Chat suspension trigger phrases

[Blexander]

Shouldn't DE issue a list of phrases that will cause a chat ban/suspension, considering it's instant and with no warning? It just seems logical to me for them to let us know what we can't say. 

We know some specific triggers like "trap Nezha", its variation and the obvious ones, such as racials slurs, spam, etc. When I think about it, the only solution is non-bot moderation, but we all know how that turned out in the past, and the trend is still continuing to this day. (They may have released such a list, but from the ticket I issue a few days ago, they couldn't provide me with such info, so I doubt I missed it)

[MagPrime]

It's been mentioned that they don't want to give a list of the triggers because it gives people the ability to create workarounds easily. 

The best thing you can do, is simply keep controversial topics out of public chat.  That's where the Bot lives and strikes.  Want to talk about your sexual orientation? Alliance, Clan, Squad or Whisper.  Want to talk about weird sht?  Alliance, Clan, Squad or Whisper. 

The bot can't see what you do in private chats, which is really where those kinds of topics belong in the first place. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by MagPrime

[Walkampf]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Blexander:

Shouldn't DE issue a list of phrases that will cause a chat ban/suspension, considering it's instant and with no warning? It just seems logical to me for them to let us know what we can't say. 

I don't think a list like this is needed, If you try to argue things that are 'logical' then I'd argue, just use common sense and you won't run into any issue.

[Blexander]

2 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

I don't think a list like this is needed, If you try to argue things that are 'logical' then I'd argue, just use common sense and you won't run into any issue.

But do you do when an obvious joke gets flagged? Or mods' feelings get hurt? Not everybody knows what counts as offensive.

[MagPrime]

Just now, Blexander said:

But do you do when an obvious joke gets flagged? Or mods' feelings get hurt? Not everybody knows what counts as offensive.

Whats offensive is subjective, which is why you shouldn't tell "obvious jokes" in a public chat containing hundreds to thousands of players, from several countries.

Keep your jokes in private chat.

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, Blexander said:

But do you do when an obvious joke gets flagged? Or mods' feelings get hurt? Not everybody knows what counts as offensive.

Is the joke's topic offensive? Then don't write the joke into chat. That's what common sense is all about.
Or maybe always ask yourself this: Would I walk up to a policeman and say it to his face? If the answer is no, then don't post it in chat.

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Blexander:

But do you do when an obvious joke gets flagged? Or mods' feelings get hurt? Not everybody knows what counts as offensive.

This isn't about hurt feelings. Bans arn't issued by people but mostly via an automated script. this script doesn't feature 'feelings'.

If you 'joke' triggers said script, then it's quite likely that this wasn't a joke and the person who triggered the script is simply a douchebag.

[Blexander]

2 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

If you 'joke' triggers said script, then it's quite likely that this wasn't a joke and the person who triggered the script is simply a douchebag.

No, no, this is a different case. I'm not too sure, but Kickbot wasn't in chat at the time, but an actual mod, since I've seen a person saying we're annoying the mods, which can also be the case since when Kickbot erases a message, it's instant. And the messages I've seen disappear stayed for about 5-10 seconds prior to deletion. Then I called the mod out and I was gone in about that time frame (5-10 seconds from posting).

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, Blexander said:

Then I called the mod out and I was gone in about that time frame (5-10 seconds from posting).

I mean... it's not on you to do that.
If you want to talk about such decision, use the ticket system. Again: common sense. You are lacking it.

[Walkampf]

 

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Blexander:

since I've seen a person saying we're annoying the mods,

So it wasn't only one 'joke' but the whole thing went on for some time.

Great, that's even worse!

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

2 minutes ago, Blexander said:

No, no, this is a different case. I'm not too sure, but Kickbot wasn't in chat at the time, but an actual mod, since I've seen a person saying we're annoying the mods, which can also be the case since when Kickbot erases a message, it's instant. And the messages I've seen disappear stayed for about 5-10 seconds prior to deletion. Then I called the mod out and I was gone in about that time frame (5-10 seconds from posting).

If you would like to discuss your chat ban, you'll need to contact support.  No one here can help you.

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, Blexander said:

No, no, this is a different case. I'm not too sure, but Kickbot wasn't in chat at the time, but an actual mod, since I've seen a person saying we're annoying the mods, which can also be the case since when Kickbot erases a message, it's instant. And the messages I've seen disappear stayed for about 5-10 seconds prior to deletion. Then I called the mod out and I was gone in about that time frame (5-10 seconds from posting).

Ah, so you made a poor choice to engage in toxic behavior that resulted in a moderator taking action and then you made another poor choice to "call them out" over it.

Well, common sense is learned through life lessons, and this is one of those life lessons.  Next time, don't engage in toxic behavior in the public chat and don't challenge a mod when they moderate you for your actions.  

You'll have a week or two of no chat access, and you should contact support if it lasts longer than that.  

[Blexander]

1 minute ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

If you would like to discuss your chat ban, you'll need to contact support.  No one here can help you.

I did. They told me to wait it out, but they couldn't provide me with a list of trigger phrases. I'm overall pleased with the response time and the response. I'm just worried that a single slip up could get me suspended again, and since the reason I was suspended wasn't classified in the guidelines, I want to know exactly what to avoid saying.

 

4 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

 

So it wasn't only one 'joke' but the whole thing went on for some time.

Great, that's even worse!

Maybe 5 people were saying "F" and its variations, another couple were asking why it's considered spam if it's not actually filling up the chat. Anybody mentioning anything related, questions and actual spam, were getting deleted instantly. As far as I know this wasn't going on for too long. Region has a tendency to swap topics on a whim.

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Maybe 5 people were saying "F" and its variations, another couple were asking why it's considered spam if it's not actually filling up the chat. Anybody mentioning anything related, questions and actual spam, were getting deleted instantly. As far as I know this wasn't going on for too long. Region has a tendency to swap topics on a whim.

Rules aren't up for negotiation though.  "Press F to pay respects" is a meme that got out of hand at one point, with far more than just 5 people doing it, and it was put on the spam list.  It doesn't matter if it's 1 person, it's still designated as spam in public chat, which means the bot or moderator has to clean it up.  And it may have stopped at 5, this time, there's no guarantee that someone wouldn't have picked it up and started over. 

 

[WhiteMarker]

2 minutes ago, Blexander said:

and since the reason I was suspended wasn't classified in the guidelines

There is something about it in the forum guidelines...

Quote

6) COMPLAINTS – We will not tolerate inappropriate, aggressive, or hostile complaints posted on the Forums. If you have a complaint about a player, report the issue. If you have a complaint about how your behavior on the forums has been moderated, send the Moderator a private message. They will do what they can to sort out any issues. 

(Sending them a PM means being nice about it. If you were to insult them.... you get the point)

3 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Maybe 5 people were saying "F" and its variations, another couple were asking why it's considered spam if it's not actually filling up the chat. Anybody mentioning anything related, questions and actual spam, were getting deleted instantly. As far as I know this wasn't going on for too long. Region has a tendency to swap topics on a whim.

There is a huge chance that the "F"-thing will start spam. So surpressing it right from the start is a good idea. Discussing this matter, if the "F"-thing is spam or not ,in chat will make things worse. That's why you can PM mods. Discussing it in public chat will result in a lot of people crying.
It's totally understandable what happened there.

[Blexander]

1 minute ago, WhiteMarker said:

(Sending them a PM means being nice about it. If you were to insult them.... you get the point)

And how am I supposed to PM them after I get suspended?

 

2 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

There is a huge chance that the "F"-thing will start spam. So surpressing it right from the start is a good idea. Discussing this matter, if the "F"-thing is spam or not ,in chat will make things worse. That's why you can PM mods. Discussing it in public chat will result in a lot of people crying.
It's totally understandable what happened there.

I know that "F in chat" is a meme, but a mere question of why it's spam, by someone who doesn't know about or understand it, and then subsequently getting suspended, that doesn't sit well with me.

[MagPrime]

Just now, Blexander said:

I know that "F in chat" is a meme, but a mere question of why it's spam, by someone who doesn't know about or understand it, and then subsequently getting suspended, that doesn't sit well with me.

Did you get suspended for asking the question, or calling out the mod?

'Cause, if you got the suspension for asking the question, that is wrong, but how would you be able to call out the mod if that happened?

1 minute ago, Blexander said:

And how am I supposed to PM them after I get suspended?

One of those life lessons.  Don't call out the mod, just send them a PM and 99% chance you wont get suspended to begin with. 

[Blexander]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

Did you get suspended for asking the question, or calling out the mod?

I called a mod out. I don't participate in chat spam, I know the rules. But the people asking the question were getting deleted as well. I don't know if they got suspended or if they just had their message deleted, I got angry because I thought they got suspended for a simple question. I'm not arguing that I shouldn't have been suspended, I frankly don't care. I said what I said, I received the consequence, I got my suspension lifted, and am now worried that anything I say against moderation will be flagged as whatever and I'll get another suspension.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

26 minutes ago, Blexander said:

I'm just worried that a single slip up could get me suspended again, and since the reason I was suspended wasn't classified in the guidelines, I want to know exactly what to avoid saying.

Here are some references for you to use:

https://www.warframe.com/terms?q=terms

https://www.warframe.com/eula

https://forums.warframe.com/guidelines/

https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200039859-Code-of-Conduct

https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200287100

 

[WhiteMarker]

17 minutes ago, Blexander said:

And how am I supposed to PM them after I get suspended?

Be smart before getting yourself banned.

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, Blexander said:

I called a mod out. I don't participate in chat spam, I know the rules. But the people asking the question were getting deleted as well. I don't know if they got suspended or if they just had their message deleted, I got angry because I thought they got suspended for a simple question. I'm not arguing that I shouldn't have been suspended, I frankly don't care. I said what I said, I received the consequence, I got my suspension lifted, and am now worried that anything I say against moderation will be flagged as whatever and I'll get another suspension.

The mod probably wont even remember you after they wake up the next day, let alone add you to some kind of watch list.  I've been a mod and what you're describing isn't worth anyone's energy to remember or act on. 

As has been suggested here, don't do stupid things and you'll be fine. 

[CxLL]

2 hours ago, Blexander said:

Shouldn't DE issue a list of phrases that will cause a chat ban/suspension

No.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, MagPrime said:

It's been mentioned that they don't want to give a list of the triggers because it gives people the ability to create workarounds easily. 

@MagPrime  is absolutely right. 

Having run something similar in function in an IRC for years, I can tell everyone that this is the exact reason why I never released my full list of trigger phrases to anyone. I had a general list that people could contact me with suggestions, but I was the only person who knew all of the variations that I added and updated to keep people from bypassing it. And even so it was a constant cat and mouse game to keep up with the people who kept trying to circumvent it. 

 

The problem arises that there appear to be phrases that have obscure meanings (well obscure for those of us who are not from North America), while also having other meanings that are not offensive. What I've seen suggests that the bot is not only unable to determine context, but it also runs on a list of triggers that were not created to take context into consideration. 

An example of this would be to include a 3 letter term that is mainly a North American slur for people of Asian descent that appears in both "Japan" and "Japanese", without a way for the bot to exclude those from triggering an action. 

I'm generally strongly in favour of chat moderation, and support the decision to not release the actual list of phrases, but the chat bot trigger list needs a major overhaul. Because it's currently doing a piss poor job of stopping bigotry, and from what I've seen, is used extensively by trolls to trick newbs into bans. 

[o0Despair0o]

Or you could just... like... not be a total you-know-what and keep quiet when you got nothing to say.

Been doing that for years, works like a charm.

[SilverBones]

Moderation mostly requires context. For some statements, context is irrelevant and that is where the bot comes in. As stated by several people in this thread, if you wish to avoid getting flushed, kicked or banned, maintain your discourse in a civil manner. What you may find a joke might be considered inappropriate as outlined in our Code of Conduct.

Saying that, if you have an issue with the way you are moderated, then I suggest you refer to your support ticket (as you said you have opened one).