Negative Hostile Mergers Feedback

[(PSN)TX193]

I've had two genuinely awful experiences in Warframe in my life. This operation is one of them. The game mode as a whole is not fun. Demolysts are not engaging or interesting enemies because they primarily ignore you to make a bee line for the conduit. Outside of a single seemingly scripted animation that they'll do once upon seeing someone, they're extremely boring. The MOA one seems bugged as well. Either that or it has fundamentally different mechanics with no obvious Achilles heel or explanation. The game mode is not fun; you're punished for trying to find the demolyst, and you're punished for not. Besides that, their nullifying abilities mean that a lot of obvious ways to use warframes to help with the mission just don't work, and, to me, it's not obvious that any warframe is the right pick or has a decent play style in this mode. That's not a good thing; having many ways to play a mode is great. Having none is depressing.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, I hate these endurance style time sink modes, and I can tell you exactly why; I spend a considerable amount of personal time running these missions, only to fail close to the end and receive nothing in exchange. Without any kind of incremental rewards to serve as a consolation prize, a failure is a devastating waste of time and effort that is so demoralizing that it has deterred me from opening Warframe for months in the past. Even something as simple as 200k credits would help ease the pain.

[krc473]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)TX193 said:

That's not a good thing; having many ways to play a mode is great. Having none is depressing.

I found one good way to play this operation. You take an Inaros and Paracesis, that is all you need (edit: a decent primary and secondary for mobs, melee is for Demolysts). My group of four easily made it to 13k points with this method - we stopped because we had enough points for a Gold trophy, we could have gone on longer. I agree though, the new game mode is not great. The rotation rewards are pretty mediocre and the mission is fairly unengaging.

10 minutes ago, (PS4)TX193 said:

a failure is a devastating waste of time and effort that is so demoralizing that it has deterred me from opening Warframe for months in the past.

Do you think these rewards should be applied to all endless missions, or just events?

Edited June 24, 2019 by krc473

[(PSN)TX193]

3 minutes ago, krc473 said:

You take an Inaros and Paracesis

I hadn't considered Paracesis' bonus damage against sentients. We tried using two Mesas and it didn't work out. Enemies scaled faster than our damage and eventually we wiped on a toxin damage bonus.

4 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Do you think these rewards should be applied to all endless missions, or just events?

That's an interesting question I hadn't considered. I'd say that I don't think the bonuses are necessary for other endless missions, but that's because my objective in the other missions is something I am incrementally achieving. For example, if I'm going for relics I'll do four rounds, then if I know I can easily do more I will, otherwise I restart. If I'm going for affinity, I stop whenever I have enough or can't kill enemies fast enough. Basically, I never have a reason to go for an hour, and I usually think that anyone pushing themselves to go that long is doing it just to see how long they can go, at which point there is no real failure; every passing second is the reward. With these challenges, on the other hand, there is a material reward, but it requires non stop attention for a lot longer than I would normally run a mission, and into enemy difficulties that I usually avoid so I can better enjoy the game. The normal rewards for doing disruption don't count to me because I could just get those running the mission normally.

 

I think the challenge to do more, to push myself and work on my builds, is great. But it feels like... I don't know. Like there's no reward for challenging myself if I fail, and therefore unless I'm certain it's a waste to even try, but there's no other content to practice on to get better, so I normally don't bother.

[LSG501]

Honestly... I think I played it a few times during the event, to get the clan points and enough hexanon and then I've basically avoided it... don't actually think anyone in my clan has bothered with it since either.

For me it's just not 'fun', it's not really a new game mode, it's essentially just a new enemy, that ignores, in an indoor 'excavation'.  You don't even see enough of the new sentient hybrid enemies (it's not just here, it's all over jupiter) to make it interesting it's just the same old corpus units as usual.

[krc473]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)TX193 said:

I hadn't considered Paracesis' bonus damage against sentients. We tried using two Mesas and it didn't work out. Enemies scaled faster than our damage and eventually we wiped on a toxin damage bonus.

What my group did was play around in Simulacrum a bit first to test stuff. Well, two of us, the others were more just ‘carriers of keys’. The bonus damage to sentients works out quite well, grab a decent build (I could share mine later if you like) and just use a tank frame. Basically, Cleaving Whirlwind, Berserker, Damage and Crit mods. Inaros was the best frame choice due to CC, and the ability to heal using said CC. Even four seconds of CC is useful when you need to kill only one enemy. We did try a bunch of other gear/frames too, none of them came close to this setup.

10 minutes ago, (PS4)TX193 said:

That's an interesting question I hadn't considered. I'd say that I don't think the bonuses are necessary for other endless missions, but that's because my objective in the other missions is something I am incrementally achieving

That is a fair point. It would be easier to justify that just on special event runs this should happen. But then you have the issue of consistency and complaints - people might complain about it not being present on other endless missions. You could just say “every 30 minutes you get a bonus regardless of completion/failure” and apply it to all endless missions.

10 minutes ago, (PS4)TX193 said:

but there's no other content to practice on to get better, so I normally don't bother.

We do have the Simulacrum. That works alright, and you can go with your friends.

 

I can also agree with what LSG501 says: once my group had enough points no one has gone back to the new mode. I doubt anyone will either. 

Edited June 24, 2019 by krc473
Autocorrected

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

20 minutes ago, krc473 said:

We did try a bunch of other gear/frames too, none of them came close to this setup.

Me and my friend were doing this event in a duo in an attempt to get our Ghost clan enough score for a gold trophy. We used Nova and Loki with decent Zaws built for crits (although I think my friend was mostly using Amprex) and also Magus Lockdowns for additional CC against Demolysts. Basically we kept everyone on the field slowed and disarmed. Demolysts are succeptible to slow for the most part, outside of the time where they have their nullifying tick, so they move a bit and then slow down again. We had plenty of time to find him early, and then just smash him with Zaw. Would be even easier with Condition Overload, but neither of us had it. Later on I also slapped additional slowness from Zenurik's Temporal Blast to be even safer (I wish I had remembered about it a bit earlier though) We did a 10k run, and we definitely could go on for a bit more, but we were kinda worried about potential disconnect, since it was basically the last attempt we could do, so we just bailed to get a Gold trophy.

I agree that failing and getting absolutely zero is probably the worst feeling you can get. I don't think it's good when people feel like they've wasted their time for nothing, trying to push for something harder. I think it would be nice if we kept some of the rewards on fail, and I believe it should happen in pretty much every gamemode we have, not just this one.

 

As for the mode in general, I think it's not that bad. It's something different from the rest, which is always good. There are a couple complaints that I have, mostly revolving around color/design choices. For example I don't think it was a good idea to have a Red key and conduit, while the most important mark on the sceen (the Demolyst mark) is also red. I guess I got used to it over time, but it confused the hell out of me at first. Also I think Demolyst mark could appear for everybody, once at least one player get it on their screen. But in general I did enjoy this mode, and I think I'll play it more.