Shurikens

Adds 4 smaller seeking shuriken. These smaller shuriken home in on enemies, but have no punchthrough and only deals ~35% of the main Shuriken's damage. Armor/shield-reduction is 35% and they as well also stagger enemies.

Augment:  Razorwind Shuriken

The Shuriken now also has emits razorsharp ash-winds from its blades (basicly adding a flat "aura" on it) increasing its cutting width by 0.8m. Note that only the main physical part of the Shuriken handles the punchthrough, so you can "abuse" this to cut enemies around corners without losing punchthrough values etc). Enemies struck by the Shuriken or the ash-winds suffer all the basic effects (damage, bleed, armor/shield-removal, stagger etc), but are now also blinded for 3 seconds. The flight speed of the shuriken is also increased by 50%.

Spoiler

Seeking Shurikens: the 4 additional shuriken will seek targets randomly, so it's possible to hit an enemy multiple times. Each of these strip % of the enemies maximum armor (in other words these don't have Diminishing Return.

 

Effects from Stats:

Strength: Damage, Armor/Shield strip, Flight speed bonus from Razorwind Shuriken

Duration: Bleed base duration (which affects the total damage), Armor/Shield strip duration, Razorwind's blinding effect.

Range:  Shuriken's Punch Trough and Razorwind Shuriken's radius.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke at his feet that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Acts as a LoS blocker for enemies, and enemies inside the cloud and for 3s after leaving it suffer -30% Accuracy debuff (affected by Strength). Cloud radius is 3m. Can be recasted (only 1 cloud can be active at any given time though)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud also gain invisibility while inside it and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Mutually exclusive with Choking Gas

Choking Gas: Enemies inside the cloud are stunned for 3s and open to finisher attacks. They also take a small amount of Gas damage (equal to 2% of the target's maximum health, affected by Strength) while inside the cloud and for 4s after leaving it. Mutually exclusive with Smoke Shadow.

Spoiler

Mechanically this ability creates a "cloud" entity which constantly reapplies an invisibility buff to Ash (or allies if SShadow is equiped) as well as applying the Accuracy debuff.

Effects from stats:

Strength: Potency of the accuracy debuff, health % Gas damage from Choking Gas

Duration: Cloud duration, lingering invisibility duration, debuff duration, gas damage debuff duration.

Range: cloud radius.

Fatal Teleport:

Normal: Ash teleports to the target location (default range 35m), staggering and opening nearby (3m radius) enemies to Finisher attacks and increasing Finisher damage of your next finishing move by 30% for 3s. Cost 20 energy.

Overdrive: after holding the ability (fixed at 1s with automatic release) Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped melee weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 5 energy (10 if Blade Storm Stance is active) per enemy

Augment: Gruesome Execution

Killing an enemy with a Finisher attack after using Fatal Teleport shocks enemies, staggering them and opening them to Finisher attack. Killing a second enemy will terrify enemies causing them to flee for 3s. Overdrive skips directly to the terrify part. Shock&Fear radius is 8m

Augment: Deadly Blur

Replaces Fatal Teleport Overdrive animations with blurred dash-teleports, vastly increasing the execution speed. (While in Blade Storm mode phantom blurrs will join in to attack nearby enemies too). Also increases the execution speed of all Finisher animations by 100% after using Fatal Teleport for 4s

Spoiler

Overdrive function freezes the timer on Marks of the Assassin on enemies until all of them have been attacked/are dead.

 

Effects from stats:

Strength: Damage bonus for the next Finisher, Bonus execution speed from Deadly Blur

Duration: Damage bonus for the next finisher duration, Gruesome Execution fear duration.

Range: Casting range, staggering radius, shock&fear radius

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks  3 holographic clones will show up to do a Finisher on nearby enermies in a 3m radius, essentially Ash Finish up to 4 enemies per finisher attack in this mode.

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in a 5m line.

Combo 3 (EEhold+E) hit>hit>Ash spins around hitting enemies surrounding him and applying Bleeds on them

Duration based ultimate, lasts 12s. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase Combo counter while in Blade Storm by 2/4/6/8s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x. Mutually exclusive with Perfect Storm.

Perfect Storm:

 -Canceling the ability will cause Ash to dissapear and strike all enemies in a 20m radius (LoS check) slashing them 3 times dealing Finisher damage (does not apply finisher multipliers) , then returning to his position. Mutually exclusive with Rising Storm.

Spoiler

The manic-like Teleports are done mechanically by using Limbo's sidestep animation, while making Ash's model invisible to both player, allies and enemies and creating small smoke effects at both "ends"

The Melee combos range is affected by Reach mods on the melee weapon, not Power Range.

Effects from Stats:

Strength: Wristblade damage, Perfect Storm damage (due to being based of the wristblades damage), Rising Storm's bonus combo multiplier.

Duration: Stance mode duration and Rising Storm's bonus combo counter timer.

Range: Multiple-finisher radius, Perfect Storm radius, Stance Combo 2 distance traveled

Augment Set Bonus: (requires at least 3 Augments)

+15 Enemy Radar

+10% Parkour and Sprint Speed

+10% Evasion

-25% Enemy Detection range

 

Conclave version:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Melee strikes inflict a Bleed proc dealing 10% of the weapons Slash damage per second for 3s

Passive: Mark of the Assassin

Only marks on radar. Has 15m marking range and falls off when enemy is 25m away. Lasts only 5s.

Shuriken:

-Shuriken deals 90 Slash damage

-Seeking Shurikens deal 20 Slash damage+10 Bleed over 10s and only release 3 shurikens.

-Piercing Shuriken deals 60 Puncture damage and has 3.5 Punch Trough.

Smoke Screen:

Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility. Reduces accuracy of victims by 30% for 4s

Tear Gas: (augment)

-Enemies that enter the cloud are Blinded while inside it and for 1.5s after leaving it.

Smoke Out: (augment)

-Ash becomes invulnerable for 1s on cast and gains 0.4 Mobility for 4s. This effect cannot be triggered more than once every 5s.

 

Teleport:

Ash teleports to the location he is aiming. (Doesn't trigger a Stagger) Costs 20 energy and has 35m range.

Overdrive: Ash teleports to the location he is aiming, uppon landing he will also swipe his wristblades around dealing 35 Slash damage to opponents in Melee range. Costs 30 energy.

 

Blade Storm:

Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

Sinister Shadow (Augment):

Ash leaves an afterimage of himself whenever he performs a dash. Lasts 2s.

It creates a static decoy that doesn't move nor has collision of any type, it's purpose is deception/distraction.

 

Note: Conclave abilities work mostly the same as the PvE counterparts, the mechanics listed are only the changes for balance.

 

Feel free to ask any question or point out any flaw on this design. Have a nice day.

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Seems very interesting as always.

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Soo.......why are you giving a passive an augment? And why are they going in the exilus slot when they have nothing to do with movement, the usual requirement for an augment to go into exilus.

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hace 1 hora, Atsia dijo:

Soo.......why are you giving a passive an augment?

It hasn't been done yet. And it could allow for frames to have passive effects that were scrapped in development.

hace 1 hora, Atsia dijo:

And why are they going in the exilus slot when they have nothing to do with movement, the usual requirement for an augment to go into exilus.

That's mostly because they don't affect one of your active abilities. And to ease a bit slot space considering I also added a set bonus for Augments which requires at minimum 3 augments.

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8 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

It hasn't been done yet. And it could allow for frames to have passive effects that were scrapped in development. 

I mean, maybe, but considering it's supposed to be a passive, something usually restively minor in comparison to the kit, it wouldn't be justified in having a full augment for it.

 

8 hours ago, Nazrethim said:
Quote

 

That's mostly because they don't affect one of your active abilities. And to ease a bit slot space considering I also added a set bonus for Augments which requires at minimum 3 augmen

That would maybe be ok, but there's no way DE is make augments work the same as set mods.

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hace 1 hora, Atsia dijo:

I mean, maybe, but considering it's supposed to be a passive, something usually restively minor in comparison to the kit, it wouldn't be justified in having a full augment for it.

Nidus passive isn't a minor part of his gameplay. Imagine if he had one augment that boosted his Mutation and another that boosted Undying, being mutually exclusive.

hace 1 hora, Atsia dijo:

That would maybe be ok, but there's no way DE is make augments work the same as set mods.

No need to really. Mechanically speaking at least. Instead of turning augments into set mods, just have the frame have a hidden "checklist" that keeps track of how many augments are equiped. If Nº of Augments is equal to, or higher than 3, then activate bonus.

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An exilus augment for passives. That's super interesting and can open up many build possibilities.

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hace 22 horas, (XB1)Nightseid dijo:

 That's super interesting and can open up many build possibilities.

Well pretty much the entire kit is designed around different build posibilities.

You could put a Duration build to boost Bladestorm and Smoke Screen duration... or build for STR and Range sacrificing Duriation and make a Perfect Storm build where you turn Bladestorm on and off. Or go Duration & STR and make Bladestorm and Choking Gas Smoke Screen better. Or Duration and Range to make Smoke Screen area denial and LoS blocker (also debuffing enemy accuracy in the process).

Smoke Shadow in particular is way better this way, because instead of needing to hug your allies at the time of casting, you can just dash ahead of the team and leave a cloud on the way, so the get cloaked as they pass by, or set up a cloud safe zone for allies to cloak mid battle.

Sneaking around is made way easier with Shuriken doing straight finisher damage from a distance.

Sneaking around? maybe I could take Relentless Assassin to refill my energy with stealth takedowns (since I'm avoiding detection Rage mods wouldn't be as effective). Frontal assault? Bossfight? maybe I could pick Blood Splatter to get some nice burst damage trough bleeds.

Should I build for power stats with one or even no augment? or fit 3 and get that set bonus?

Those are the ones that come to my mind, but I bet someone else will have interesting combinations and uses.

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Some of your ideas are similar to mines. I did a post like this. Here is my idea for Ash`s revisit;

Ash:

 

1st Ability:

If you hold the ability, you have the option to make two things happen;

·       Either the elemental mods you have on your melee weapon will be inflicted onto enemies but only base elementals. If you have two elementals equipped, it will proc either one.  Same thing applies If you have all four elemental mods equipped.

·       Or by having no elemental mods equipped it`s damage will double however if you have only one elemental mod equipped, the damage will split e.g. toxin & slash.

·       If you aim it at an enemy, both shurikens will hit that enemy instead of seeking other enemies.

 

This gives Ash more options and a creative way to kill enemies. Even through most people would rather have the double slash damage, it`s a choice whether you want mods with elemental mods or not.

 

2nd ability

·       Increase the stun duration to 4 sec.

·       Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and be more susceptible to damage by 30%.

·       The smoke will linger for 10 seconds.

·       The effectiveness can be increased by strength and duration mods.

 

Synergy:

·       Using 1st, 3rd and 4th abilities on the smoke victim will increase the damage the enemy will receive.

·       If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear.

 

There are three new ways you can use this ability;

·       You can mod for duration and range to make this a better cc ability.

·       You can use it next to a dangerously high-levelled enemy to stun it and kill it with ease.

·       You can use it to block enemies in doorways. Since the smoke affect duration is 6 seconds and the smoke lasts 10 seconds, enemies will be stuck for a total of 12 seconds.

·       Ash is more effective in stealth gameplay.

·       Ash now can be use in a farming team with a nekros.

 

3rd ability:

·       Make ash able to teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies and objects with a health bar on the other side of it.

·       Make ash able to teleport to enemies in the air.

 

With these small tweaks Ash will be beneficial in spy missions and has an easier time killing airborne enemies.

 

Before I get into bs here are the current problems with bs

The marking process makes bs slow, in a fast-pasted game THIS IS BAD. 

Other players can take their kills before you get a chance to kill them. 

Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. 

The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. 

Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is a choice; this so-called synergy is a must. 

Using the 3rd ability to be in the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it. Make that make sense.

Apparitions "clones" appearance is not consistent.

 

4th ability

·       When activating the ability, it will start instantly.

·       Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation, holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       Ash will continually kill the enemy until it`s dead.

·       If you are in the bs animation pressing the ability again will deactivate it.

·       Enemies that are red can be killed by allies.

·       Make bs able to kill as many enemies that are within the radius of the enemies he`s aiming at.

·       An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

 

Why this logically makes blade storm better;

 

·       Ash`s bs is slow however at lease because it`s an instant activation, he will at least get to the enemies 1st before any other frame`s damage ability does.

·       The current bs we have now made him absolutely useless in a team but with my changes, at least in a high-level mission he can kill more efficiently which in turn make the team less likely to get downed.

·       The choice of whether you want to be in the animations or not is much easier to pull off. The way it is now if you use bs and you want to join the animation, but you have no energy you can’t join it even through it`s not meant to cost any energy to do so.

·       The indicator lets you know when you can use bs again.

·       If saryn, ember, banshee, equinox can kill as many enemies that’s in their radius then ash should be able to do the same thing.

·       These changes do not make him op because other people can take his kills while bs is still active.

 

 

New bladestorm augment:

Each enemy that is killed from bs will leave an x on the ground which will give Ash and allies increased attack and running speed which can stack up to 40%

·       The indicator of this I shown on the top right of the screen.

 

I decided to change the augment since there is a chance that the combat multiplier might going away in melee 3.0 and in all is a better augment in my opinion.

And since there is a chance that the combat multiplier is going away, I have come up with a new way to stack up Ash`s bs damage.

As much as I don`t want to say this, If I had to make some sacrifices to make bs quick and easy to use I would;

Take the ability for Ash to be invulnerable while in bs.

Take the ability to ramp up damage with combat multi.

Decrease the damage.

That being said, If a warframe is nerfed, there has to be something to make up for the downsides (equivalent exchange) so I would.

Make Ash have 90% damage reduction while in the animation.

 

(Synergy) Shuriken & Blade storm:

To increase the damage of bs you must use shuriken. As long as enemies continuedly keep receiving bleeding ticks, your damage will increase over time.

·       This is not about killing the enemy with shuriken, they need to be alive for bs to receive more damage.

·       This gives you a very good reason to use shuriken.

·       This also synergises with his passive giving you 10 seconds of bleeding ticks.

·       If no enemies are affected by slash, you will have 10 seconds before the damage resets.

·       There will be an indicator showing the amount of damage you are accumulating and the amount of time you have left.

·       This does not include using weapons that do slash damage, it's only for shuriken.

When bs is done, the damage you have accumulated can be used in two ways. It can either be used for bs again or be used for increased damage for shuriken.

This gives you a reason to use shuriken and makes him a very efficient killer in high-level missions.

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hace 4 horas, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

Some of your ideas are similar to mines.

Ash isn't that hard to fix, it's incredible DE managed to scrw it up so bad.

hace 4 horas, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

1st Ability:

If you hold the ability, you have the option to make two things happen;

·       Either the elemental mods you have on your melee weapon will be inflicted onto enemies but only base elementals. If you have two elementals equipped, it will proc either one.  Same thing applies If you have all four elemental mods equipped.

·       Or by having no elemental mods equipped it`s damage will double however if you have only one elemental mod equipped, the damage will split e.g. toxin & slash.

·       If you aim it at an enemy, both shurikens will hit that enemy instead of seeking other enemies.

 

This gives Ash more options and a creative way to kill enemies. Even through most people would rather have the double slash damage, it`s a choice whether you want mods with elemental mods or not.

This is a very convoluted shuriken. The odd thing is that it doesn't straight up copy the elements of the weapon, which sort of prevents everyone from using Viral on it alongside the Slash, but it's a bit unintuitive to mod and doesn't really offer much creative options other than changing the mod setup of your melee.

hace 4 horas, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

2nd ability

·       Increase the stun duration to 4 sec.

·       Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and be more susceptible to damage by 30%.

·       The smoke will linger for 10 seconds.

·       The effectiveness can be increased by strength and duration mods.

Again, this is too convoluted to work around. So the stun has a duration but the stun inside the cloud has another duration and the smoke has a different duration too, so that's 3 timers for kinda the same mechanic? Kind of reminds me of Feral Cat DPS in Wrath where you had like 5 timers to keep track of on your normal rotation, before you add the boss timers, trinket timers and bloodlust. Why not boil it to a single timer? "Enemies inside the cloud are stunned" and let the cloud duration do the rest. It's more or less why I changed the Smoke Screen to have a set duration and leave a lingering invisibility.

hace 4 horas, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

3rd ability:

·       Make ash able to teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies and objects with a health bar on the other side of it.

·       Make ash able to teleport to enemies in the air.

- How would this work mechanically speaking? Will the game check if you are aiming at an object outside of LoS?

-Enemies on air have no finisher animations so unless they are added this is largely useless.

Wouldn't be better if you could teleport anywhere within a set distance? like in Conclave currently?

hace 4 horas, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

Before I get into bs here are the current problems with bs

The marking process makes bs slow, in a fast-pasted game THIS IS BAD. 

Other players can take their kills before you get a chance to kill them. 

Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. 

The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. 

Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is a choice; this so-called synergy is a must. 

Using the 3rd ability to be in the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it. Make that make sense.

Apparitions "clones" appearance is not consistent.

Actually the clones follow a consistent pattern: 2 clones show up to kill enemies. If you join the animation the clones vanish and you bladestorm alone (I'm sure is an unintended bug that's over two years old by now)

But ye, this bladestorm has a fktons of unavoidable flaws. At least old press4towin bladestorm only had 2 issues: enemies mid stab couldn't be damaged by allies and you get stuck in animation hell if you are foolish enough to bladestorm an eximus. The first was barely a nuissance since at least locked enemies were dead anyway and the second was easy to avoid if you paid attention and bladestormed only when all eximi were dispatched, which actually gave a purpose to teleport: use teleport to dispatch eximus then bladestorm all the grunts.

hace 4 horas, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

4th ability

·       When activating the ability, it will start instantly.

·       Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation, holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       Ash will continually kill the enemy until it`s dead.

·       If you are in the bs animation pressing the ability again will deactivate it.

·       Enemies that are red can be killed by allies.

·       Make bs able to kill as many enemies that are within the radius of the enemies he`s aiming at.

·       An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

This is World on Bladestorm, it was DE's first idea, and it was the dumbest idea ever, the second dumbest idea would have been a target-by-target marking mode with target-by-target execution.

hace 4 horas, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

Why this logically makes blade storm better;

 

·       Ash`s bs is slow however at lease because it`s an instant activation, he will at least get to the enemies 1st before any other frame`s damage ability does.

·       The current bs we have now made him absolutely useless in a team but with my changes, at least in a high-level mission he can kill more efficiently which in turn make the team less likely to get downed.

·       The choice of whether you want to be in the animations or not is much easier to pull off. The way it is now if you use bs and you want to join the animation, but you have no energy you can’t join it even through it`s not meant to cost any energy to do so.

·       The indicator lets you know when you can use bs again.

·       If saryn, ember, banshee, equinox can kill as many enemies that’s in their radius then ash should be able to do the same thing.

·       These changes do not make him op because other people can take his kills while bs is still active.

While it's not necesarily op by today¡s standards, it's very afk-friendly. You can pop storm up, hide, then do nothing while the clones dispatch, then repeat. Remember that while being so slow as to be useless is bad design, being able to easily wipe hordes of enemies with no effort (and leaving your allies nothing to do but stand around and yawn) is also bad design.

hace 4 horas, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

 

New bladestorm augment:

Each enemy that is killed from bs will leave an x on the ground which will give Ash and allies increased attack and running speed which can stack up to 40%

·       The indicator of this I shown on the top right of the screen.

 

I decided to change the augment since there is a chance that the combat multiplier might going away in melee 3.0 and in all is a better augment in my opinion.

And since there is a chance that the combat multiplier is going away, I have come up with a new way to stack up Ash`s bs damage.

what would be the name of the augment?

hace 4 horas, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

As much as I don`t want to say this, If I had to make some sacrifices to make bs quick and easy to use I would;

Take the ability for Ash to be invulnerable while in bs.

Take the ability to ramp up damage with combat multi.

Decrease the damage.

That being said, If a warframe is nerfed, there has to be something to make up for the downsides (equivalent exchange) so I would.

Make Ash have 90% damage reduction while in the animation.

so... make it another Ember but with some damage reduction instead of a ninja assassin?

hace 4 horas, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

(Synergy) Shuriken & Blade storm:

To increase the damage of bs you must use shuriken. As long as enemies continuedly keep receiving bleeding ticks, your damage will increase over time.

·       This is not about killing the enemy with shuriken, they need to be alive for bs to receive more damage.

·       This gives you a very good reason to use shuriken.

·       This also synergises with his passive giving you 10 seconds of bleeding ticks.

·       If no enemies are affected by slash, you will have 10 seconds before the damage resets.

·       There will be an indicator showing the amount of damage you are accumulating and the amount of time you have left.

·       This does not include using weapons that do slash damage, it's only for shuriken.

When bs is done, the damage you have accumulated can be used in two ways. It can either be used for bs again or be used for increased damage for shuriken.

This gives you a reason to use shuriken and makes him a very efficient killer in high-level missions.

Except the passive is somewhat flawed too. I would never hire Ash as an assassin if he leaves a mess of blood everywhere because his target spent 10s bleeding. That's why I added the Blood Splatter augment, to have the option of being more bursty in terms of damage.

So, Bladestorm would entirely useless unless you are also spamming shuriken like a madman?

This rework idea of yours needs way more thinking and attention to details. For example there aren't any upgrades to stealth beyond smoke screen stunning enemies. No distraction or ways to dispatch enemies quickly. It's all about building up damage to unleash a storm that would have zero participation of the player. And ability spam.

My rework is more oriented towards precision, agility and cunning. And build diversity, specially flipping the blade to max effi builds.

To be fair, my initial rework was terrible, this one here is the result of at least 8 months of thinking and improving. I dare you to do better! 🙂

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hace 3 horas, Birdframe_Prime dijo:

Eyy, welcome back Nazrethim, good to see a new thread from you ^^

Thanks. It's been a while. It's good to be remembered.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Ash isn't that hard to fix, it's incredible DE managed to scrw it up so bad.

Agreed. He has so much potential to be better and comparing him to other frames, he needs an update on his abilities.

 

21 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

This is a very convoluted shuriken. The odd thing is that it doesn't straight up copy the elements of the weapon, which sort of prevents everyone from using Viral on it alongside the Slash, but it's a bit unintuitive to mod and doesn't really offer much creative options other than changing the mod setup of your melee.

I`ll admit when I cam up with this idea I was thinking more of fun than usefulness and ninjas are known to use poisons on their shuriken's. Tbh I don`t mind if it had the ability to mix two elementals to use the combined effect, Its just that their will be no reason to use the augment if this happened but at the same time it might be a good thing. Btw what you said about the stagger already happens unfortunately its not consistent. Thinking about it now, he could have a ability wheel like Vauban and ivara to choose between slash or elemental damage.

21 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

this is too convoluted to work around.

I see what your saying but if this was to happen I'm sure DE could make this work plus there are advantages to this;

·       You can mod for duration and range to make this a better cc ability.

·       You can use it next to a dangerously high-levelled enemy to stun it and kill it with ease.

·       You can use it to block enemies in doorways. Since the smoke affect duration is 6 seconds and the smoke lasts 10 seconds, enemies will be stuck for a total of 12 seconds.

·       Ash is more effective in stealth gameplay.

Plus I added a better synergy;

If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear. This makes Ash more like an assassin and now can be use in a farming team with a nekros.

21 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

This is World on Bladestorm, it was DE's first idea, and it was the dumbest idea ever, the second dumbest idea would have been a target-by-target marking mode with target-by-target execution.

Not exactly. Their idea was for him to run around and then clones kill things like ember`s flames. (which I agree it`s a bad idea) I'm saying if you don`t want to be in the animation you put your radical on a target, hold the ability and it will kill enemies in a radius.

 

21 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

being able to easily wipe hordes of enemies with no effort (and leaving your allies nothing to do but stand around and yawn) is also bad design.

That's why I added the synergy with the 1st and the 4th to build up damage and get rid of the combo multi. ( which DE might get rid of it anyway) Remember I also said enemies that are red can be killed by allies I just want Ash to get to the enemies first. The way it is now you can`t kill the same amount of enemies consistently in a team. Or maybe the radius could work like hildryn`s 2nd ability.

 

21 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

- How would this work mechanically speaking? Will the game check if you are aiming at an object outside of LoS?

-Enemies on air have no finisher animations so unless they are added this is largely useless.

Wouldn't be better if you could teleport anywhere within a set distance? like in Conclave currently?

If you put wisp`s 1st ability in the spy room with a window and them go on the other side of the window and aim at the 1st ability, she can teleport to it through the window, that's how I want Ash`s 3rd ability to work. DE have proved that it is possible.

If I'm not mistaken, DE said with melee 3.0 you can do multi arial attacks that's why I came up with this idea plus it makes sense Garuda can pounce on airborne enemies so why can`t ash teloport to them? I don`t mind if you could teleport anywhere within a set distance.

21 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Except the passive is somewhat flawed too. I would never hire Ash as an assassin if he leaves a mess of blood everywhere because his target spent 10s bleeding. That's why I added the Blood Splatter augment, to have the option of being more bursty in terms of damage.

So, Bladestorm would entirely useless unless you are also spamming shuriken like a madman?

Just to ask why do you think his passive is flawed? I see what your saying about the blood everywhere but its not like enemies will see blood and be alerted. I wouldn't say bs would be useless in low lvls you don`t need to spam 1st ability but in high levels you do to me it`s better that using you melee weapon to build up damage. Also Nidus spams his 1st like a madman (if you don`t like Nidus doing that I get it) at least the 1st has another use in high lvls. One thing I'm not budging on is his bs I like the animation and I want that to stay so we might have to agree to disagree. Depending on melee 3.0 my ideas on Ash`s abilities might change.

I don`t mind if Ash got some buffs like speed in your idea, I just want his to get the revisit he deserves and be better then the way he is now.

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757

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hace 1 hora, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

I`ll admit when I cam up with this idea I was thinking more of fun than usefulness and ninjas are known to use poisons on their shuriken's. Tbh I don`t mind if it had the ability to mix two elementals to use the combined effect, Its just that their will be no reason to use the augment if this happened but at the same time it might be a good thing. Btw what you said about the stagger already happens unfortunately its not consistent. Thinking about it now, he could have a ability wheel like Vauban and ivara to choose between slash or elemental damage.

Yeah, I thought about that initially. 4 Shurikens. You start with one and unlock new types everytime the ability ranks up. I ended up scrapping that because after using Ivara in a similar fashion I realised it was cumbersome if you want to be agile. Holding the button to cycle/shoot that is. It's not a bad idea, but it forces you to plan ahead and move slowly and I aimed my rework towards agility.

The second version of Shuriken I thought was a 2-type shuriken. Tap to throw the regular one, Hold to throw the alternative (which was "throw smaller shuriken with only 25% of the normal one's effect to all marked enemies" as I had already added the passive 'Mark of the Assassin'). Then I added the detail of the 'Hold' only held for 1s with automatic release, so players wouldn't run around while holding one button all the time.

Scrapped that later because all 4 abilities had that Tap/Hold duality (Smoke Screen Tap casted the cloud at your feet, Hold threw it like a grenade; Teleport is still there and Bladestorm Hold became an Augment once I decided to have 2 augments for each ability).

hace 1 hora, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

I see what your saying but if this was to happen I'm sure DE could make this work plus there are advantages to this;

·       You can mod for duration and range to make this a better cc ability.

·       You can use it next to a dangerously high-levelled enemy to stun it and kill it with ease.

·       You can use it to block enemies in doorways. Since the smoke affect duration is 6 seconds and the smoke lasts 10 seconds, enemies will be stuck for a total of 12 seconds.

·       Ash is more effective in stealth gameplay.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm saying the wording is convoluted.

hace 1 hora, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

Plus I added a better synergy;

If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear. This makes Ash more like an assassin and now can be use in a farming team with a nekros.

Not exactly. Their idea was for him to run around and then clones kill things like ember`s flames. (which I agree it`s a bad idea) I'm saying if you don`t want to be in the animation you put your radical on a target, hold the ability and it will kill enemies in a radius.

I get it.

hace 1 hora, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

That's why I added the synergy with the 1st and the 4th to build up damage and get rid of the combo multi. ( which DE might get rid of it anyway) Remember I also said enemies that are red can be killed by allies I just want Ash to get to the enemies first. The way it is now you can`t kill the same amount of enemies consistently in a team. Or maybe the radius could work like hildryn`s 2nd ability.

 

If you put wisp`s 1st ability in the spy room with a window and them go on the other side of the window and aim at the 1st ability, she can teleport to it through the window, that's how I want Ash`s 3rd ability to work. DE have proved that it is possible.

I haven't used Hildryn or Wisp yet. Thanks for the info. Yes it could work then.

hace 1 hora, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

If I'm not mistaken, DE said with melee 3.0 you can do multi arial attacks that's why I came up with this idea plus it makes sense Garuda can pounce on airborne enemies so why can`t ash teloport to them? I don`t mind if you could teleport anywhere within a set distance.

Well, that could actually work if Teleport used Bladestorm's finisher animations instead of your currently equiped melee.

hace 1 hora, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

Just to ask why do you think his passive is flawed? I see what your saying about the blood everywhere but its not like enemies will see blood and be alerted.

From a thematic point of view, wouldn't be better if they would die from bleeding faster? Sure the passive in a sense works like that, by making them bleed 20% harder, but why extend duration by 50%? doesn't make much sense coming from a ninja.

hace 1 hora, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

I wouldn't say bs would be useless in low lvls you don`t need to spam 1st ability but in high levels you do to me it`s better that using you melee weapon to build up damage. Also Nidus spams his 1st like a madman (if you don`t like Nidus doing that I get it) at least the 1st has another use in high lvls. One thing I'm not budging on is his bs I like the animation and I want that to stay so we might have to agree to disagree.

I too like the animation. I want it to be optional yet when you are on it you don't suddently become useless. Right now it checks the first part but fails the second.

hace 1 hora, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

I don`t mind if Ash got some buffs like speed in your idea I just want his to get the revisit he deserves and be better then he was and now.

To be honest. Most of my rework is inspired by two sources: World of Warcraft Rogue class (post-Mist) and (most of it) Mark of the Ninja (aka: one of the, if not The, best ninja game ever made)

 

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Am 23.6.2019 um 05:01 schrieb Atsia:

Soo.......why are you giving a passive an augment? And why are they going in the exilus slot when they have nothing to do with movement, the usual requirement for an augment to go into exilus.

Exilus isn't all about Movement ... 
Enemy Sense, Intruder, Master Thief, Warm Coat, Retribution and so on...

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2 hours ago, Somi_xD said:

Exilus isn't all about Movement ... 
Enemy Sense, Intruder, Master Thief, Warm Coat, Retribution and so on...

For augments, yes they are. While the general use for the slot is supposed to be utility,  for augments specifically, only ones that purely and only affect movement to into in, like Mesa Waltz, or Escape Velocity.

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hace 15 horas, Atsia dijo:

For augments, yes they are. While the general use for the slot is supposed to be utility,  for augments specifically, only ones that purely and only affect movement to into in, like Mesa Waltz, or Escape Velocity.

It's also because if it wasn't exilus a fully augmented Ash would require 5 normal slots, that won't do it. The idea was making a 4 augment build viable, but I also liked the idea of having an augment to make passives more useful. So a good and reasonable compromise is to make it an Exilus.

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