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LeMoog

Trading suggestion to prevent resale of items and abuse of alt accounts

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4 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

So you are saying that exploiting the need of other tenno is inline with the ethos?

I'd assume the tenno ethos would involve basic economics.

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4 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Look dude, you can see that everyone is against the idea, & we even provided plenty of reasons, drop it

 

You are right there have been a number of vested interests worried about their own middle man positions but that doesn't mean that others who care about the game will not post

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23 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

why not get the player who needs it to requisition it directly, whilst the friend giving the item away might be doing it for you surly you would not mind them becoming friends too?

Because most of the time I am randomly helping people out in region when I happen to notice someone needing one.

My friend also isn’t on 24/7, is not sociable and rarely interacts with anyone outside of their immediate Clan.

Would rather be able to help when I’m able to, rather than being a go between and putting said friend in an awkward position. 

So....

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52 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

I had thought that creating more than one warframe account was prohibited however I have recently met a number of players who were blaise about using alts  for reselling, given that many now check the the buyer's profile before trading.

To this end I suggest a small change to trading so that each item may be traded only once, this will still allow players to trade for plat and to obtain missing items but will prevent resellers using alt account since once the item is in the alt account then it can only be used for crafting.

I would imagine that those that employ alt accounts will be loudly against this however for those using a single account then I can see no downside. Everything that a non-alt player would want to do is still availible and knowing that when you gift an item to a new player in you clan it is not going to be passed on for resale by an alt abusing your charity

what good is reselling on an alt if you can't trade between your owned accounts? You're suggesting adding a trade limit for....why again?

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Ouch, this would mainly be hurting the market and fixing a very very small problem.

If you would like paying 10x more for your normal traded items, this is a very good way to do it. 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

 

You are right there have been a number of vested interests worried about their own middle man positions but that doesn't mean that others who care about the game will not post

Welp, I'll wait to see if some people actually agree then

EDIT: spoiler: none so far

Edited by Xenox_Ilz-ot
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3 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

I am  not judging merely pointing out that taking advantage of other players doesn't build a good community and if everyone takes than what pays for the updates? Who would want to invest time and money in a game with the toxic community you are supporting? I for one would like the game to continue to grow and have the community be interested in something other than  just their own tawdry  profit.

Just pointing out that your proposed solution cuts of a lot of avenues for "giving" as well. You're messing with peoples' ability to gift things to their friends, not just resellers/flippers, and definitely not just alt accounts. 

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2 minutes ago, trst said:

I'd assume the tenno ethos would involve basic economics.

basic as in the right to scam the ignorant?

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Posted (edited)

Owww, you didn't ever trade much yourself, did you?

Well, personally I do. I do it a lot. And I find rather annoying (MUCH annoying in fact) when I meet people who tell me things like "I'll get a person who will trade with you, wait a bit", then go away for 5-10 minutes, expecting me to wait. Because, do you realise, how often people message traders, when we have a lot on our lists? And all of them expect that we answer immediately and it's totally fine, noone wants to lose his time.

So, on contrary, when my friends need things and they're not online, but I see a good offer, I go and buy it for them. And I also buy things for them when they do not even have plat, because why not? I have it and I like to make presents x)

So, nope, what you suggest is absolutely NOT an option.

Edited by A.Licht
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Not only would this accomplish little to anything, but it would also just cause more problems than good. Gonna have to pass on this.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Ascarith said:

Just pointing out that your proposed solution cuts of a lot of avenues for "giving" as well. You're messing with peoples' ability to gift things to their friends, not just resellers/flippers, and definitely not just alt accounts. 

not so much giving which you do one to one but I can see that gifting might be extended to cover those occasions where the player in need is never online with the player with excess. If this was really something that was desired then extention of the gifting system would be a better solution since personal  profit is not an issue for you

 

Edited by LeMoog
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4 minutes ago, A.Licht said:

Owww, you didn't ever trade much yourself, did you?

Well, personally I do. I do it a lot. And I find rather annoying (MUCH annoying in fact) when I meet people who tell me things like "I'll get a person who will trade with you, wait a bit", then go away for 5-10 minutes, expecting me to wait. Because, do you realise, how often people message traders, when we have a lot on our lists? And all of them expect that we answer immediately and it's totally fine, noone wants to lose his time.

So, on contrary, when my friends need things and they're not online, but I see a good offer, I go and buy it for them. And I also buy things for them when they do not even have plat, because why not? I have it and I like to make presents x)

So, nope, what you suggest is absolutely NOT an option.

you are talking about being annoyed at sellers getting other players to promote their wares to get around the time out on trade posting and then say that you fill a similar role i.e. acting as an agent.

 

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33 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

 

You mean reselling i.e. profiting from the seller's ignorance? something that is going to hit less experienced players much harder that those that know the value of an item.

IMHO There is a reason that "middle men" and monopolists are seen as leeches upon society, I would have more sympathy if like me you had actually put money into the game rather than just taking advantage of the less experienced

 

ignorance is when u think u have any right to tell others how to do THEIR business

when baro comes some of us are too lazy to farm relics and we buy primed mods which he bring and re-sell them when there is higher demand on market for them
and its not like we use players who dont know propper price its same mechanics as in winter price of apples are higher than at summer

i often buy stuff for a clan mate who cant be online as much as i do and sellers are not always online when he come online 
and there are many of us that do so also

so in the end ur idea would hurt more ppl than fix any problem since there are less alt users than ppl who in fact benefit from re-trading stuff

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13 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

You are right there have been a number of vested interests worried about their own middle man positions but that doesn't mean that others who care about the game will not post

Depends what you mean by “care about the game”. I spent a reasonable amount of money on tennogen/plat (less so now). So, I care enough to spend money. I think this is a terrible idea. Not only would DE have to keep track of what had been traded, they would also have to hide it and explain the system to everyone. 

  • What about your new player friend that needs platinum? It is far better to give them free prime sets to sell than loads of platinum for an ammo drum. The second option sometimes gets the banned.

This is a bad idea that won’t have a positive effect. 

 

Can you explain why DE would want to limit the amount of times and item can be sold? Remember, someone has to buy the platinum. Why buy platinum when you might not be able to buy the things you want.

Spoiler

This would likely increase the prices of items too. You know, Supply and Demand. Where we are artificially reducing the supply. Yes, some of the demand would be lost too.

 

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48 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

how many times do you want to give them the same item? why is  once not enough if they are going to use it?

Well I for example, trade rivens back and forth between a couple friends. If one of us gets a god rolled riven or something, we like to loan it to each for various needs. 

So some of our rivens have been traded back and forth numerous times.

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21 minutes ago, EquinoxPrime said:

Because most of the time I am randomly helping people out in region when I happen to notice someone needing one.

My friend also isn’t on 24/7, is not sociable and rarely interacts with anyone outside of their immediate Clan.

Would rather be able to help when I’m able to, rather than being a go between and putting said friend in an awkward position. 

So....

 

see extention of gifting post

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3 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

you are talking about being annoyed at sellers getting other players to promote their wares to get around the time out on trade posting and then say that you fill a similar role i.e. acting as an agent.

 

Lol whut. I'm talking about people who want me to spend my time (missing sales while I'm doing it) waiting for them to get the actual person who needs an item. I'm totally not against agents, being an agent here is a right thing to do. 

Also yep, rivens people mentioned. Loaning them to friends is a thing. And old arcane helmets are also a thing. Augments too, no need to simply destroy the mod you paid for if you don't need it yourself, but someone does.

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1 minute ago, LeMoog said:

you are talking about being annoyed at sellers getting other players to promote their wares to get around the time out on trade posting and then say that you fill a similar role i.e. acting as an agent.

 

I think you're missing the point of this person's post.

The first part (i.e. "what annoys the poster") is there to explain why this poster does not feel it is practical to try and rustle up their friend any time the poster sees a good deal that said friend would want. The second part simply states that they straight up make the purchase in place of their friend. The implication is that they do this so that they don't have to waste the seller's time in trying to rustle up their friend.

Your proposed solution makes the second part impossible, so could potentially lead to an increase in the first part. Since the first part annoys this poster (and presumably other sellers), this poster does not feel this is a good outcome. Hence that poster's disagreement with your proposal. 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LeMoog said:

knowing that when you gift an item to a new player in you clan it is not going to be passed on for resale by an alt abusing your charity

you gave someone a riven to borrow didn't you and they sold it didn't they..... 

Edited by SilverRook
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20 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

basic as in the right to scam the ignorant?

Basic as in this all boils down to supply and demand: the most basic of basic economics.

Scamming someone would involve convincing or misleading them to believing something is worth more or less than what they think it is. This isn't what's being referred to.

And flipping doesn't require going above or below the current average; it's waiting for the average to drop enough to buy and raise enough to sell. There isn't a single scummy action in this process unless you're intentionally trying to low-ball or price gouge people.

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3 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Depends what you mean by “care about the game”. I spent a reasonable amount of money on tennogen/plat (less so now). So, I care enough to spend money. I think this is a terrible idea. Not only would DE have to keep track of what had been traded, they would also have to hide it and explain the system to everyone. 

  • What about your new player friend that needs platinum? It is far better to give them free prime sets to sell than loads of platinum for an ammo drum. The second option sometimes gets the banned.

This is a bad idea that won’t have a positive effect. 

 

Can you explain why DE would want to limit the amount of times and item can be sold? Remember, someone has to buy the platinum. Why buy platinum when you might not be able to buy the things you want.

  Hide contents

This would likely increase the prices of items too. You know, Supply and Demand. Where we are artificially reducing the supply. Yes, some of the demand would be lost too.

 

 

your "new player needing plat" and giving prime sets for them to sell rather than just giving them plat, new players have limited trades so lots of prime parts could not be traded as easily  as plat especially  when you factor in the trade tax

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45 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

I would have more sympathy if like me you had actually put money into the game rather than just taking advantage of the less experienced

Terrible idea. I invested into the game by purchasing various packs, including plat or not as well as standalone plat purchases yet I also made a fair share of my platinum by trading what I farmed, or flipping be it by purchasing missing parts for sets or just straight up reselling. Even though I rarely trade rivens for example, there are many who seek out bad rolls or unwanted rivens to roll them and make a profit.

Besides, alt accounts aren't prohibited. You are free to have as many accounts as you wish as long as you're not using them outside of ToS such as using them for storing rivens, reselling various items or keeping event exclusive rewards in pursue of IRL profit like selling the account. Those who do are banned sooner or later.

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3 minutes ago, SilverRook said:

you gave someone a riven to borrow didn't you and they sold it didn't they..... 

nope but I have given lots of stuff to players who left the game for good without ever using what I gave them.

 

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1 minute ago, LeMoog said:

nope but I have given lots of stuff to players who left the game for good without ever using what I gave them.

 

Well that's on you, nothing to do with the game trade mechanic

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Just now, LeMoog said:

nope but I have given lots of stuff to players who left the game for good without ever using what I gave them.

 

so have i - you should see all the MR0-8 players i have in my friends list that i have met in chat when they needed help and gave them exilus,potatos,slots,frames(if i was feeling nice) prime parts.... 

If you can't afford to part with it - DON'T 

Don't get salty that someone took your good charity and turned it into a better offer.
 

 

If i gave someone a saryn set for example and they decided to sell it instead of keep it ..... well thats entirely up to them, there is absolutely NOTHING you can do about.

Maybe check their profile to see if they already own it.....  

 

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