Zepthyr Tailwind Feedback

[skbenga]

I have been spending a bit of time with the bird frame and wanted to share my feedback in case DE or any one is interested.

TLDR: allow bullet slide, wall latch and jump to interrupt the casting animation of Tail wind.

When using tail wind in a non open world tile set, i find it has some clunky aspects that can be easily fixed by allowing other inputs to override the the animation.

Issue 1: when you want to use tail wind to cover ground fast, you cast it in a forward direction and if your feet touch the ground, you stop dead. I find this can be counter productive when trying to get somewhere fast with the "get somewhere fast ability".
Fix 1: If CROUCH is held during the animation but before you land, Zephyr starts the bullet slide animation. hitting the ground she slides keeping some form of momentum. It could be used the same way as the bullet running technique but instead of jump you would use tailwind. you get the extra speed but at the cost of energy.

Issue 2: If you want to tail wind up to a high point on a wall in order to wall latch, you have to wait for your tailwind animation to complete before you can initiate the latch. this lag feels forced and unnatural and i find myself waiting for the animation to end so that I can start shooting from my vantage point.
Fix 2: Allow wall latch to cancel tailwind animation and immediately wall latch. In games you can then fluidly boost to a wall, latch, shoot, boost to another wall, and repeat. This could create a fun unique style of play.

Finally although this is not a fix for any issue it would create interesting game play. So Following the same idea, pressing Jump could also cancel the animation with a double jump. This will effectively slow you right down but you floating in the air due to zephyrs passive ability. you could quickly follow this up with aim glide to do some aerial damage.
(ultimately i would like to see jump give her a custom "slam to a halt" animation that blows a wave of air that continues for the remaining duration rag dolling enemies in its path.)

That's it. These are only my thoughts and are in no way meant to be taken seriously.
 

[Birdframe_Prime]

Heard you talking about Zephyr?

Heh, a long, long, loooong time ago (back in early 2017 actually) I suggested that the best improvement for Zephyr's Tailwind, even before it got this ridiculous Momentum function, was simply to remove the animation entirely.

You don't need to make it something you can interrupt, you just remove the animation and you introduce far more options. For example, Zephyr has increased mobility in the air, allowing her to steer around corners, let us use that to adjust our aim by being able to steer around obstacles instead of getting clipped into a corner by the animation.

The Wall Latch and Run animations that are able to absorb the Momentum currently would be usable instantly if we mis-cast it. We would be able to slide out of it, reload, recast Turbulence or even attempt a bombing run with Airburst.

I would even sacrifice the damage area on the ability for that kind of freedom (co-incidentally getting DE to rescind that completely ridiculous augment that is rendered unusable by the way the ability itself functions... why they couldn't have just kept Dive Bomb Vortex I have no clue...)

But...

Here's another thought to mull over, if you want it;

Make Hover cast something we can do while moving, while in the air. So that... wait for it... we can use it as a brake.

Hover is anti-mobility right now. Hover is slow, clunky, only possible to cast when Zephyr is doing something that Zephyr doesn't do (stand still in an animation on the ground), and the payout for casting it is... at best a limited time in the air that's not even based on Duration, but on the charge time, with no cue as to when it's going to end or ability to mod it, and we can... shoot from it? Cast her abilities? That's... about it... Nothing more.

But. If it was a half-second charge rather than 3 seconds, had a Duration we could mod for, and we could cast it while moving and in the air? That's positive mobility, because speed is one half, being able to stop is the other.

You noticed it with the wall-latch and the slide, if you want to continue the movement you would have the options, but if you want to stop... there's not a lot of choice right now except to Dive Bomb down and put yourself on the ground again.

Half-a-second hold on the ability at any point. On the ground, you bounce up as currently, and you can put yourself at any height along that by aim-gliding exactly as currently, but if you do it in the air you just lock into place. An air-brake.

It's a thought, right?

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

I agree with the general idea of Tailwind being more controllable. Ideally I think Tailwind shouldn't be affected by duration mods at all, since it's quite annoying to have your movement change based on the build you use, and the distance be controllable purely with additional inputs. Jump would give you extra momentum (similar to how it is now). Crouch will cancel it and stop all your momentum (as it used to be before rework). Holding Aim Glide mid animation or as you cast it extends the duration of Tailwind up to 2x or so and then transition you into Aim glide (this would be an equivalent of current 200% duration or so)

Also I think Tailwind should be cancelable with another Tailwind cast at any moment, so you could change direction, make sharp turns, or just cast a dive bomb at any time you want, without waiting for previous animation to end.

Edited June 27, 2019 by (PS4)Gaelic-_-Flame

[yles9056]

Wukong's Cloud Walker has better maneuverability than Tailwind and can be canceled.

I wouldn't mind if DE just copy Cloud Walker and paste it to Zephyr's Tailwind with some modifications. Maybe add some momentum when the ability ends and utilize sprint button for better speed control.

[skbenga]

I am afraid that if we asked for a rework of the ability such as some of the suggestion you guys have made, we may not get any changes at all (regarding changing the charge mechanic and duration stats effecting it and all that).

My hope is that if the tweaks we can suggest are small/easy enough to implement, DE might go ahead and make the changes in a simple hotfix. Then we can see the changes happen (if they did) before the next Saryn rework. 

I do agree that the hold to float mechanic is pointless. in open word situations you can just tailwind high into the air, look down and snipe enemies as you float like a feather back down to the ground. you will get more height and more hang time than what the hold mechanic could ever give you. While in the non open world maps, you bash your head on the roof then shoot at enemies who are eye level with your junk, so its not like they are going to miss when shooting back... i guess i just don't get it's point. far better i think would be to allow jump to jump out of the animation and if you recast tailwind while in a tailwind, you should do a hard brake. With that being said, if we were asking for a change like this, then i don't think DE will oblige anytime soon. 

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Leave Zephyr alone. She needs no changes at all.

Everything she does it absolutely perfect and exactly how DE intended her to be played.

If you have any complaint about her kit, it's because you don't know how to use her.

My tornados can kill level 160 in the simulacrum with the augment, she's fine as is.

DE please stop catering to these whine requests, they don't know how to play her.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Leave Zephyr alone. She needs no changes at all.

You know, unless you give just a little more of a hint about the satire, people are definitely not going to get the joke, old friend ^^

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

9 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

You know, unless you give just a little more of a hint about the satire, people are definitely not going to get the joke, old friend ^^

I know. I was honestly looking forward to the responses.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 minute ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I know. I was honestly looking forward to the responses.

Master de-bait-er...

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

18 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Master de-bait-er...

Btw, I saw you gifted Roomba to Shy. You're sick and twisted lol. Hope you put a mag in there

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Btw, I saw you gifted Roomba to Shy. You're sick and twisted lol. Hope you put a mag in there

She asked to get to 1000, I was going to give 50, but I have more stupid shenanigans to get up to with the rest of my plat, so I had to settle for 20.

[skbenga]

17 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Leave Zephyr alone. She needs no changes at all.

Everything she does it absolutely perfect and exactly how DE intended her to be played.

If you have any complaint about her kit, it's because you don't know how to use her.

My tornados can kill level 160 in the simulacrum with the augment, she's fine as is.

DE please stop catering to these whine requests, they don't know how to play her.

It's a little harsh to call this a whine don't you think?

All I have  done is give my feedback on a warframe i have played on a forum dedicated to collecting feedback on warframes. am i in the wrong place for this?

Edited June 28, 2019 by skbenga

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, skbenga said:

It's a little harsh to call this a whine don't you think?

You're just being mean to them now, @(PS4)RenovaKunumaru But I can see you're having fun. Don't get the mods involved now kids.