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Ivara's prowl, is mobility limitation necessary?

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1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

Who cares about Loki, Ash is also able to make himself invisible - Octavia, Wukong or even Wisp also have invisibility powers. Only Ivara has to rely upon ridiculous and slow movements, perhaps it was fair or balanced at start but now she's only quite dated.

I don't mind less speed but no sprint nor bulletjump is just plain dumb now. Anyway Loki is way more viable energy wise, Ivara costs a lot since she's channeling both her prowl and her artemis bow. I don't even see why Ivara is the frame who got the movement penalty - did she really deserve such thing in the first place ?

What you would want to do is transform Ivara into a Lokivara. There is literally no point for DE to even think about doing that. That's as dumb as asking DE to change Ember to be able to place Fiery Spores on enemies that spread when you shoot on it to make her on par with Saryn.

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2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Who cares about Loki, Ash is also able to make himself invisible - Octavia, Wukong or even Wisp also have invisibility powers. Only Ivara has to rely upon ridiculous and slow movements, perhaps it was fair or balanced at start but now she's only quite dated.

I don't mind less speed but no sprint nor bulletjump is just plain dumb now. Anyway Loki is way more viable energy wise, Ivara costs a lot since she's channeling both her prowl and her artemis bow. I don't even see why Ivara is the frame who got the movement penalty - did she really deserve such thing in the first place ?

Dated?  Ivara is borderline broken (well, in Warframe terms anyway).  If you think she's dated, I'd love to see your idea of state-of-the-art.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Dated?  Ivara is borderline broken (well, in Warframe terms anyway).  If you think she's dated, I'd love to see your idea of state-of-the-art.

That would be because he either doesn't play her enough to know better or hasn't played her in a solo environment.  That's the only reason I can think of for someone to think that she's "dated".  LOL

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Simple answer? No of course it's not needed. Part of the problem is they tend to keep re-balancing frames and balance decisions made years ago result in modern times having frames be much, much too weak to live up to their intended role. 

Now. For certain missions, Ivara has a very strong kit. Spys she can just walk through anything and not be detected, even laser fields, you have to use the right mods for it but no other frame is good for spy missions....................except limbo.....or ash... Or loki, or.......never mind. She is good for certain defence missions, for one, the ai doesn't typically "look up" so you can build a "web" over a defense point and just rain bullets down and most things don't bother you. And with empowered arrow you get bonus crit and also can shoot cloaking arrows that make you immune from status effects, which can be great for those damned meandering defense targers who won't stop walking around.

What makes more sense is for the decay of your stalk to be set to how fast your moving, sprinting increases drain by x amount, jumping has a fixed drain, stuff like that... I wouldn't mind changing stalk so it no longer breaks invisibility to sprint but just increases drain, then counter that with a new augment "vampiric assassin", assassination kills while stalking will disintegrate targets and replenish an amount of energy based on ability strength.

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Posted (edited)
Il y a 20 heures, (XB1)Thy Divinity a dit :

Dated?  Ivara is borderline broken (well, in Warframe terms anyway).  If you think she's dated, I'd love to see your idea of state-of-the-art.

Topic is about stealth. I don't know what you're talking about but certainly not the same thing. Ivara's stealth mechanics is nowhere near broken. And i don't care about her bow or anything else cause threads aren't made to talk about out of subject stuff.

Edited by 000l000

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Posted (edited)
Il y a 21 heures, Chewarette a dit :

What you would want to do is transform Ivara into a Lokivara. There is literally no point for DE to even think about doing that. That's as dumb as asking DE to change Ember to be able to place Fiery Spores on enemies that spread when you shoot on it to make her on par with Saryn.

Loki doesn't have any speed limitation, so what are you talking about ? Don't know who's dumb here at this point.

I'd prefer a speed limitation than not being able to use half of whole game's movements, at least you can buff sprint speed as opposed to dull rolls. To each their own, i know it hurts but one may have different opinions you know - being insulting won't help much.

Edited by 000l000

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I see no reason to the lack of mobility, we got a lot of better options to stealth spy actually without this penalty.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Topic is about stealth.

And no where in the description of stealth does speed EVER come up.   don't believe me, just do a search on the word "Stealth". 

Just saying.  😄

Edit:  heck even the name of her ability SAYS exactly what you're doing when using her.  PROWLING. 

Edited by DatDarkOne
edited for clarity
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8 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Topic is about stealth. I don't know what you're talking about but certainly not the same thing. Ivara's stealth mechanics is nowhere near broken. And i don't care about her bow or anything else cause threads aren't made to talk about out of subject stuff.

Ok.  

If you think she is all just about stealth and the bow tells me all I need to know.  And fyi, all forms of stealth are busted in this game.  You are either trolling or greatly misinformed.

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Honestly, they could probably cement Ivara's role as "the stealth frame that doesn't like moving too much" just by changing how Prowl's energy cost works. Like, instead of adding a drain per time when moving, make it drain per distance. This would still give it a minimal cost when lying in wait (zero movement means zero added energy cost), but allow for Ivara to move quickly at an ever increasing cost. This would mean that parkouring across a room would cost just as much extra energy as sluggishly jogging across the room does now, but the potential of running through your energy bar too quickly would give it a fun risk vs reward mechanic that's more than measured enough to evoke the word "prowl".

If you balance the numbers correctly, Loki would still always come out on top in terms of distance traveled per energy, and Ivara would still have dramatically higher energy efficiency when movement is kept to a minimum. This may require lowering Ivara's base movement speed a bit to make sure she can't easily sprint through Spy missions without regards to energy, but being able to actually use that speed while cloaked means she'll still feel faster. This avoids jeopardizing Loki's stealth speedrun champion position, while giving Ivara enough of a concession that she can reposition midbattle to actually make use of her nifty gadgetry.

Nobody loses, everyone wins.

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On 2019-08-18 at 7:41 PM, KynaTiona said:

Definitely interesting. The rising use over higher MR is easy to explain by more people actually having her (such a pain to farm >_<), but her having been used more than Ash and Octavia is strange. Could you link me to these statistics you've mentioned? I found a post claiming to have the statistics for Aug 8 - 15, but I can't find the data prior to the March 7 hotfix that fixed the bug allowing bullet jumps during Prowl. She seems to have dropped from 17th to 20th during that time, well below Loki at 5th and Ash at 15th, though I'd believe those numbers a bit more if I could compare two sets of data guaranteed to be from the same source.

I can't recall what devstream it was when they first released the data, but somebody did cut out that specific part of the video where Rebecca was showing all of the data gathered originally for that week on PC.

There were two specific ways they presented the data so it gave different perspectives on Ivara's usage stats.

  • If you looked at the "global average usage stat" (as Rebb presents the data first), then Ivara was the least used stealth frame relative to her other stealth frame peers when looking at it from a global usage perspective (at least on PC during that week). It was Loki, followed by Octavia, followed by Ash, then literally right behind was Ivara (when just looking at the stealth frames only). Note that I mean "relative position" to each other in regards to where they were on the usage position for global. 
  • Then Rebb presented the data looking at only just the "MR 25 players" warframe usage stats and surprisingly the relative order (in terms of stealth frame usage) slightly changes. It was Loki, followed by Ivara, followed by Octavia, followed by Ash. I'm not sure why Rebb wanted to present the data looking only at the MR25 players (which at the time IIRC was the highest level when the data was first gathered).

Granted, this data is now woefully out of date and sadly, after all of Ivara's recent nerfs, I wouldn't be surprised if her usage stats ended up dropping significantly overall given how much the game has changed and how many nerfs she has received.

Here's the video where Rebb presents the data.

1:49 - Global usage warframe stats pie chart

4:09 - MR25 players usage stats only pie chart

 

Edited by BlindStalker

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On 2019-06-25 at 7:57 AM, Chewarette said:

Toggle is a huge benefit as there is no downtime at all. So yes, I'd rather we keep the movement restrictions, because if they were to disappear, that'd mean Prowl would be changed to a set duration. This would effectively transform Ivara into Female Loki.

Except with energizing dash and decent duration/efficiency Loki can literally stay invisible forever without needing energy orbs to drop Ivara cannot as toggle abilities prevent all energy regen effects except energy orbs and arcane energize procs. Prowl also costs additional energy for each unit of distance moved where Loki's is a fixed cost always not matter what. So they could literally not change prowl at all other than the speed boost and all it would do is cause Ivara to drain her energy pool faster...

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5 hours ago, TheKazz91 said:

Except with energizing dash and decent duration/efficiency Loki can literally stay invisible forever

That is not quite true as anyone who has done the Not Detected challenges should know.  Loki always has a period of time where he IS NOT invisible however small it may be.  That alone makes the statement of "Literally stay invisible forever" quite false.  

A more accurate phrase would be "stay invisible in spurts while constantly recasting forever."  😄 

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I think it's a fair trade off considering she can stay invisible indefinitely if built that way. If you use mods like Enemy Radar and Animal Instinct then you don't have to stay invisible and roll all the time. Only near enemies and lasers. In spy missions for instance I only turn invisible just before the Vault and when I'm done I bullet jump to the next Vault normally. 

On 2019-06-25 at 3:24 PM, GnarlsDarkley said:

Try this "tactic"

tenor.gif?itemid=11695636

Hilarious 😂😂😂

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Personally, I don't mind the actual slowdown. I do, however, HATE the mobility-option-restriction (i.e. not being allowed to bulletjump etc). If I could bulletjump without breaking Prowl, albeit still slowly, I'd potentially go from barely ever using Ivara, to become an Ivara main. Yes, i hate the restriction THAT much.

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