Was i in the wrong here for using Limbo?

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

On 2019-06-30 at 5:34 AM, Nordgaard said:

Just finished a Infested excavation, with 3 other randoms, 1 limbo (me) and 3 other frost players. i have a decent amount of range on my 4 ( the ability that i used) The other frost players also used their defensive abilities.

Was i in the wrong here by using my warframe like this? or was he in the wrong by threatening to report me for what i assumed was the normal way to play the game.   

I included the chat from the game in the images ( )

Dude was butthurt you made him a redundancy. That's all.

[bibmobello]

The fun is when you see limbo, gara, khora and frost on the same mission using their defensive powers together, they will scream at you because you are banishing their powers...

[ArcticHelix]

Limbo is a really good frame if you know how to play him correctly. Also for those who complain about limbo still how about you just yknow shut up? It was because of you that his stopping of ally bullets got removed which was fun when you wanted to meme with limbo and pretend to be dio now you can't because they removed it and nerfed the duration of his 2 all because of the constant whining.

Edited July 3, 2019 by TypeZeroTheNirvash

[Dthamilaye]

17 hours ago, Zelmen said:

Going to disagree with that comment. Frost is the best for static defense and Limbo banish spec is best for NPC defense. Defense has two objectives in order to complete the mission (or waves).

1) Don't let the target die
2) Defeat all incoming enemies

While Limbo is good at #1 it makes #2 very difficult in most cases. At higher level the whole popping bubble to do damage falls off. So now its just a defense skill. Too many people want to max out the range and freeze with stasis leading to enemies getting stuck far away from the target. This turns a 5 min mission into a 10+. 

Frost on the other hand can recast and increase the health of the bubble without having downtime. On top of that the bubble gets invulnerable after casting.

Frost is the best for static defense and Limbo banish spec is best for NPC defense. As someone who really does not like playing with Limbos I will admit in the right spec and mission they can be OP.

Limbo OP Moments:

1. Banish Rescue target
2. Banish Defense NPC

Ones I don't recommend due to reason above but will acknowledge is possible with the right spec:

1. Min range + max dur for excavation bubble, defense, and mobile defense missions so enemies get close enough to kill and not interfere with others
2. Survival / defection med range + max dur IF you have a party member that CAN dps through the bubble

 

For anyone who brings limbo on assassinate, exterminate... 99% of the time they are just leaching. Nothing in your kit makes killing easier or faster.

Hmm, good points. I agree on most, although I recommend Limbo on missions where you are not that keen on having them :).

First of all, I'm using around 95% range Limbo with long duration. I think that is probably bit too large for excavations, but on the other hand it can fit larger defence targets as well if needed. And it leaves room for the group in survivals. I personally hate long range limbos, when the enemies are stuck in different rooms on your floor, and possibly the floor above and below. It makes killing mobs fast impossible. 

It is true that Limbo will have downtime of about 1-2 seconds every minute or so. If you are defending something that can be destroyed in that downtime, having only Limbo might be problematic. Although having something that can help with the situation usually works fine, i.e. Rhino aoe stun just before refresh, mesa killing everything, etc.

On the other hand, Limbo bubble does not care how powerful the enemies are. Nothing can destroy the bubble by shooting, unlike Frost. Although I have not played frost that much anymore, so not sure how well he holds up in long missions. Limbo can just cast bubble once and then forget it for 30+ seconds, while he can concentrate on killing stuff, collecting things etc.

Excavations, defences, mobile defences work fine as well, specifically with lower range and long duration so that group members can easily go out of the bubble and shoot stuff if they want. Although I think the easiest method in excavation and mobile defence is to just sit in the bubble and shoot the mobs that get stuck in it.  Defence is bit different because the wave does not change until everything is killed, thus you cannot just sit in your bubble and must actively seek targets. Limbo can still keep the target safe though (outcluding bugs). 

For Infested survival, nothing is easier (and more boring) than sitting 2 hours in a bubble, waiting for mobs to get stuck on it and shooting them. Just needs a spot where spawning is fast and numerous.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Dthamilaye

[zumbledum]

its wrong to use limbos abilities or dodge if you are in a group.

[Zelmen]

4 hours ago, Dthamilaye said:

Although I think the easiest method in excavation and mobile defence is to just sit in the bubble and shoot the mobs that get stuck in it.

While I tend to sway people away from limbo on those missions, mainly because it tends to be trolly players on them. I still recognize this for players who know what they are doing. The only reason I don't recommending it because if the bubble is up weird things can happen trying to put power supplies in on excavation. On mobile defense there is trouble putting the key in while the bubble is up. Rather than fight with a limbo I just don't like seeing them on those missions.

Being what you have said, it sounds like you know how to play limbo unlike most.

[Infirito]

1. Limbo is perfect for Infested excavations, when I was farming Hieracon, people never complained about my big swirly bubble. Actually, 2 Limbo + 2 Nekros would be a perfect group for that.

2. People that threaten to report you are ALWAYS in the wrong. If there's something to report you for any adequate player would just do it without any fuss, but threats of any kind are unacceptable.

3. If you're not actively preventing a mission objective from being completed (Stasis Limbo on defence, Frosts spamming their tiny globes everywhere blocking all the fire lines, etc.) or directly messing with other people (Nova's portal, Loki's teleport) then you're not doing anything wrong, just /ignore those halfwits.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

On 2019-07-01 at 6:23 AM, Kyronz said:

only griefers use limbos in pugs.   you got to ruin play for 3 other teammates...surely that was not an accident.

limbo is a great frame, can solo and also rule in a pre-made  group, but no decent person brings one to a pug.

My very existence proves your claim false.  Limbo can absolutely work in pugs without hampering ally play.

In OP's case his allies were not aware of limbos interactions with the drones nor were aware that amps work against them in the rift.  That is on them not OP.

[SneakyErvin]

11 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

Frost one requires way more micro management to be effective. With limbo you can just pop a rift and stasis and you got easy 40 seconds of not having to do anything else.

Also frost bubbles can be annoying as well if you want to attack enemies that go through them as well.

No matter how you put it however Limbo in a infested excavation mission is just a way more effective choice always.

It comes down to how you play either. If you enjoy Frost the micro management (which isnt that much) isnt an issue because you are used to it. Also, in infested excav the globe would not be the main thing, so there shouldnt be any hindrance to begin with. What you do have with Frost in those excavs is a homemade target range and nothing else.

A properly played Frost will have absolutely no negative impact on your team, while a Limbo, even well played, will have a negative impact. It is just something that you cant get away from. I'd take Vauban over Limbo any day of the week in infested excavs.

[LIVIU1992]

 

On 2019-07-02 at 5:44 PM, Zelmen said:

Going to disagree with that comment. Frost is the best for static defense and Limbo banish spec is best for NPC defense. Defense has two objectives in order to complete the mission (or waves).

1) Don't let the target die
2) Defeat all incoming enemies

While Limbo is good at #1 it makes #2 very difficult in most cases. At higher level the whole popping bubble to do damage falls off. So now its just a defense skill. Too many people want to max out the range and freeze with stasis leading to enemies getting stuck far away from the target. This turns a 5 min mission into a 10+. 

Frost on the other hand can recast and increase the health of the bubble without having downtime. On top of that the bubble gets invulnerable after casting.

Frost is the best for static defense and Limbo banish spec is best for NPC defense. As someone who really does not like playing with Limbos I will admit in the right spec and mission they can be OP.

Limbo OP Moments:

1. Banish Rescue target
2. Banish Defense NPC

Ones I don't recommend due to reason above but will acknowledge is possible with the right spec:

1. Min range + max dur for excavation bubble, defense, and mobile defense missions so enemies get close enough to kill and not interfere with others
2. Survival / defection med range + max dur IF you have a party member that CAN dps through the bubble

 

For anyone who brings limbo on assassinate, exterminate... 99% of the time they are just leaching. Nothing in your kit makes killing easier or faster.

Limbo ca also be used on the plains while hunting the eidolons, for this you need a max duration+ range and place the cataclysm bubble around your teammates and eidolon lures in the (fairly generous)  time it takes the eidolon (any of them) to cast that energy spike (speaking from experience here).

Note: some of thei eidolons atack will ignore Limbo's rift no matter what, also operators and eidolons are imune to the rift's efect.

[SneakyErvin]

7 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

What is the negative effect? You can't shoot outside the rift? Big loss for having enemies stopped forever, free energy regen and being able to use your frame skills without any worry of anything hitting you. Sure frost can be decent at infested excavation and less of a hassle for teammates but limbo is still a way more effective frame and way better for higher duration excavations.

Not being able to shot into or out of cata is the negative effect. It is also a very pointless skill when it comes to infested excav because there is no ranged danger really. For other factional excavs he is the choice, but that is because he protects everything inside from bullets. So for those the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. But for infested there is really zero points to it, there just isnt anything that outweighs the drawbacks there.

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

Honestly i would take q limbo with range over a frost in this situation any day. 

You can't shoot through frost bubble, limbo's range is far more effective and defensive in a long term infestation excavation. 

[Lolacrayola]

Right, Frost is a god at excav arby vs all factions because:

1) Snow Globe has 4 seconds of invulnerability upon cast.

2)  Snow Globe breaks the connection to shield drones when enemies pass through it.

When placed inside Strangledome, enemies passing through Snow Globe will immediately get pulled up into the dome and hard CCed, irrespective of the presence of nearby shield drones. Provided nobody dies, you can effectively ignore shield drones even when they scale past level 1000 and have ridiculous hp.

When the level scaling goes crazy, invulnerability becomes the only reliable defence for extractors and the only reliable way for you to stay alive. This is the reason why the more consecutive digs you complete, the more time you end up spending in Operator void mode until eventually, you spend 99% of the time in Operator and switch only to your Warframe to do things like pick up a power cell. And its not safe to do that so you have to do your Warframe chores inside the invulnerability window provided by Snow Globe and Rolling Guard.

Even though this strategy is for very long excavation runs, it is also the fastest, safest way to do sub 1 hour excavations. If you have a team of Frosts and Khoras with tricked out Operators, everyone can solo hold extractors indefinitely and you can protect 3 of them at the same time.

Limbo is not as godly because Cataclysm interacts with shield drones and drop pick ups in frustrating ways. Your Operator cannot pick up power cells that are inside Cataclysm radius. Enemies shielded by an arbitration drone will not enter the rift, even if they are inside Cataclysm. Shield drones that enter Cataclysm radius can only be killed by your Operator or by shooting the drone from outside the Cataclysm.

If you use abilities like Cataclysm and Snow Globe, they needs to have the smallest possible radius in order to protect the objective and no more than that. If they are too big, they become an obstruction to your teammates by blocking their line of sight to enemies.

Limbo in general requires etiquette to play properly, without frustrating your teammates. Limbo is one of the few Warframes in the game with abilities that can take agency away from other players without their consent. In certain situations this can make Limbo very powerful, but if you want to be a team player you have to use that power responsibly - you need to be very deliberate about when you are going to take agency away from a teammate and be very clear about the reason you are doing it. If you push an enemy into the rift to prevent your teammate taking fatal damage you are a good Limbo. If you minimise the range of your Cataclysm to provide maximum protection to the objective while providing minimal disruption to your teammates, you are a good Limbo. If you are conscious at every moment of how your actions can help or harm your allies to help you make the right decisions consistently, then you are a great Limbo, a great team player and all round cool dude to play video games with.

If you approach Limbo like any other Warframe where you can get pretty far by mashing buttons, you are probably a bad Limbo.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Lolacrayola

[FoolsFolly]

10 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

What is the negative effect? You can't shoot outside the rift? Big loss for having enemies stopped forever, free energy regen and being able to use your frame skills without any worry of anything hitting you.

You know what stops enemies forever? Bullets.

You know what stops bullets? Limbo.

I can cast abilities and avoid danger just fine without a Limbo. But I can't shoot enemies with a Limbo. Limbo is a troll-frame, who serves absolutely no purpose beyond torturing other Tenno. We would all be better off without him.

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

8 minutes ago, FoolsFolly said:

You know what stops enemies forever? Bullets.

You know what stops bullets? Limbo.

I can cast abilities and avoid danger just fine without a Limbo. But I can't shoot enemies with a Limbo. Limbo is a troll-frame, who serves absolutely no purpose beyond torturing other Tenno. We would all be better off without him.

He doesn't stop bullets anymore. 

You are either in the rift with the enemies or out of the rift. On an excavation against anything other than corpus range Limbo is fine. 

You can go on the other side of a rift bubble and shoot none rift bound enemies through the bubble (which was possible even when he stopped bullets). 

Tbh though as long as a limbo player is in the party everyone should be able to rift roll. Because his 2 can get out of hand. 

[Dthamilaye]

5 hours ago, Lolacrayola said:

Right, Frost is a god at excav arby vs all factions because

2)  Snow Globe breaks the connection to shield drones when enemies pass through it.

When placed inside Strangledome, enemies passing through Snow Globe will immediately get pulled up into the dome and hard CCed, irrespective of the presence of nearby shield drones. Provided nobody dies, you can effectively ignore shield drones even when they scale past level 1000 and have ridiculous hp.

 

Limbo in general requires etiquette to play properly, without frustrating your teammates. Limbo is one of the few Warframes in the game with abilities that can take agency away from other players without their consent. In certain situations this can make Limbo very powerful, but if you want to be a team player you have to use that power responsibly - you need to be very deliberate about when you are going to take agency away from a teammate and be very clear about the reason you are doing it. If you push an enemy into the rift to prevent your teammate taking fatal damage you are a good Limbo. If you minimise the range of your Cataclysm to provide maximum protection to the objective while providing minimal disruption to your teammates, you are a good Limbo. If you are conscious at every moment of how your actions can help or harm your allies to help you make the right decisions consistently, then you are a great Limbo, a great team player and all round cool dude to play video games with.

If you approach Limbo like any other Warframe where you can get pretty far by mashing buttons, you are probably a bad Limbo.

Oh, I did not know that interaction, that frost globe breaks connection to shield drones. Very neat combo with Khora. Yes, arbitrations might be a place where I wouldn't suggest taking a Limbo right away. Also the damage from the Arbitration mobs could be high enough that something shoots the excavation drill during the time when Limbo refreshes the bubble. The highest level and longest missions usually need special considerations.

Also, I agree with your last paragraphs about how to play Limbo. If you just go in mashing buttons, you are going to be a real nuisance to your team mates. I have not had problems adding energy to excavators in a bubble, but you do have to know about things like "do not place bubble before mobile defence target has been enabled" etc. 

What I need to learn myself is to learn to use Banish better, to keep targets safe. I use bubble too much, when banish would probably  be enough. 

[(PSN)Puckish_Rogue125]

This is a problem with this community. Right here. The fact that this is a discussion. You queue with randoms you live with and play along side them or you abandon. I dont actually care what mission type this is. If you can join with randoms and you do you live with that. "I would say no""i dont think you could be reported""did I do something wrong" video games people. Find a healthy balance outside of them.