Despair considered good?

[FlusteredFerret]

I've seen a fair bit of chat on the forums about this weapon (mostly related to drop chances) and now I finally got it after managing to kill Stalker for only the second time ever (using my Valkyr's #4 ability).

After reading the Wiki entry it seems like a decent weapon, though possibly a bit tricky to master. I was just wondering what peoples' experiences with it are and if it is something I am likely to use much, apart from missions where I want to make stealth kills. My only previous experience of thrown meleé weapons is the Orvius, which I quite like.

Any pearls of wisdom greatly appreciated.

 

[krc473]

1 minute ago, FlusteredFerret said:

My only previous experience of thrown meleé weapons is the Orvius, which I quite like.

Well, the first thing is that it’s not a melee weapon. It is like Spira, a thrown secondary. It has travel time and everything.

 

I just ran some pointless builds around high fire rate (or my riven) on Despair. The weapon itself is fine, but it really cannot come close to competing with other newer secondaries. I found it fun, so used it a little because of that. 

[FlusteredFerret]

19 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Well, the first thing is that it’s not a melee weapon. It is like Spira, a thrown secondary. It has travel time and everything.

 

I just ran some pointless builds around high fire rate (or my riven) on Despair. The weapon itself is fine, but it really cannot come close to competing with other newer secondaries. I found it fun, so used it a little because of that. 

Cheers - well that explains why the Wiki said it uses pistol ammo (which I found confusing).

Fun works for me...I'm not one of those players that looks for max damage, efficiency etc. Looking forward to trying it out.

 

[Xzorn]

Not really a good throwing weapon.

If you're looking for an effective damage based throwing weapon go with Fusilai. It has good status, crit and Slash weight making it versatile. It also has a fun alt-fire mechanic. Pox is the supreme choice for Utility and Hikou Prime is still the best for Concealed Explosives spam due to it's fire rate.

[DatDarkOne]

The Despair is really only slightly better than the Kunai.  Kunai with the Syndicate mod becomes better.  

As for thrown weapons, it just can't compare to the Fusilai, Pox, Spira Prime, or Hikou Prime.  Which is kinda sad considered how freaking annoying/hard it can be to get the Despair.  

[Xolgys]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb FlusteredFerret:

snippedysnip~

despair and kunai can be treated as MR fodder since even with a riven they do not compare vs any of the others with a comparable riven.

spira prime for example with orange crits from a 2/-1 cc/dmg riven hurt a lot even without any armor removal or status focus on their build. lv 130 heavy gunners fall with few headshots, which is impressive in comparison tho those who do literally close to nothing without armor removal/reduction and/or slash/viral.

no throwing weapon aside of the pox will be useful against really high level enemies because pox are not just a weapon but also a tool to CC and strip armor. with a +status duration riven u could also make it all the more potent due to longer cc form heat for example, if u wanted that and much longer toxin proccs, which it proccs by default. its prolly the only weapon on which i would consider +status duration really really good and would actually want on a riven alongside dmg/ms.

the other mentioned choices including spira prime are very good if u do not do really long endless runs and since most people stay below lv 150 enemy level, maybe even 120 i think u are free to pick ur favorite and should be fine.

[KittySkin]

No, they are not a good weapon. Thata aside, if you want to use a throwable secondary, go for spira prime, fusilai or hikou prime, they are good weapons and very different with each other 🙂

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, Xydeth said:

+status duration riven u could also make it all the more potent due to longer cc form heat for example,

 

Sadly +%Status Duration doesn't work for the animation based CC effects of Heat, Blast, Electric or Impact.

Oddly the only way to increase animation CC effects is to slow the enemy via Cold status or abilities.

Everything else right on target +%Status duration is esp strong on Gas + Cold builds since Slow also increases the number of DoT ticks. It essentially triple dips by increasing Cold duration which increases DoT duration on top of the already increased DoT duration. Throw in Primed Expel for it's double dip on DoT effects and you can get some pretty dumb DoTs going.

[(NSW)CthulhuAzathoth]

I got multiples copy all 3 because I turn broken war into war by mistake... 😞

Out of all 3, I use Hate the most, follow by Dread. IIRC,  I did not use Despair after I master it. Overall, all of his weapons drop are for show more then anything else. DE should buff all of them to catch up with newer weapon.

 

[(NSW)CthulhuAzathoth]

20 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Sadly +%Status Duration doesn't work for the animation based CC effects of Heat, Blast, Electric or Impact. 

Thanks, this explain why I am not getting the result I want. DE should put more useful information on the upgrade screen.

[Xolgys]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Xzorn:

 

Sadly +%Status Duration doesn't work for the animation based CC effects of Heat, Blast, Electric or Impact.

Oddly the only way to increase animation CC effects is to slow the enemy via Cold status or abilities.

Everything else right on target +%Status duration is esp strong on Gas + Cold builds since Slow also increases the number of DoT ticks. It essentially triple dips by increasing Cold duration which increases DoT duration on top of the already increased DoT duration. Throw in Primed Expel for it's double dip on DoT effects and you can get some pretty dumb DoTs going.

im running corr/cold for that specific reason since the forced toxin proccs last ~17 seconds with cold proccs on ~+110% status dura and can also only recommend it. when i tested it seemed like the heat/elec proccs stunned a bit longer too, maybe not twice as long but it seemed longer. might be a split calculation similar to blast, just a guess tho. blast...well blast but it does improve the cc time for sure, though not as much as the +dura amount would indicate. dont care about impact so dont know/dont care but i would assume its only really minor, if at all so i think the differences are just not too big to really "feel" but at least about heat/elec/blast im pretty sure it affects the cc time a bit.

in any case the most usefull combinations are corr/cold and gas/cold anyway in my opinion, but i think if someone still wanted to make use of elec or heat proccs CC +dura% at least wont make them worse and still improve the forced toxin proccs.

i dont like suggesting expels since i dislike them with a passion and think the double dips are not intended like this so personally i ignore that option, ur still right ofc. toxin proccs +cold are already an "intended" double dip from +dura% so to say and that pretty much kills any enemy of a reasonable level and even slightly beyond so thats already overkill in terms of synergy tbh.

 

[Autongnosis]

By the way you can use other slows as well to extend proc duration, not just cold proc. 

[taiiat]

Despair is ok.
pretty much all Thrown Secondaries that aren't Explosive are slightly above garbage Tier as far as i'm concerned since nowadays all of them got treated like Spira - i.e. their Accuracy being nerfed below the ground - and thusly the usage method of them is just push up Fire Rate and pray to RNG that things die when the game wants to punish you for trying to aim.

3 hours ago, KittySkin said:

or hikou prime

i wouldn't really recommend Hikou or Hikou Prime to Players as a Weapon to Kill Enemies with - it has nothing going for it in that department. sure, it can spam Corrosive Status, but it can't do anything other than that.
to do actual Damage you'd have to try and force it with Gas Status. but without Crits and meh Base Damage it's not going to be that impressive.

which ironically, fancy that, Despair has higher Base Damage, and decent Crits, while still featuring enough Status to.... spam Corrosive Status or whatever people would be planning to do with Status on this type of Weapon (since there isn't that much you could do with it)

Edited June 22, 2019 by taiiat

[George_PPS]

Hikou Prime with Concealed Explosive is my go-to choice for activating Chroma’s Vex Armor quickly and safely under control and not to sell oneself. There are also other choices to work similarly. These weapons are fun.