How would you react to the end of power creep?

[ReaverKane]

2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

just like everybody else. we should just ignore the people who have experience in the industry and listen to random people on the internet when it comes to dealing with game stuff. 

Yeah, i mean, one thing is giving our opinion, and sure, in my opinion there's a lot that could be improved, another thing is claim that a game that's one of the most actively played games on steam is ran by people who have absolutely no idea what they're doing.
Sure, sometimes they goof, and they goof good, like Nightwave and arbitrations. But that's a poor implementation of what's otherwise a good idea. 
Claiming they don't know how to run the game in general? That's a big claim, especially, when i'm willing to bet that the people who REALLY dislike those "press 4 to win" warframes, to the point they think they need to be removed, are only a very small, but very vocal minority.

[Zeclem]

9 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

Yeah, i mean, one thing is giving our opinion, and sure, in my opinion there's a lot that could be improved, another thing is claim that a game that's one of the most actively played games on steam is ran by people who have absolutely no idea what they're doing.
Sure, sometimes they goof, and they goof good, like Nightwave and arbitrations. But that's a poor implementation of what's otherwise a good idea. 
Claiming they don't know how to run the game in general? That's a big claim, especially, when i'm willing to bet that the people who REALLY dislike those "press 4 to win" warframes, to the point they think they need to be removed, are only a very small, but very vocal minority.

they are the minority that plays nothing but starchart and everything is op according to them. there simply isnt any frames that are mindless ult spammers anymore cept mesa, which needs energy management which isnt that difficult, but its still some degree of interaction. at least such is my opinion.

and yeah, you are definitely right. game devs DO know what they are doing, and they do think of the health of the game as well. its their livelihood after all.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Zeclem

[ReaverKane]

2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

they are the minority that plays nothing but starchart and everything is op. there simply isnt any frames that are mindless ult spammers anymore cept mesa, which needs energy management which isnt that difficult, but its still some degree of interaction. 

That's also true, after lvl 70 you can't just go by spamming 4 with Sarin to get kills. And Equinox, unless it's really low levels and you get kills with the slash proc, you need to know how to prime Maim to get damage (and survive while you're stacking damage). Even mesa needs some level of interaction (even if it's just aim in the general direction of the enemies).

[TARINunit9]

7 hours ago, Zeclem said:

no its not, because you dont face tusk and terra enemies at level 90 in the first place. their lower levels being same as sortie levels is not power creep when you never face them at the same level in the first place.

You actually CAN face Tusk and Terra enemies in sorties, complete with the appropriate level 90

[Zeclem]

11 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

You actually CAN face Tusk and Terra enemies in sorties, complete with the appropriate level 90

which is such a huge rarity that it can be easily listed off as an isolated/unintended case. like i dont remember such a case ever happening to me and if it did, the difficulty increase was not noticable so i dont remember it.

@moostar95 thats a very narrow view of thinking. saryn is far from the only use-worthy frame. and support frames do see use. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Zeclem

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

On 2019-07-01 at 8:45 PM, TARINunit9 said:

Power Creep that are Rubico and Galatine Primes (and the sidegrade Gram Prime)

Funny, the Gram prime is the highest DPS melee right now. Quite a bit higher than galatine prime or even zaws.

Also my favorite weapons aren't all that infamously meta-breaking but were pretty subtle weapons that fortunately or unfortunately never got the attention from the community they deserved.

The predefined meta is boring. New and unique weapons are more of what this game needs. As great as the arca is it gets so boring to use.

Edited July 6, 2019 by (XB1)Almighty Deity

[Zeclem]

On 2019-07-06 at 1:51 PM, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

Funny, the Gram prime is the highest DPS melee right now. Quite a bit higher than galatine prime or even zaws.

Also my favorite weapons aren't all that infamously meta-breaking but were pretty subtle weapons that fortunately or unfortunately never got the attention from the community they deserved.

The predefined meta is boring. New and unique weapons are more of what this game needs. As great as the arca is it gets so boring to use.

with what build does gram prime has a better dps? cus it sure as S#&$ isnt better for proccing status with how slow it attacks. 

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

7 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

with what build does gram prime has a better dps? cus it sure as S#&$ isnt better for proccing status with how slow it attacks. 

Pretty common status/crit hybrid build. It doesn't need to proc status constantly, weeping wounds and drifting contact is amazing plus it's better in both stats than the Galatine.

 

[Zeclem]

Just now, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

Pretty common status/crit hybrid build. It doesn't need to proc status constantly, weeping wounds and drifting contact is amazing plus it's better in both stats than the Galatine.

 

that picture doesnt really prove much of anything, especially when you consider that galatine prime will always have better results from condition overload simply because how faster it is. and on top of that it also has a much better reach. 

gram prime is the pinnacle of overrated weaponry. 

[bibmobello]

35 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

that picture doesnt really prove much of anything, especially when you consider that galatine prime will always have better results from condition overload simply because how faster it is. and on top of that it also has a much better reach. 

 gram prime is the pinnacle of overrated weaponry. 

It deals almost twice the damage and more status procs of the galatine prime without even considering the riven disposition...

Edited July 7, 2019 by bibmobello

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

37 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

that picture doesnt really prove much of anything, especially when you consider that galatine prime will always have better results from condition overload simply because how faster it is. and on top of that it also has a much better reach. 

gram prime is the pinnacle of overrated weaponry. 

You ask for the build and are now shifting the goalposts. Oh I'm not going to hand you some complicated DPS spreadsheet and nerd out on the complex mathematics of broken bull on a 3x combo counter with a hybrid build. I'm telling you to try it before you deny it. I will however correct your assertions.

Both crit and status are better by 12%, damage is 10% better, range is identical, and yeah no the DPS is MUCH higher. In your opinion the Gram prime is overrated. The objective reality is that the gram is much better than galatine. It simply scales better, and even running 2 mods for speed it still beats a galatine. The CO works in the same attack that procs status. With weeping wounds it doesn't take long to outright destroy any hope for the galatine.

Edited July 7, 2019 by (XB1)Almighty Deity

[bibmobello]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

You ask for the build and are now shifting the goalposts. Oh I'm not going to hand you some complicated DPS spreadsheet and nerd out on the complex mathematics of broken bull on a 3x combo counter with a hybrid build. I'm telling you to try it before you deny it. I will however correct your assertions.

Both crit and status are better by 12%, damage is 10% better, range is identical, and yeah no the DPS is MUCH higher. In your opinion the Gram prime is overrated. The objective reality is that the gram is much better than galatine. It simply scales better, and even running 2 mods for speed it still beats a galatine. The CO works in the same attack that procs status. With weeping wounds it doesn't take long to outright destroy any hope for the galatine.

i have a riven + speed,+damage, i will give weeping wounds a try.

Edited July 7, 2019 by bibmobello

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

3 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

i have a riven + speed,+damage, i will give weeping wounds a try.

It's really good for a hybrid. With my Valk I built it a bit differently but it's essentially that. My riven effectively is an upgraded drifting contact with channel damage so it replaced that, I put on prime reach and critical damage instead of the speed mods. Unusable outside of Warcry but it's devastating with an eternal war 338str build. ~120% swing speed is amazing!

[bad4youLT]

Badly , power creep is that drives me to continue playing , with out it I dont see a reason to play .

[bibmobello]

Just now, bad4youLT said:

Badly , power creep is that drives me to continue playing , with out it I dont see a reason to play .

In this game when you think something is power creep and you are the best, you will find everytime someone else with a weird unused weapon or frame humiliating you.

[Zeclem]

17 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

It deals almost twice the damage and more status procs of the galatine prime without even considering the riven disposition...

its also almost twice as slow and much shorter reach as well so yeah. and rivens are not a point discussed in balance. 

15 minutes ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

You ask for the build and are now shifting the goalposts. Oh I'm not going to hand you some complicated DPS spreadsheet and nerd out on the complex mathematics of broken bull on a 3x combo counter with a hybrid build. I'm telling you to try it before you deny it. I will however correct your assertions.

so you are telling me you wont bring proof to your claims? cool then. and i did try it. its a good weapon, just not better than galatine prime like you claim (and refuse to provide actual proof)

 

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

its also almost twice as slow and much shorter reach as well so yeah. and rivens are not a point discussed in balance. 

so you are telling me you wont bring proof to your claims? cool then. and i did try it. its a good weapon, just not better than galatine prime like you claim (and refuse to provide actual proof)

 

What proof do you want? I'm on Xbox. Can't exactly record it and send it. "Almost twice as slow"? I call bull. .8 vs 1 x1.25 at max. 20% slower base. Math works itself out to be 45% slower. Not almost twice. 1.8 to 2.25. Do you need proof?

again it doesn't take a mathematician to tell you the higher stats far outweigh that when you proc more hits and hit more at a higher critical chance, critical damage, and damage. All heavy blade swords have identical range. Even then they can only hit 5 targets. Whether or not you'll listen, I don't really care at this point. 3 or 4 others here know better. I'll give you the math all the same

32% base cc gives 52.8 cc per combo counter giving 348.5 crit chance at 3x. 3x would effectively be red hits with 50% hitting x4 reds. Channelling would make it an 80% x4 x2.1 multiplier.

20% base gives 33% per combo meaning at 3x you would only have a 218% crit chance with a x2 multiplier. This would be 238% while channeling. This effectively gives you only 60% of the critical damage. Weeping wounds scales similarly. These combined mean that you'll have a 100% chance to do 60% more damage at a 3x multiplier of total damage vs. ~60% for the galatine.

This also hasn't considered the further gap from the gladiator mod set bonus, arcanes, or steel charge, which would also benefit the Gram's much higher raw damage over the galatine.

The verdict: BTFO. It's the strongest heavy blade in terms of both per-hit and total DPS.

I'll ask again do you need proof or is mathematics not sufficient?

The hilarious bit is that build had no riven nor did I suggest needing one.

Edited July 7, 2019 by (XB1)Almighty Deity
Mathematics

[Zeclem]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

What proof do you want? I'm on Xbox. Can't exactly record it and send it. "Almost twice as slow"? I call bull. .8 vs 1 x1.25 at max. 20% slower base. Math works itself out to be 45% slower. Not almost twice. 1.8 to 2.25. Do you need proof?

if gram primes base damage of 180 is "nearly twice" compared to galatines 165, then i can easily claim galatine prime is twice quicker.

3 hours ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

again it doesn't take a mathematician to tell you the higher stats far outweigh that when you proc more hits and hit more at a higher critical chance, critical damage, and damage. All heavy blade swords have identical range. Even then they can only hit 5 targets. Whether or not you'll listen, I don't really care at this point. 3 or 4 others here know better. I'll give you the math all the same

you are massively overstating the difference in their damage. the difference in the attack speed is simply more than the damage difference. and no, not every heavy blade has the same reach. 

and you very much care, thats why you wrote this complete nonsense of a mathematical equation that completely ignores how condition overload works:

3 hours ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

32% base cc gives 52.8 cc per combo counter giving 348.5 crit chance at 3x. 3x would effectively be red hits with 50% hitting x4 reds. Channelling would make it an 80% x4 x2.1 multiplier.

20% base gives 33% per combo meaning at 3x you would only have a 218% crit chance with a x2 multiplier. This would be 238% while channeling. This effectively gives you only 60% of the critical damage. Weeping wounds scales similarly. These combined mean that you'll have a 100% chance to do 60% more damage at a 3x multiplier of total damage vs. ~60% for the galatine.

This also hasn't considered the further gap from the gladiator mod set bonus, arcanes, or steel charge, which would also benefit the Gram's much higher raw damage over the galatine.

The verdict: BTFO. It's the strongest heavy blade in terms of both per-hit and total DPS.

yeah no. theres nothing here that accounts for attack speed, for starters.

3 hours ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

I'll ask again do you need proof or is mathematics not sufficient?

you are not providing any actual math here though. you completely ignored attack speed. ofc galatine prime would be weaker if you do that lol.

3 hours ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

The hilarious bit is that build had no riven nor did I suggest needing one.

even more hilarious part was i didnt even say that to you. go ahead and check who it was meant for so you wont be in more hilarious situations for yourself. 

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

4 hours ago, Zeclem said:

if gram primes base damage of 180 is "nearly twice" compared to galatines 165, then i can easily claim galatine prime is twice quicker.

I said it's total output would be 2x higher, then explained that with the math.

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you are massively overstating the difference in their damage. the difference in the attack speed is simply more than the damage difference.

'"Almost twice as slow"? I call bull. .8 vs 1 x1.25 at max. 20% slower base. Math works itself out to be 45% slower. Not almost twice. 1.8 to 2.25. Do you need proof?". That's my exact quote where I talked about it.

actual modded slowness is still only 20% slower, not 45%. Again 20% is a drop in the bucket when you'd need 20 procs to hope for a 2nd status, and only 2/3 will. Do me a favor and run the math before you deny mine.

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and no, not every heavy blade has the same reach. 

Yes, all swords have identical ranges. Scindo, zenistar, and dokrahm have less because they're axes.

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and you very much care, thats why you wrote this complete nonsense of a mathematical equation that completely ignores how condition overload works:

"Weeping wounds scales similarly. These combined mean that you'll have a 100% chance to do 60% more damage at a 3x multiplier of total damage vs. ~60% for the galatine." that's my exact quote.

did you even read? You're thinking you'll get 3 status procs right? Slash will be 95% of them, so no, subsequent hits with the gram prime should do much more damage since only 75% of it's damage, meaning there's a 1/4 you proc puncture or impact. But I totally ignored it right?

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yeah no. theres nothing here that accounts for attack speed, for starters.

.'"Almost twice as slow"? I call bull. .8 vs 1 x1.25 at max. 20% slower base. Math works itself out to be 45% slower. Not almost twice. 1.8 to 2.25. Do you need proof?" 

Yes it has been accounted for. 20% slower, not 45% so thanks, the math is improved!

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you are not providing any actual math here though. you completely ignored attack speed. ofc galatine prime would be weaker if you do that lol.

I ignored speed because it really doesn't help the galatine and is literally it's only advantage. Everything outshines it by 60% which lead to insane hits.

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even more hilarious part was i didnt even say that to you. go ahead and check who it was meant for so you wont be in more hilarious situations for yourself. 

 

9 hours ago, Zeclem said:

its also almost twice as slow and much shorter reach as well so yeah. and rivens are not a point discussed in balance. 

so you are telling me you wont bring proof to your claims? cool then. and i did try it. its a good weapon, just not better than galatine prime like you claim (and refuse to provide actual proof)

 

Didn't say what now? Oh right that I refuse to provide actual evidence... Right...You did say that to me, so what "hilarious situation" did I get myself in?

Edited July 7, 2019 by (XB1)Almighty Deity