Just me or projectile based weapons are really slow?

[CuChulainnWD]

On 2019-06-24 at 2:45 AM, YazMatazO said:

Speaking of which, when are we getting the bullet drop/angle/planetary body spin compensation equations when firing a sniper rifle? And where is my damn spotter? 

 

I know it is a joke, but the ranges we deal with do not require planetary spin factors. DE saw to that when they nerfed sniper rifle scope magnifications.

Edited June 27, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[nslay]

1 hour ago, CuChulainnWD said:

I know it is a joke, but the ranges we deal with do not require planetary spin factors. DE saw to that when they nerfed sniper rifle scope magnifications.

They were nerfed? The sniper scope magnifications are still far too much for normal missions... heck even when hunting Eidolons you can see Teralyst's nose hairs with sniper scopes!

[Renegade343]

42 minutes ago, nslay said:

They were nerfed? The sniper scope magnifications are still far too much for normal missions... heck even when hunting Eidolons you can see Teralyst's nose hairs with sniper scopes!

Wish granted, all sniper scopes now have less than 1x magnification.

[nslay]

1 minute ago, Renegade343 said:

Wish granted, all sniper scopes now have less than 1x magnification.

Lanka and Vulkar Wraith have 8x zoom mode. Do you really need that to see a Grineer Lancer 20m away? Or to shoot that Teralyst in the head? At 4x, the Teralyst's head takes up the entire viewable area of the game! It's dumb...

[Renegade343]

Just now, nslay said:

Lanka and Vulkar Wraith have 8x zoom mode. Do you really need that to see a Grineer Lancer 20m away? Or to shoot that Teralyst in the head? At 4x, the Teralyst's head takes up the entire viewable area of the game! It's dumb...

Yes. We need to see every detail of the Grineer who realized he's about to die and nothing will stop it.

[844448]

On 2019-06-25 at 12:54 AM, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Well, if projectiles were as fast as hitscan, what would be the point of making them projectiles then?

you can hit enemies at thousands of kilometres away on the trigger pull with hitscan (infinite projectile speed) while projectiles need some time to reach that far

[844448]

7 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

This is a classic video game trope, going back as far as Doom: hitscan weak but easy, projectiles slow but strong. The need to lead your shots so heavily (compared to real life) is by design

This is reflected in Warframe constantly. Check these tables:

  Hide contents

Hitscan: Gorgon 25 damage, Gorgon Wraith 27 damage, Gorgon Prisma 23 damage

Projectile: Supra and Supra Vandal 40 damage

Hitscan: Corinth 540 damage

Projectile: Arca Plasmor 600 damage

Hitscan: Vectis crit chance 25%

Projectile: Dread crit chance 50%

Hitscan: Karak 29 damage, Karak Wraith 31 damage

Projectile: Dera 30 damage, Dera Vandal 32 damage

This is even carried over to the enemies (or it used to be, before the Corpus got nerfed), where the Grineer can barely scratch you but also cannot be dodged, while the Corpus and Corrupted can (or could) push your rectum right in but quick maneuvering could dodge most of their shots

well, vectis has 25% while lanka also have 25% as sniper rifles, vectis prime on the other hand has 30% crit chance and higher fire rate

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, 844448 said:

well, vectis has 25% while lanka also have 25% as sniper rifles, vectis prime on the other hand has 30% crit chance and higher fire rate

I deliberately didn't use Vectis Prime. But if you (and @Renegade343) want to bring up Lanka to replace Dread on my table, how's this?

Hitscan: Vectis 225 damage, Snipetron 180 damage

Projectile: Lanka 525 damage

[844448]

23 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I deliberately didn't use Vectis Prime. But if you (and @Renegade343) want to bring up Lanka to replace Dread on my table, how's this?

Hitscan: Vectis 225 damage, Snipetron 180 damage

Projectile: Lanka 525 damage

525 damage on full charge, where vectis prime have already shot 2 rounds during that time or 200 on uncharged shots so it's not that hard hitting as projectile weapon

[-Krism-]

6 hours ago, 844448 said:

you can hit enemies at thousands of kilometres away on the trigger pull with hitscan (infinite projectile speed) while projectiles need some time to reach that far

That's exactly what I was saying

[Renegade343]

5 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I deliberately didn't use Vectis Prime. But if you (and @Renegade343) want to bring up Lanka to replace Dread on my table, how's this?

Hitscan: Vectis 225 damage, Snipetron 180 damage

Projectile: Lanka 525 damage

Lanka's 525 damage on full charge, 200 damage on uncharged, although this one kind of balances out, in a somewhat rare case.

[EvilChaosKnight]

Actually, why do we even have hitscan?
It's a relic of an old era of gaming when 300+m/s projectiles weren't exactly feasable. It also makes fighting enemies using it pretty un-fun in a fast-paced game like WF because you can't dodge the light speed. Not to mention how on PoE you can't even see what is shooting you in a lot of cases. You could say it's somewhat realistic, but in realistic scenarios one can spot distant enemies due to their muzzle flashes and following smoke. In WF the former work half of the time at very best and the latter doesn't exist.

So IMO all bullet weapons should just be >350m/s tracer projectiles (subject to balancing on case to case basis of course), and only full on laser beams like Opticor should be truly hitscan.

Also +60% on Terminal Velocity still puts "hi-tech space era" weapons well below industrial era primitive chemical explosive-propelled bullets. You'd think that with increased distances of engagement (space, open plains of barren planets and etc), weapons would be designed to have much faster projectiles, not slower, but that's a discussion for another time I suppose.

[Midas]

Run Zephyr

[Makunogo]

well long as you arent trying to SNIPE enemies with projectile weapons you should not have much issue. lol

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Actually, why do we even have hitscan?

Player satisfaction. You get home from a long day at work, you want to grind out some Nightwave or some Relics or something, you just want to shoot. Hitscan is nice and uncomplicated

9 hours ago, 844448 said:

where vectis prime

For the second time, I deliberately excluded Prime weapons from my table. If Lanka Vandal ever exists, we can talk about Vectis Prime

[844448]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

For the second time, I deliberately excluded Prime weapons from my table. If Lanka Vandal ever exists, we can talk about Vectis Prime

Even with vectis prime excluded, you still have snipers with higher fire rate that able to out damage lanka while you spend that one second charging to have that 525 damage or it's merely 200 damage like vectis

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, 844448 said:

Even with vectis prime excluded, you still have snipers with higher fire rate that able to out damage lanka while you spend that one second charging to have that 525 damage or it's merely 200 damage like vectis

Except we really don't. Snipetron, Snipetron Vandal, Rubico, Vulkar, none of them were really a match for Lanka. It wasn't until we got to Vulkar Wraith, Vectis Prime, and Rubico Prime that anything could even come close to Lanka

Once again, projectiles are stronger than hitscan on paper with the downside of being harder to use