Parcesis, and also umbral mods.

[Maka.Bones]

It's been a really fun weapon to use so far, along with Gram Prime, and Tatsu. They're some of my new favorite melee weps.

Paracesis is especially my fav, because you guys made it look beautiful & savage AF. But I honestly wish we had been able to pry it clean from Ballas' hands, via some sort of boss fight. 

anyway, thanks for the awesome sword!

 

Now about umbra mods,

I'd love to use them along with paracesis, since they seem like they'd have some awesome synergy... But there's absolutely no freaking way that i'll trade my Primed Pressure Point (+165% Melee Damage) for Sacrificial Pressure (136%, with sacrificial steel set bonus). Shouldn't sacrificial pressure be giving a better damage bonus--or at least the same?

Edit For anyone out there saying how good the crit from sacrificial steel is: I know it's a decent buff, but primed pressure point, maiming strike, and blood rush, already gets me to red crits at 1.5x combo multiplier. Meaning that non-sacrificial alternatives not only offer more damage, but also offer a faster crit progression.

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

It does, the bonus damage to sentients is multiplicative, making them the best mods to kill sentients

[Maka.Bones]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Apoleon_amarr said:

It does, the bonus damage to sentients is multiplicative, making them the best mods to kill sentients

Anytime I use melee weps against sentients, they just laugh it off.... I'm not really gonna bother killing sentients with these tbh, and I don't want to constantly be switching mods. I just want THE CRIT

For the amount of endo these mods require, I'd like them to be effective for more than just "specialized for killing sentients"

Edited June 27, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[ZeroBladeTV]

11 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Anytime I use melee weps against sentients, they just laugh it off....

You should mod Paracesys better. Mine kills lvl 100-200 enemies in 3-4 hits. Aaand I haven't even modded it optimally, just threw a few good mods on it.

Edited June 28, 2019 by ZeroBladeTV

[(PSN)smb-twisted]

12 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Anytime I use melee weps against sentients, they just laugh it off.... I'm not really gonna bother killing sentients with these tbh, and I don't want to constantly be switching mods. I just want THE CRIT

For the amount of endo these mods require, I'd like them to be effective for more than just "specialized for killing sentients"

And you do get the crit. that's the whole point of them.

 

if you want umbral pressure to give more damage boost than prime pressure point AND you want umbral steel to give more cc than true steel then that's just being greedy. Although i can see why you might want that, given the umbral 'frame mods give higher boosts than vitality/intesify/armour when stacked.

 

Personally i prefer it how it is

[Maka.Bones]

4 hours ago, (PS4)smb-twisted said:

And you do get the crit. that's the whole point of them.

 

if you want umbral pressure to give more damage boost than prime pressure point AND you want umbral steel to give more cc than true steel then that's just being greedy. Although i can see why you might want that, given the umbral 'frame mods give higher boosts than vitality/intesify/armour when stacked.

 

Personally i prefer it how it is

It's not greedy at all. That was exactly what they did with Umbral intensify, umbral vitality, umbral fiber, and sacrificial steel--consistently giving them a better bonus, even before the set bonus.

Yet they skip out on umbral pressure? lol it seems like they're the ones holding out on us, not me being greedy for expecting them to be consistent.

no ty i'll pass on using these then; I hate using something that feels incomplete. I'll just get crit with maiming strike, and spin-to-win my way to victory.

Edit:  I'm sure red crits with primed pressure, give a better damage boost than a multiplicative extra 66% damage to sentients (with sacrificial pressure) without the red crits... and maybe even with the red crits, considering the work you put into building the counter. Which is the point of my original post: They don't even seem better at killing sentients. Then even when we are having to fight sentient/amalgam creatures, we also have to fight other factions as well. We will also fight many non-sentient enemies, against which our overall damage will be significantly reduced. 

Instead of a bonus 66% multiplicative damage bonus to sentients, it would be more effective to give them a higher base damage bonus with a lower extra damage to sentients. 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(XBOX)Q 2 K O]

The Paracesis is actually better with the Sacrificial mods because the combination of the two maxed pushes you to 333%CC at a 2.5x combo with Blood Rush. Without Sacrificial Steel at a 2.5x combo you have a 158%CC the difference is insane. Without Sacrificial Steel on Paracesis you get much lower damage output overall. Not to mention that Primed Pressure Point is giving you, iirc 35% increase in base damage over Sac Pressure. Absolutely not worth it.

Edited June 28, 2019 by (XB1)Q 2 K O

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Q 2 K O said:

The Paracesis is actually better with the Sacrificial mods because the combination of the two maxed pushes you to 333%CC at a 2.5x combo with Blood Rush. Without Sacrificial Steel at a 2.5x combo you have a 158%CC the difference is insane. Without Sacrificial Steel on Paracesis you get much lower damage output overall. Not to mention that Primed Pressure Point is giving you, iirc 35% increase in base damage over Sac Pressure. Absolutely not worth it.

1) primed pressure point actually gives a 55% base increase, over sac pressure.  (without the set modifiers)

2) Maiming strike + blood rush, already puts me above 300% CC at 1.5x combo. 

So what exactly is "absolutely not worth it" about it? How exactly are the sacrificial mods better ?

If sacrificial steel gave an additive flat  CHC% bonus, then i'd agree with you. But no crit mod will be able to beat maiming strike, which is why I wanted more damage to compensate for the lack of the crit. I use meme strike, so i can get crit.. but it would be nice to use something other than "helicopter strike" to reach red crits quickly, which is why I wanted to use sacrificial mods. But they're just flat out not better at the moment lol.

It's disappointing that with all the progress, resources, and effort they require to even unlock--not to mention the awesome lore that ties in with them--they're not actually better than other things we can get earlier in the game. They're also not as useful for most of the content in the game. And they're only slightly better than their non-prime or non-rare counterparts.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(XBOX)Q 2 K O]

On 2019-06-28 at 1:10 PM, Maka.Bones said:

1) primed pressure point actually gives a 55% base increase, over sac pressure.  (without the set modifiers)

2) Maiming strike + blood rush, already puts me above 300% CC at 1.5x combo. 

So what exactly is "absolutely not worth it" about it? How exactly are the sacrificial mods better ?

If sacrificial steel gave an additive flat  CHC% bonus, then i'd agree with you. But no crit mod will be able to beat maiming strike, which is why I wanted more damage to compensate for the lack of the crit. I use meme strike, so i can get crit.. but it would be nice to use something other than "helicopter strike" to reach red crits quickly, which is why I wanted to use sacrificial mods. But they're just flat out not better at the moment lol.

It's disappointing that with all the progress, resources, and effort they require to even unlock--not to mention the awesome lore that ties in with them--they're not actually better than other things we can get earlier in the game. They're also not as useful for most of the content in the game. And they're only slightly better than their non-prime or non-rare counterparts.

If you want a spin to win build why do it half-***ed and use a heavy blade? Use a whip. I don’t use maiming on anything other than whips, but to each his own.

Yeah you have a 300CC% because it’s maiming. I’d rather be able to have 300%CC, double damage Broken Bull combo, and the flexibility of being able to do something other than slide constantly. 

[Maka.Bones]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Q 2 K O said:

If you want a spin to win build why do it half-***ed and use a heavy blade? Use a whip. I don’t use maiming on anything other than whips, but to each his own.

Yeah you have a 300CC% because it’s maiming. I’d rather be able to have 300%CC, double damage Broken Bull combo, and the flexibility of being able to do something other than slide constantly. 

Because this sword looks cooler, and feels more satisfying to use, and sounds better... Paracesis simply looks & sounds badass. 

And yeah i'd rather not slide constantly, which is why i wanted stronger sacrificial mods. But they're not that strong for the effort/cost required to get and max them. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(XBOX)Q 2 K O]

21 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Because this sword looks cooler, and feels more satisfying to use, and sounds better... Paracesis simply looks & sounds badass. 

And yeah i'd rather not slide constantly, which is why i wanted stronger sacrificial mods. But they're not that strong for the effort/cost required to get and max them. 

Yes, yes it does.

It’s not hard to get them at all. I used to dread maxing “Primed” tier mods but ever since Arbitration it’s honestly not a problem anymore, but still somewhat of grind. Nowhere near the grind it used to be though.

[(XBOX)An Angry Mod]

On 2019-06-28 at 1:10 PM, Maka.Bones said:

2) Maiming strike + blood rush, already puts me above 300% CC at 1.5x combo.

Please don't tell me you're using maim on para.

[Midas]

On 2019-06-27 at 6:36 PM, Maka.Bones said:

It's been a really fun weapon to use so far, along with Gram Prime, and Tatsu. They're some of my new favorite melee weps.

Paracesis is especially my fav, because you guys made it look beautiful & savage AF. But I honestly wish we had been able to pry it clean from Ballas' hands, via some sort of boss fight. 

anyway, thanks for the awesome sword!

 

Now about umbra mods,

I'd love to use them along with paracesis, since they seem like they'd have some awesome synergy... But there's absolutely no freaking way that i'll trade my Primed Pressure Point (+165% Melee Damage) for Sacrificial Pressure (136%, with sacrificial steel set bonus). Shouldn't sacrificial pressure be giving a better damage bonus--or at least the same?

Edit For anyone out there saying how good the crit from sacrificial steel is: I know it's a decent buff, but primed pressure point, maiming strike, and blood rush, already gets me to red crits at 1.5x combo multiplier. Meaning that non-sacrificial alternatives not only offer more damage, but also offer a faster crit progression.

 

thats a total damage multiplier on the umbral mods they are broken on paracesis, primed pressure point is worse against sentients as it is only a base damage multiplier... because paracesis after 5 forma simulates void effect and strips damage reduction from sentients... you'll wipe em ez.

Paracesis already has a 60% sentient multi

148.3% with both umbrals...

Thats a lot more damage than primed pressure point can dream of lol! Literally doubles your damage and if it was about 50% more it would triple it!

Edited July 2, 2019 by Midas

[Midas]

For example the photo below contains a post of me hitting the wolf with a crit paracesis...

This is with umbral mods on, unfortunately the wolf is no sentient so I did not get the multiplier...

However as you can see the hits are a total of 225,600 damage a hit...

225600 * 148.3% = 334,565 + 225600 = a total hit of 560,165 damage... 

Faction damage plays a significant role in big boy damage...

Not to mention I hit about 3 hits a second...

Let it sink in that it is only at a 2x combo multi as well...

hit well above 200k without that rhino buff as well.

If you specifically don't like the umbral setup run gram + wisp for attack speed... Then slap on a smite mod + a combo duration mod.

 

https://imgur.com/CtxLVtw

Edited July 2, 2019 by Midas

[birdobash]

You gotta remember that you're comparing a sacrificial mod aka umbral mod to a primed mod, all the other umbral and sacrificial mods are outright better than their normal counterparts, including sacrificial pressure being better than the normal pressure point. So it is in fact NOT DE holding out on us, its just that a primed variant of a mod that is part of the sacrificial set exists, and that primed mod has a slightly bigger value compared to the sacrificial one.

I don't really think it should be changed, sure it doesn't have as high as a value as the primed version, but I don't think its necessarily even supposed to. Plus, the umbral and sacrificial mods are given for free from playing the game, just like excalibur Umbra is given for free, making sacrificial pressure better than primed pressure point would make investing ducats and time into baro'kiteer unworthy of your time for that specific mod.

On another note, sacrificial mods are super powerful against sentients, IRRC at max rank and with two on a weapon you get 60% damage to sentients, which is WAYY more than the extra 55% base damage from a primed pressure point, its strong enough that, while hard to set up, the paracesis is a completely viable Eidolon limb breaker and final stage killer (you gotta learn how to get yourself in melee range of the joints though to do broken bull). The only problem with the sacrificial and umbral mods currently is that there aren't any sentients to fight! This problem should be fixed however once we get the next mainline quest involving the new War or whatchamacallit, until then, just gear up for the sentient army.

Edited July 2, 2019 by birdobash

[Maka.Bones]

5 hours ago, Midas said:

thats a total damage multiplier on the umbral mods they are broken on paracesis, primed pressure point is worse against sentients as it is only a base damage multiplier... because paracesis after 5 forma simulates void effect and strips damage reduction from sentients... you'll wipe em ez.

Paracesis already has a 60% sentient multi

148.3% with both umbrals...

Thats a lot more damage than primed pressure point can dream of lol! Literally doubles your damage and if it was about 50% more it would triple it!

Yeah but we're rarely fighting sentients... even with the new game mode.

I'm also not spending 60k endo, on mods that i'll only use for one game mode/one faction/ one rare type of enemy... So I honestly couldn't care less that they're overpowered at killing sentients. We don't fight eidolons with melee, and we rarely fight any sentients. I'd rather have something that's more universally useful (like the warframe umbral mods)

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, birdobash said:

~~snip~~.

@birdobash Please see my reply to the other gentleman, above. ^^^

~~~~~~~~~~

@anyone else

I don't care how strong it is against sentients; it's incredibly impractical and they're a rare enemy type. So they currently don't bring anything useful/significant when fighting enemies throughout 95% of the game. 

Primed mods can be acquired much easier, and much quicker in the game. They also cost about as much endo to upgrade, and they're universally better. So yeah, i'd rather use the primed mods.

Nothing you guys have said sounds like a solid/logical reason. It just sounds like you're making excuses to justify why you want to defend sacrificial mods. Yes the idea behind them is awesome, but outside of emotional attachment, they clearly are suboptimal for the stage of the game they're introduced in (and the amount of endo required to max them)

No, umbral pressure shouldn't be worse than primed mods. Not if they're locked behind immense story progression, it's going to cost as much endo as the primed counterpart to upgrade, AND THEY'RE ONLY "OP" AGAINST A *RARE *TYPE OF ENEMY--even in maps where sentients do appear, they're still rather rare and sparse.

They're clearly not OP with paracesis, when the enemy they're OP against is barely existent. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Xaero]

You don't need to use Sacrificial mods right now. You may find a use for them once we get access to Tau system which is swarming with Sentients.

[Midas]

3 hours ago, Ksaero said:

You don't need to use Sacrificial mods right now. You may find a use for them once we get access to Tau system which is swarming with Sentients.

This and my math was logical... Your just trying to formulate an argument as to buff an sacrificial mod that does not need a buff. All will make sense when new war drops probs.

It seems you simply are arguing for pride at this moment and not wanting to be "wrong".

I even gave you a response to use gram then if you want a weapon that benefits more from primed pressure point otherwise run primed pressure point on paracesis with 1 sacrificial crit chance mod...

Edited July 2, 2019 by Midas

[birdobash]

12 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

@birdobash Please see my reply to the other gentleman, above. ^^^

~~~~~~~~~~

@anyone else

I don't care how strong it is against sentients; it's incredibly impractical and they're a rare enemy type. So they currently don't bring anything useful/significant when fighting enemies throughout 95% of the game. 

Primed mods can be acquired much easier, and much quicker in the game. They also cost about as much endo to upgrade, and they're universally better. So yeah, i'd rather use the primed mods.

Nothing you guys have said sounds like a solid/logical reason. It just sounds like you're making excuses to justify why you want to defend sacrificial mods. Yes the idea behind them is awesome, but outside of emotional attachment, they clearly are suboptimal for the stage of the game they're introduced in (and the amount of endo required to max them)

No, umbral pressure shouldn't be worse than primed mods. Not if they're locked behind immense story progression, it's going to cost as much endo as the primed counterpart to upgrade, AND THEY'RE ONLY "OP" AGAINST A *RARE *TYPE OF ENEMY--even in maps where sentients do appear, they're still rather rare and sparse.

They're clearly not OP with paracesis, when the enemy they're OP against is barely existent. 

As I said, the content where the sacrificial mods would be most applicable has not released yet, and therefore any argument related to the non-existence of current sentient enemies is moot, as it has been clearly implied and stated that excalibur Umbra, his Skiajati, and the paracesis are all gear meant for FUTURE content, so ofc they would not have as much use at current times if they're purpose is still far off in the future.

You're also still making an unfair comparison, Sacrificial pressure follows the same trend as all the other umbral and sacrificial mods, that being it is better than pressure point by a large margin, just like how umbral vitality is better than vitality, sacrificial steel is better than true steel, and so on. Again, it just so happens that pressure point has a PRIMED pressure point variant. In all likelyhood, if any of the other umbral or sacrificial mod originals were to get a primed version then they would most likely follow the same trend, a prime vitality would be more than umbral vitality, primed true steel would be better than sacrificial steel, etc etc.

ALSO, you have to remember that in a few years time after new war has come out, any newer player would hit the apostasy prologue, get umbra, get skiajati, get the umbral and sacrificial mods, get paracesis BP, and would then IMMEDIATELY be able to access the new War, unlike us who are just waiting for the content to drop. For those people the timing that these anti-sentient mods and weapons are introduced would line up perfectly with the content they're required in, the gear is only not applicable yet to us because OUR content currently is different from the INTENDED content later down the line.

Edited July 2, 2019 by birdobash

[Maka.Bones]

18 hours ago, birdobash said:

and therefore any argument related to the non-existence of current sentient enemies is moot,

I would argue the opposite. The content isn't existent, therefore defending it based on on inexistent & theoretical content is a moot argument. Make an argument once we have something on the table base arguments on. 

 

And even after the content is introduced, that still leaves out the rest of the game's enemy factions. 

 

But hey if I have to mostly fight sentients out my a$$ next patch, then sure I'll upgrade and use them... Maybe.... I still need a lot of Endo for other mods. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

22 hours ago, Midas said:

This and my math was logical... Your just trying to formulate an argument as to buff an sacrificial mod that does not need a buff. All will make sense when new war drops probs.

It seems you simply are arguing for pride at this moment and not wanting to be "wrong".

I even gave you a response to use gram then if you want a weapon that benefits more from primed pressure point otherwise run primed pressure point on paracesis with 1 sacrificial crit chance mod...

Nah, honestly I appreciate all your awesome feedback and information. It's just a lot of F-ing Endo, and idk where you guys are getting yours from but I'm not exactly dripping with it. You guys are also mentioning theoretical content we don't know anything about, so it doesn't make any sense to make an argument based on an unknown (unless you guys secretly work for DE, or know something I Don't)

So that's why It's not a priority upgrade atm, when I already have a maxed primed pressure point. 

Thank you though

 

P.S. I was using gram with my wisp, but replaced for paracesis because it looks better. 

Edit: I'm not saying you guys are flat out wrong. I'm saying you can't be making a bet on something that hasn't been delivered to us yet. We don't know anything about the new content we're expecting. It also doesn't change the fact that *as a set* they're suboptimal for anything outside of sentients--which is what my argument was based on. So you can't expect me to agree with you, on the basis of lack of information. 

Paracesis is a sentient slaying weapon, yeah sure I get that one; it explains the high crit and lack of status chance. But the sacrificial mods (or excal umbra) were never explained to have any grudge or purpose for specifically slaying sentients. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[birdobash]

1 hour ago, Maka.Bones said:

I would argue the opposite. The content isn't existent, therefore defending it based on on inexistent & theoretical content is a moot argument. Make an argument once we have something on the table base arguments on. 

 

And even after the content is introduced, that still leaves out the rest of the game's enemy factions. 

 

But hey if I have to mostly fight sentients out my a$$ next patch, then sure I'll upgrade and use them... Maybe.... I still need a lot of Endo for other mods. 

Just to give a real world example:

Is research/technology for better renewable energy sources useless right now because non-renewable energy works better and the Earth currently is still habitable? Hell no, it's still important and useful, and will be especially useful in the future because it is inevitable that it will be needed.

Just like this on a smaller scale, the sacrificial gear isn't useless because other stuff in the game is better at current time, because the content it'll be most useful in is also inevitable, unless DE somehow goes bankrupt in the next few months, and to mirror that, DE going bankrupt and paracesis and sacrificial mods therefore being useless would be akin to the Earth exploding, so therefore renewable energy doesn't matter anymore since the Earth went kablooey.

Edited July 3, 2019 by birdobash

[(XBOX)Q 2 K O]

On 2019-07-02 at 11:03 AM, Midas said:

This and my math was logical... Your just trying to formulate an argument as to buff an sacrificial mod that does not need a buff. All will make sense when new war drops probs.

It seems you simply are arguing for pride at this moment and not wanting to be "wrong".

I even gave you a response to use gram then if you want a weapon that benefits more from primed pressure point otherwise run primed pressure point on paracesis with 1 sacrificial crit chance mod...

This.

If the weapon has lower than 14ish critcal chance in my experience, running Sacrificial Steel for another multiplier on Blood Rush usually isn’t worth it.

Weapons with high CC benefit heavily from Sac Steel. Especially when it pushes you into a “2.03CC” or “4.07CC” barely making the cut for whatever level crit tier you are but now being able to hit constant level 2 or 4 crits. Its really “min-maxy” tbh, but I always look over multiple possible builds before I decide on one.  Just like seeing the possibilities.

I would still rather run Sac Steel on Gram in the case that I had a riven to replace PPP. Let’s say you had a really good roll like +CD +AS +DMG still gets you a ton of damage but also allows Gram to consistently red crit for another multiplier on top of those huge CO numbers. IN this situation choosing not to run Sac Steel would leave you at a 168%CC at 2.5 combo as opposed to being a a 308%CC with Sac Steel. In the situations it matters Sac Steel is huge.

Edited July 4, 2019 by (XB1)Q 2 K O

[Maka.Bones]

Again, maiming strike. 

With missions that have long delays, and with switching between melee and ranged, we're not always going to be able to maintain a 2.5x modifier. Not would we be able to reach it efficiently (not more efficiently than simply shooting). 

And again, for the Endo cost it's not on my list of priorities. No where near. Too much time+effort+resources spent, for the return on investment. 

Please stop trying to persuade me to agree with you, while ignoring the same points I've been making from the start (

1) other setups are easier to get, and more effective/efficient all around against general enemies. (Sorry but 2.5x isn't really efficient/practic in dynamic settings like open world, or when you have to compete with other players for kills, or when you're playing solo... Like I like to do)

2) they're locked behind major story progression (a lot of time spent up until that point, and time is an un-renewable resource atm).

3)they costs a lot of Endo to max. 4)They take up a lot of modding space (resources, like Endo). 

5) They're only overpowered with the one sword, against the one enemy faction. (Which only appears in one game mode or boss, in one specific node, in one single planet.... That's less than 1% of the game's activities)

 

And let's not ignore the simple fact that EVEN IF I actually agreed with you, and actually wanted to use them, I wouldn't be able to make better use of them than my current setup. I wouldn't be able to max them out either. Meanwhile I also I don't want to currently, because there are other *primed* mods that I would benefit from much more, which still need to be maxed. Maybe you guys appreciate them because you've run out of things to upgrade and you have a plethora of Endo, but not many of us have that alright? That's not a realistic expectation/comparison

 

Just understand where I'm coming from, and let's agree to disagree. If you like it, then good for you. I simply won't be using them, unless at least 25% of the game becomes sentient slaying, and I'm also dripping with Endo. 

 

Let's agree to disagree, alright? 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Maka.Bones