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LeMoog

Trading suggestion to prevent resale of items and abuse of alt accounts

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Also, let us think a bit.

You suggest that limiting items to just one trade will make alt accounts unusable. You know what? It won't. Why? Well, that's an easy question to answer. Let's imagine that I, for example, have two accounts and many things on them, but I can only sell things once. What do I do then? I sell them on both my accs separately, that's what. Then I give plat from one my acc to another. Also, as mentioned, such change will increase overall prices so I'll get even more. 

So basically what you say is just causing lots of problems and not even close to a solution ūüėú

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22 minutes ago, ZeroZX4 said:

ignorance is when u think u have any right to tell others how to do THEIR business

when baro comes some of us are too lazy to farm relics and we buy primed mods which he bring and re-sell them when there is higher demand on market for them
and its not like we use players who dont know propper price its same mechanics as in winter price of apples are higher than at summer

i often buy stuff for a clan mate who cant be online as much as i do and sellers are not always online when he come online 
and there are many of us that do so also

so in the end ur idea would hurt more ppl than fix any problem since there are less alt users than ppl who in fact benefit from re-trading stuff

ignorance is ONLY a lack of knowledge, in this case that the reseller is buying  the item for less than they could sell it for, personally when I trade it is ONLY for items I have obtained myself by playing the game

Converting prime parts for baro items would not be trading them so unaffected

Buying stuff to gift would be unaffected since again it doesn't matter if the gifted item is untradable since you are giving it to be used, if you want to gift them plat then you still could.

 

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42 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

 

You mean reselling i.e. profiting from the seller's ignorance? something that is going to hit less experienced players much harder that those that know the value of an item.

IMHO There is a reason that "middle men" and monopolists are seen as leeches upon society, I would have more sympathy if like me you had actually put money into the game rather than just taking advantage of the less experienced

 

I've spent hundreds of dollars on this game and thousands of hours. This is a terrible idea, possibly the worst I've ever seen on these forums and that's saying something. 

Most people don't want to wait when they're buying or selling things. Flippers offer the service of buying out people who want to make a sale and selling to people who want to instantly buy something. People who sell to or buy off of flippers don't care about making the absolute maximum profit from their sale, they're looking to get it done in a timely manner. Flippers offer a service to people who value their time. They aren't leeching from anybody, they're offering a service to people who are looking to save time in exchange for profit. I'm a hard line communist and I support the flippers right to profit, you've obviously flat out never involved yourself in any serious manner of trading if you're holding this position. Furthermore your entire solution is to a non issue in the game. If clan mates are selling things you're giving to them for them to use then either kick them for it or stop giving them more things. It's a non issue, and even if it wasn't banning re selling is a non solution.

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11 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

yourÔĽŅ "new player needing plat" and giving prime sets for them to sell rather than just giving them plat, new players have limited tradeÔĽŅs so lots of prime parts could not be traded as easily ¬†as plat especially¬† when you factor in the trade tax

I am glad you misunderstood what I said. Did you read what I posted? 

  • Free prime sets to sell later. Because time can actually pass and they get their trades back.¬†
  • Platinum should not be traded in grossly unbalanced trades. Would you accept 2k plat for an ammo drum? Because this is what gets you flagged and banned. DE cannot change this system because people would farm plat discounts.

You are also discounting rivens and Arcanes. There is a fairly good reselling market for these. Many people (myself included) are too lazy to get a good roll to sell, or a full set of Arcanes. What is your problem with someone buying them to do what I was too lazy for and then reselling them for a small profit? I certainly don‚Äôt have an issue with it. Telling people that this is bad sure seems like the ‚Äėtoxic community‚Äô you don‚Äôt want.

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6 minutes ago, A.Licht said:

Also, let us think a bit.

You suggest that limiting items to just one trade will make alt accounts unusable. You know what? It won't. Why? Well, that's an easy question to answer. Let's imagine that I, for example, have two accounts and many things on them, but I can only sell things once. What do I do then? I sell them on both my accs separately, that's what. Then I give plat from one my acc to another. Also, as mentioned, such change will increase overall prices so I'll get even more. 

So basically what you say is just causing lots of problems and not even close to a solution ūüėú

I am saying that alt accounts being used by resellers to beg parts for sale via their main account would be prevented, that these resellers are making alts to get around sellers seeing that they already have the item via their profile. It was on the first page so I can understand you missing it

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5 minutes ago, Firetrucksrule said:

I've spent hundreds of dollars on this game and thousands of hours. This is a terrible idea, possibly the worst I've ever seen on these forums and that's saying something. 

Most people don't want to wait when they're buying or selling things. Flippers offer the service of buying out people who want to make a sale and selling to people who want to instantly buy something. People who sell to or buy off of flippers don't care about making the absolute maximum profit from their sale, they're looking to get it done in a timely manner. Flippers offer a service to people who value their time. They aren't leeching from anybody, they're offering a service to people who are looking to save time in exchange for profit. I'm a hard line communist and I support the flippers right to profit, you've obviously flat out never involved yourself in any serious manner of trading if you're holding this position. Furthermore your entire solution is to a non issue in the game. If clan mates are selling things you're giving to them for them to use then either kick them for it or stop giving them more things. It's a non issue, and even if it wasn't banning re selling is a non solution.

your's is an opinion but I suggest that few  interested players see that someone else making the majority of the profit off their item is something that would make them happy even when you point out that they could have waited and sold it for more. I am not guessing here their have been studies in cooperative behaviour that back it up so I must discount it.

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6 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

to get around sellers seeing that they already have the item via their profile

And what would it prove? I've got two Volt Primes, two Nova Primes, some other duplicate prime warframes and weapons built and used in my own arsenal. I need them this way, you know, different builds do exist.

Also personally I didn't even think that checking may be a thing until you mentioned it. People give me plat I ask, why should I bother how they'll use things? It's their business, not mine. 

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13 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

I am saying that alt accounts being used by resellers to beg parts for sale via their main account would be prevented, that these resellers are making alts to get around sellers seeing that they already have the item via their profile. It was on the first page so I can understand you missing it

I read it before I made my first post. That still doesn’t answer any of my questions, or address much. So, you are happy to let rivens, Arcanes and everything other than prime parts be resold? Why? I am unsure how well thought out this is. 

22 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

BuyingÔĽŅ stuff to gift would be unaffected since again it doesn't matter if the gifted item is untradable since you are giving it to be used, if you want to gift them plat then you still couldÔĽŅ.

Now, explain how I can resell the items that I just purchased. I thought the whole point in your system was to stop this, but here you are saying ‚Äúdo it‚ÄĚ.¬†Yes, you suggested changing the gifting system (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that this is what you meant). You should not plan your change around even more unlikely changes.

  • This system would be used to exploit silly people. If you let me gift prime parts to people why would I not just say ‚Äúcan I have 200 plat and I will gift you the stuff after‚ÄĚ? Your suggestions will allow so many more scams to take place. I am sure you have considered this though, how will these be mitigated? For extra information: have a look at console item discount scams.

 

I do do not think this system is a good idea. I doubt anything would be achieved by it - well, unless you count annoying your players?

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  • Your solution won't affect alt accounts but people that use their main accouts too.
  • Stop using words/phrases you are not familiar with and try to explain stuff as simple as possible.¬†
  • Seems you lack some knownledge regarding the Supply and Demand.¬†
  • Lastly, this whole thing seems like it started because you (Player A) gifted something to a new player (Player B) that player B sold your Gift/Item, you got salty and went on forums to give terrible ideas without thinking straight.¬†

All in all, let's just forget that you posted this because this whole endless conversation of people pointing your fatal flaws about your solution and you desperately trying to defend yourself will never end. The idea seems bad, is bad, won't benefit anyone. 

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13 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I am glad you misunderstood what I said. Did you read what I posted? 

  • Free prime sets to sell later. Because time can actually pass and they get their trades back.¬†
  • Platinum should not be traded in grossly unbalanced trades. Would you accept 2k plat for an ammo drum? Because this is what gets you flagged and banned. DE cannot change this system because people would farm plat discounts.

You are also discounting rivens and Arcanes. There is a fairly good reselling market for these. Many people (myself included) are too lazy to get a good roll to sell, or a full set of Arcanes. What is your problem with someone buying them to do what I was too lazy for and then reselling them for a small profit? I certainly don‚Äôt have an issue with it. Telling people that this is bad sure seems like the ‚Äėtoxic community‚Äô you don‚Äôt want.

I think you are reaching here

limited trades means that you cannot give them plat quickly and "sell later" when you still have to give them the items

"grossly unbalanced" this is because of hacked accounts but just reversing the gifting would be easier to restore stolen items, something that could be done without bothering support

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3 minutes ago, 404.NameNoTFound said:
  • Your solution won't affect alt accounts but people that use their main accouts too.
  • Stop using words/phrases you are not familiar with and try to explain stuff as simple as possible.¬†
  • Seems you lack some knownledge regarding the Supply and Demand.¬†
  • Lastly, this whole thing seems like it started because you (Player A) gifted something to a new player (Player B) that player B sold your Gift/Item, you got salty and went on forums to give terrible ideas without thinking straight.¬†

All in all, let's just forget that you posted this because this whole endless conversation of people pointing your fatal flaws about your solution and you desperately trying to defend yourself will never end. The idea seems bad, is bad, won't benefit anyone. 

no you are wrong on all points

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1 minute ago, LeMoog said:

I think you are reaching here

limited trades means that you cannot give them plat quickly and "sell later" when you still have to give them the items

"grossly unbalanced" this is because of hacked accounts but just reversing the gifting would be easier to restore stolen items, something that could be done without bothering support

Oh well. You are still totally misunderstanding everything I put. Or perhaps just ignoring me because I disagree (that’s a fairly common thing). Not sure which, don’t really care. Your system is terrible and will never get implemented anyway. 

  • You view it as a problem for whatever reason, no one else does. Why fix something that is good how it is?

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Just now, -AS-Delimit said:

Creating a solution to a nonexistent problem? 

null just because you say you have no knowledge if it does not mean it does not exist, I posted that it does and have proof are you saying anything other than I am a liar?

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38 minutes ago, A.Licht said:

Also, let us think a bit.

You suggest that limiting items to just one trade will make alt accounts unusable. You know what? It won't. Why? Well, that's an easy question to answer. Let's imagine that I, for example, have two accounts and many things on them, but I can only sell things once. What do I do then? I sell them on both my accs separately, that's what. Then I give plat from one my acc to another. Also, as mentioned, such change will increase overall prices so I'll get even more. 

So basically what you say is just causing lots of problems and not even close to a solution ūüėú

why do you have more than one account? when anything traded between becomes untradable unless you are saying that you had already moved them well it will take some time to deal with the problem but once the change is in place then new alts would be useless for reselling as I said. 

As to moving the plat via trading then that has been covered in this thread by others i.e. repeat occurance is monitored by DE if you are talking about gifting then a small trade tax in plat would not be an issue for the altruists out there.

 

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1 minute ago, LeMoog said:

why do you have more than one account? when anything traded between becomes¬†untradable unless you are saying that you had already moved them well it will take some time to deal with the problem but once the change is in place then new alts would be useless for reselling as I saidÔĽŅ

 

Lol whut (2). I do not, I said "imagine if I do". But if you can't resell things then alt accounts will become even more useful. Because there are events which give mods only once. And if people can't buy those mods from ones who decide to sell them instead of using themselves, to sell later when time pass and demand is higher, they'll make another acc and farm it. (well, some already do, but your suggested trade limit will make even more of those people). Then, keep it. Then, sell it when time is right. And just gift plat to main acc, if your suggestion about extended gifting also gets into a game. 

But all this talk becomes boring at this point. Not even saying pointless, cause this is what it was from the very start.

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What is this thread even about anymore? Did we ever "solve" the problem of people wanting to nab good deals for their friends?

Or is this thread just about throwing mud at each other, pretending like character attacks are equivalent to actual logic, and trying to flex on each other with weird/arbitrary metrics? Seriously. OP seems to have an attitude problem, but a lot of folks responding to OP seem just as bad...

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13 minutes ago, Ascarith said:

What is this thread even about anymore? Did we ever "solve" the problem of people wanting to nab good deals for their friends?

Or is this thread just about throwing mud at each other, pretending like character attacks are equivalent to actual logic, and trying to flex on each other with weird/arbitrary metrics? Seriously. OP seems to have an attitude problem, but a lot of folks responding to OP seem just as bad...

"nab good deals" is still possible as would be everything but reselling and bothering to make an alt to do the same.

I can understand those that want to profit from other's work complaining but since they seem to be the only posters then I guess no one else cares about the cost

I don't have an attitude problem as you suggest but perhaps I have made some people think by raising a moral issue such that they feel the need to be abusive, something that was not unexpected since the issue of alts reselling charitible gifts is hardly defensible and highlighting it might cut down their revenue.

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1 hour ago, -AS-Delimit said:

Creating a solution to a nonexistent problem? 

Welcome to modern problem solving, I blame the common core math in schools these days.

On-topic: Punishing the masses for the actions of a mere handful is a fast track method to irritating your consumer base, which is why DE would never implement anything like this.

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20 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

"nab good deals" is still possible as would be everything but reselling and bothering to make an alt to do the same.

I can understand those that want to profit from other's work complaining but since they seem to be the only posters then I guess no one else cares about the cost

I don't have an attitude problem as you suggest but perhaps I have made some people think by raising a moral issue such that they feel the need to be abusive, something that was not unexpected since the issue of alts reselling charitible gifts is hardly defensible and highlighting it might cut down their revenue.

This is starting to sound less and less like "stop alt accounts" and more like "stop traders"

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31 minutes ago, LeMoog said:

"nab good deals" is still possible as would be everything but reselling and bothering to make an alt to do the same.

I can understand those that want to profit from other's work complaining but since they seem to be the only posters then I guess no one else cares about the cost

I don't have an attitude problem as you suggest but perhaps I have made some people think by raising a moral issue such that they feel the need to be abusive, something that was not unexpected since the issue of alts reselling charitible gifts is hardly defensible and highlighting it might cut down their revenue.

Help me understand how your system allows "nab good deals" but restricts reselling. I might have missed that when I skimmed through the rest of the thread. 

Hopefully you'll also forgive me for putting little stock in someone's own assessment of his/her attitude. To (maybe) clarify, my perception you have an attitude problem doesn't stem from the content (idea-wise) of your posts or the position you've taken. It comes from the manner in which you've attempted to defend against counterarguments. 

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Free market is not perfect but it is the best thing. Items are to be traded as many times as players want between players. The proposal is beyond ridiculous. Please THINK with your brain cells before you post. If you do not like trading, you do not have to trade. 

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3 hours ago, LeMoog said:

 

You mean reselling i.e. profiting from the seller's ignorance? something that is going to hit less experienced players much harder that those that know the value of an item.

IMHO There is a reason that "middle men" and monopolists are seen as leeches upon society, I would have more sympathy if like me you had actually put money into the game rather than just taking advantage of the less experienced

 

It’s a free market so there are no monopolists unless you are talking about exclusive items but you DO NOT need to buy any of these if you think so. 

For the middle men idea, it’s totally false. All items are traded at the agreed upon values. And they can be traded again and the prices are market values. If you do not like how pricy particular items are, you can always try to get them at higher prices and sell them cheap or cheaper to benefit others since you have such high morality and are just. 

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2 hours ago, krc473 said:

I read it before I made my first post. That still doesn’t answer any of my questions, or address much. So, you are happy to let rivens, Arcanes and everything other than prime parts be resold? Why? I am unsure how well thought out this is. 

Now, explain how I can resell the items that I just purchased. I thought the whole point in your system was to stop this, but here you are saying ‚Äúdo it‚ÄĚ.¬†Yes, you suggested changing the gifting system (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that this is what you meant). You should not plan your change around even more unlikely changes.

  • This system would be used to exploit silly people. If you let me gift prime parts to people why would I not just say ‚Äúcan I have 200 plat and I will gift you the stuff after‚ÄĚ? Your suggestions will allow so many more scams to take place. I am sure you have considered this though, how will these be mitigated? For extra information: have a look at console item discount scams.

 

I do do not think this system is a good idea. I doubt anything would be achieved by it - well, unless you count annoying your players?

I do not  mind if the changes to trade are across the board, if you think it will help without problems then fine, I welcome improvements

As to the classic Whimpie "I will gladly paid you next Tuesday", whilst it is possible that a small players may be willing to part with their items on a promise most people are aware that "my word is my bond" is long gone, sadly.

I disagree with your assessment of the proposed change's benefit, there is a problem and most of the posts here have IMHO  attempted to prevent anyone addressing it.

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