Looking For Serious Thoughts / Advice (Long OP)

[Max7238]

I wanna keep this as blunt as I can. I need to try and avoid rambling like I usually do, because none of you have the time or inclination to deal with that. Y'all don't know me, after all.

I played a little known game quite a few years ago: Rengoku, The Tower of Purgatory. There was a sequel that built on the gameplay and needlessly rebooted the story.
I did a playthrough for YouTube a bit more recently, mostly so I'd always have footage of it to go back to - obviously I'm nobody, and the videos don't get many views.
There are a few games I consider integral to my current state of self. Warframe, PSO2, Rengoku, ZoE, Tenchu, Ace Combat, Tekken - it's a somewhat sizable list.
Now... Because Rengoku is the least known of my list, and because it affected me so much, I've always looked for games like it or mechanics that it used. The fact is that they're hard to come by. I think the Dark Souls series was the closest I've gotten in a long time...

I'm sure there are closer relatives or substitutes, but that's not the point.
The point is this: I want to be part of the creation of a spiritual successor to the series.

That statement does a lot of different things to how you think about this post and how you think about me, I know. I know what a lot of those reactions are, too. In light of that, let me say this:
I'm technically a published author - but I guess it's in the way that some people are technically musicians. I wrote a fantasy novel and had to go through Amazon for physical copies. It's not what you know, but who, after all. Unfortunately for me, that's the limit of my artistic capabilities on my own. I can design characters, worlds, histories, cultures, and on and on and on. I'm an idea guy.
No one likes an idea guy. My capabilities mean I'm only suited to be a writer and creative director for a game, and those are jobs you aren't given until you prove yourself - by landing a project no one cares about and somehow making it a mild success. I went to college for criminal justice. That degree has been useless to me. I tried to play it safe and aim for a job I knew I'd understand, because of my history and family, but that was a mistake. If I could code, I could at least stumble through this on my own.

The advice I need is this, fellow Tenno: what can I do about this? Not that I haven't thought of innumerable courses of action; ultimately I know I'm doomed to fail unless I somehow make enough money doing something else to hire the help I need and get started. Slapping together a demo reel using Unreal 4, base assets, and some art from a friend isn't grounds for the kind of donations I would need to pay people what they deserve to make this thing. Do I go to a developer with the idea, only to be laughed out the door, if I'm allowed in at all? What makes me any different from all these other broke idea-guys? Does it matter that I'm an author and that I can do all the writing for the game on my own (I pretty much already have)?

I think the only advice I can't accept would be "give up," but I'm just annoyed at the idea that I'll have to continue to wait, years or decades, until this idea can finally take root. When it does, I want to be able to pay the people working on it well, like an artist deserves, and I want the game to come out completed. I want people to see this game of rock golems fighting inside an active volcano and be blown away, even if it's low-poly. And when they play the game, I want the few who played Rengoku to instantly recognize what the idea takes from the old PSP series. I want there to be a weapon called "Neverland" for the now-defunct studio that made Rengoku. I want the people who worked so hard on Rengoku to see the game and realize that their work wasn't for nothing.

I just can't do it alone. Video games are art, and I'm just a writer. I struggle to make a low-poly sword in Blender, and I wasted my college years not taking programming classes... I'm too poor to just go back to school and learn to code now. I've doomed myself to needing the help of many others, instead of just a musician and someone to help with modeling. Now I just work minimum wage in an archive and translate Japanese for an, uhh, adult game dev. I guess I just wanted to reach out because, even knowing I can't do this alone, I thought maybe someone out there might see this and have an idea I haven't thought of yet...


Regardless, thanks for your time. I don't show up on this forum often, and this is my first time in off-topic... Maybe I just needed to vent the thoughts.

[Matheoryon]

I think warframe is a good successor at least to Rengoku. I remember zone of the enders back about 2 decades ago when the first came out and I found it enthralling. I like alot of what is seen in phantasy star, but I really cant get into the japanese styling, mainly the over sexist based character customization for instance, and its a reason I have a hard time getting into eastern mmo's, though I do believe its purely optional in some. I remember ace combat quiet well 😁

So since we are basically in the same boat, might I suggest you look into a title called Eselmir and the 5 magical gifts? Its not space/scifi based, but it does alot right and I love it, even though its just point and click.  Swtor does alot in terms of an aim as a sort of spiritual direction, and I played that game for awhile because it did "high fantasy" and space just right for the longest time for me, but I have since left due to the games issues. I in part also dislike the overly "ghetto space industrialized" look, while orokin is more my idea of space tech.

Based off of academic chocies, it seems your trying to hard to make money, which is pretty typical lol, and leaves miserable souls.

"Works minimum wage... feels like a failure... doomed myself...needing help..." goodness now, trying to do to much to fast. Your not going to die next year, its all a long process.

Show me your art 

[Max7238]

I've got proof-of-concepts up on dA under Max7238, and my illustrator has most of the cover art for the novels on her page. I've only written the one novel, Beyond Pain, under V. Mantis because I don't want to associate a certain family member with my work. If you want me to show you my "art," there ya go... And you're right - I'll die somewhere about 2023, apparently. I have my reasons for being impatient.

[Fallen77]

I feel your pain bro... Though to have ideas bigger than the world.

I have to answers to this, as someone that tried hard and true to be a musician for many years, until medical problems shut me down :

First of all, you can do it. As me and many other fellow musicians used to say : 80% of your carreer is defined by what you do out of the studio. You can spend as much time as you want building the world, it won't matter if you don't give it ALL you got to finding/making a dev team and all that goes with it. This route is very exhausting, be aware. It is possible to make something of your ideas, but that implies MONTHS of sleepless nights and waiting under the rain in front office producers office. Been there, done that, it's all up to you if think you have the strenght to get through those hard first times.

 

Other possibility, try being a game master in a RPG game (D&D all that jazz). It may sound out of the topic, but hear me out !  It is THE MOST CATHARTIC creative process I've ever gone through. If you don't know the details, just keep those in mind :

You don't have to study rules at all, my campaign started with nothing but pen, paper and a few dices. No one, not even me, knew any rules, made it all on the fly.

You can take an existing world, but you can create your very own, weither it's fantasy, modern, scifi, anything you want. That's the part I think you might love. You can create your world, factions, gods, conflicts, characters, everything ! In the same way, game mechanics might be inspired from existing games, but you can come up with your own too !

It trully is one of the best ways to experience storytelling, your own story, in your own world, unravelling with your friends, it's undescribable. I'm an ex musician, stuck in an accounting job, and it's still the best thing I've ever done in my life !

It might look like a lot to take in / to prepare, don't worry. I've started with a few drunk friends that never played d&d, only a vague idea of the game's logic and as only plan, to leave them in a realistic skyrim. Now they're harrassing me every week to play the next episode of their adventures.

And it's getting more and more popular, you can easily find people to play nowadays.

It's not what you wanted to hear, but here's a way to scratch that creative itch you seem to have. You would not regret it, even if you still try to make your vgame.

 

So yeah, you can chase that dream of yours, you may become the next DESteve, but know how much sweat, rage, disappointments and sacrifices it's gonna take, because it is more than likely gonna take twice it.

And/or, look up D&D and other Role playing games. It is absolute heaven for an idea guy, once you find a decent group to play with.

[FlusteredFerret]

For what its worth, you don't necessarily need to go back to college to learn to code. You can self-teach yourself all sorts of stuff, through the magic of the internet (I'm currently learning guitar).

Did a bit of searching and it seems quite a few people have taught themselves game design, using something called Unity:

https://simpleprogrammer.com/started-game-development/

https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/wiki/getting_started#wiki_.22i.27m_not_making_excuses_as_a_delaying_tactic.2C_i_really_really_just_don.27t_know_where_to_start.21.22

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/332251/How_to_get_started_with_game_programming.php

It was the name that kept recurring in the searches I did anyway.

Given your financial limitations, it seems the only way to progress this is to do it yourself...which depending on how much time you can commit to it, could be a long hard slog. Sounds like you already have some experience with design software, so maybe you could pick up Unity?

The only other route would be if you could pitch your idea to a game studio...but they tend to like flashy presentations that are heavy on visuals and video. Would cost time & money to put together, with no guarantee of success.

 

[Max7238]

Turns out, I AM a DM in 5e. And you're right, it IS a great feeling. I'm using it to flesh out one of my book ideas that's further along in the pipeline, and my friends seem to enjoy it so far.

As for Unity, I'm aware, but I'm not willing to try and do this alone, at all. By myself, maybe one day the game would be playable and have the map finished, but it would be an awful shell of a thing compared to a team effort of even just a few people. Any dev worth their salt could do it, and fast. I've studied enough to know THAT, at least.

I don't plan on giving up, and I've certainly got the drive and tolerance for metaphysical pain to deal with it all... It's just frustrating to be stuck behind the starting line.

[Fallen77]

Well XD, at least we're on the same page !

But now, I'd advise looking to partner with actual devs, not learning to code, would take way too long to do anything I'm afraid.

What I would do then is harassing all the gaming dev studios around your area. But you'll probably really need to insist a lot and check back on them constantly before they even put your ideas on the "maybe" list. That said, it is doable I feel.

Or you can go down "being in debts" path and forming your own studio, but that path scares me to the bone... You're free to do as you please, you're warned...

[Pooroldude]

You could start coding a basic choose your own adventure web app or in unity and learn coding while crafting your perfect story.

Everything has to start somewhere.

[Rhekemi]

Hey, Max.

Needless to say we're in pretty similar boats.

I second Fallen77: a pen and paper game/RPG is a great place to start. That can then be translated to a physical table top game you can produce. There's a digital table top game service/platform (there may be others, too) called Tabletopia. It's available on Steam. It was brought to my attention by a longtime collaborator.

Creating an existing world (through pen and paper/RPG and table top) gives you a tangible product. You can take that and create a video game later. It'd give your programmers/development team something physical to work with.

Mike Pondsmith, the man behind of Cyberpunk 2077, created Cyberpunk in 1988. 31 years ago. He started with pen and paper RPGs.

Being able to create art/being a graphic designer and illustrator, or being able to program/code is a huge asset in bringing games to life, but those roles are co-dependent on a world and a great story. That requires a writer. Being an idea person, a writer, is no small thing. Writing and ideas are an important foundational element of everything from your favorite song, to television, to film, games, and comics. I know you know this. Just still feel it needs to be said.

Iron out your concept as its own original world (albeit inspired by and in homage to Rengoku). Work out the mechanics as they'd translate to a different medium. Hone the story. Create a blurb/logline/elevator pitch that shouldn't take you more than a minute (or three) to summarize the game concept when pitching it to prospective partners.

If you are still in contact with your illustrator, couldn't she help you create assets for the pen and paper version/the physical table top game (or the digital version)? Could you secure more illustrators willing to work on the passion project?

As for creating an actual video game down the road, are there any video game development conferences you can afford to attend? Research, plan ahead, and attend. Make genuine friends with hungry programmers who share your love for the game that's inspired your idea (or those who may not even know it). Chances are, you're likely to meet those who can code but don't have a concrete idea to work with yet. 

In my case, I know two (to three) RL collaborators, but we've yet to find the right idea, the time, and the resources to bring everything together and create a game (I'd be doing writing, ideas, mechanics). Whatever we decide on, the plan is to keep the team small (we can't afford to pay anyone and would be working for free), learn what we don't already, and start with a minimum viable product, then grow from there.