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[DE]Bear

Third-Party Software and You - A PSA

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Greetings, Tenno.

We have seen a few requests lately, specifically requesting that we provide a list of software that we do and do not allow to run in conjunction with Warframe. While it is understood that some software is good and others are inherently bad or designed to assist cheating, there are some cases where software falls in gray areas.

The reason for this post is to have an updated reference about our policy on external, third-party software, and the potential pitfalls of using such software in conjunction with Warframe.

The simple, golden rule is this;

If you use external software in conjunction with Warframe, then you do so at your own risk.

While we could technically issue blanket bans on everything that alters the game files, the fact of the matter is that there's some software that can be useful and helpful for members of our community. This is where context is very important. The difficulty here is that it's incredibly hard for players to prove that they are not using a program nefariously, and while it is certainly possible that there are false positives (which a ticket to support can resolve), the ban will remain in place until your ticket can be processed.

This leads into why a list is not provided. If you have a piece of Macro software that is normally tolerated, but is then discovered to be the source of a future exploit, that software may get added to a ban list, and you could potentially be caught up in the automatic drag net. As stated above, there is no easy way to prove that the software used is benign.

Bans for altering game files, cheating and / or exploiting Warframe are hefty and final. Our stance on using such software is firm, and appealing against that ban is very difficult if we have reason to believe that you have been using said software for cheating, exploiting, or AFK farming.

The only way you can reliably, 100% avoid a ban for using external software is to simply not use it. 

Again, if you take anything away from this post, it should be this;

If you use external software in conjunction with Warframe, then you do so at your own risk.
 

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Posted (edited)

Thank you! While this thread doesn't exactly state anything new, it does explain the difference in difficulty of incidents involving say AHK (Autohotkey) or Cheat Engine.

Additionally, is there a way we can get clarification on Macros? There are old posts from 2013/2014 on this subject but this was before we had Operators, Maiming Strike, and other new features added to Warframe. There are many useful macros that are in a grey area and using at your own risk is a fine stance, but what is and isn't acceptable isn't exactly clear. Common sense says to avoid all Macros to be safe, but any Macro could be skewed as a shortcut no matter the action it performs and whether said shortcut is acceptable is not at a player's discretion.

Edited by Voltage
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4 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

If you use external software in conjunction with Warframe, then you do so at your own risk.

If you use external software in conjunction with Warframe, then you do so at your own risk.

By me if its not a Recording Program, Game Overlay like NVidia`s / Discords or plugin like Razer`s Chroma for the game interacting with the mouse/keyboard colors, it should be banned, including Macros as people still exploit them for shameful Spin2Win mechanics.

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Posted (edited)
vor 10 Minuten schrieb [DE]Bear:

If you use external software in conjunction with Warframe, then you do so at your own risk.

this needs to be in letters at the size of 30. ive seen quite some people ask about macroing and spin2win on melee since its become a thing and i always shake my head how people can ruin their own fun by doing that, though this is opinion but it also is still a risc in any game, unless the game itself has such a feature included, of which i only remember 2-3 examples maximum.

personally i would even punish macroing since its enhancing player "ability" beyond whats really achievable by normal means but i guess thats my opinion only.

afterwards people still complain and whilst a support ticket might resolve it, it is still a risc people should really remember more than they seem to do.

 

thanks for the clarification. very helpful information for everyone, even if u dont post a detailed list of programs.

 

Edited by Xydeth
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1 minute ago, Modeaus said:

What about 3rd party hardware?

FluidSillyIslandcanary-small.gif

#EnjoyBan

IN SERIOUSNESS THOUGH, third party hardware (as long as it has no software that alters games files) should be fine, as hardware is really designed to be interchangeable and different on the PC. I would love to see someone play Warframe with an old-school console Light Gun though.

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il y a 3 minutes, Modeaus a dit :

What about 3rd party hardware?

FluidSillyIslandcanary-small.gif

The remind me the moment I build a motorized lego machine to AFK farm in T4 defense with Mesa, it were super efficient XD

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vor 1 Minute schrieb lukinu_u:

The remind me the moment I build a motorized lego machine to AFK farm in T4 defense with Mesa, it were super efficient XD

sssssh, we dont wanna miss ur skins 😛

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Without wanting to cause a fuss, this post seems to be... possibly the least helpful thing that could have been posted on the matter.

Essentially it reads to me as "maybe, but don't do it, but maybe you'd be okay, but don't do it". I can't really see this resolving people's questions, if anything an official "maybe" seems like it'll have the opposite effect and create more questions on the subject, even with the inclusion of various forms of "but don't do it".

I don't and have no intention of using any such program, just voicing a concern.

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I have a question about someone destroying my friends alliance and taking over 50 clans with him I have report it to a support ticket 3 mouths ago to Dedavid and nothing happened since then? 

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vor 1 Minute schrieb DeMonkey:

Without wanting to cause a fuss, this post seems to be... possibly the least helpful thing that could have been posted on the matter.

Essentially it reads to me as "maybe, but don't do it, but maybe you'd be okay, but don't do it". I can't really see this resolving people's questions, if anything an official "maybe" seems like it'll have the opposite effect and create more questions on the subject, even with the inclusion of various forms of "but don't do it".

I don't and have no intention of using any such program, just voicing a concern.

it basically means what was said: use at own risc and dont be surprised when a program was okay once but then u might run into trouble at some point -> "we told ya !"

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

By me if its not a Recording Program, Game Overlay like NVidia`s / Discords or plugin like Razer`s Chroma for the game interacting with the mouse/keyboard colors, it should be banned, including Macros as people still exploit them for shameful Spin2Win mechanics.

I disagree. As per the Autohotkey announcement made years ago by [DE]Adam:

Quote

We understand that while these hotkeys can be used for exploitative purposes they also serve a very important function in assisting players with potential disabilities -- something that we’re very mindful of.

Source Link

This is a grey area and banning everyone might help your Maiming Strike issue, but it may affect many players who use Macros for other things. It would be nice if DE made a new announcement about Macros that is up to date with how the game is these days.

Edited by Voltage
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100% the most unhelpful helpful post in recent forums.

It would be more helpful to take in questions regarding this topic from the community before even posting this in the first place. This fails to  answer any questions we had previously, in fact, it makes things more confusing. No guidelines were erected, no examples given, not even new information on the topic was released. At this point, you might as well join us over on this end of the conversation and admit that no one knows how to answer these questions, neither the playerbase, not the devs.

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I use MSI Afterburner / RTSS to control my framepacing issues when Nvidia fast sync is active. That is an external software, and it affects WF by limiting FPS and the pacing between them without the huge performance penalty of regular VSYNC.

Is that at risk as well?

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Just now, Xydeth said:

it basically means what was said: use at own risc and dont be surprised when a program was okay once but then u might run into trouble at some point -> "we told ya !"

Not sure where I displayed a lack of understanding of the original post.

My point doesn't change in the slightest, but thank you all the same.

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11 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I disagree. As per the Autohotkey announcement made years ago by [DE]Adam:

Source Link

This is a grey area and banning everyone might help your Maiming Strike issue, but it may affect many players who use Macros for other things. It would be nice if DE made a new announcement about Macros that is up to date with how the game is these days.

You should treat this post as one that supersedes previous statements made on the matter. This statement goes for all forms of third-party software, including macro programs. Again, the reason we do not issue blanket bans is because we do recognize the use these programs have for some members of the community. Sadly those same programs can be used for AFK farming and the like, so context is important here and is dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

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1 minute ago, [DE]Bear said:

You should treat this post as one that supersedes previous statements made on the matter. This statement goes for all forms of third-party software, including macro programs. Again, the reason we do not issue blanket bans is because we do recognize the use these programs have for some members of the community. Sadly those same programs can be used for AFK farming and the like, so context is important here and is dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

Thank you for clarity. I guess this backtracks to my edited comment:

31 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Additionally, is there a way we can get clarification on Macros? There are old posts from 2013/2014 on this subject but this was before we had Operators, Maiming Strike, and other new features added to Warframe. There are many useful macros that are in a grey area and using at your own risk is a fine stance, but what is and isn't acceptable isn't exactly clear. Common sense says to avoid all Macros to be safe, but any Macro could be skewed as a shortcut no matter the action it performs and whether said shortcut is acceptable is not at a player's discretion.

Haha.

Thank you again.

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vor 13 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

Not sure where I displayed a lack of understanding of the original post.

My point doesn't change in the slightest, but thank you all the same.

never tried to disagree with u or anything, quite the opposite actually.

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I agree with Monkey here. I can understand not providing a full list because it could be ridicolous, but I do think having a few examples would help.

I don't think anyone on their right mind would think CheatEngine for instance would be okay to run because obvious reasons, but you can always see some people asking about ReShade for instance, even though it's one of those that it's fair game.

Having said this all I'm hoping now is that the Melee rework kills the Spin2win. Destroy that for the love of God XD

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Posted (edited)

Should I take from this that using something such as autohotkey for a quick keybind is fine? I run two, both are for ease of use and hand health.

1. Slide macro (tapping Q will basically tap Ctrl and E once).

2. Semiautomatic, fast secondaries: Holding my middle mouse button will simulate clicking multiple times. This is the one that concerns me, I'm certain it's no automation and for sure it changes no files, but I still want to ask since there doesn't seem to be a clear stance regarding macros.

27 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

including Macros as people still exploit them for shameful Spin2Win mechanics.

Why? What will that achieve? Even if slide attacks were gone, someone would still complain at other things such as Ignis, any aoe dps frame, etc.

Calling something shameful because it's efficient is shameful.

Edited by Pandigueiro
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2 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

never tried to disagree with u or anything, quite the opposite actually.

Fair enough, didn't quite get that. My apologies.

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1 minute ago, Pandigueiro said:

Why? What will that achieve? Even if slide attacks were gone, someone would still complain at other things such as Ignis, any aoe dps frame, etc.

Calling something shameful because it's efficient is shameful.

I call it shamefull because its abusive and used in a way that was not intended to. If you follow the DevStreams you would know that the Devs regret having added Maiming Strike into the game because it made a playstyle they dont like.

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2 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

 don't think anyone on their right mind would think CheatEngine for instance would be okay to run because obvious reasons

Except it's not so obvious. CheatEngine has legitimate use cases (single player games, there are also games where it is used to add 21:9 support, etc), but if you forget to close it and start Warframe, you'll get banned even if you did not try to use it on Warframe. The launcher at least used to warn you and prevent you from launching Warframe, but it no longer does so, supposedly.

 

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