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TehGrief

Oberon - Mandatory Changes for Renewal

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Posted (edited)

A few months back I had made a similar post simply titled Oberon - Changes to Renewal. In this post I had loosely listed my own opinion and the opinions of others regarding feedback for his [3] Renewal ability. 

Since that post, I have spent a large portion of time (and forma) trying different builds with Oberon to maximize his effectiveness and efficiency with Renewal. Alongside perfecting the build, I have attempted various mission types to gather data regarding obvious issues with the ability - I hope to summarize them here.


Confusing ability mechanics

To start I want to point out how misleading both the wiki and the in-game description of the ability are:

Quote
  • (from in-game description) Healing waves of energy flow outward from Oberon to his allies, regenerating health over time.

 

  • (from wiki) Oberon channels a field around him with radius of 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 meters. Ally players entering the field will receive a buff which will regenerate 15 / 20 / 25 / 40 health every second, while allied summoned units affected will regenerate 5 / 6.7 / 8.3 / 13.3 health every second (1/3rd the normal rate), for as long as Renewal remains active, regardless of range. Fully healed allies are additionally cleared of all negative status effects.

Both of these misleading descriptions make it seem as if Renewal is consistently generating healing from Oberon himself, however, in testing this proves to simply NOT be true; as it currently is, Renewal creates a field of healing at the point of activation that does NOT travel with him.

Furthermore, even in the official Warframe Profile video for Oberon the ability is presented in an incredibly misleading way; never once mentioning that the effect remains at the point of activation.

Alongside these mechanics being confusing and not player-friendly, this ability is further paired with an arguably worse issue... It is quite literally invisible...

 

Ability animations (or rather, lack thereof)

Upon activating Renewal, you will (barely) see a wave travelling out from the point of activation. Once the wave has reached its full radius, it will disappear and you will be left with an "assumed" field of healing. With no way to visually prompt players that there is even an ability taking place in the area you're presented with two possible outcomes:

1. Stumble around blindly - running around in circles until you notice the Renewal buff across the top of your screen. 

OR

2. Ignore the buff completely - who has time to go on a scavenger hunt when there are mandatory objectives to meet in a mission?

The only visual cue that we currently have is a very faint green outline on allies currently affected by the Renewal buff. This glowing outline is faint enough that at certain distances it cannot be seen. In such a fast-paced, high-mobility game like Warframe, it's completely unacceptable that this has been left this long.

To me, this seems like a mechanic that was forgotten when the original change from a duration-based projectile to an range-based AoE ability occurred (see original Oberon Profile video); as a projectile with infinite range you never needed to worry about allies NOT getting the buff - thus, the visual cue was almost unnecessary at that time.

I have recorded some footage of myself using Oberon's Renewal to show these in better detail (see below):

Spoiler

Oberon - Renewal buff cannot be seen

As you can see in the video, there are some major issues with the ability:

  • Once activated, you cannot see where the field of healing is located - allies that were outside of activation range will have to stumble around to find the Renewal field. 
  • It is difficult (if not near impossible) to see the active buff on allies.

Additionally, I believe that the Phoenix Renewal augment mod suffers from a similar lack of animations. When a player dies under the effect of Renewal there is a brief message that simply just says "Phoenix Renewal" and shows the 90 second debuff (inability to revive again for the duration) in the top corner of the screen.

 

Poor ability interactions

Changing Renewal from a duration-based projectile to a range-based AoE skill could have been seen as an improvement, had it been done properly. Unfortunately, the ability suffers from more than just zero visual representation and misleading mechanics.

As stated earlier, Renewal creates a radial field of healing; allies stepping into the field of healing gain the Renewal buff which restores health per second. However, your allies cannot gain the buff twice from the same cast of Renewal (see below):

Spoiler

Losing the buff

If you somehow manage to get knocked off the map, fall into a pit, or accidentally step into water the buff is removed. Additionally, if you step inside either a Nullifier or Nul Scrambus energy field, the buff is removed.

However, even if the Oberon is unaffected by these misadventures and/or abilities and continues to channel Renewal, allies that have lost the buff CANNOT return to the currently active field of healing and regain the buff. This is foolish. The Oberon is then forced to deactivate and reactive renewal.

 

Incredibly Draining

Renewal is a channeled ability that, by default, drains 2 energy/s to remain active. For each player who falls below their maximum health Renewal will drain an additional 3 energy/s (i.e; if all four players are below maximum life, Renewal will drain an additional 12 energy/s). Furthermore, each non-player ally (i.e; companions, syndicate operatives, specters, and summoned abilities such as Nekros's Shadows) that falls below maximum life will drain a further 1 energy/s. Initiating the ability also has a base cost of 25 energy - to top it all off.

Spoiler

[Base cost = 25 energy] + ([Base Drain = 2 Energy/s] + [Drain per player = 3 energy/s*P] + [Drain per non-player ally = 1 energy/s*A]) = Way too much energy for what the ability does.

The cost of the ability is overwhelming at times and requires reconsideration.

 

 

So... what can be done? 

Proposed Changes

  1. Change Renewal to function as an aura that centers on Oberon himself, rather than a radial field that remains at the point of activation.
  2. Give a better/more obvious visual cue to both Renewal and Phoenix Renewal.
  3. Allow allies to regain the buff from the same instance after having the buff removed/lost.
  4. Adjust the energy drain to be more realistic. 
Spoiler

1. Renewal Aura

Renewal in its current state is too restrictive and lends more to being forgotten than used efficiently. Renewal needs to be projected as an aura from Oberon, similar to how Equinox radiates Mend around her, allowing her to position herself in the most optimal locations to assist her allies. Once the allies have entered the aura and received the buff, they can leave the aura radius and maintain the buff. This will allow for Oberon to activate the ability and then move towards allies who need it.

2. Visual Animations

Using Equinox and Mend again as perfect examples; Equinox's auras each have unique visual effects that allow you to effectively determine the maximum range and number of allies affected. Oberon's Renewal aura should have some sort of animation that determines its range. Allies under the effect of Renewal should have a more obvious visual effect, even if it is just brighter. Phoenix Renewal should trigger a different colour to represent that it is on cool-down.

3. Mechanic Changes

There is no reason why allies shouldn't be able to receive the buff again from the same instance after losing it. This needs to be changed so that Oberon can move quickly to allies who have been nullified and grant them the buff again. 

4. Drain

With the current line up of available frames, I believe that only one of the drains should apply, either:

  • Increase the base drain, but remove any further drain applied from each ally below maximum health.

OR

  • Remove the base drain, but maintain the drain from each ally below maximum health.

With the influx of threads speaking negatively about the interaction between Renewal and Nekros's Shadows, I believe that the first option would be the most appropriate.

 

TLDR;

> Change Renewal to function as an aura centered on Oberon himself.

> Provide better visual representation of both allies under the effect of the buff and the radius of Renewal.

> Allow Renewal to be reapplied from the same instance to allies who have lost the buff by falling off the map/into water or being nullified.

> Adjust the energy drain of Renewal to be more in-line with current abilities. 

Edited by TehGrief
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Posted (edited)

The entitlement in that tittle astounds me😮

 

That aside, I agree with your feedback

Edited by (PS4)LoisGordils
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1 hour ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

The entitlement in that title astounds me.

Passionate, perhaps. I would not go as far to say it is entitled. 

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Posted (edited)

I think Renewal needs a redo, honestly, it's archaic in so many ways I'm surprised it wasn't changed differently during Oberon's rework. I completely agree with the OP's suggestions (and, more specifically, I think the drain per second should be static regardless of how many allies are affected), and in addition, I'd suggest changing the heal to be based off of a percentage of the recipient's missing health, rather than some flat amount: not only would this likely make Renewal more likely to help at times when strong healing is needed (its healing is currently fairly weak all around), it'd also allow work much better on tank frames, including Oberon himself if he decides to make himself more durable.

Also, while we're at it, could we please change the name of Oberon's armor buff? Currently the name is "Iron Renewal", which is just about the absolute worst one could choose for a nature/fae-themed frame (iron as a metal is notoriously antithetical to both nature and fairies). Something as simple as "Steadfast Renewal" or the like would convey the same notion while fitting much better with his current mix of themes.

Edited by Teridax68
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That's a lot of text to argue that Oberon needs to be cheaper and have a visual effect on the initial cast radius to let people know where it is, and that we should be able to refresh the buff from there.

I mean, sure, having the visual on the initial cast radius is fine, I've wanted that for a while. And I don't see a problem with players regaining the buff (as long as it's not the burst-heal as well, because that would be very over-powered... literally just walking into an area, jumping down a pit and repeating in order to consistently burst-heal 200 health or more... silly) by re-entering that location if they have it removed by nullifier or pit-respawn.

I'm not sure why you need, or what really engenders the desire for making it cheaper though...

With a decent hybrid of Duration and Efficiency (ignoring Fleeting Expertise because it's literally self-countering in this situation), Renewal is brought down to precisely 0.56 energy per second at base, with an additional 0.84 for actively healing himself or an ally, and then 0.56 for actively healing a summoned unit.

Through the power of Maths, Oberon's drain for himself, three allies and four companions even when actively healing all of them is a total of 7.28 energy. Which seems steep until you realise that with a Primed Flow, Oberon can sustain that Drain for 102 seconds without gaining energy back, or 1 minute and 40 seconds. This time extends for every ally that reaches full health and stops being actively healed, including yourself.

So, yes, Nekros summoning 7 Shadows to add an extra 3.92 per second is a downer, brings you up to 11.2 (or shortens your time down to 1 minute and 6 seconds), but if it's just four of you and your pets/sentinels? Oberon can literally self-sustain on Hunter Adrenaline alone for the entire mission. Unless, and this is important, enemies are not high enough level to get through his Shields and damage his Health to return that energy. But that's another situation entirely.

Hell, even with an Energy Leech walking into the room, that only adds 5 energy per second, that's still something he can sustain for around 1 minute, which is more than long enough to kill that enemy and move on.

Basically what I'm saying is that, for the drain it does have, and how it can fluctuate, Oberon's Renewal is actually incredibly cheap already for what it does.

And... if you've been experimenting with builds for it, you should already know that.

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2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

So, yes, Nekros summoning 7 Shadows to add an extra 3.92 per second is a downer, brings you up to 11.2 (or shortens your time down to 1 minute and 6 seconds), but if it's just four of you and your pets/sentinels? Oberon can literally self-sustain on Hunter Adrenaline alone for the entire mission. Unless, and this is important, enemies are not high enough level to get through his Shields and damage his Health to return that energy. But that's another situation entirely.

Quoted for truth and this is coming from an Oberon main. The drain from other players is quite manageable, especially with a low Shields + Rage / Hunter Adrenaline build.

Renewal honestly needs only two things:

1. A visual indicator where the initial cast takes place to make it easier for players to acquire the buff or reacquire it if they lose it somehow (falling off the map, Nullifiers, etc.)

2. For Nekros Shadows to ignore Renewal, because that should NEVER have been a thing.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Oberon's Renewal is actually incredibly cheap already for what it does

Wisp says hello.

Also, you're kind of ignoring that Oberon (who not everyone uses P. Flow on) has other abilities, that also use up Energy
(especially if you don't run Fleeting Expertise), e.g. the Armor strip combo of 2 + 4 has a 150 Energy cost at base.

Edited by NinjaZeku
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11 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Wisp says hello.

Also, you're kind of ignoring that Oberon (who not everyone uses P. Flow on) has other abilities, that also use up Energy
(especially if you don't run Fleeting Expertise), e.g. the Armor strip combo of 2 + 4 has a 150 Energy cost at base.

Hey, I'm not saying that other frames don't do it too. And Wisp does heal quite well. But... as a contrast; does Wisp add armour, or does her heal last for as long as she has energy at infinite range from her? Does it extend the bleed-out timer, or provide a burst of healing on cast? Even with a long duration, you give your allies about a minute or so of healing and you heal at less than half the rate Oberon can do for the same power strength. So that's kind of how it balances out. Limited time duration without refresh, allies have to return to the spawning location to refresh (or you have to recast), lower rate of healing and a maximum health buff instead of an armour buff, plus none of Wisp's abilities grant immunity to Status. Different functions for different frames, even if the base aspect of them is similar.

Also, seriously, why would you try to get a frame with an important-to-the-kit Drain mechanic to use Fleeting Expertise? Yes there are other abilities, but that's kind of what Renewal's relatively inexpensive nature is for; you heal constantly for cheap because it allows you to use his other abilities via the Hunter Adrenaline mechanic. Fleeting is not helpful, it has literally only half the efficiency return it should, because while the base cost goes down, so does the Duration. If used on its own, the efficiency of a Drain ability literally doesn't change and you have better results just by putting on a Streamline and Continuity. If you were to drop out literally another mod on the build for a Fleeting, instead of putting in a Duration mod or Streamline, you take off so much efficiency from his Renewal that it directly counters the reduced cost of his other casts. Plus you reduce the duration on the important duration-based ability Hallowed Ground, and cause yourself to recast that more often for an almost net-neutral return on the mod anyway.

Yes, you have the armour strip combo, but that literally doesn't become necessary until you're taking on content that can't be dealt with by the weapons or abilities without that kind of spam. At that point you genuinely should be specifically building for that, namely taking a team with Corrosive Projection and using Viral and Heat on your weapons to kill enemies faster, so you still don't need the Fleeting even then.

Honestly, my friend, the fact that Oberon can heal so relatively fast compared to the damage that most enemies can actually deal to him when he's immune to Status is the whole reason he can exploit Hunter Adrenaline (or Rage) to regain so much energy to keep going.

Mod specifically to make that drain the most efficient it can be using high Duration and a little Efficiency, the returns with higher Strength are high enough that suddenly the higher cost for all the other abilities doesn't even matter. It is not in any way difficult (unless you're on really low level) to regain your energy with Oberon as fast as, if not faster than, you use it... as long as there are enemies to stand near. Specific caveat there.

I just know that, while there are tweaks I would make to the ability, the efficiency of it isn't really one of them. It can be lowered so drastically far, maintained while nobody needs healing as practically non-existent, and everywhere, everywhere outside of the most extreme cases of Drain this ability is just so cheap to use already.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I mean, sure, having the visual on the initial cast radius is fine, I've wanted that for a while. And I don't see a problem with players regaining the buff (as long as it's not the burst-heal as well, because that would be very over-powered... literally just walking into an area, jumping down a pit and repeating in order to consistently burst-heal 200 health or more... silly) by re-entering that location if they have it removed by nullifier or pit-respawn.

In the current state of Renewal they should just get rid of the initial healing entirely, honestly, Renewal isn't reliable enough to "burst heal". Renewal functions better as a heal-over-time that also provides status cures. If this rework was to happen, I believe this would have to be something they would have to ensure would not occur. 

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

With a decent hybrid of Duration and Efficiency (ignoring Fleeting Expertise because it's literally self-countering in this situation), Renewal is brought down to precisely 0.56 energy per second at base, with an additional 0.84 for actively healing himself or an ally, and then 0.56 for actively healing a summoned unit.

Basically what I'm saying is that, for the drain it does have, and how it can fluctuate, Oberon's Renewal is actually incredibly cheap already for what it does.

And... if you've been experimenting with builds for it, you should already know that.

I have settled on a build that can sustain the ability just fine, thank you for your concern. However, in my opinion Oberon takes far to many forma just to sustain his ability and enable you to cast everything else; for a lot of the testing I had been doing, I often felt that I would have to choose between either sustaining Renewal or casting other abilities, just as @NinjaZeku has brought up. 

20 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Wisp does heal quite well. But... as a contrast; does Wisp add armour, or does her heal last for as long as she has energy at infinite range from her? Does it extend the bleed-out timer, or provide a burst of healing on cast? Even with a long duration, you give your allies about a minute or so of healing and you heal at less than half the rate Oberon can do for the same power strength. So that's kind of how it balances out. Limited time duration without refresh, allies have to return to the spawning location to refresh (or you have to recast), lower rate of healing and a maximum health buff instead of an armour buff, plus none of Wisp's abilities grant immunity to Status. Different functions for different frames, even if the base aspect of them is similar.

 In case you weren't aware, Wisp does provide a flat health bonus - and quite a large one at that... Her buff can be sustained for more than a minute. She does NOT have to channel this ability and it only costs her 25 energy to cast. Sure she doesn't provide any armour, but it is far easier for her to maintain recasting this ability than it is for Oberon.

Spoiler

sRIXziK.jpg

 

Edited by TehGrief

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1 minute ago, TehGrief said:

In case you weren't aware, Wisp does provide a flat health bonus - and quite a large one at that... Her buff can be sustained for more than a minute. She does NOT have to channel this ability and it only costs her 25 energy to cast. Sure she doesn't provide any armour, but it is far easier for her to maintain recasting this ability than it is for Oberon

Then buff the healing. But that still won't mean it needs less energy to maintain it. The most recent rework to Oberon did actually go through several iterations of the Drain cost, with caveats being made so that it didn't cost nearly as much as it did on release.

While some buffs would be nice, and I do agree with some of them you've already listed, and I've even contributed exactly those buffs to other threads since his rework, I just can't see DE ever actually reducing the cost of this cast at the same time as getting it to do more. They have the balance on it, not us.

Also, I didn't ever say that Wisp doesn't supply a flat health increase, what I said was that it doesn't actually supply flat health on acquiring it. You get the max increased by up to 942, which is fun, but the frame doesn't instantly gain 942 actual health points, those have to be filled by the heal over time. Which, again, not as good as dear Oberon's because hers is base 30, his is base 40, equal percentage increases from modding will scale his healing up beyond what Wisp's can do every time.

And more than that, this wasn't really a discussion on Wisp, now, was it? We're talking about a buff to Oberon.

His cost for his healing is absolutely fine.

But.

Getting it to do what it does better for that cost? That's something I can see happening.

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All I gotta say is phoenix renewal debuff timer is a joke.

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14 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

the frame doesn't instantly gain 942 actual health points, those have to be filled by the heal over time

Nah, it works similar to Chroma's Heat Elemental Ward - bam, instant Health boost.

14 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

not as good as dear Oberon's because hers is base 30, his is base 40,
equal percentage increases from modding will scale his healing up beyond what Wisp's can do every time

Except maybe you won't have the same Mods, because not least, Oberon benefits from Range
(woo Overextended for HG / Reckoning mass damage / CC / debuffing) quite a bit, while Wisp is more about Duration I find.

MInd, I'm not actually saying that what (Iron) Renewal gives is too little, necessarily,
but I am very much on board with the point that it wouldn't be OP to let us more easily (re)apply it to allies
(as well as of course finally removing the frustrating "anti-synergy" nonsense between Broberon and Bonedaddy).

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33 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

MInd, I'm not actually saying that what (Iron) Renewal gives is too little, necessarily,
but I am very much on board with the point that it wouldn't be OP to let us more easily (re)apply it to allies
(as well as of course finally removing the frustrating "anti-synergy" nonsense between Broberon and Bonedaddy).

Which has been said before, by multiple people, including me on threads going as far back as 2017. So, that was never in question here.

My entire point on the matter was that the energy cost is actually okay, and that DE are unlikely to change it even if they do give the other improvements.

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Il y a 23 heures, Birdframe_Prime a dit :

They have the balance on it, not us.

Looking at the ability to "kill an entire room" for 25 energy and "just fly forward" for 25 energy, I doubt they have any balance.

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1 hour ago, zhellon said:

Looking at the ability to "kill an entire room" for 25 energy and "just fly forward" for 25 energy, I doubt they have any balance.

Looking at the entirely different roles those two frames have, and also that one has only had one non-significant rework in its five year lifespan that removed some of the flaws and added virtually nothing of substance on a frame that was already objectively below-par, while the other has had several reworks in only a few years and has had their kit entirely geared around that function of wiping out a room when the spawns are so heavily saturated that it allows it.

You could just as easily say 'the ability to "buff damage on your weapons and allow damage to interact with your 1" for 75 energy and "turn off all hitscan and projectile damage entirely" for 75 energy'. Those two functions do not do remotely the same kind of thing, and each is genuinely powerful in its own way.

I didn't say 'The ability is perfectly balanced by DE against all other frames with similar functions and all other costs for the same function', I said that they 'have the balance on it' which is to say that we aren't the ones that get to set what is and isn't balanced for that frame in that respect.

Every change we propose has to take into account what changes and what choices DE has already made. If the proposed change is 'reducing the cost while making the ability do more', then based on every change they've done in the past, that's not going to happen.

If the proposed change is 'make the ability do more situationally based on quality of life improvements, but for the same cost as now', however, that they have done.

Look at an ability like Blazing Chakram as a direct example. They didn't raise or lower the cost, but instead they changed a basic 'mark for life steal on death' function to a 'mark for bonus damage, and a guaranteed Health Orb drop, and a 30% Energy Orb drop'. It does more for the same cost, and also returns energy for the cost, feeding Nezha as a reward for actively using the ability.

In the same way; buff the functions of Renewal if they aren't enough. Get it to do more. But if you're getting it to do more, don't expect it to cost less. 

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il y a 35 minutes, Birdframe_Prime a dit :

Look at an ability like Blazing Chakram as a direct example. They didn't raise or lower the cost, but instead they changed a basic 'mark for life steal on death' function to a 'mark for bonus damage, and a guaranteed Health Orb drop, and a 30% Energy Orb drop'. It does more for the same cost, and also returns energy for the cost, feeding Nezha as a reward for actively using the ability.

That is, in fact, because of the balls of energy and health, this ability has become free. Yes, this is not a change in energy consumption, but the ability to restore the property of energy. In principle, if this property gets Oberon, then there is no problem. Yes have ability to high consumption, but Hey, I can restore this energy. Now this is not and the players do not quite understand how they should support this ability with a large number of allies. 

Hmm, you set a good example. It looks like a whole mechanic for Oberon.

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1 hour ago, zhellon said:

It looks like a whole mechanic for Oberon.

Why not, instead of Renewal having this, hitting enemies with Smite when they're on Hallowed Ground marks them for a high chance of Orb drops (with a normal chance of Orbs from everything hit by the seeker orbs from it)? You mark one enemy for guaranteed returns (that are on top of their regular chance to drop an orb, so you could get two) and then have a Chakram-style mark on everything else hit by the ability.

He gains this function in his kit, it gives him the energy he wants/needs, but further hammers in that the HG is his primer and you need to use it for everything ^^

I'm a great believer in the idea that every Warframe could and would be improved by having one situational way to increase the drops of Energy Orbs, especially those frames that have a Drain function.

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il y a 1 minute, Birdframe_Prime a dit :

I'm a great believer in the idea that every Warframe could and would be improved by having one situational way to increase the drops of Energy Orbs, especially those frames that have a Drain function.

Yes you can and without energy orbs. Just restoring energy. Although I am confused by the energy situation itself. I understand timers, but I don't understand when my effectiveness in combat depends on the chance of getting a particular item. I just don't really understand how I should build tactics, especially in a situation where I can get oneshot.

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1 minute ago, zhellon said:

Yes you can and without energy orbs. Just restoring energy.

Except you're forgetting something; Energy Restore functions are blocked by Drains ^^

It's why one of my personal, super-secret-and-not-to-be-given-to-DEScott ideas is to switch Trinity's 2 to a radial enemy debuff that marks all enemies it hits for energy orb drop on death. It does something to deliberately debuff the enemy advantageously for your team, but also potentially restore even more energy for the entire team (not just those that don't have a Drain) by physical drops.

4 minutes ago, zhellon said:

but I don't understand when my effectiveness in combat depends on the chance of getting a particular item

Something I realised a long time ago is energy is just another Ammo source. You have to run around with a gun and pick up ammo for it, and you have to run around with abilities and pick up your ammo for your abilities. The ammo pool is a little worse than on most guns, though, due to the effects being potentially far greater ^^

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il y a 1 minute, Birdframe_Prime a dit :

Something I realised a long time ago is energy is just another Ammo source. You have to run around with a gun and pick up ammo for it, and you have to run around with abilities and pick up your ammo for your abilities. The ammo pool is a little worse than on most guns, though, due to the effects being potentially far greater ^^

Can I get the Energy Mutation for the frame? And sometimes so many useless ammo lying around, especially when you use a frame gun or melee. xD

No, they just build the gameplay around abilities and weapons. Some frames can play without abilities, some not, because of poor survival characteristics. And then the mod that converts damage to HP in energy. Very strange situation with it thin frames. I understand if there were timers and how in addition, you could use the ability during its recharge for energy, but... I do not know. The system itself seems strange.

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1 minute ago, zhellon said:

The system itself seems strange.

Makes perfect sense to me...

1 minute ago, zhellon said:

Can I get the Energy Mutation for the frame?

You literally mean Equilibrium we've had it all along ^^ Remember, the ammo mutation doesn't convert unused Health or Energy orbs to Ammo, so it wouldn't work on Ammo to Energy.

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il y a 1 minute, Birdframe_Prime a dit :

You literally mean Equilibrium we've had it all along ^^ Remember, the ammo mutation doesn't convert unused Health or Energy orbs to Ammo, so it wouldn't work on Ammo to Energy.

That's understandable. It's just that we're more likely to convert orbs of energy into health than the other way around. Health orbs drop very rarely, if you do not use a guard or a special ability.

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